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[zeldablue]

I'd like to see those small enemy fortesses from TWW return. Like riding by a shady structure and getting pelted by a billion arrows. This game will shine for having the unexpected happen. The ghost ship in TWW was so cool. Having something f***ed up pop up at night in the distance like that again would be so cool. Like someone tells you a scary folktale and you end up seeing if its true. Sure enough theres something terrifying in the woods or something.

That's the feeling I've been getting. It seems like Zelda is moving away from what I enjoy about the series.

Maybe wait for the story trailer first. Theres no incentive for you yet.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I don't want open world. I thought that was clear from my posts? Hell, I think Link Between Worlds was too open.



Dungeons, mini-games, towns, optional bosses. Stuff like that. Xenoblade was nice because although there were some huge area's like Gaur Plains, you were never far from something to do.

These things are a staple in Zelda why wouldnt it have it? Zelda WW and TP both cover these easily.

Isn't that essentially what was shown and said in the E3 reveal? Miniboss shows up randomly out of the blue in the overworld. Que chase and battle.

Anyways, they already said that they will be treating the environment like a puzzle of sorts. And how to reach an area(with multiple solutions). Im guessing maybe something like ALBW. Where you have to use several items and ablities to actually get to and enter an area. It wont be just riding a horse to the front door and thats it. I excpect cliffs to traverse, secret entrances to find, some platforming, switches, enemeis to defeat, etc.



E3 Reveal showed several farmers tending livestock in the overworld, Maybe some huts or small houses scattered around too I think.

That was shown at e3 but i felt it was more like an event.. like the whirlwind bloopers or whatever in WW. They were out there but you could avoid them I think.

 

[Slime]

I mean, this is basically what Zelda 1 was...

The main difference being the challenge. The big gameplay hook for Zelda 1 for me was always trying to do as much exploration as possible while trying to survive. 3D Zelda is just so easy, exploring is more chill than it is a challenge in itself.

I hope they populate the world with interesting hooks, but it's so hard to think of any rewards besides Rupees you quickly run out of a use for.

 

[kittens]

I'm still not sure "3D Zelda with a bigger overworld" is going to add much to the experience. It sounds great, it looks great, but how much is really going to change? Twilight Princess had a big overworld too, but still felt fundamentally like a retread of Ocarina of Time, and a lot of the exploration resulted in pointless rewards and a sense of emptiness. Unless the challenge is increased, or some new system for progression is implemented, or exploration is rewarded with something other than Rupees, I really wonder if it's going to feel right.

I don't want to sound cynical about this, because this is actually the most hopeful I've been about Zelda in years and a return to something LoZ-inspired is what I've been clamoring for for over a decade. I just hope Aonuma is thinking about these things, ensuring we have compelling things to do besides finding dungeons.

It's not the size of the overworld that's the key difference (though that's definitely part of it), it's the fact that it's open and non-linear. Every past 3D Zelda has had environments / progression that feels extremely artificial. OOT, MM, TP, and SS had a central hub with other environments branching off of it, and then WW had a giant ocean that was open but had huge sections that were inaccessible until you progressed to a certain part in the story. Zelda for Wii U looks to be totally (and finally!) ditching those designs out the window, instead offering a truly open, non-linear world.

That's why people are so excited. That doesn't address your concerns really, though. As far emptiness goes, I keep thinking of Skyrim. I found exploration in Skyrim to be a total joy, and that was largely due to two things: 1. the world was gorgeous and 2. there were interesting random enemy encounters. Zelda looks like it has the first one nailed down, and hopefully the second one, too.

If they can make the world generally fun to just exist in, then I'll consider it a success. They can have secrets be fairly few and far between, which will make finding them feel even more special and rewarding. One of my favorite ever secrets in a Zelda game is the invisibility cape in ALLTP. It was totally optional and awesome. I can't wait to explore the world of the new game and find something of that stature.

I dunno if this really addresses your points all that well, but I'm not worried.

That's the feeling I've been getting. It seems like Zelda is moving away from what I enjoy about the series.

And then there's people like me who've been wanting the series to return to the openness of the first game for thirty years, haha. You can sit this one out if you need to.

 

[Small Mailman]

Going to bed. Good talk everyone. Glad this game is shaking everyone up

 

[majik13]

These things are a staple in Zelda why wouldnt it have it? Zelda WW and TP both cover these easily.

That was shown at e3 but i felt it was more like an event.. like the whirlwind bloopers or whatever in WW. They were out there but you could avoid them I think.

Im just going off what I remeber him saying, that even in a peaceful setting like this an enemey can appear, or something like that. Made it sound like it would be unscripted. I mean Link was just sitting there, he didnt trigger anything, and it was said to all be in game. But yeah we really dont know. But was implied it could happen at anytime and what seems like a challenge to avoid, at least in this instance.

The main difference being the challenge. The big gameplay hook for Zelda 1 for me was always trying to do as much exploration as possible while trying to survive. 3D Zelda is just so easy, exploring is more chill than it is a challenge in itself.

I hope they populate the world with interesting hooks, but it's so hard to think of any rewards besides Rupees you quickly run out of a use for.

My main 2 gripes. I hope it is challenging and I hope the economy is worth a damn. Im tired of doing a puzzle or reaching a difficult chest only to grab a rupee to add to my 10,000 other worthless rupees.

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

And it's the worst game in the series IMO (I'm not counting the CD-i games).

 

[Raide]

As long as they fill the world with interesting things to do, it will be great. Will be interesting to see how they cope with a large open world that is not just walled off areas with forest pipes linking to other walled off areas. Having a sense of exploration and finding rare things is something Zelda needs to work on.

 

[Slime]

It's not the size of the overworld that's the key difference (though that's definitely part of it), it's the fact that it's open and non-linear. Every past 3D Zelda has had environments / progression that feels extremely artificial. OOT, MM, TP, and SS had a central hub with other environments branching off of it, and then WW had a giant ocean that was open but had huge sections that were inaccessible until you progressed to a certain part in the story. Zelda for Wii U looks to be totally (and finally!) ditching those designs out the window, instead offering a truly open, non-linear world.

That's why people are so excited. That doesn't address your concerns really, though. As far emptiness goes, I keep thinking of Skyrim. I found exploration in Skyrim to be a total joy, and that was largely due to two things: 1. the world was gorgeous and 2. there were interesting random enemy encounters. Zelda looks like it has the first one nailed down, and hopefully the second one, too.

If they can make the world generally fun to just exist in, then I'll consider it a success. They can have secrets be fairly few and far between, which will make finding them feel even more special and rewarding. One of my favorite ever secrets in a Zelda game is the invisibility cape in ALLTP. It was totally optional and awesome. I can't wait to explore the world of the new game and find something of that stature.

I dunno if this really addresses your points all that well, but I'm not worried.


And then there's people like me who've been wanting the series to return to the openness of the first game for thirty years, haha. You can sit this one out if you need to.

Well, the non-linearity element is definitely the thing to celebrate. It's impossible to not be thrilled about that. I hope that element is the defining point of the game, because I loved feeling like I was somewhere I wasn't supposed to be in LoZ, and trying to break sequence in ALTTP. That alone makes the whole thing worth it.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Im just going off what I remeber him saying, that even in a peaceful setting like this an enemey can appear, or something like that. Made it sound like it would be unscripted. I mean Link was just sitting there, he didnt trigger anything, and it was said to all be in game. But yeah we really dont know. But was implied it could happen at anytime.

Let me rephrase what i meant.. Because in my mind im thinking of destiny. Like how they have the random events thing going on i dont want that kind of thing. Enemy popping out showing the same old enemy doin the same routine fighting over and over no.

What i want is like upon finding a new lake or cave or something.. similar to dragon age or dark souls, if you find a new cave entrance or lake and you try to go further into it you stumble upon this over powered dragon resting in the springs or something you just cant beat without a certain item or just something that will approach you with a new challenge upon discovery.

 

[Kissenkopf]

And it's the worst game in the series IMO (I'm not counting the CD-i games).

 

[Taker666]

More than just a sprinkling. The Great Ocean, Hyrule Field in TP, and the Sky were almost completely barren.

..but isn't that a reflection of reality?

I just rewatched the first Hobbit movie in preperation for the final film ..and the "open world " parts of New Zealand which they walk through are every bit as barren (if not moreso). Rocks, grass and the occasional tree is really all there is.

 

[Ansatz]

I never get tired of reductive bullshit like this.

EDIT:
You should hope that Zelda picks up a few pointers from Xenoblade on how design compelling environments.

You can't blend tight mechanical design with compelling environments, it's a contradiction. Except if we're talking about the background, i.e. parts of the game the character can't interact with. That's fine, think Metroid Prime.

But the actual gameplay field of Xenoblade is void of any gameplay substance, it's literally pure combat that doesn't even take into account the surrounding environment for interesting gameplay/strategy like in The Last Story. It's a boring plane most of the time.

There has to be a middle ground between Xenoblade immersion and Captain Toad meaningful level design. Skyward Sword has by far the best outdoor area design of any 3D Zelda. That's why I'm saying you could place SS-like areas within this world as enclosed spaces of gamey level design surrounded by atmospheric empty space akin to Xenoblade, as sort of islands of land in the sea of empty landscape, like a town in RPGs surrounded by nothing but instead of a town it's a gamey area where all the substance is located. Because if you space out the substance of SS into the entire world, it would be like adding the same amount of salt in a bathtub filled with water as you'd put in a regular glass; you can barely taste it. I'd prefer local areas of high concentration than an entire world with almost nothing to do. You could say that's what dungeons are for tbh, but a dungeon follows a strict formula, I also want the casual playground style areas of SS as I had a blast exploring those in between temples.

 

[Kinsei]

..but isn't that a reflection of reality?

I just rewatched the first Hobbit movie in preperation for the final film ..and the "open world " parts of New Zealand which they walk through are every bit as barren (if not moreso). Rocks, grass and the occasional tree is really all there is.

Yeah, but a game isn't real life.

 

[tkscz]

More than just a sprinkling. The Great Ocean, Hyrule Field in TP, and the Sky were almost completely barren.

Did we sail two different great oceans? I kept having to deal with sharks, octoroks, those fat fish things, cyclones in the beginning. The great sea had a lot going on.

 

[Mory Dunz]

I actually liked.WW's overworld. I guess a lot of GAF didn't I suppose.
[Then again, I've never played a Zelda game I hated so I'm already a minority for ZeldaGAF ]

I liked the small islands, the outlook towers, the submarines, the treasures, and aesthetic of everyone. It actually felt like a full world compared to most Zelda games I feel.

There was a lot of side stuff IMO.

EDIT:
Nice timing ^^^

 

[Malus]

I never thought Zelda open worlds were particularly empty. Like someone else mentioned there's usually enemies, collectibles and minigames scattered throughout. WW lacked environment variety but that shouldn't be the case here.

I'm disappointed in how little of substance they showed, but what we saw doesn't say anything about the amount of content.

That said it'd be surprising if this game really had significantly more content than other Zeldas. Mario Sunshine was more "open" but it didn't have a ton more levels than the Galaxies. WW is bigger and ALBW is more open than SS but they don't have substantially more content. People hoping for way more villages and more significant NPC's should probably temper expectations. I haven't seen EAD focus stuffing games with tons and tons of content like a Skyrim or GTA.

 

[majik13]

Let me rephrase what i meant.. Because in my mind im thinking of destiny. Like how they have the random events thing going on i dont want that kind of thing. Enemy popping out showing the same old enemy doin the same routine fighting over and over no.

What i want is like upon finding a new lake or cave or something.. similar to dragon age or dark souls, if you find a new cave entrance or lake and you try to go further into it you stumble upon this over powered dragon resting in the springs or something you just cant beat without a certain item or just something that will approach you with a new challenge upon discovery.

Sure Id like that too. Not sure they will though. At least not as challanging or roadblocky as those gamesI would think. I could perhaps see new enemies introduced like that, that would be tough to beat with standard attacks but easier when attacked in conjunction with an item or after you learn a special strategy. But yeah it would be cool if they have some bosses or minibosses in the overworld.

 

[Ansatz]

I never thought Zelda open worlds were particularly empty. Like someone else mentioned there's usually enemies, collectibles and minigames scattered throughout. WW lacked environment variety but that shouldn't be the case here.

I'm disappointed in how little of substance they showed, but what we saw doesn't say anything about the amount of content.

That said it'd be surprising if this game really had significantly more content than other Zeldas. Mario Sunshine was more "open" but it didn't have a ton more levels than the Galaxies. WW is bigger and ALBW is more open than SS but they don't have substantially more content. People hoping for way more villages and more significant NPC's should probably temper expectations. I haven't seen EAD focus stuffing games with tons and tons of content like a Skyrim or GTA.

Yeah they did, TP's castle town is filled with generic, non interactive NPCs meant to add immersion and life to the city.

But I vastly prefer the quality over quantity approach of Skyloft or Clocktown, every character is unique and has something interest to say and nothing feels copy/pastey as in TP's main town. I should be able to enter every house and it should have distinct, fleshed out interior, not generic stuff you see in RPGs.

 

[Malus]

The main difference being the challenge. The big gameplay hook for Zelda 1 for me was always trying to do as much exploration as possible while trying to survive. 3D Zelda is just so easy, exploring is more chill than it is a challenge in itself.

I hope they populate the world with interesting hooks, but it's so hard to think of any rewards besides Rupees you quickly run out of a use for.

There are unlimited potential hooks and rewards in open world games. Xenoblade had you racking up XP, Skill Points, affinity, creating skill links, buying new armors/weapons/abilities, discovering and crafting gems, fighting off unique enemies, unlockable optional dialogue, and literally hundreds of sidequests. etc.

But I don't think Nintendo wants to stuff Zelda with all those complex upgrade systems. Accessibility is key. They took a small step in that direction with equipment upgrades in SS, which introduced it's own set of collectible items, but I can't imagine them going much further.

 

[AzVal]

What I am getting from many post is that some people think that grass fields should look filled like a Morrocco market and shine like Las Vegas Strip. This is not a SM3DW level dont spect enemies coins platforms and entrances every 3 meters. Too many obstacles or enemies in open areas can make some games feel very unreal and tiresome to traverse, Xenoblade did a good job on it but hte combat mechanics and specially the geographic setting was quite different.

 

[Nanashrew]

I'm just learning to make gifs and now I wanna make a bunch of them. Admittedly they are pretty low quality =/. I don't know of a good program for higher quality gifs. I've kind of alternated between photoshop and gimp and they're kinda meh. I also have an older version of photoshop so that probably adds to the problem.

Here's a second from me. Imgur is making them webms I guess? or something http://i.imgur.com/gWEvpjX.gifv

The gifs I've been uploading are color corrected btw.

Quick example of my color correction:
Right side is the original image with bluish tint from the window and white walls. Left side is my color correction.

Clean image.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

And it's the worst game in the series IMO (I'm not counting the CD-i games).

Zelda 1 (while obviously a milestone for it's time) really is an incredibly archaic, underdeveloped, shallow, and obtuse game; it hasn't aged well in the slightest, especially when compared to OoT (The exact point in which the series found it's identity). It really is one of the worst/weakest entries in the series.
If this free-roaming overworld structure is truly inspired by that game than all I can really do is loathe it's existence in a weird way. This generic useless "realistic" skyrim-esque nonsense that they're shoehorning into LoZ feels like a complete step backwards; they really had something with SS's dungeon-like overworlds, the concept/element actually played to Zelda's strengths (I mean it's real/tangible gameplay strengths rather than fluff like "adventure" or "exploration") and it's a shame that it looks like they're throwing that away in favor of this run-of-the-mill thing they're doing now.

Hopefully they'll return to that structure next-gen...

Spoiler

Or they'll upend the tea table on this game, and return to dungeon-like overworld areas. I'm hoping for the both the former and the latter.

 

[higgsboson1997]

Taken from reddit:

A lot of people seem to be freaking out over an 'empty over world' based on two minutes of unfinished footage designed to show off the expansive land. Even in those two minutes, I managed to spot a few interesting things.
At the very start we see large red banner and a slightly smaller one, obviously marking some sort of civilisation or community.
We also see a very clear castle in the middle of nowhere.
There is also what looks to be some sort of warp pad (other ideas encouraged!)
And finally, is there some sort of dome to the right of the cliff?
That's not to mention the 'dungeon entrance' discussed by Miyamoto and Aonuma. My point is, if I can find all this stuff in two minutes while having a drink before heading out, if you watch the footage carefully there are many interesting things to see. Fear not, and have faith in Nintendo. They have knocked it out of the park consistently this year, and I have faith they'll continue to do so during the next.


^ I think that pretty much sums it up exactly.

 

[hateradio]

Why didn't they do a direct stream? Lame.

Looks good though.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

Why didn't they do a direct stream? Lame.

Looks good though.

Probably because it looks very rough in higher fidelity, though your guess is as good as mine.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Oh wow. Haha.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Why didn't they do a direct stream? Lame.

Looks good though.

My head says because they wanted to wait until the game is more close to completion before showing it up close. My heart says because there'll be a direct feed trailer at the end of a Nintendo Direct this week.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Zelda 1 (while obviously a milestone for it's time) really is an incredibly archaic, underdeveloped, shallow, and obtuse game; it hasn't aged well in the slightest, especially when compared to OoT (The exact point in which the series found it's identity). It really is one of the worst/weakest entries in the series.
If this free-roaming overworld structure is truly inspired by that game than all I can really do is loathe it's existence in a weird way. This generic useless "realistic" skyrim-esque nonsense that they're shoehorning into LoZ feels like a complete step backwards; they really had something with SS's dungeon-like overworlds, the concept/element actually played to Zelda's strengths (I mean it's real/tangible gameplay strengths rather than fluff like "adventure" or "exploration") and it's a shame that it looks like they're throwing that away in favor of this run-of-the-mill thing they're doing now.
Hopefully they'll return to that structure next-gen...

Spoiler

Or they'll upend the tea table on this game, and return to dungeon-like overworld areas. I'm hoping for the both the former and the latter.

To be fair, we don't know how dynamic the world can get, so they could have worked something akin to SS in where the closer you get to a dungeon the more puzzle-like and dynamic the overworld becomes. Plus there is some evidence to say that things will get more dangerous, at the least, by the map which shows that volcano in the distance covered by a metric ton of lava. I mean, at least I hope that's the case, as while I like TP and OOT, a bigger version of those worlds seems a little boring.

Taken from reddit:
A lot of people seem to be freaking out over an 'empty over world' based on two minutes of unfinished footage designed to show off the expansive land. Even in those two minutes, I managed to spot a few interesting things.
At the very start we see large red banner and a slightly smaller one, obviously marking some sort of civilisation or community.
We also see a very clear castle in the middle of nowhere.
There is also what looks to be some sort of warp pad (other ideas encouraged!)
And finally, is there some sort of dome to the right of the cliff?
That's not to mention the 'dungeon entrance' discussed by Miyamoto and Aonuma. My point is, if I can find all this stuff in two minutes while having a drink before heading out, if you watch the footage carefully there are many interesting things to see. Fear not, and have faith in Nintendo. They have knocked it out of the park consistently this year, and I have faith they'll continue to do so during the next.
^ I think that pretty much sums it up exactly.

Where did they see the castle? Gonna have to watch it again to see if I can see it.

 

[Ansatz]

Taken from reddit:

A lot of people seem to be freaking out over an 'empty over world' based on two minutes of unfinished footage designed to show off the expansive land. Even in those two minutes, I managed to spot a few interesting things.
At the very start we see large red banner and a slightly smaller one, obviously marking some sort of civilisation or community.
We also see a very clear castle in the middle of nowhere.
There is also what looks to be some sort of warp pad (other ideas encouraged!)
And finally, is there some sort of dome to the right of the cliff?
That's not to mention the 'dungeon entrance' discussed by Miyamoto and Aonuma. My point is, if I can find all this stuff in two minutes while having a drink before heading out, if you watch the footage carefully there are many interesting things to see. Fear not, and have faith in Nintendo. They have knocked it out of the park consistently this year, and I have faith they'll continue to do so during the next.


^ I think that pretty much sums it up exactly.

Well that's precisely like Wind Waker then, local places of interest in a sea of nothing. You just travel from A to B with Epona and occasionally stumble upon enemies, wild life, eat an apple, find a cave with rupees etc.

This is pointless gameplay, not meaningful. It shouldn't take me minutes to travel to interesting locations. In 2D Zelda every screen has substance and the transition from one to another takes a few seconds.

Spirit Tracks is the most extreme version of this structure, the overworld is a metagame that takes you to the actual interesting levels. In Zelda U, the metagame is riding Epona.

I just want the levels in ST, WW, PH. Not the overworld metagame. In SS it's the empty sky, but it takes a few seconds to reach interesting land from Skyloft, just dive down to one of the holes. In Zelda U it seems we have to endure much more nothingness between the fun stuff.

 

[robertsan21]

wait wait wait....wait a minute folK..
The horse can't run into trees but ...BUT IT CAN RUN INTO OTHER HORSES?

no, the horse is just standing up on its back legs.

 

[eXistor]

I'm just hoping that they put in lots of obscure secrets in the world like a cave opening up only at night when a full moon shines on it. Or swimming in lake Hylia at certain times or throwing in certain items making something appear. I love stuff like that. It's really looking to be more exploration and adventure-based and that's a great thing for me. The dungeons should still be puzzle boxes though, but I hope they'll open them up as well, like not being able to finish a dungeon and coming back at a later time with different items.

 

[Lux R7]

I can feel the magic.
Awesome.
I want it now.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

Well that's precisely like Wind Waker then, local places of interest in a sea of nothing. You just travel from A to B with Epona and occasionally stumble upon enemies, wild life, eat an apple, find a cave with rupees etc.

This is pointless gameplay, not meaningful. It shouldn't take me minutes to travel to interesting locations. In 2D Zelda every screen has substance and the transition from one to another takes a few seconds.

Spirit Tracks is the most extreme version of this structure, the overworld is a metagame that takes you to the actual interesting levels. In Zelda U, the metagame is riding Epona.

I just want the levels in ST, WW, PH. Not the overworld metagame. In SS it's the empty sky, but it takes a few seconds to reach interesting land from Skyloft, just dive down to one of the holes. In Zelda U it seems we have to endure much more nothingness between the fun stuff.

Nothingness? The entire world, I'd imagine, is going to be manually constructed. It's a beautiful thing to take in; exploring. Hell I personally spent half my time in Skyrim just appreciating some of the minor geographical details.

What on earth is with gamers nowadays and HATING exploration? Seriously. Looking at the No Man's Sky threads especially make me sad.

 

[one_kill]

Well that's precisely like Wind Waker then, local places of interest in a sea of nothing. You just travel from A to B with Epona and occasionally stumble upon enemies, wild life, eat an apple, find a cave with rupees etc.

This is pointless gameplay, not meaningful. It shouldn't take me minutes to travel to interesting locations. In 2D Zelda every screen has substance and the transition from one to another takes a few seconds.

Spirit Tracks is the most extreme version of this structure, the overworld is a metagame that takes you to the actual interesting levels. In Zelda U, the metagame is riding Epona.

I just want the levels in ST, WW, PH. Not the overworld metagame. In SS it's the empty sky, but it takes a few seconds to reach interesting land from Skyloft, just dive down to one of the holes. In Zelda U it seems we have to endure much more nothingness between the fun stuff.

I don't think you know what 'metagame' is.

Anyway, how do you want the travel to be? Getting from point A to point B is not meaningless nor pointless. There's value to be had in exploring and discovering something.

 

[Ansatz]

I don't think you know what 'metagame' is.

Anyway, how do you want the travel to be? Getting from point A to point B is not meaningless nor pointless. There's value to be had in exploring and discovering something.

Metagame is a game within a game?

Like in NSMB U's challenge mode, some of them require you to finish a level without touching the coins. I think that's a metagame, because the gameplay rules have changed.

The train / boat / bird part has nothing to do with the main gameplay of those respective Zelda games. It's a minigame that takes you from A to B. A and B is where I want to be in, and the shorter the transition is, the better.

 

[Kinsei]

Nothingness? The entire world, I'd imagine, is going to be manually constructed. It's a beautiful thing to take in; exploring. Hell I personally spent half my time in Skyrim just appreciating some of the minor geographical details.

What on earth is with gamers nowadays and HATING exploration? Seriously. Looking at the No Man's Sky threads especially make me sad.

Exploration is fun when you're rewarded for it. Seeing pretty things isn't a reward IMO.

Metroid Prime is the perfect example of what I think good exploration is.

 

[MCN]

What on earth is with gamers nowadays and HATING exploration? Seriously. Looking at the No Man's Sky threads especially make me sad.

They're used to being spoonfed instant gratification linear bullshit from the likes of Call of Duty now. If there are fewer than 10 acts of violence per minute, it's "meaningless".

 

[MCN]

Seeing pretty things isn't a reward IMO.

As someone who used to do a lot of fellwalking, I STRONGLY disagree.

(Oops, dp)

 

[The_Lump]

Well that's precisely like Wind Waker then, local places of interest in a sea of nothing. You just travel from A to B with Epona and occasionally stumble upon enemies, wild life, eat an apple, find a cave with rupees etc.

This is pointless gameplay, not meaningful. It shouldn't take me minutes to travel to interesting locations. In 2D Zelda every screen has substance and the transition from one to another takes a few seconds.

Spirit Tracks is the most extreme version of this structure, the overworld is a metagame that takes you to the actual interesting levels. In Zelda U, the metagame is riding Epona.

I just want the levels in ST, WW, PH. Not the overworld metagame. In SS it's the empty sky, but it takes a few seconds to reach interesting land from Skyloft, just dive down to one of the holes. In Zelda U it seems we have to endure much more nothingness between the fun stuff.

Doesn't seem like THAT much "nothingness" between things of interest though - given what we can already spot during a quick little gallop through one tiny section of the overworld. Seems to have a fairly organic mix of locations and space between those locations to me. Much like, I dunno, a real world might appear

 

[sinxtanx]

Recap of yesterday's findings:

My first attempt at finding where the E3 demo was, I grossly underestimate the sheer size of the world

Captain Smoker sets me right. This map. THIS MAP

Then I go search for the position of the first cut, which was easy enough to find.

The second one was much harder to determine, I give this 50% certainty. It DID lead to me finding the cylinder. The cylinder is awesome and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Third one. There's no way to figure out where this is, other than since I assume all clips are in chronological order, this is east of the moblin fight either going from it, or on the way back towards it's location.

Fourth one. Despite all the data, I couldn't quite figure out where this is supposed to be. I give this 10% certainty.

And today I wrote down my thoughts on what is where on the world map:

 

[D_prOdigy]

That's the feeling I've been getting. It seems like Zelda is moving away from what I enjoy about the series.

I may be being really dense here, but I can't really think of any Zelda game that doesn't have a significant 'open world' element in it.

Sorry if you've already touched upon this in the thread, but could you explain which Zelda games you perceive not to have an undesirable 'open world', and what the sharp break is between those and the 'bad' kind?

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

Exploration is fun when you're rewarded for it. Seeing pretty things isn't a reward IMO.

Metroid Prime is the perfect example of what I think good exploration is.

We disagree on an intrinsic level.

They're used to being spoonfed instant gratification linear bullshit from the likes of Call of Duty now. If there are fewer than 10 acts of violence per minute, it's "meaningless".

Sounds about right to me. *sigh*

 

[MDX]

I love that white sheen that's appears on the grass.

Its going to be a magical game.

 

[Kinsei]

I may be being really dense here, but I can't really think of any Zelda game that doesn't have a significant 'open world' element in it.

Sorry if you've already touched upon this in the thread, but could you explain which Zelda games you perceive not to have an undesirable 'open world', and what the sharp break is between those and the 'bad' kind?

Hyrule Field (OoT), Termina Field, Hyrule (LttP), Hyrule (MC), Koholint, Holodrum & Labrynna just to name a few examples of what I think are good overworlds. Everything felt like it existed for a reason, and I never felt bored going from place to place.

Hyrule Field (TP) and the Great Ocean are examples of overworlds where I felt the size and scope detracted from the game. There were times when I was sailing/riding to the next objective and I was really bored.

That's what I'm really worried about here. I don;t want a bunch of empty space just for the sake of making the world feel large ala TP and WW.

 

[Nanashrew]

Recap of yesterday's findings:

My first attempt at finding where the E3 demo was, I grossly underestimate the sheer size of the world

Captain Smoker sets me right. This map. THIS MAP

Then I go search for the position of the first cut, which was easy enough to find.

The second one was much harder to determine, I give this 50% certainty. It DID lead to me finding the cylinder. The cylinder is awesome and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Third one. There's no way to figure out where this is, other than since I assume all clips are in chronological order, this is east of the moblin fight either going from it, or on the way back towards it's location.

Fourth one. Despite all the data, I couldn't quite figure out where this is supposed to be. I give this 10% certainty.

And today I wrote down my thoughts on what is where on the world map:

I'm curious to where that dragon like structure is on the map that RagnarokX spotted. It was up high and possibly on the way to the waypoint, but we know it was to the right of Link when Aonuma veered away. I wonder if it could be that light brown spot for that cylindrical structure. Could be a dungeon or an enemy village filled with bokoblins.

 

[MDX]

Hyrule Field (TP) and the Great Ocean are examples of overworlds where I felt the size and scope detracted from the game. There were times when I was sailing/riding to the next objective and I was really bored.
.

You have to look deep inside yourself and ask why you really got bored.

 

[Ansatz]

They're used to being spoonfed instant gratification linear bullshit from the likes of Call of Duty now. If there are fewer than 10 acts of violence per minute, it's "meaningless".

Call of Duty implies bad design though.

More like Mario Galaxy 2 (2 due to level select screen > hub area of Galaxy 1)
Bayonetta
Shovel Knight
Captain Toad
Pikmin
Mario Kart.....

This is masterclass design. Nothing reduntant or pointless, literally every object has a gameplay purpose. TP's overworld was shit, but like with Zelda U, the dungeons man, there is nothing like them on the market. It's worth enduring a walking simulator to experience them, if it means financial stability. Skyrim was ultra boring because when you eventually reached point B, the gameplay was shallow as fuck. I don't get these games but whatever.

 

[D_prOdigy]

Hyrule Field (OoT), Termina Field, Hyrule (LttP), Hyrule (MC), Koholint, Holodrum & Labrynna just to name a few examples of what I think are good overworlds. Everything felt like it existed for a reason, and I never felt bored going from place to place.

Hyrule Field (TP) and the Great Ocean are examples of overworlds where I felt the size and scope detracted from the game. There were times when I was sailing/riding to the next objective and I was really bored.

That's what I'm really worried about here. I don;t want a bunch of empty space just for the sake of making the world feel large ala TP and WW.

I see what you're saying, I think. I do think it's impossible to be drawing these kinds of conclusions about Zelda Wii U from two brief public appearances though.

And for me, a beautiful overworld can be it's own reward. Xenoblade is the prime example of this. And incidentally, I do think the OoT Hyrule field absolutely DOES typify what you don't like in 'big empty' overworlds that come across as open for the sake of open. That's of course just an age thing though.

 

[sinxtanx]

I'm curious to where that dragon like structure is on the map that RagnarokX spotted. It was up high and possibly on the way to the waypoint, but we know it was to the right of Link when Aonuma veered away. I wonder if it could be that light brown spot for that cylindrical structure. Could be a dungeon or an enemy village filled with bokoblins.

I think it (whatever it is) would be on the northern ridge of the cylinder.