JadedWriter
Member
Iroh explains that he learned how to redirect lightning by watching the movements of waterbenders I believe.
Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
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Brawndo Addict
Banned
I did reference it in an earlier post but I wanted to follow through, although it's in the literature context and not television. Which I was completely wrong about in terms of how much more hostile it is to said inclusions in the arena of children's cartoons: Greg Weisman of Young Justice on GLBT characters: “I also believe we have differently oriented characters in the series, even though we’re not allowed to mention it out loud. And just to be sure, I checked to see if we were allowed, and got a no answer. Everyone seems to want to get there, but we’re not there yet.” Relating to Adventure Time: In August of 2014, after a long controversy; Olivia Olson, the voice of Marceline, told a crowd of fans gathered at a Barnes & Noble book signing from The Adventure Time Encyclopedia, that, according to Pendleton Ward (creator of the series), Marceline and Princess Bubblegum had dated in the past, but that because the series airs in some areas where homosexual relationships are illegal, the show has not been able to officially make clear the relationship in the series itself.
I'm not trying to use this as 'evidence' for an argument, I just think the perspective is more important to include than my own.I also didn't intend for most of the sources to be gay men, I just was having trouble finding female authors talking about it.
I'm not trying to use this as 'evidence' for an argument, I just think the perspective is more important to include than my own.
JadedWriter
Member
That never got explained. Most of the people that have done it were actual avatars. So Ghazan just randomly doing it is weird along with Bolin picking it up. I know the lave bending form that Ghazan uses consists of a lot more fluid motions, but that's all I know.
SoulUnison
Banned
That's more or less where I landed with it, too.
In my mind, it's a mutation brought on by Bolin having both Earth and Firebender blood.
Lavabending isn't *unheard of,* apparently. When Suyin learns Bolin just unlocked Lavabending, her reaction is "Wow, that's extremely rare!" rather than "What the what?"
Though I guess you could make an argument that Bolin's extremely familiar with Firebending forms, since he's professionally bent alongside his brother for so long.
I guess this kind of thing is just interesting to me, as the mechanic of "powers" in fictional universes has always been something that's fascinated me.
My favorite parts of any work are typically when the characters are just learning their abilities and figuring out their applications and limits.
I was just hit with a horrible feeling of futility, knowing all these questions will be irrelevant for the rest of history in about twelve hours.
It's the apocalypse of Avatar. After the final frame, everyone's dead.
It's no more overthinking than what they did for lightning. They thought about where it came from, what mindset is needed, and how it played out. Gave it a bit of reality. Good world-building.
It's the apocalypse of Avatar. After the final frame, everyone's dead.
It's no more overthinking than what they did for lightning. They thought about where it came from, what mindset is needed, and how it played out. Gave it a bit of reality. Good world-building.
But then there's a ton of heat. Is it just like controlling flaming rocks at that point? Like someone lit a rock on fire and you're just flinging it around? That's super old school, like how benders were back in Beginnings.
SoulUnison
Banned
I feel like if it were that simple, an Earthbender would have discovered it a lot sooner.
Also, that'd mean there'd be a basic theory toit that any Earthbender could try to pick up on, instead of it being an innate ability that you either have the aptitude for or not.
Aang compressed Earth pretty hard during the fight with Ozai, and that didn't make lava. I mean, he was the Avatar, though, and at the pinnacle of bending ability at the time, so really,he could have done whatever he wanted.
But, if Lava bending comes from compression, and Aang didn't create lava, that implies that Earthbenders have a degree of "temperature control" over their medium just the same, like Waterbenders and creating ice.
Eh. I mean, you could argue that as writers, they should have SOME logic to the fantasy world they have created. That's fine. I've always argued that, in a story like Avatar where magic has infinite possibilities, there is a lot of things that COULD happen, that would easily break the entire world.
So I almost feel like, you can't apply realism to this sort of thing. But if you did want to argue that Lava Bending is too silly, I guess? I would say, lava bending being rare, is what is silly. That lava should have been a natural extension to earth bending, and something most earth benders knew how to do.
There is almost like, self imposed rules. Or self imposed limitations to things that the writers do (making certain things rare just for the sake of not making bending OP).
Like Blood bending shouldn't even be rare. If you can bend water, then you should be able to bend the liquid in people's bodies. That should just be like a basic thing. But if water benders all did this, then suddenly it can break the world. Imagine what Air benders could do, if they actually did what they should be able to do with air bending. Sucking the air out of an area in an instant. lol
You could have an entire evil group of waterbenders who instantly kill people by blasting all their blood from their bodies or freezing it in their veins in an instant.
Imagine the wars. People being set on fire, crushed into flat objects with earth, dissolved into sand and bone by waterbenders.
Maybe those wars did at one point happen, but it got so brutal that all sides decided to stop before they wiped themselves from existence.
But then you'd have to ask, "so there must've been a special group for each nation that exists just to safeguard all this evil shit from happening"
Of course, we're talking about zero limitations on censorship here, and worldbuilding from that presumption. And in that case it's not really Avatar, because that world was made with Nickelodeon in mind.
Imagine the wars. People being set on fire, crushed into flat objects with earth, dissolved into sand and bone by waterbenders.
Maybe those wars did at one point happen, but it got so brutal that all sides decided to stop before they wiped themselves from existence.
But then you'd have to ask, "so there must've been a special group for each nation that exists just to safeguard all this evil shit from happening"
Of course, we're talking about zero limitations on censorship here, and worldbuilding from that presumption. And in that case it's not really Avatar, because that world was made with Nickelodeon in mind.
LupusWarrior
Neo Member
im going to use this every time I am joking with someone
Yeah. And that's really the problem. You almost just have to accept, that logic can't work in this kind of story. And that there are certain things that COULD be done, but won't because it would break things. Basically self imposed limitations from the god hand (Aka the writers).
SoulUnison
Banned
My theory on why Bloodbending is rare is my same theory as to why Zaheer didn't just go around effortlessly suffocating everybody that got in his way.
I think it takes an insane degree of control and concentration to bend something that's not in your line of sight.
Note how, when Zaheer murders the Earth Queen, he's doing a long series of controlled and elaborate motions for what seems to be, really, a pretty minor display of Airbending.
This theory also has the benefit of making Toph pretty much the most amazing non-Avatar bender in history.
PS: Why doesn't Korra care about learning Lavabending?
It bothered me since Toph invented Metalbending way back in ATLA and Aang didn't immediately ask her to teach it to him.
It's *literally* the Avatar's duty to master all forms of bending, and yet Aang's just sort of like "A brand new school of bending!? ... Huh."
When Suyin sort of called Korra out on not learning Metalbending I actually said out loud to the TV "Thank you! Finally!"
But then Lavabending was introduced and we were right back to Korra not even *thinking* about whether or not she could learn it.
It felt even more egregious to me since Korra's *all about* bending, and has the perfect mindset for wanting to learn "tough" and "combat-oriented" bending like Metal and Lava.
At least with Aang I can go with the theory that he just wasn't a very good Metalbender, since basic Earth was hard for him to pick up in the first place, and Metal is a ridiculous degree more difficult.
I think you're making some leaps here that aren't really justified. First, it would take an immense amount of compression to cause a phase change in rock. Well above and beyond simply mashing rocks together. You'd pretty clearly need to be both very 'strong' and intending to do it to make it happen.
And second, Aang was a prodigy at airbending and showed great skill at firebending as well, but he was not by any means the pinnacle of earth bending at the time (Toph was). He wasn't even really that good at it, even after he became competent. Except maybe in the avatar state, but then presumably he'd need to want to for some reason. Even now they haven't shown it as being any kind of a panacea, so it's not like it would have been a decisive tool for victory.
Anyways, this idea that if someone can do a physical thing now must mean it was always something people were capable of is silly. Just look at generational jumps in track and field sports to see how even basic stuff like running and swimming can be improved over time to a huge degree. Fairly average competitors in track can now outrun olympic winners from like 50 years ago.
BKatastrophe
Member
Yeah, but you could argue metalbending should have been found much quicker as well. I mean, how in thousands of years, has no one discovered a) radar sense before Toph and b) that metal is refined earth, and thus could have impurities? I mean, how? And then on top of that the first person to find it is a 12 year old blind girl?
Still, my only gripe with Book 3 was and forever will be, lavabending.
Yes, but Usain Bolt didn't suddenly see a guy running fast and go, "oh, hey, now I'm fast too." He had to train, he had to work super hard to be the absolute best, even with his natural gift. There's an explanation for why a guy like that exists and why he's better than everyone else who's come before.
Hmm. Okay.
Well in the case of Aang using a lot of force, maybe it requires a different kind of force. Like a specific focus of concentration and energy to make the rocks turn to lava. Why is it so far fetched to apply that logic to lava bending? You accept that explanation for other things, that seem like basic things (that could be done) but aren't. And if we are going with, it takes a lot of concentration and skill, I don't see why that can't also apply to Lava bending.
But Usain Bolt is as much a product of modern training and running technique as any other runner. He is building on the same platform as all the others. Another runner from the same era can look at how Usain Bolt trains and how he runs and have a greater understanding of how he achieved it than someone from 1950 would, because they're starting from the same place. They can improve their own running to a greater degree than that 1950s person would be able to.
And in a couple of decades even an average runner will probably be doing what Usain Bolt does now. That's the more important point here.
Iroh, Hama, Toph, and Ghazan had to work hard to achieve their specialized bending, but people who follow on from them will obviously have to work less hard for that breakthrough.
That's part of my point. He has new kinds of training, all sorts of analysis and exercise and diet. There's a reason he is so good.
Meanwhile, lavabending comes out of absolutely nowhere. What were people building on there? The Avatar? But people aren't the Avatar, no one but the Avatar can master all four elements.
You would think so but I've come across quite a few posts assuming that the pale skinned people in Avatar = Anglo.
These are the same people that think all the people in anime are white. Despite having names like "Yagami" and "Makoto" and living in friggin' Japan.
This is definitely true but since this is a fantasy setting the character's live in a world where factors like race, gender, and orientation are treated differently.
I doubt sexuality is seen as a huge factor in the Avatarverse either.
They kind of lost it, when they were arguing about Canon for like 4 pages.
Kind of sad that this series went out on such a limp note. This whole season. I feel like, so many fans have lost interest, and are just getting this out of the way, like as an obligation. So they want to watch the finale, so they can be done with the show and move on.
Bryke, you dun goofed.
JadedWriter
Member
You want "lost it" you should've read my posts that got deleted...pure uncalled for gold.
My god some people are stupid.
JadedWriter
Member
I wonder what those people think while playing Shin Megami Tensei games.
But Ghazan's not ded, u gaiz!
Probably see them as white tbh. Because of Anime's style I imagine these kinds of people view it as Caucasian people.
JadedWriter
Member
He returned to the lifestream.
SoulUnison
Banned
You know, it was really unclear.
JadedWriter
Member
But the entire casts of those games have Japanese names. They're always in Shinjuku...damn if that's really what people think. No wonder why the Yakuza games barely sell.
JadedWriter
Member
I miss P'li. Funny picture though. I can just picture them setting a Christmas tree on fire.
Since Nick is putting this up at midnight on their site, I wonder if west coast gets the finale at 9pm.
They do
BKatastrophe
Member
Man I miss Ghazan. He was my boy. Now he dead.
Well, I think part of what might be going on here is that anime characters are so simple, that like a smiley face, people project themselves onto it.
Like the guy in my avatar could be a black dude. There's no way you could know.
JadedWriter
Member
Wow people are so close minded and racially biased...I'm rather cynical on the whole topic and even I'm still shocked by it.
Man Bolin really needs to make a lava shuriken before the show's done.Man I miss Ghazan. He was my boy. Now he dead.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
It all ties back into semiotics people, you gotta believe me! No but seriously it does.
Quick googling can bring up essays about this.
The Face of the Other
By Matt Thorn
I have given presentations on manga to Western audiences many times, but regardless of the particular themes of my talks, when the floor is opened up for discussion I am invariably asked the same question: “Why do all the characters look Caucasian?” You may have asked yourself the same question.
I answer that question with a question of my own: “Why do you think they look Caucasian?” “Because of the round eyes,” or the “blonde hair,” is the common response. When I ask then if the questioner actually knows anyone, “Caucasian” or otherwise, who really looks anything like these highly stylized cartoons, the response may be, “Well, they look more Caucasian than Asian.” Considering the wide range of variation in the features of persons of both European and East Asian descent, and the fact that these line drawings fall nowhere remotely within that range, it seems odd to claim that such cartoons look “more like” one people than another, but I hope you will see by now that what is being discussed has nothing to do with objective anatomical reality, but is rather about signification.
A key concept in semiotics is that of “markedness” and “unmarkedness,” elaborated by linguist Roman Jakobson in the 1930s. An “unmarked” category is one that is taken for granted, that is so obvious to both speaker and listener it needs no marking. A “marked” category, by contrast, is one that is seen as deviating from the norm, and therefore requires marking. Well-known examples in English are the words “man” and “woman.” “Man” has for a millennium meant both “human being” and “adult male human being.” The word “woman” comes from a compound meaning “wife-man,” and denotes the relationship of the signified to that “unmarked” category, “man.”
In the case of cartooning, of course, we are dealing with drawn representations rather than words, but the concept of “marked/unmarked” is every bit as salient. In the case of the U.S., and indeed the entire European-dominated world, the unmarked category in drawn representations would be the face of the European. The European face is, as it were, the default face. Draw a circle, add two dots for eyes and a line for a mouth, and you have, in the European sphere, a European face. (More specifically, you would have a male European face. The addition of eyelashes would make it female.) Non-Europeans, however, must be marked in drawn or painted representations, just as they commonly are in daily conversation (e.g., “I have this Black friend who...”.
....
Japan, however, is not and never has been a European-dominated society. The Japanese are not Other within their own borders, and therefore drawn (or painted or sculpted) representations of, by and for Japanese do not, as a rule, include stereotyped racial markers. A circle with two dots for eyes and a line for a mouth is, by default, Japanese.
It should come as no surprise, then, that Japanese readers should have no trouble accepting the stylized characters in manga, with their small jaws, all but nonexistent noses, and famously enormous eyes as “Japanese.” Unless the characters are clearly identified as foreign, Japanese readers see them as Japanese, and it would never occur to most readers that they might be otherwise, regardless of whether non-Japanese observers think the characters look Japanese or not.
When non-Japanese characters appear in a manga in which most characters are Japanese, that character will be differentiated from the others with stereotyped racial markers of some kind. For example, a character of African descent may be shown with pronounced lips, frizzy hair, and shaded skin. A European character may be shown with a pronounced nose and jutting jaw.
Pretty much. Even when characters are supposed to be explicitly white or Japanese, there isn't much to indicate it in anime. Just by facial design alone, I wouldn't be able to tell which Code Geass characters are Japanese and which aren't. Characters from full Metal alchemist are almost entirely European and they seem like any other anime characters. Same thing with Attack on Titan.
Also, this.
JadedWriter
Member
And Asami Sato.
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