Katzenjammer
Member
Sorry if this has been answered here before, but does anyone know roughly how long this game has been in development at this point?
Legend of Zelda Wii U Gameplay Demo
- Thread starter zakislam
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Refreshment.01
Member
i think these type of complaints are excesive, having a big overworld with little things to do is not a flaw.
Everything piece of the environment doesn't need to have mechanical function, sometimes fleshing out the sense of exploration is enough.
People
Fantastic example.
Don't like when people just jump into certain trains of thought withouth giving much consideration to what they are supporting, the "empty overworld" has become another token Zelda cliche, like certain other one im really disgusted just to even mention.
Wrong. Shadow of the Colossus had the most fun open worlds I've ever explored in a game and the rewards were almost solely intangible. Seeing the handcrafted nooks and crannies was a reward in itself.
Around three years.
Agent Gibbs
Member
I still find it laughable that in a clearly carefully edited video people think that barren world will be representative of the finished product.
I'd put money on the fact they dialed down enemies aside from a very specific encounter to demo the horse/bow combat, they probably stripped out a lot of potential elements so they could only show exactly what they wanted
That said i'm not sure what people want? a settlement every say 200 paces? enemies every say 100 paces this is a medieval world the population was not what it is today, you could go miles without a settlement, days even just look at historical documents or every damn film set in that period....to make a "realistic" zelda game it would need to be fairly barren for periods and by looking at that careful constructed demo they could be out in a more "barren" area of that giant bit of the map we saw
I know this is hard but people need to stop jumping to conclusions based n tiny gameplay demos, hell its better than some games which are "demoed" which are just FMV
I'd put money on the fact they dialed down enemies aside from a very specific encounter to demo the horse/bow combat, they probably stripped out a lot of potential elements so they could only show exactly what they wanted
That said i'm not sure what people want? a settlement every say 200 paces? enemies every say 100 paces this is a medieval world the population was not what it is today, you could go miles without a settlement, days even just look at historical documents or every damn film set in that period....to make a "realistic" zelda game it would need to be fairly barren for periods and by looking at that careful constructed demo they could be out in a more "barren" area of that giant bit of the map we saw
I know this is hard but people need to stop jumping to conclusions based n tiny gameplay demos, hell its better than some games which are "demoed" which are just FMV
Scoot McNairy
Member
Probably the most barren open world I've ever seen in a next gen game. I get the look they are going for, but we are living in a post GTA V on PS4 world. Things have changed.
The problem isn't with this Zelda game, which, when viewed from inside a bubble, looks fun and neat and all that. The problem is that the rest of the gaming world has changed and my expectations are higher.
This is now the new normal and when I see an open world full of the same identical tree pasted over a field again and again and have it presented to me as if it is something impressive and new and to get excited about, I just think about this:
The problem isn't with this Zelda game, which, when viewed from inside a bubble, looks fun and neat and all that. The problem is that the rest of the gaming world has changed and my expectations are higher.
This is now the new normal and when I see an open world full of the same identical tree pasted over a field again and again and have it presented to me as if it is something impressive and new and to get excited about, I just think about this:
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
I don't get it. You're being put in a huge, beautiful world in the ZELDA universe. You can go do whatever. I could ride Epona day and night and enjoy it because I'm immersed. That alone is amazing. I've wanted to truly explore an area in the Zelda universe since I was a child and it's happening. Not like the previous games that felt relatively restrained. Even WW felt like a big box with plots of land. This looks like an actual, natural, alive piece of the Zelda universe. The first demo even hinted at random events and happenings. You people assuming the world will be barren, boring, and contrived are missing the point.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm going to have to go with the latter two points of view from MCN and BigEvilTurtle Kinsei, though I do think your opinion is the smarter when talking the larger market.
I have no issue with a pretty vista or set-piece being the reward for exploration. I take in the sights on pretty much every game I play. I'll just wander to random places and take in the view. Was actually doing that right now in Mass Effect. Checking out some skyboxes on a mountain, on a random planet. Not even a well designed planet, but hell of a vista.
Mechanically though, your opinion is the correct. There should be some tangible reason for exploring the environment. Specialized enemy encounters could be a good one. I'd love to see the Zelda series pick up a few things from Dragon's Dogma. Were beginning to head that way with a lot of the traversal design of Skyward Sword. I'd love to see similar design imperatives in the overworld. For that E3 trailer to be a relatively random occurrence in the sizable overworld.
Mechanically you are correct. It's one of the most glaring issues I see in 3D Zeldas. A lackluster overworld that works more as a very elaborate hub fitting for picturesque scenes more than being their own... well developed worlds.
Regardless I am fucking hyped. This will be the title that gets me to buy a WiiU. Or maybe borrow my brothers. Still haven't decided. Bad Nintendo fan I am this gen. Only have a 2DS.
Probably the most barren open world I've ever seen in a next gen game. I get the look they are going for, but we are living in a post GTA V on PS4 world. Things have changed.
The problem isn't with this Zelda game, which, when viewed from inside a bubble, looks fun and neat and all that. The problem is that the rest of the gaming world has changed and my expectations are higher.
This is now the new normal and when I see an open world full of the same identical tree pasted over a field again and again and have it presented to me as if it is something impressive and new and to get excited about, I just think about this:
These all look barren.
I think Zelda is just not for your tastes. I think this reveal is absolutely gorgeous.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
You're drunk.
GTAV PS4 is freaking incredible looking. But it's going for such a drastically different style Scoot McNairy that directly comparing the two is like comparing apples to kidney mash. GTAV PS4 has moments that almost look real. Zelda never even tries to look real. From the lighting to the shading to the texturing and modeling. Completely disparate art styles.
Comparing the two directly is... well... kind of dumb. Sorry for that Scoot. Sincerely, but it is true.
Scoot McNairy
Member
I want this to be true, trust me. But I just don't see it. Maybe 'actual, natural and alive' meant something different in 1995, but right now, it's not this:
peanutbutterlatte
Member
He's right though, it's comparing jam and gravy man.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
I want this to be true, trust me. But I just don't see it. Maybe 'actual, natural and alive' meant something different in 1995, but right now, it's not this:
Choosing a low-quality, specific shot of an unfinished game's footage is the worst way to argue a point.
Counterpoint:
I could roam an area like this all day, personally. But to each their own. Getting from dungeon to dungeon is going to be fucking wonderful.
Look how beautiful it is. And Nintendo is renowned for their graphical "upgrades" so it'll look even better at retail.
I'm not drunk. I just said what I thought. I didn't even make a comparison. Thanks for your input.
EDIT: Just realised you were replying to someone else, sorry.
Refreshment.01
Member
Yes, the man is drunk with bias.
Regarding GTA V x Zelda U, realism has nothing to do with it. We can compare them in terms of detail density. Zelda U doesn't come close because of technological and development limitations.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Drunk was just a fun jab.
I said Scoots comparison was dumb for a bunch of very real reasons. I can see where he's coming from on the technical aspects. I am part graphics whore myself. I just thought the comparison was missing some realities.
Listen I felt bad enough when I typed it. I don't even like indirectly confronting someone. But his post could have started a completely useless argument ignoring some truths. And I've already been the cause of a useless dumb argument today.
Image 1: Wow look at the modern car and buildings. We haven't gotten a look at any towns but are you expecting that in Zelda?Probably the most barren open world I've ever seen in a next gen game. I get the look they are going for, but we are living in a post GTA V on PS4 world. Things have changed.
The problem isn't with this Zelda game, which, when viewed from inside a bubble, looks fun and neat and all that. The problem is that the rest of the gaming world has changed and my expectations are higher.
This is now the new normal and when I see an open world full of the same identical tree pasted over a field again and again and have it presented to me as if it is something impressive and new and to get excited about, I just think about this:
Image 2: Wow an open field with nothing in it. Not even a tree even Zelda U has trees.
Image 3: Wow an animal parcially obscured by plants. There are certanly no animals in Zelda U and certanly no plants they could be obscured by. /sarcasm
Image 4: Wow a hedge. Wow. I'm not sure a get the point of this image. It's just a hedge.
Well, your post is a bit too much but I agree.
I just don't see how those pictures show a "dense and alive" world. It just shows beautiful details, which doesn't mean anything, really.
Orniletter
Banned
It is incredibly unfair to compare....literally the most expensive game ever made in it´s finished form to a game thats a year away from completion and only shown in low-quality off screen footage.
TheDarkTriforce
Banned
Awesome
I really wonder if the developers wanted to create this view in memorys on this old artwork 
Edit: I can't wait to visit this place at 19.00 o'clock in the evening
tkscz
Member
Probably the most barren open world I've ever seen in a next gen game. I get the look they are going for, but we are living in a post GTA V on PS4 world. Things have changed.
The problem isn't with this Zelda game, which, when viewed from inside a bubble, looks fun and neat and all that. The problem is that the rest of the gaming world has changed and my expectations are higher.
This is now the new normal and when I see an open world full of the same identical tree pasted over a field again and again and have it presented to me as if it is something impressive and new and to get excited about, I just think about this:
I seriously don't understand this. They showed almost nothing of the full world. For crying out loud, there were jump skips. We don't know what populates the world. Not to mention it's still unfinished.
Yeah. I thought it up in my head and found it to funny not to post.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
There's something almost warmly nostalgic about people bitching over pre-release Zelda footage.
Good times.
Good times.
Yeah the same - and that the rewards for finding/exploring these optional secrets gives something truly rewarding, like fierce deity link or something fans can freak out about.
I want this to be true, trust me. But I just don't see it. Maybe 'actual, natural and alive' meant something different in 1995, but right now, it's not this:
What are you trying to say with a lowres, blurry, offscreen image grabbed from youtube?
You need to try harder than that.
Scoot McNairy
Member
Where? I've looked and there's nothing obvious - they may only become obvious when you actively take a screenshot and try to find them. And when you're playing it in the game, no, there aren't 'repeating patterns' in that stuff. They appear to have designed foliage in a way that avoids a quick copy and paste texture job, and added shaders and physics to the whole lot whilst making the next gen port.
This isn't a question of photorealism, either. You can go for a certain cartoony artstyle and fill it with insane amounts of different textures. You can see that one small cross section of a single road in GTA (about 10 metres by 10 meters or so) has about 50 different types of ground textures, not including debris, and I can't help but think that attention to detail - that desire for excellence - that's what I paid for, and paid for again a second time. So yes, when I see that certain rock faces in the new Zelda are just completely flat with a texture stretched over it, and fuck all else, I think I'm within my rights to call that pretty sloppy - and the game world barren.
There was a moment in the Zelda video where they showed a field with plain grass, no rocks or flowers or plants or bushes or animals or debris or bugs, and with trees each spaced out about 20 metres away from each other. You know what Miyamoto-san called it, you know what he said it was?
A "densely wooded area".
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
THE GAME IS UNFINISHED. Do you not understand? Those details are probably the LAST part of development.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I just snorted milk out my nose hahaha
Thunder Monkey
Banned
No you're right the drunk part was for you. If there's anything that GTAV PS4 isn't, it's barren.
The rest was for Scoot.
Yes, there are factors other than artistic that will make perceivable differences.
But I think those should be expected. When it comes to modern Nintendo, going in expecting the cutting edge in technical excellence is folly. Go into them looking for premiere usage of that caliber of hardware. Usually backed by an art style that would be far from conventional on other platforms AAA level titles.
I mean even directly comparing software on similar class hardware is tricky. Dragon's Dogma and RDR would be the closest. Dragon's Dogma on art style (though still completely different) and RDR on pace. Zelda has by far the most grass I've seen in an open world title on a similar class of hardware. Bar none. Rendering res will definitely be higher than at least one of the prior two titles. I expect it to have a better, more consistent framerate than DD in particular, but probably also RDR. Draw distance... hard to say. Lighting I'm likely to give to RDR. But again, need to see more Zelda.
WiiU doesn't have the hardware to compete directly with even a last gen port on PS4. They added too much. But I think it compares favorably (from what we've seen at least) with open world titles on similar class hardware.
POWERSPHERE
Member
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
tkscz
Member
I want this to be true, trust me. But I just don't see it. Maybe 'actual, natural and alive' meant something different in 1995, but right now, it's not this:
At this point, you are jumping to no evidence conclusions. The game is unfinished, won't be done until sometime next year. They aren't even showing a fraction of the game, did you see that map? There were jump skips throughout the entire showing, time of day suddenly change, they jumped one cliff and then they are on a completely different cliff. What little they did show did have life in it, that you are ignoring for some reason. I don't get how you or anyone is jumping to the conclusion that the world will be empty from this short showing of the game.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Hedging your bets, soldier?Probably the most barren open world I've ever seen in a next gen game. I get the look they are going for, but we are living in a post GTA V on PS4 world. Things have changed.
The problem isn't with this Zelda game, which, when viewed from inside a bubble, looks fun and neat and all that. The problem is that the rest of the gaming world has changed and my expectations are higher.
This is now the new normal and when I see an open world full of the same identical tree pasted over a field again and again and have it presented to me as if it is something impressive and new and to get excited about, I just think about this:
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Yeah... sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain.Fair enough, and I was aware, I have been reading all 62 pages of this thread
edit: blu knows. He remembers the WiiU Spec threads.
Hmm I think he's saying Zelda needs more hookers.
TheDarkTriforce
Banned
I really hope that Nintendo release a The Legend of Zelda: Limited Edition for the Nintendo Wii U with a Special 'Link' - Amiibo
To me those pictures represent what's wrong with graphics today. Too much detail distracts me from the gameplay.
At least Zelda U demo was decent at conveying information. One technique I like is having a bunch of generic looking rocks so that your attention is instantly drawn to the one stone thing that looks distinct, is memorable and has a purpose. Other devs want to make an atmosperic world as possible, so that filtering the fluff from the substance is just draining my energy for no reason.
Also the uneveness of the terrain is confusing: can Link actually walk up that hill? it looks kind of steep. But I know he can, because Nintendo placed a tall tower there, indicating that indeed this is a place I should try to reach.
So it's fine in terms of graphical detail. But Crysis, Witcher 3, GTA 5 etc. can go die in a fire. Very unappealing visuals, Captain Toad is the ultimate art style and use of geometry for me. Trine is also a mess, constant halt of gameplay so that I have to analyze the environment, while in DKC Tropical Freeze the clarity allows me to maintain momentum.
At least Zelda U demo was decent at conveying information. One technique I like is having a bunch of generic looking rocks so that your attention is instantly drawn to the one stone thing that looks distinct, is memorable and has a purpose. Other devs want to make an atmosperic world as possible, so that filtering the fluff from the substance is just draining my energy for no reason.
Also the uneveness of the terrain is confusing: can Link actually walk up that hill? it looks kind of steep. But I know he can, because Nintendo placed a tall tower there, indicating that indeed this is a place I should try to reach.
So it's fine in terms of graphical detail. But Crysis, Witcher 3, GTA 5 etc. can go die in a fire. Very unappealing visuals, Captain Toad is the ultimate art style and use of geometry for me. Trine is also a mess, constant halt of gameplay so that I have to analyze the environment, while in DKC Tropical Freeze the clarity allows me to maintain momentum.
Katzenjammer
Member
In that case the basic game should more or less be in place now. We haven't even seen the main innovation points of this game. For example, ALBW was really boring and bland looking in screenshots, but none of that mattered when playing the game and seeing all the creative uses of the wall-merging. Nintendo has some of the best game designers in the world, and I'm very excited to see what they will do next, but until we get more info it's unfair to write off the game from what we've seen.
As for the barren look that some are complaining about: this game is set in Hyrule, not in the real world. If the designers want to evoke a certain feeling, I trust that they will be able to do that. Even if it doesn't mimic the nature of the real world. But even then, I don't think that what they've shown is nearly representative of the final game.
"Ulukai!"I want this to be true, trust me. But I just don't see it. Maybe 'actual, natural and alive' meant something different in 1995, but right now, it's not this:
POWERSPHERE
Member
My worry is it living up to my adult reality and memories of my childhood imagination. I want a sense of adventure, the unknown. Pretty amped.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Not really the standard a fantasy game / game not about dicking around but exploring a fantasy world should adhere to. I appreciate the amount of realism in GTAV and would obviously agree it's the best sandbox-city-game out there, but even the unrealistic looking empty and stiff worlds of Morrowind, Shadow of the Colossus and to some extent Journey were more interesting to explore and discover. Being able to look like a hedge in real life does not make Los Santos an interesting world much like Quantic Dreams games' real looking actors make the story less shit.
Orniletter
Banned
I´m so incredibly sad that Zelda U will be released tomorrow and won´t get an extra year of development.
This series used to strive for excellence but now, under Aonuma,....oh no.....
Trust me, I´m a foliage expert !
This series used to strive for excellence but now, under Aonuma,....oh no.....
Trust me, I´m a foliage expert !
Thunder Monkey
Banned
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
Hahahaha.
MandrakeUK
Member
So far shaping up to be everything I expected.
I simply can not wait to explore this new world they have created, I pre ordered it since it was available to pre order and it will remain as such.
I simply can not wait to explore this new world they have created, I pre ordered it since it was available to pre order and it will remain as such.
fabricated backlash
Member
It really wasn't the size of TPs overworld that made it boring, it was it's failure to include into the flow of the game.
From the very first showing this new game was promoted as being designed about exploration, as in: Making the world itself a key factor rather than to have it as a space that connects points of interest, with no meaning to the actual game.
And even then you could legitimately argue that size and scope of a game world can be a key part in a games structure and atmosphere.
Also, an adventure becomes meaningless when you're spoonfed the highlights. Adventure needs downtime as much as it does high octane action and danger. To find the right balance between this is key, and it seems like with this game they're aiming to make the downtime engaging and build up to high points.
Again, the size of an overworld is meaningless. It's how it's implemented that counts, and on that end neither you or I can make any definitive judgement at this point other than flimsy speculation.
Some things I want to point out..
When the bow was used, the item icon was not the bow itself, but just the arrow.
And, in the top right part of the icon, theres the number of arrows you have (starting with 100).
But in the lower left, there is an icon and an impossible to read text.
Do we know what it means/says?
When the bow was used, the item icon was not the bow itself, but just the arrow.
And, in the top right part of the icon, theres the number of arrows you have (starting with 100).
But in the lower left, there is an icon and an impossible to read text.
Do we know what it means/says?
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