Serial: Season 01 Discussion - This American Life meets True Detective

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BertramCooper said:
Next season better not be about another murder.

I'm hoping for something about white-collar crime in the financial sector. It probably won't ignite the masses the way that this season has, but I think it's something that would be well served by this format.
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White collar crimes aren't interesting, at all, and have so few witnesses or conflicting testimony that you'd barely be able to make more than an episode or two about it. "He siphoned $2.7M over the course of 8 years. Here are the statements linking him to the Cayman island account". Or its dumb, insider trading crap that is hard to prove, so prosecutors pick away at "making false statements to prosecutors", like the Martha Stewart case.

Gustav said:
I'd really like to see SK built another case, one without Adnan. I know the case against Adnan is circumstantial and based on witness testimony but it's more than on any other case you could've built.
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Generally, we (as a society) don't give life without parole to minors on just circumstantial evidence, even if it is the most plausible.

Without Jay's plea-bargain-driven statements, there really isn't anything resembling a case against Adnan.
 
Neoweee said:
White collar crimes aren't interesting, at all, and have so few witnesses or conflicting testimony that you'd barely be able to make more than an episode or two about it.
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I don't agree that they're less interesting—not at all, actually—but I do agree that it would probably be a bigger challenge.
 
I honestly don't care what it is about as long as it is something with enough grey area to have people on both sides of he fence. That is gonna be tough to find.

Also, I seriously doubt that they will completely abandon this story. I'm sure that you will have more people who are willing to step forward who weren't when Sarah first started her investigation like Don was in the final episode...and the DNA testing could be huge. Plus, I'm assuming that the MailChimp advertising contract was for the initial 12 episode run so they can probably get waaaaaaaaay more advertising money now.

I would bet we get a podcast about this case at least every other month moving forward.
 
BertramCooper said:
Next season better not be about another murder.

I'm hoping for something about white-collar crime in the financial sector. It probably won't ignite the masses the way that this season has, but I think it's something that would be well served by this format.
Click to expand...

I agree with this-its a industry ripe to explore.
 
daemissary said:
I honestly don't care what it is about as long as it is something with enough grey area to have people on both sides of he fence. That is gonna be tough to find.

Also, I seriously doubt that they will completely abandon this story. I'm sure that you will have more people who are willing to step forward who weren't when Sarah first started her investigation like Don was in the final episode...and the DNA testing could be huge. Plus, I'm assuming that the MailChimp advertising contract was for the initial 12 episode run so they can probably get waaaaaaaaay more advertising money now.
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Oh they'll definitely do a follow-up episode if something significant happens with Adnan's case. No question.
 
BertramCooper said:
Next season better not be about another murder.

I'm hoping for something about white-collar crime in the financial sector. It probably won't ignite the masses the way that this season has, but I think it's something that would be well served by this format.
Click to expand...

I don't know about a financial type crime, but I'd definitely be up for something a little more low key. I would be fine if it wasn't even about a crime, just something interesting that lends itself to the longer format.

I could see something like the Car Dealership episode of TAL being in a longer form, just because there is so many insane ups and downs in the car business month to month. Not saying it'd have to be that, but I'm sure there are a lot of things similar that would be great in larger more in depth segments than one episode or one segment of TAL.
 
Most of what gets covered in "48 Hours Mysteries" would be ripe for this. Kidnappings, extortion, crimes that go bad, crimes with transparent cover-ups, corruption... there's a lot of territory that can make a hell of a story that fillers 10 hours or whatever.

Adnan's story's hook was that so many bits of the testimony were contradictory, as well as the presence of a multiple things that are known to lead to false convictions, AND that it was the last major case of a great & famous defense attorney before she got disbarred. Those same themes likely won't be as center, but the case needs to be messy in at least some way. White collar crime is so... clean, and unambiguous once light gets shone on it.
 
I honestly think they could ignore crime all together. The description of the podcast stays pretty clear of putting itself in any kind of category. Only mentions a true story unfolding over many episodes. It could really be anything they determine interesting enough to fill a full season.
 
I somewhat enjoyed the ending. Hearing about the DNA testing + possible suspect was a little bit uplifting, but then it crashed when Jay was brought up. "Big picture!", wut. It's in the details, man.


also "mail... kimp?" made me lol every episode.

edit: Why are people against next season being about murder, or crime? Fine if you think it's weird with how people are obsessing about real life cases and people, but aren't there a lot of other podcasts out there about other topics you can listen to? imho there aren't enough crime podcasts worth listening to right now.
 
BertramCooper said:
Next season better not be about another murder.

I'm hoping for something about white-collar crime in the financial sector. It probably won't ignite the masses the way that this season has, but I think it's something that would be well served by this format.
Click to expand...

RepairmanJack said:
I don't know about a financial type crime, but I'd definitely be up for something a little more low key. I would be fine if it wasn't even about a crime, just something interesting that lends itself to the longer format.

I could see something like the Car Dealership episode of TAL being in a longer form, just because there is so many insane ups and downs in the car business month to month. Not saying it'd have to be that, but I'm sure there are a lot of things similar that would be great in larger more in depth segments than one episode or one segment of TAL.
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They've already said they aren't doing another murder in multiple interviews. I would like a 12 ep version of white-collar crime, TAL did amazing stuff on the financial crisis. I would love to see more in-depth stuff.

Oh man, they should do the Sony hack.

vityaz said:
I somewhat enjoyed the ending. Hearing about the DNA testing + possible suspect was a little bit uplifting, but then it crashed when Jay was brought up. "Big picture!", wut. It's in the details, man.


also "mail... kimp?" made me lol every episode.

edit: Why are people against next season being about murder, or crime? Fine if you think it's weird with how people are obsessing about real life cases and people, but aren't there a lot of other podcasts out there about other topics you can listen to? imho there aren't enough crime podcasts worth listening to right now.
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Sarah & co. made a big deal about how they didn't want to be "the murder podcast." That was never the point of this long-format podcasting, it was meant to be in-depth coverage, and could be any issue.
 
vityaz said:
I somewhat enjoyed the ending. Hearing about the DNA testing + possible suspect was a little bit uplifting, but then it crashed when Jay was brought up. "Big picture!", wut. It's in the details, man.


also "mail... kimp?" made me lol every episode.

edit: Why are people against next season being about murder, or crime? Fine if you think it's weird with how people are obsessing about real life cases and people, but aren't there a lot of other podcasts out there about other topics you can listen to? imho there aren't enough crime podcasts worth listening to right now.
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I don't think doing another who dunnit murder is a good idea. We already played clue. It's depressing and there's no resolution. Jewelry thief maybe. Serial bank robber could be interesting. But not a who dunnit crime. It's going to be hard to top a murder though in terms of interest.It's about as interesting as a serial podcast can get.
 
Foxy Fox 39 said:
I don't think doing another who dunnit murder is a good idea. We already played clue. It's depressing and there's no resolution. Jewelry thief maybe. Serial bank robber could be interesting. But not a who dunnit crime. It's going to be hard to top a murder though in terms of interest.It's about as interesting as a serial podcast can get.
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Hmh, nobody else into depressing things with no resolution?

I suppose I could agree on it being hard to top. As long as it's crime and/or mystery.. but no white-collar crime.
 
killertofu said:
SK could've used this story to tell a bigger picture about crime/criminal justice in America, but in my opinion, she just kept going through the same plodding plot points, the same wild goose chase for 12 hours.

Very disappointing.
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if you heard all 12 episodes and didn't gain any insight regarding that then maybe you didn't hear all of it or are well informed on the topic.
 
I don't know if I misheard, but did Hae write in her letter to Don that she had been interviewed on the local news the day she vanished? If the segment aired the day she disappeared, that would be too crazy a coincidence to ignore.

If you believe the serial killer theory, then that would put a huge target over her head for anyone looking for a victim who fits a profile. They'd know exactly who she is, what she looks like, and where she goes to school.
 
Clipjoint said:
I don't know if I misheard, but did Hae write in her letter to Don that she had been interviewed on the local news the day she vanished? If the segment aired the day she disappeared, that would be too crazy a coincidence to ignore.

If you believe the serial killer theory, then that would put a huge target over her head for anyone looking for a victim who fits a profile. They'd know exactly who she is, what she looks like, and where she goes to school.
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It was taped that day, but i don't remember hearing if it aired or not.
 
neojubei said:
If there is one thing to take from this case is that Jay is a liar. Seems everyone says Jay is known to lie
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Well, we know for certain he lied because he admitted under oath that he lied. He wasn't alone though. Lots of people seem to have lied or filled memory gaps in this case.

In the end, I feel that Adnan probalby killed Hae. I don't feel like there was enough to convict him brought to trial, but I feel like the right man was put away for the crime. Unless that DNA evidence comes out and exonerates him, I just can't see anybody else that seems to have the motive, the opportunity, and the means to pull it off.
 
I thought it ended as well as it possibly could have, but agree with the above that a new format would be most welcome next year.
 
neojubei said:
If there is one thing to take from this case is that Jay is a liar. Seems everyone says Jay is known to lie
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Jay *did* lie; how can you know if he is still a liar? If you labeled me by my 18 year old self you'd say Brakke is a stoner but I've maybe smoked once in the last six months.
 
tumblr_ng2dko0kH21t0d7sno1_1280.jpg
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I'm going to add some fun stuff to the OP.
 
sparky2112 said:
I've read about it. Where is the meat on them bones? I don't see it.
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A. If he did it.
B. The legality of what the feds did.
C. (as in this case) If the reasons he was captured justifies the way he was captured.

Plus all about TOR and the like.
The economics behind it.

There's plenty if you actually look into it. In no way is it the reductive cut and dry case that you make it to be.

DreamyDrop said:
I'm going to add some fun stuff to the OP.
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Done.
 
DreamyDrop said:
A. If he did it.
B. The legality of what the feds did.
C. (as in this case) If the reasons he was captured justifies the way he was captured.

Plus all about TOR and the like.
The economics behind it.

There's plenty if you actually look into it. In no way is it the reductive cut and dry case that you make it to be.



Done.
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The first season succeeded with a topic that was not well-known and had not received national coverage. A small team working over the course of a year made sense with that kind of topic. And notice that once she popularized the story, you had people from Reddit uncovering details she didn't find in her investigation. Silk Road is an entirely different beast. All of those topics you listed have been written about extensively by people with technical expertise. What unique element does Koenig bring to the story that has been missing from the previous reporting and commentary?
 
tokkun said:
The first season succeeded with a topic that was not well-known and had not received national coverage. A small team working over the course of a year made sense with that kind of topic. And notice that once she popularized the story, you had people from Reddit uncovering details she didn't find in her investigation. Silk Road is an entirely different beast. All of those topics you listed have been written about extensively by people with technical expertise. What unique element does Koenig bring to the story that has been missing from the previous reporting and commentary?
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A lucrative public platform.
 
Really if I had to name one good thing that came out of all of this, it's the money lining Mail Chimp's pockets and all the Mail Chimp related puns.
 
It would be amazing if the Innocence Project's request to test the DNA was approved and there was some sort of DNA match.

I'm sure there probably won't be. Either way, I thought the last episode was really well done, and I certainly agree with Sarah's overall take -- not guilty in legal terms, unclear as to whether he actually did the deed.

Regarding the next season, I think I'd like to see (and I generally expect) something that isn't a crime story. A longer form of embedded-style TAL reports (car dealership, dangerous Chicago high school as a couple of instant examples) would probably work quite well in this format. Beyond not wanting to be "the murder podcast," I doubt they want it to be even "the crime podcast."

There's probably fertile ground for another podcast or two to operate in a similar fashion to Serial... but I wonder if any organization will put up the kind of resources to match what This Amercan Life has done. I wonder what next year's budget looks like.
 
An ancestry mystery could make for an interesting second season of we're thinking of non crime themes.

I do expect we get some sort of update podcast if anything in the Adnan story developes. I don't see why not...it doesn't take much to record a podcast these days and it's something she invested a whole year into already. What's a little more.
 
SickBoy said:
It would be amazing if the Innocence Project's request to test the DNA was approved and there was some sort of DNA match.

I'm sure there probably won't be. Either way, I thought the last episode was really well done, and I certainly agree with Sarah's overall take -- not guilty in legal terms, unclear as to whether he actually did the deed.

Regarding the next season, I think I'd like to see (and I generally expect) something that isn't a crime story. A longer form of embedded-style TAL reports (car dealership, dangerous Chicago high school as a couple of instant examples) would probably work quite well in this format. Beyond not wanting to be "the murder podcast," I doubt they want it to be even "the crime podcast."

There's probably fertile ground for another podcast or two to operate in a similar fashion to Serial... but I wonder if any organization will put up the kind of resources to match what This Amercan Life has done. I wonder what next year's budget looks like.
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Good thinking here. That two parter on TAL was great.
 
vityaz said:
also "mail... kimp?" made me lol every episode.
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The guy with the italian Mario 'Mail-a-chimp' does it for me. :D


Anyway. I feel like the ending was a bit of a damp squib... :-/
I hope we get a revisited episode when the DNA testing and the entire innocence project is done.
 
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/serial-really-taught-us

Koenig’s conclusion? In the end, she said, the only real piece of evidence against Adnan was that Jay was able to lead the police to Hae’s car—and that wasn’t enough to send a seventeen-year-old kid to prison for life. “As a juror, I vote to acquit Adnan Syed,” she said. As a person, she has doubts. That’s an essential distinction. “I feel like shaking everyone by the shoulders like an aggravated cop,” she says. “ ‘Just tell me the facts, ma’am.’ Because we didn’t have them fifteen years ago, and we still don’t have them now.”

Facts can only tell you so much; laws are meant to protect us all from the misapplication of facts, power, and force. “Serial” gave millions of people what felt like a personal connection to the realities of criminal prosecution, and it happened to come at a moment of heightened cultural awareness of the many injustices of that system, in part because of the deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, and Akai Gurley, in part because of growing awareness of the need for prison reform, even in part because of shows like “The Wire” and “Orange Is the New Black.” As a public-defender friend of mine put it, “Terrible things have been happening for a long time with all of us not being aware of it. People go to jail whether they’re innocent or not. You can’t divorce ‘Serial’ from that.” The thing that’s important about “Serial,” he went on, is “not that that dude’s story is unique—it’s that it’s prosaic.”
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How would you feel if season two was six episodes long and was immediately followed by season three, which was also six episodes?
 
DreamyDrop said:
How would you feel if season two was six episodes long and was immediately followed by season three, which was also six episodes?
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I don't care about the length, as long as it fits the story. The Thanksgiving break really hurt the show's momentum for me, so they should just do it all in consecutive weeks.
 
I think the outcome was perfect, and certainly more realistic than cracking the case.

It reminds me of Myst in that you spent the whole game working for one of two unreliable narrators, convinced you could trust them more than the other guy, when really they were both lying to you. The truth took a lot more work and a lot more digging.

It certainly seems likely that Adnan and Jay are both guilty, but Jay got the plea bargain and Adnan is too proud (and/or too involved with his community's opinion of him) to ever admit what happened. The only verdict I can draw is that Adnan was jailed based on a very flawed case against him, and that Jay is a liar. Would be an interesting twist if they were both innocent but convinced the other was involved because, as Jay said, "If not him, then who?"
 
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