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[sörine]

The real problem of WiiU it's not to have raw performance issues just compared to the ps4/xbone which is normal, but compared even the older ps360, that's what I simply said at the end.

It's near the PS360 power envelope, so of course brute force ports will have issues particularly with Wii U's quite different GPU leaning architecture. PS3 and 360 ports often had issues with each other even. That in itself is often less a reflection of raw performance than it is contextual factors though (budget, toolchains, schedule, talent).

To everyone who tried to defend the WiiU hardware, to be more precise.

You said it. To literally anyone who dares defend Wii U in a thread that dares be positive about the system. How dare they.

 

[FF Seraphim]

I am always impressed when I play a Nintendo made Wii U game. They are experts at what they do and one of the few companies around that make games that my wife enjoys playing with me. No matter what anyone says their ability to make games that almost anyone can enjoy is one of the reasons I will keep buying their products.

Also.... Mario Kart.

 

[Schnozberry]

A new hardware should handle multiplat better to a five older machine, without any problem of cost or knowledge. It's the minimum expected from the developers. The anomaly it's Nintendo here.

The problem early on with the Wii U was that the tools were poor, on top of the hardware limitations. Nintendo didn't have their SDK in a mature state, and ports sucked as a result almost by default. Plus, it's a vastly different architecture than coming from PS3 and 360, and using the EDRAM and Caches efficiently requires a lot more retooling than just plopping your code down and expecting it to run better.

Gasoline and Propane are fairly similar, in that they are both hydrocarbons that explode if you spark them. Getting them to burn efficiently with minimal problems requires specialized approaches. If you don't have proper tools, try converting a gasoline engine to run on propane once.

 

[omonimo]

The fact you originally jumped into the discussion with the claims that wiiU had a weaker CPU than those in the ps360. Which, when countered by several posters that the CPUs in ps360 were truly strong in one aspect, to the point Cell exceeded even the CPUs in ps4/xbone in that aspect (namely, FLOPS), you turned around into the argument 'but not for general-purpose CPU functions'. Ironically, same can be said about Espresso and the PPEs in the ps360 - Espresso is the better general-purpose CPU, but it gets trounced in FLOPS by the CPUs in the ps360, particularly by Cell.
.

I don't ... more flop not mean it's more powerful of the ps4 cpu, you know right? Or you tried to say ps3 cpu it's more powerful of the ps4?

 

[Arkanius]

The same thing could be said for 360/ps3, which are 8 year old console's that actually have games with better graphics. so why does the wiiu hardware deserve praise again?

The same thing could

GRITTY BROWN AND MUTED COLOURS
Like this thread is saying,the colourful artstyle brings everything to life and at 60 FPS
Both those games have heavy framerate loss.

Its not that the PS3 and X360 had bad visuals, it was just boring static stuff. Nintendo is doing more with less.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

Man after reading threads like this one it makes me want to buy a WiiU, got to be honest I think that for "Reyes Mago Days" I will treat myself with a WiiU and the first game I´m buying is Bayonetta 2 because I never had the chance to play the first so thats even a great bonus jejejeje.

 

[Yagharek]

Playing Wii games it sucks to not see them in HD. Games like Skyward Sword & Xenoblade would have benefited so much from a bit more power to take it into HD. The same can be said about Wii U games, just a bit more power to fix those jaggies in most games. You can always find things to improve.

While visuals can always improve, in a decade you will look back on old games and be hard pressed to tell the difference. Except Wii u games will have framerates over 25fps.

Visual issues like aliasing and whatnot are not the be all and end all. Performance counts too, as well as pretty graphics.

 

[StevieP]

SPU on ps3 can handle graphic tasks where ps4 can't, but doesn't mean cpu on ps4 it's weaker in some way. Ps4 cpu it's notable more powerful of cell but spu are just customized to gpu tasks. That's why it's not exactly correct talk of overperforming.

You're embarrassing yourself. The ps4 CPU is better in some ways and worse in some ways in regards to a comparison to the cell, and it isn't just "graphics" - floating point performance matters, other wise you wouldn't constantly be harping on the wii u's CPU for THE SAME DEFICIENCIES in comparison to last gen's PPEs.

 

[omonimo]

It's near the PS360 power envelope, so of course brute force ports will have issues particularly with Wii U's quite different GPU leaning architecture. PS3 and 360 ports often had issues with each other even. That in itself is often less a reflection of raw performance than it is contextual factors though (budget, toolchains, schedule, talent).


You said it. To literally anyone who dares defend Wii U in a thread that dares be positive about the system. How dare they.

Who dares without any kinda of logic. And you continue in this path. I think the games were a quite evident proof but whatever.

 

[SteHitch]

I think they have the best looking visuals of any of the current generation consoles so far. At least the most visually appealing to me anyway. It makes me laugh when people compare it to a last gen console, show me any games in the first 2 years that look anywhere near as good as a Wii U game.

It is a shame that the console hasn't sold more and in turn, garnered more support from the third parties. It feels like Nintendo's Dreamcast (without the demise of the company). I hope they can come out with a competitive console next generation with no gimmicks as the gap might become too much for them to be viable as a console developer.

 

[Kimosabae]

They would play exactly the same. As for what they'd look like, you'll know in less than three years.

That's just an assumption. Who knows what gameplay features may have been cut due to hardware limitations.

Doubtless there's very few games in modern development that don't have to make that kind of sacrifice, somewhere, on any hardware.

 

[cRIPticon]

But can't handle multiplat better because it's unbalanced. It's a paradox.

No, it's not. It's because engines were not optimized for the WiiU. Take an engine developed for the platform, from the ground up, with the platforms limitations in mind, and the results can be stunning. Same for any console/platform/computer.

 

[omonimo]

You're embarrassing yourself. The ps4 CPU is better in some ways and worse in some ways in regards to a comparison to the cell, and it isn't just "graphics" - floating point performance matters, other wise you wouldn't constantly be harping on the wii u's CPU for THE SAME DEFICIENCIES in comparison to last gen's PPEs.

Keep the insult for yourself. What the purpose to point out ps3 cpu overtake ps4 cpu in the floating point, for the general cpu raw performance ? Doesn't reverse how general better is the ps4 cpu compared the cell, actually.

 

[sörine]

Who dares without any kinda of logic. And you continue in this path. I think the games were a quite evident proof but whatever.

Yes, games like NFSMW, Sonic Racing Transformed, Bayonetta 1, Trine 2, Project Cars...

 

[wigwag85]

A new hardware should handle multiplat better to a five older machine, without any problem of cost or know-how. It's the minimum expected from the developers. The anomaly it's Nintendo here.

What is the difference between the Wii U and the other consoles, in terms of architecture?

 

[pinkurocket]

While visuals can always improve, in a decade you will look back on old games and be hard pressed to tell the difference. Except Wii u games will have framerates over 25fps.

Visual issues like aliasing and whatnot are not the be all and end all. Performance counts too, as well as pretty graphics.

That's right, that is where Nintendo deserves a lot of praise. Putting performance as one of the most important factors.

 

[BigTnaples]

How can you say that? It was offscreen footage at a distance from an early build.

Why would anyone think that Nintendo was going to have this gigantic Zelda information blowout at the VGAs? Of course they're going to use the bigger stage at E3 to have the huge coming out party.

Yeah, off screen world scale demonstrations have absolutely killed this game for me. I may never see in color again either.

This is really silly. Even with the footage being off screen, it was obvious that the graphics hadn't been downgraded. Look at the gifs someone put on the last page.

Plus, as I'm sure others will point out there's no way you can make any big judgement about the gameplay from that video. It's still a year away and they're obviously not going to be able to, or even want to, show anything significant gameplay wise.

All the VGA footage was meant to do was to give Geoff something good and please the fans since we hadn't seen anything since E3.

It literally looks the same.
As for the gameplay,

Off screen demo with the sole purpose being to show us how big the world is. Jumping to conclusions.

Whoah. Really stirred you guys up.


I fully agree the game could be amazing a ways off from now. A year is a very long time Dev wise. And I'll be the first to say that when people attack Halo 5 or Uncharted. So the same applies here.

Just for me, the initial trailer had a hint of that "Magic" that I think LoZ lost since the 64 days. (Arguable exemption being TWW). The offscreen demo didn't give me that impression. Yes I understand what the demonstration was supposed to demonstrate, but even so it lowers my hype for he game.

Good thing hype is dynamic and can rise and fall with every new showing.

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

So uhm question mark ? has this thread derailed to PS3/360 vs WiiU ?

 

[ninjablade]

GRITTY BROWN AND MUTED COLOURS
Like this thread is saying,the colourful artstyle brings everything to life and at 60 FPS
Both those games have heavy framerate loss.

Its not that the PS3 and X360 had bad visuals, it was just boring static stuff. Nintendo is doing more with less.

I thought this thread was about praising the wiiu hardware. gow3 averages around 40fps, while gow judgement is a solid 30fps.

 

[omonimo]

Yes, games like NFSMW, Sonic Racing Transformed, Bayonetta 1, Trine 2, Project Cars...

If you look better to those games, they are quite cpu easy.

 

[ninjablade]

So uhm question mark ? has this thread derailed to PS3/360 vs WiiU ?

It's a thread about wiiu hardware and graphics, naturally it's gonna be compared to other consoles.

 

[cRIPticon]

A new hardware should handle multiplat better to a five older machine, without any problem of cost or know-how. It's the minimum expected from the developers. The anomaly it's Nintendo here.

Oh, so you want everyone to produce exactly the same machine? Got it. Problem solved everybody!

Seriously, I could then state that any engine developer should make their engine instantly and dynamically scalable, replacing dynamic lighting for baked, etc. so that it runs seamlessly on every modern platform without compromise.

That is not how this works. Multiplatform will always have issues until we get to one architecture, one path, one method, etc. Oh, and when that day comes, I leave the computer industry (HINT: It won't ever come to that)

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

It's a thread about wiiu hardware and graphics, naturally it's gonna be compared to other consoles.

Yeah I understand the point of view but I thought this thread was about praising WiiU Games graphic not comparing it to the PS3/360. but hey who gives a damn, lets continue derailing the thread.

 

[omonimo]

Oh, so you want everyone to produce exactly the same machine? Got it. Problem solved everybody!

Seriously, I could then state that any engine developer should make their engine instantly and dynamically scalable, replacing dynamic lighting for baked, etc. so that it runs seamlessly on every modern platform without compromise.

That is not how this works. Multiplatform will always have issues until we get to one architecture, one path, one method, etc. Oh, and when that day comes, I leave the computer industry (HINT: It won't ever come to that)

I don't said such things. I said normally a new hardware can handle the graphic of the past console without sacrifice.

 

[BigTnaples]

Yeah I understand the point of view but I thought this thread was about praising WiiU Games graphic not comparing it to the PS3/360. but hey who gives a damn, lets continue derailing the thread.

It's not a derail... It's very much on topic.

OP says the WiiU produces amazing visuals for the hardware.

Other people disagreeing and evidencing superior/similar graphics from 8 year old hardware is a direct response to the OP's assertion.


Just because you don't like the way a conversation goes doesn't make it a derail...

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

That's just an assumption. Who knows what gameplay features may have been cut due to hardware limitations.

Doubtless there's very few games in modern development that don't have to make that kind of sacrifice, somewhere, on any hardware.

I dunno, Nintendo's game design doesn't usually revolve around super high tech engines that require big amounts of power. It's more natural progressions in level design. If you look at 2D and 3D Mario, the actual gameplay systems are extremely similar. The difference between the Wii U and Xbone isn't going to allow some revolutionary new gameplay element if Mario still controls the same now as he did in SMB1 or SM64.

 

[LCGeek]

The same thing could be said for 360/ps3, which are 8 year old console's that actually have games with better graphics. so why does the wiiu hardware deserve praise again?

8 year old consoles with devs who spent 8 years with them vs a system of a similar power spec with how much familiarity by the same devs?

The WiiU problem isn't it's power it's expecting devs/publishers who have done nothing on nintendo platforms worth remembering to somehow make a better product.

omonimo project cars is cpu heavy considering its a sim and needs to do certain things with the cpu not the gpu. Not only that your point about 5 year hardware is off. The age of hardware doesn't determine how well it will exploited. If devs go in with the same lackluster skillsets and don't want to spend time properly porting with hardware that is relatively in the same range no amount of smart architecture design will overcome that. Its like people forget that during the last gen crap ports didn't exist between the hd twins when the ps3 should have better performance but didn't. Unless you have much better hardware you need port properly or bad result will ensue.

 

[Boy Wander]

2012 just called. It wants its WUST thread back.

 

[geordiemp]

Well this is absurd. It's not like console manufacturers are insulated from all other hardware manufacturers. The PS4 is the most off the shelf console we've probably ever had. You think Nintendo couldn't have bought some fairly uncustomized CPUs and GPUs and slapped them together?

Nintendo's problem with power is their exotic hardware that doesn't have anywhere near as many people researching and developing it and their refusal to move away from this hardware in order to keep backwards compatibility.

Don't agree, Nintendo's problem is they grew to like hardware profit too much during last gen Wii and wanted to make lots of money of hardware this gen as well.

They could easily make a Ps4, sure AMD would bang up a FX CPU and say a 7870 GPU on a board off the shelf with lower clock settings and nice cooling. Problem is Nintendo would not make money on the console so they look for 'special features' or gimmicks depending on your viewpoint.

Ps4 and Xb1 are just lowish power off shelf PC's in a box, with both Sony and MS getting AMD to integrate CPU and GPU silicon to make a little bit of money at RSP.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

Would love to see a Sonic All-Star Racing Transformed on either PS4 or Xbox one. It would eat Mario Kart's lunch. Nintendo keeps the games very simple. Simple gameplay and simple graphics. It's not impressive that they are producing 60fps games. That should be expected going with such a simple approach.

Wipeout on PS3 is more impressive to me than Mario Kart. Imagine how impressive a Wipeout would be on PS4.

I'd like to see Nintendo go bolder on hardware next time around.

 

[ninjablade]

Oh, so you want everyone to produce exactly the same machine? Got it. Problem solved everybody!

Seriously, I could then state that any engine developer should make their engine instantly and dynamically scalable, replacing dynamic lighting for baked, etc. so that it runs seamlessly on every modern platform without compromise.

That is not how this works. Multiplatform will always have issues until we get to one architecture, one path, one method, etc. Oh, and when that day comes, I leave the computer industry (HINT: It won't ever come to that)

The main problem with Multiplatform games is wiiu specs. literally nobody expected 176 gflops gpu, with 1 gb of slow ram, and a weak cpu, with no true simd support.

 

[cRIPticon]

I don't said such things. I said normally a new hardware can handle the graphic of the past console without sacrifice.

And show me what cross platform game from the PS3 or XB360 to the WiiU demonstrates that. Please?

 

[sörine]

If you look better to those games, they are quite cpu easy.

Actually it's more they're GPU heavy. Trine 2's deferred lighting engine necessitated dynamic resolution on PS360 while the Wii U version was easily locked at 720p. And this from a tiny indie studio at launch. Project Cars grew so advanced that it was simply beyond DX9 class hardware and so PS360 were dropped while Wii U was still doable on the low end (DX10.1 equivalent).

Outside launch, most Wii U ports have been pretty comparable to PS3 and 360. Part of that is the dev environment maturing, part is devs becoming more familiar with the hardware, part is actually publishers dropping out so the few ports it does get tend to come from smaller and maybe more passionate studios selfpublushing digitally. Remove launch window and how many subpar Wii U ports are there really these days?

 

[arnoldocastillo2003]

It's not a derail... It's very much on topic.

OP says the WiiU produces amazing visuals for the hardware.

Other people disagreeing and evidencing superior/similar graphics from 8 year old hardware is a direct response to the OP's assertion.


Just because you don't like the way a conversation goes doesn't make it a derail...

Ok sir you have my attention, I didn't look at it in that way so ok my bad, so if we are going in this way I think that everybody knows that the PS3 and 360 produced better graphics than the WiiU, its rather easy because of "The Last Of Us" >_<

 

[AstroNut325]

Do the games look good? Yes.
Do they show a substantial jump from PS360? No.
Nintendo does not live in a vacuum. They are being judged relative to what the competition is offering. That's probably why some people feel the thread has been derailed.

 

[Papacheeks]

"Every time a Wii U appreciation thread get's made it all turns to shit".

It's funny because I understand how people feel about Nintendo and the games they've had currently. There Nintendo games are always going to be quality. Glad people are enjoying them.

But don't get your panties in a twist when other people put their 2 cent's in, about how Nintendo has been developing their games and what not.

I don't see appreciation threads for PS4 in the same light as Wii U.

I've seen so many Appreciation threads, it all reads Wii U owner validation to me.

And the threads i'v seen like these:http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=840632&highlight=


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=819529&highlight=

There are many more but a lot of them like one above have been closed and people were banned.

Stay Toasty!

 

[King Cobra]

GRITTY BROWN AND MUTED COLOURS
Like this thread is saying,the colourful artstyle brings everything to life and at 60 FPS
Both those games have heavy framerate loss.

Its not that the PS3 and X360 had bad visuals, it was just boring static stuff. Nintendo is doing more with less.

So having a clown throw up colors on a canvas is better? It's one thing to be able to set the saturation to the max on a game it' another to actually put time into the details of a level and characters. Every Wii U game that has been touted as graphically amazing has the most simplistic character models with the most basic mapping for levels and doesn't look like anything that couldn't be done on the Vita. Viva Pinata is more on par with what Nintendo makes and it looks way better and has more detail to it's design than what I've seen on the Wii U.

The reason these types of threads go to crap is because there is a segment of GAF that can't take it when people say that Wii U is fully capable of producing awesome visuals. So then they have to meticulously criticize every Wii U screenshot and be obtuse about everything, as if refusing to admit that Wii U games can be very pretty even on relatively (to PS4 and Bone) weak hardware. People enjoying visuals of many Wii U games is not a knock to PS4 or XBone and it's nothing to be upset about!

When all is said and done, we'll see much better visuals from the Wii U than anything the PS360 could ever do. Sure because the Wii U's infrastructure is different, PS360 ports don't perform as well (unless the dev puts in some effort like we saw with Need for Speed and Bayonetta), but that was the same issue of PS360 games when 360 was the lead platform.

The issue is that people tout Nintendo has some Wizard company that is pulling magic out their hats when their games are graphcially basic and artistically repetitive, you can say clamour gritty grey and brown about next gen consoles but making games that look like they were designed by lisa frank isn't exactly talent.

 

[Actual]

I don't understand why people give Driveclub such a hard time...
I absolutely loved the handling in the game. It felt like PGR, but on country roads instead of city roads.

If we just ignore the whole graphics topic for Driveclub, I still feel like it's a good driving game. I wonder if people maybe just haven't played it? As a long time racing fan, I had an absolute blast just driving the cars in Driveclub...

 

[Michanical]

While visuals can always improve, in a decade you will look back on old games and be hard pressed to tell the difference. Except Wii u games will have framerates over 25fps.

Visual issues like aliasing and whatnot are not the be all and end all. Performance counts too, as well as pretty graphics.

This is so true. Personally, I've never had an issue overlooking bad IQ on older games as I've had most major consoles since the NES and still like playing older games. I was nervous to show my girlfriend Super Mario Galaxy since the game would have have noticeable aliasing on our HD TV, and I was worried it would be too distracting or ugly.

I was wrong. My girlfriend loves the game and some combination of the Wii U upscaler, the art direction, or something else makes the game look spectacular. It's a little fuzzy in the distance and the aliasing is noticeable if you are looking for it, but for the most part the resolution isn't factor for our enjoyment.

I'm excited to see the next 3D Mario (remaster or not) in HD!

 

[Blunoise]

I love my Wii u and maybe becuz iam a nintendo fan that loves fun games. although i have a PS4 playing destiny and dragon age, i just dont see myslef wow by the graphics like everyone else thinks.maybe becuz graphics is the least important thing for me in games, i rather have a good art direction because that shows the imitation of the artist portrayal, than instead just using computer pecs

 

[Ninja Dom]

So ninjablade, are you not appreciative of the graphics we've seen on Nintendo's Wii U games so far? Are you saying they're bad graphics or nothing to be impressed about?

 

[marc^o^]

Wii U graphics in Mario Kart 8 made a friend of mine who never owned a Nintendo console buy one few months ago. Poischich, ex Gamekult chief editor who's notorious for mocking Wii and Wii U since day one, just tweeted he bought a Wii U with Smash and MK8.

Wii U has tons of problems, no third parties, no mass market price, tons of competition, slow sales as a result.

But it's hard to deny Nintendo games in HD are among the most eye catching titles on the market. Blame the colors that pop up, the charm of the characters, the framerate or the polish behind every little details. Despite what can be found on other systems, Wii U games manage to be extremely pleasing to watch.

I think that's a surprise for many people who wouldn’t have thought that.

 

[ninjablade]

So ninjablade, are you not appreciative of the graphics we've seen on Nintendo's Wii U games so far? Are you saying they're bad graphics or nothing to be impressed about?

Graphics are nice looking, but nothing impressive, they still don't match the best looking ps3/360 games. I wouldn't call them ugly, just nice looking games.

 

[nOoblet16]

Can we please stop pretending that PS360 games were "all brown and grey" ?
Most tittles released past the second wave were very colourful, even Killzone 2 which gets called out for being brown and grey was actually very rarely even using brown and grey outside of few maps/levels and was quite colourful.

And let's not forget that there were games like ilomilo, De Blob, Banjo, Puppeteer, Bastion, Baird, Ratchet and Clank, 3D dot heroes, Lego games, Borderlands, Prince of Persia 2008, Little big planet, Ni no Kuni for those who want the cute or super vibrant graphics.

 

[Papacheeks]

Here are some examples from PS3 that are able to produce similar impressions as Wii U games by using art style and color:

 

[*Splinter]

Sorry, but I can't agree. It looks 'nice' but it's also super unambitious and makes everything look like it's made of play dough... SM3DW especially looks very bland and (in graphics and more generally) is the most overrated game I've ever played.

You can have bright colours and still be interesting to look at. I won't post screenshots as I'm on mobile but LittleBigPlanet3 looks absolutely stunning and puts a lot of Nintendo's recent output to shame (in my opinion)

 

[UrbanRats]

Sorry, but I can't agree. It looks 'nice' but it's also super unambitious and makes everything look like it's made of play dough... SM3DW especially looks very bland and (even more generally) is the most overrated game I've ever played.

You can have bright colours and still be interesting to look at. I won't post screenshots as I'm on mobile but LittleBigPlanet3 looks absolutely stunning and puts a lot of Nintendo's recent output to shame (in my opinion)

Really now.. "to shame", no less?

 

[LCGeek]

So having a clown throw up colors on a canvas is better? It's one thing to be able to set the saturation to the max on a game it' another to actually put time into the details of a level and characters. Every Wii U game that has been touted as graphically amazing has the most simplistic character models with the most basic mapping for levels and doesn't look like anything that couldn't be done on the Vita. Viva Pinata is more on par with what Nintendo makes and it looks way better and has more detail to it's design than what I've seen on the Wii U.

Except vita is a handheld rendering games at lower res so no not in any sense same for the scale of some games. Just from certain titles say like most wanted we can clearly see the jump from that to PS3/360 to Wii if it's not clear to you bow out cause your eyes need to be checked.

Viva Pinanta lighting isn't better than what is being deployed in some of the more modern engines. Poly wise it competes with certain titles but no way does it compare to MK8 which just scope wise trounces anything I saw in the title. Outside of the texturing the game isn't better than certain wii titles being mentioned in thread. To you it might be better doesn't change what is actually going on or the fact some don't agree.

 

[Michanical]

The issue is that people tout Nintendo has some Wizard company that is pulling magic out their hats when their games are graphcially basic and artistically repetitive, you can say clamour gritty grey and brown about next gen consoles but making games that look like they were designed by lisa frank isn't exactly talent.

Comparing Nintendo's art design to Lisa Frank says more about you than it does about Nintendo: Either you lack the capacity to perceive art direction or you are just trying to be insulting by exaggerating.

Man, I wish I had a Lisa Frank trapper keeper that looked like this:

 

[Oppo]

I'd like to see a head to head with the iPad. I bet it would be really close visually. Maybe even in the iPads favour if you count that absurd retina resolution.