Expect Netflix in Canada to lose half their subscribers within the year.
But at the same time, I've gotta laugh at all those profiteers buying up DNS numbers to charge for access to US Netflix.
Sony Pictures mad at Netflixs failure to block overseas VPN users
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Expect Netflix in Canada to lose half their subscribers within the year.
But at the same time, I've gotta laugh at all those profiteers buying up DNS numbers to charge for access to US Netflix.
All you can eat Shortland St, just $79.99 per month!
Marty Chinn
Member
Netflix pays for US rights. They don't pay for worldwide rights. Netflix has basic checks. Sony is asking that Netflix make more if an effort to stop it rather than turning a blind eye. Netflix knows people are watching outside the US and they take advantage of it. They could do things like refuse foreign credit cards with foreign billing addresses. Sony even states they know you can't stop it completely. They just want Netflix to at least make some effort.
Netflix pays a flat fee for the region.
LiquidSolid
Member
Is it madness though? Netflix pays the studios a fixed licensing fee for their content, so they get the same amount of money regardless. The movie studios aren't seeing a cent of that money VPN users are paying Netflix.
I can sympathise with the users but ultimately, the responsibility is on Netflix to fix their own shit and actually make their international offerings worthwhile.
You assume Netflix would be okay with per view fees. They aren't. The alternative to the fixed fee is not being on Netflix at all.
No, it's Sony's fault, sorry. Blaming Netflix for people purchasing shit from outside regions is stupid. Blaming anyone other than the people who have no fucking idea how the world works is not correct. Sony fucked themselves, and now they have to deal with that. Presumably they know how the fucking internet works, and Netlifx would cop a lot of heat if people who were from the US couldn't access their content while they travel. Sony fucked up with accepting the original flat fee by region if they were worried about this. I don't use Netflix so I am struggling to care if prices go up.
No I didn't assume that, I said Sony should have done that. Not the same thing. If Sony were unhappy with the deal they should have withdrawn from it. If what they needed was something Netflix wouldn't accept they should have refused to license.
A lot of that is on content licensors though as well, they splinter their content over different exclusive deals in different countries, it fucks anyone trying to just use one or two services.
Sony wants more money, they want Netflix to pay for worldwide rights and whatnot. Meanwhile Netflix and VPN services lose subscribers.
Movie and television rights are tied up in a huge, byzantine mess from the days when distributing media internationally was excessively prohibitive for the studios. Theatre distribution and television broadcast was, and is, usually done by different companies in each and every country. Internet rights are generally included with those rights, otherwise what's the point?
For Canada alone, all the distribution rights for practically everything are owned by completely different companies than they are in the US. All of NBC's shows, for example, may be split up amongst three different networks up here, and each has to be negotiated individually. Want SNL? Talk to Shaw (Global). If Shaw doesn't wanna play ball, then no SNL. Community? Gotta ask Rogers (Citytv). Not to mention the fact that rights-holders for those shows, which tend to be big cable/telecom companies, are starting their own Netflix-style services, so Netlix has zero chance of getting them here anyway.
Until the day when studios can bypass television networks completely, and distribute directly to theatres on their own, it's going to continue to be a massive mess.
I assume Sony would rather have one of a hundred VPN users buy their movie (at a later date and needlessly high price) than have Netflix (and VPN services) make some more money. That is without taking into account that they might lose more money because local media companies pay less for the rights for shows/movies. Of course it's also possible they just want simply want more money from Netflix.
Maybe they'd prefer if you used torrents? Sounds like most companies want to whine a lot about pirated content but don't want to provide the services and releases on time that people are demanding and in a lot of cases willing to pay for. It's a connected world and putting up virtual fences is doomed to fail.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Lol no they want only Americans to watch their show and business strategy is too local-minded to make it available in other countries. Everyone outside the US knows the drill, this is nothing new. It's not just Netflix where this happens e.g. video game release dates and other technology release dates. So many companies out there for whatever reason don't want non-American money.
Correct.
So the problem is Sony. Not Netflix.
If Sony thinks that they aren't getting enough money from Netflix then they need to re-negotiate their deal or pull their content. Simple.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
So netflix is helping welcome piracy, got it.
That fee was most likely negotiated on a regional basis and takes into consideration the fees and agreements that Sony and other studios have negotiated with others to create and distribute the media in the first place.
Like what jstripes posted, dealing with the rest of the world and even Canada is indeed a huge mess. But if Netflix secured those rights they wouldn't have to deal with this shit. Netflix and the customer is who really hurts here because Sony doesn't need subs
Sparkedglory
Member
Playstation really is the only part of Sony that has any clue what they're doing aren't they?
The problem isn't Sony, but Sony is part of the problem.
It's that rights are tied up differently with countless entities in each country, and each of them want the local share they're contractually entitled to. Netflix has to successfully negotiate every single library title in every single country they operate in.
Much more detailed version of the point I was making, thanks.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
That's what I liked about Netflix. It along with services like Spotify andd Audible etc. make it feel like a "post-piracy" era of the Internet. They used the internet to circumvent these silly laws.
But Netflix already have in place measures to block people from getting content they aren't entitled to.
I'm able to go overseas and purchase legal and illegal copies of movies and shows that aren't available in my country or only available through a different distributor but no one seems to care about that.
Seems because Netflix do it then it's a problem?
Just_myles
Member
Well, that's licensing agreements 101. Each country Netflix operates in, they have to have an agreement.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
It's money. Sony (and others I'm sure) are thinking why are Netflix allowed to not pay for licensing in other territories and benefit from people paying subs in those countries because they know they'll just use VPNs.
Be mad at Netflix. They're the ones purposefully and knowlingly cheaping out.
Kabuki Waq
Member
I love the way people are straight up threatening to steal in this thread.
But they aren't operating in my country.
And yeah this feels like we're about to have our digital streaming era snuffed out and neutered before it even started.
I happily pay my tenner a month for Netflix. Hell I pay a tenner a month for Hulu+ purely to save me the inconvenience of downloading TDS and Colbert and now Colbert isn't even on anymore!
I feel good paying for my streaming media at the current price point but if it all goes to shit I'll have to scurry back to torrent sites with my tail between my leg.
Not steal, download a copy of an episode of a TV show that isn't available in my country. Morally speaking I'd still feel like a virgin.
1 hour ago...
http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/03/netflix-clamps-down-on-vpns/
the only active blocking i know is forcing google dns on android but there is a way around that.. use a older apk
http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/03/netflix-clamps-down-on-vpns/
the only active blocking i know is forcing google dns on android but there is a way around that.. use a older apk
Netflix have in place measures to block access to people that aren't entitled to it
Why would I be mad at them? They provide me a good service at an excellent price (considering my location)
And if it wasn't for Netflix then Sony would get even less money from the likes of me as I wouldn't purchase any of their content available through their distributor here
As I said before. If Sony think that they are selling their content to Netflix too cheap, then re-negotiate or pull their content
Except they totally do care about foreign imports. There is a reason that region lock on DVDs, Blu-rays, games etc because they care about distribution rights. See Lik Sang.
To further clarify, shows and movies "missing" on a certain country's local Netflix would typically fall into these categories:
- The local rights-holder said no.
- The local rights-holder was too demanding.
- The local rights are tied up in some ugly legal mess*, or the holder can't be reached.
- The local rights simply aren't owned by anyone here, which would fall back to Netflix having to acquire the rights themselves, which in itself may not be worth it.
This is also why some major shows and movies are available on Netflix Canada, but not available on Netflix US.
*The 1960s Batman TV series took over a decade to negotiate/consolidate DVD/Digital rights for simply for the US alone. It was released for the first time ever last month.
They do, but they don't work very well. That's why Sony (and presumably other studios) are upset.
- The local rights-holder said no.
- The local rights-holder was too demanding.
- The local rights are tied up in some ugly legal mess*, or the holder can't be reached.
- The local rights simply aren't owned by anyone here, which would fall back to Netflix having to acquire the rights themselves, which in itself may not be worth it.
This is also why some major shows and movies are available on Netflix Canada, but not available on Netflix US.
*The 1960s Batman TV series took over a decade to negotiate/consolidate DVD/Digital rights for simply for the US alone. It was released for the first time ever last month.
They do, but they don't work very well. That's why Sony (and presumably other studios) are upset.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Netflix have blocked specific dns codes before. I've had to change my dns a few times, but it strikes me as netflix acting to shut up the studious but not really caring about stopping any alternatives when they pop up (until the studious complain again).
Considering that Netflix has been shelling out money left and right to secure content for their service, I doubt they are the ones that are "cheaping" out. If anything, it is the media companies not playing ball (which they are entitled too, it is their content).
All easy to work around and everyone complains (legitimate and illegitimate users) about those measures
They work as well as the methods listed above.
Again, Sony need to fix their model.
Dark Ninja
Member
They are already classified as VPN Pirates why not go full Pirate
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
That entirely depends on how the territorial licences for the IP are distributed. In this case I'd take the implication that Sony Pictures are the owners of the IP and are controlling its licensing. But you may be right that in some circumstances the IP is exclusively licensed to a media company in x territory and they are given the right (within that contract) to sub-license the IP to others.
They've started blocking access from my Aus PSN account on my PS3 as well but not my PS4 yet luckily.
yellow submarine
Member
Wait till you guys find out when they start restricting 720p/1080p feeds of certain movies to non-PC devices (i.e. only allow HD on things that have DRM chips like PS4/Xbone/iPhones etc.)
TwiztidElf
Member
Once again, a major global corporation that is quite happy to exploit free trade globalism for it's own purposes, but then throws up trade barriers against consumers.
The hypocrisy makes me sick. Fuck you Sony.
The hypocrisy makes me sick. Fuck you Sony.
For you the problem is "Sony", but the problem actually looks more like this:
Not sure what you're posting there to be honest.
My position is this
Sony, and all content creators, have the right to sell their content how they like.
But they need to understand that if they sell their content in one location for a low price, available from a certain time and through many different methods and then they decide to not release that content in another location for many months or years later, then sell it at a huge mark-up and only available 1 way then of course if the technology exists for those getting the rough end of the stick will find other ways to get the content. Legally (Netflix for example) and illegally (Torrents, pirated DVDS for example).
The problem is a distribution one. We live in a connected world, the content creators can either work with that and maximise their reach or not and annoy the public
It's not a case of cheaping out, it's that a lot of content had digital rights wrapped up in international broadcast rights so for specific regions only certain content is actually on the market to make a deal for. So for instance if the studio sold the broadcast rights to a show say Arrow to Sky in the UK then that deal typically includes exclusive streaming rights for that region as well. So only Sky can stream it to UK based viewers. That's changing a bit as more of premium is being placed on the streaming rights.
They're gonna piss off the youth demographic with that because teens and college students tend to watch Netflix on their laptops.
DRM is an enitirely different mess than international rights, and doing this is going to have an actual 0% impact on piracy.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
If you are outside of the US and you are viewing US content that's illegal as you are viewing content you have not contractually paid for under Netflix's terms of service.
Your argument amounts to one of 'it's inconvenient for us to get content legally so we'll get it illegally thanks'. Do what you want but don't dress it up in some sort of nobility or other excuse based on the fact that you should be entitled to the content.
No I completely understand that, but regardless of who the IP rights have been licensed (or sub licensed) to it is ordinarily (at least the case in the UK) up to the IP right holder to take action if it is being infringed, or at least it is common they have some involvement as the primary owners of the IP.
If they want their content broadcast on TV or shown in theatres, no, it's not as simple as that. They'd have to unbundle the streaming rights, but that's gonna be a very hard sell because streaming rights can undermine broadcast/distribution rights. Otherwise, they'd have to set up broadcast and distribution themselves in each and every country, which is actually impossible.
"I want it this way, so it should be this way" isn't how things in this world work.
As I said, until broadcast and cable TV is dead, and theatres get films directly from studios, we're gonna be in this mess. And there's plenty of powerful elements preventing that from happening. Even then, existing rights may not expire for decades.
AzureSkies
Member
Blocked from viewing Netflix in Canada using Unblock-Us on the PS4, but works perfectly fine on PS3 and 360.
On the other hand, Canadian Netflix has been greatly improving, so I've been using it more and more.
On the other hand, Canadian Netflix has been greatly improving, so I've been using it more and more.
RandyBobandy
Banned
Still works on XB1 for what it's worth
Khaos_Knight
Banned
Dafuq?
Just let them give you their money and shut the fuck up Sony.
Just let them give you their money and shut the fuck up Sony.
I can't wait for Bell's "CraveTV" and Rogers' "Shomi" to have Apple TV support so I can try them out and see if they fill in the gaps enough.
You are going to have a hard time convincing anyone that paying a company for a product is illegal just because of where you live (embargoes and state secrets aside, of course). If a person in... Namibia pays Netflix and uses a vpn to watch a tv show, what law have they broken?
It may be technically illegal in some countries, it may not be, but to the average person it will be a hard sell convincing them they are actually breaking a law.
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