Ah, very classy response. How can you defend the same abhorrent behavior done by pro-GG people? This type of behaviour isn't going to help the industry, especially with your ignorant response.
"I have...letters from dozens of women who've abandoned their dream" (Brianna Wu)
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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Ah, very classy response. How can you defend the same abhorrent behavior done by pro-GG people? This type of behaviour isn't going to help the industry, especially with your ignorant response.
SolicitorPirate
Member
It's a shame that Brianna makes it only worse for women in the industry by propagating toxicity within' the gaming community.
If we want to start to turn this around we really can't shit like this happening it really isn't helping the cause whatsoever.
Since proof will be asked for:
Yeah, because amidst all the death threats and harassment, that's the real toxicity. You people fucking disgust me.
"You people"? LOL
I'm just saying it's not helping, yet I'm grouped in with pro-GG people? Are you serious?
This is why I like to stay out of this, both sides are just a headache.
Dead serious.
It's a shame that Brianna makes it only worse for women in the industry by propagating toxicity within' the gaming community.
If we want to start to turn this around we really can't shit like this happening it really isn't helping the cause whatsoever.
Since proof will be asked for:
I can't tell if you are serious.
Edit: Oh you are. I guess it is time to bring back the bingo piece.
It's a shame that Brianna makes it only worse for women in the industry by propagating toxicity within' the gaming community.
If we want to start to turn this around we really can't shit like this happening it really isn't helping the cause whatsoever.
Since proof will be asked for:
How is this picture an example of being toxic exactly? Her game's forums were being trolled like crazy so she made a sarcastic thread about it. Am I missing something here?
Dr. Buni
Member
For some reason, those people (if you can call them people) think women will steal their hobby from them. The presence of women in the industry threatens them.
I edited my response because I thought I was being too harsh, but now I realize I wasn't.
Please explain to me how the fuck I'm promoting the threats, defamation, and emotional abuse shithead video game fans are putting innocent people through.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Since proof will be asked for:
What am I even looking at here? She herself posted a topic asking if she's a terrible person?
Anton Sugar
Member
It's a shame that Brianna makes it only worse for women in the industry by propagating toxicity within' the gaming community.
If we want to start to turn this around we really can't shit like this happening it really isn't helping the cause whatsoever.
Since proof will be asked for:
First, I have no idea what this image is. spacekatgal=Brianna?
Second, how is this toxic, exactly? She may be feeding the trolls, but she's not saying anything like "men suck" "all men are rapists", etc. If anything, she's just exposing trolls.
How does her post make gaming worse for women, exactly?
ShockingAlberto
Member
I mean
I hope I don't offend anyone or blow anyone's mind by saying this, but, gamers on the internet are kind of unsocial nerds. And unsocial nerds generally don't get many girls usually; or, rather, they never build up the social skills necessary to understand rejection and not fear it as the end of the world.
So this leads to years of frustration, especially through puberty and the high school years, and that frustration leads to a resentment of women. They're not giving up the one thing they want (sex) and it must be because they enjoy being mistreated by jerks and not nice guys like me.
So the Zoe Quinn story comes out which, even if it were true, never tied anything she did to good coverage, and years of frustration came out at once for these people. Here was a smoking gun that proved women use sex for their own agendas, and for video games at that! Video games are sacred and someone who makes a shitty non-game about depression is using her vagina to make it bigger, well, I won't allow that.
It didn't really matter that it wasn't true. They were angry. They had a target. And then more targets. And as more people started going "No, what you're doing is terrible, stop it," they just got further entrenched and defensive and angry.
What remains are definitely the most hardcore, angry extremists, yeah, but it always started out as an extreme movement and only got worse as it went along.
shacklesmcgee
Member
How you managed to read the article about Brianna Wu being harassed, and came away with "But she instigated it that one time, I'll show everyone!" is why you are grouped with the pro GG people
SolicitorPirate
Member
False equivalence and two sides fallacy? "You people," was exactly right.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Another good thing about these threads is they weed out certain people. Fewer and fewer in each successive thread.
I believe, despite the seriousness of this situation, that people are overemphasizing the public ramification this had. I am doubtful most of the world knows (nor cares sadly) about gamer-gate. As such, it wouldn't have had any affect, positive or negative, on the term "gamer".
She quickly deleted it after being called out? She is baiting for more shitty responses? I mean it's only furthering the shit going on with this whole situation.
I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. I'm saying it ISN'T HELPING THE CAUSE. If you try to bait toxic behaviour, it isn't helping. It is just promoting more assholes to come out of the woodwork to support pro-gg people.
What did her post serve other than to breed asshole comments and more death threats, douchebag responses and abhorrent behaviour. Want to make a point, this isn't helping it. That's all I'm saying.
It feels like you are grouping me in with a fucked up group, which I have no part in nor do I want to be associated with. It's honestly offensive. Just because someone comes up with a differing opinion doesn't mean he/she is somehow associated with pro-gg assholes.
It was more of a response to some of the comments made in this thread. Like I said above, people can have differing opinions and not be part of some fucked up "group". Do you just label everyone that disagrees with you?
Talking about people who make gaming worse for women is the real... er... making gaming worse for women. Or something.
Marty Chinn
Member
II trust that it is but at the same time I have a young daughter who is just starting out in gaming and I work in the game industry so foo her sake I do want to understand what's going on.
Well the first I heard about it was from that topic. So even if it was just an excuse, it's the perception for many as how it started. Even if it was an excuse, I'd still like to know how it transformed from that to hating women. The transition makes no sense to me.
It made mainstream news, CNN, Time, etc. It definitely had an effect.
ShinMaruku
Member
Any 'side' is bullshit is what I am saying. And you are looking at that rather than the other part of changing cultural norms and influence society so things like this fade into the background.
ShockingAlberto
Member
A Law & Order episode about it just ended like ten minutes ago
There was no transition. They still claim it's about ethics in games journalism.
Marty Chinn
Member
Thanks for this explanation. This is the first one I've read that clearly tells me what's going on and why.
There was a fantastic post by a user here on GAF about many of the false claims pro-GG people made, it was in the old gamergate thread and I don't have a link to it.
There are also some good links (wikipedia is a good starting point - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy) you can easily google to get a better understanding, of course stay away from the obvious one-sided pro-gg argument blogs, those are just a cesspool.
There are already entire internet communities obsessed with hurting her. Nothing she says will change their opinions of her because their minds are already made.
For once, I'm not sure Law and Order SVU will be able to be more ludicrous than the real thing.
EDIT
Never mind.
So much grossness. I feel like we're living in a new Jim Crow era of internet lynchings of outspoken women and their defenders. And just like segregationists, GGers claim they're just defending "tradition" and a "way of life."
I hope that men in development and publishing will grow a pair and stand up to these violent, misogynist bullies. The few women that are in the industry have put the men to shame. The lack of action is sullying the entire industry at a moment when the industry had just been gaining widespread visibility from the rest of the world. Now gaming looks again like it's filled with exactly the stereotype that many of us had grown up resisting and doing our best to disprove. Now, much of that work has been set back 2-3 decades. More, actually, if you consider how long it will take just to get back to where we were. I sincerely hope we'll soon see a very large, concerted effort around the world to finally stand up to these hateful bullies who hide behind false claims to "ethics" and "objectivity." It's disgusting. And to be perfectly honest, I spend a lot less time in these forums now because of all the nastiness from GGers that circulates here.
We can only hope that with so many young women deciding not to carry gaming deeper into their lives, the few who do remain will be that much more important and precious in the coming years. That's a lot of pressure, but thankfully, we have some impressive models for them to follow.
I hope that men in development and publishing will grow a pair and stand up to these violent, misogynist bullies. The few women that are in the industry have put the men to shame. The lack of action is sullying the entire industry at a moment when the industry had just been gaining widespread visibility from the rest of the world. Now gaming looks again like it's filled with exactly the stereotype that many of us had grown up resisting and doing our best to disprove. Now, much of that work has been set back 2-3 decades. More, actually, if you consider how long it will take just to get back to where we were. I sincerely hope we'll soon see a very large, concerted effort around the world to finally stand up to these hateful bullies who hide behind false claims to "ethics" and "objectivity." It's disgusting. And to be perfectly honest, I spend a lot less time in these forums now because of all the nastiness from GGers that circulates here.
We can only hope that with so many young women deciding not to carry gaming deeper into their lives, the few who do remain will be that much more important and precious in the coming years. That's a lot of pressure, but thankfully, we have some impressive models for them to follow.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The gaming industry is actually kind of fascinating
There's this one target demographic on which the industry doted like a mother, saying "It's all about you, whatever you want, you'll get, there's no one more important in the world."
And guess what, if kids are raised that way, they're fucking messed up as adults!
So all these people who grew up being told they're the center of the universe suddenly had to share the universe and it fucking terrified them.
There's this one target demographic on which the industry doted like a mother, saying "It's all about you, whatever you want, you'll get, there's no one more important in the world."
And guess what, if kids are raised that way, they're fucking messed up as adults!
So all these people who grew up being told they're the center of the universe suddenly had to share the universe and it fucking terrified them.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think I have ever been more disappointed in my life for all this industry. Fuck people.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Here's a link to a comprehensive breakdown posted in an old thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135783202&postcount=5
This is one of the best summations of it that I've heard.
SolicitorPirate
Member
If you want to know what it's about, go to where gamergaters are. KiA on reddit, 8chan, The Ralph Report and others. What you'll discover is a mixed message of misogyny, hatred for gaming journalism, petty infighting, and a profund desire to turn back the clock to when no one paid attention to video games.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I had to turn away to cringe at the FPS camera part at the end.
Freeman
Banned
It doesn't surprise me that the guy seems to have some severe mental disorder. I don't think anything good will come out of engaging with guys like him. I don't believe they are representative of anything outside a very loud minority, we should take the microphone away from them and avoid feeding the beast(hopefully the police or the responsible authority can deal with them).
Too much focus is given to negative things, I think it drags everyone down.
I hope I don't get misinterpreted, I try to avoid this topics because it didn't work out great for me in the past but I felt like saying something.
Too much focus is given to negative things, I think it drags everyone down.
I hope I don't get misinterpreted, I try to avoid this topics because it didn't work out great for me in the past but I felt like saying something.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Banned
Well you just did offend me. And yet I am used to it, so that's okay. As long as you don't start demanding that I don't get to play the games I want to play because "Male privilege".
I have zero expectations. Gamers all mistreated at all times and I am willing to resign to that fate. But don't tell me that I need to be sorry that I play games I enjoy, that I need to be ashamed of what I do in private. You can insult me all you like, that had been done in media for literal decades. But recently the trend is to tell me that I don't even deserve to play games, that I am somehow insulting women because I don't play games women enjoy playing.
That's it, thank you. Marty, you should really check the link Technomancer posted, really comprehensive guide on the whole shit storm.
Did pro-GG ever see that post and respond? I mean this was irrefutable evidence, but I can imagine they wormed their way out of this one somehow? Or if they were smart they ignored it.
MrSaturn99
Member
What exactly is 8chan?
More importantly, do I want to know?
More importantly, do I want to know?
Fotheringay
Member
I really wonder how long this whole thing would have lasted if not for the Streisand Effect of that TB reddit thread, and a few stupid comments on twitter. It was pretty clear within the first few days Grayson hadn't written anything more than brief blurb, but when you delete 23k comments on a popular sub-reddit, you're asking for trouble.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The thread was filled with variations on "just do the research!" (the internet research!) and "I dunno guys, check out this Thunderf00t video", but never anything in depth
Just wanted to highlight this post as exceptionally well-said.
SixMachine
Member
If a woman wants to be a game developer, she should attempt to anyway. If recent events have showed anything, even if completely insane asshats hate what you do, you have to try your best not to live in fear for them. It's a fundamental right as human (well at least the US) to express yourself and video games are one such medium. No psycho has any right to stop you. Crazy gamers hardly have the resources of Daesh so even if they do something, they will have something coming for them and hardly anything to back it up. If enough people keep working through and standing up to them, it'll show that it just doesn't work.
It was spawned as a result of 4chan (moot) banning Gamergate discussion, so they made an off-brand 4chan. Turns out not only is it a cesspool of regular pro-gg garbage, it also became a haven for fucked up child related images and the like.
LouisaFerre
Member
I find so much stuff surrounding this whole ordeal to be just fuckin bizarre.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
8chan is where the stuff that got kicked off of 4chan for being too extreme or borderline illegal (or hey, actually illegal!) goes
Let that sink in
Oh wow, incredible. I didn't think I'd get an actual example of my summary in this thread.
Thank you. I don't entirely disagree with you, by the way. Games should be made for all types of people. Including you.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Man, fuck those mysognistic assholes so hard.
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