The Order: 1886 Gets New Direct-Feed Screenshots From Obama

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SwissAD said:
I'm sure the reviews will be just as polarizing as some of the opinions here.
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cfightclub04.jpg
 
if only the glass surfaces could reflect people...it's a little bit unrealistic without reflections in mirrors and glasses! I hate this kind of things, and i suppose that a cheap solution can be found to do this!
 
luca_29_bg said:
if only the glass surfaces could reflect people...it's a little bit unrealistic without reflections in mirrors and glasses! I hate this kind of things, and i suppose that a cheap solution can be found to do this!
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What bit are you talking about? Another poster said there's realistic reflections.
 
Dictator93 said:
Oh gosh dont remind me of that thread idea. It was really an awesome idea but the amount of work involved with setting up the screenshots and or gif content is absurd. Especially since I am not the richest guy out there.

I would love to ahve an actual thread where people could post about the technical details in games and not stuff just like "AC unity has the best lighting" accompanied by a screehshot or two. heck, it would keep me out of your hair.
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Sounds like a pretty good idea for a thread, but I'd imagine it would be filled with a lot of subjective opinion over technical talk, largely because a lot of people (myself included) don't have as much knowledge on the technical side, and sometimes find it easier to go by actual aesthetics. Eg, we know if something looks realistic, not necessarily the back end required to get it looking so realistic.

Totally understand about the time consumption thing. Would have been a great read though.
 
I enjoyed the Gametrailers interview Brandon did with Ru, comes across as a genuine nice guy.
I'm so conflicted on this game still though, blah. The hype train is strong...
 
Handy Fake said:
What bit are you talking about? Another poster said there's realistic reflections.
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not characters reflections in glass windows and mirrors, there was a youtube video with Galahad in front of a mirror and only the room was reflected. The same with glass windows and shop windows, you can see this in the leaked footage, in the one hour video leaked.
 
nib95 said:
Sounds like a pretty good idea for a thread, but I'd imagine it would be filled with a lot of subjective opinion over technical talk, largely because a lot of people (myself included) don't have as much knowledge on the technical side, and sometimes find it easier to go by actual aesthetics. Eg, we know if something looks realistic, not necessarily the back end required to get it looking so realistic.
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Hrm, this sparks an idea in my head.
nib95 said:
Totally understand about the time consumption thing. Would have been a great read though, but never mind.
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Magical Conch voice: "Maybe some day"

BTW, Evillore, please put in a more comprehensive quoting system. My having to manually edit quotes to respond correctly is not the best.
 
Assumption why there is
no mirror reflection.

Maybe Galahad is a Vampire?

Edit: beaten lol.
 
To get those kinda reflections in games (like actual mirrors) you have to do some really hardware intensive stuff.

The hack ways:
- Just double the geometry and mirror the movement
- real time cubemap (has perspective issues, resolution issues)
- Render target camera (resolution issues, perspective issues)

The real ways:
- Ray tracing or some approximation of it.

Expecting glass like that to have really good (emphasis on good) reflections is pretty much beyond any real time engine.
 
foxbeldin said:
This probably.


edit : According to certain theories, it could be a spoiler.
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They are using dark specular like probes for characters AO, which seems like reflections and those just doesnt seem to be rendered on heavy cubemapped surfaces.
Its not technical limitation though, more like art decision, because approximated character model would be completely black on colored mirror cubemap and it would look comical.
 
KKRT00 said:
They are using dark specular like probes for characters AO, which seems like reflections and those just doesnt seem to be rendered on heavy cubemapped surfaces.
Its not technical limitation though, more like art decision, because approximated character model would be completely black on colored mirror cubemap and it would look comical.
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Noob saibot reflection.
 
Dictator93 said:
To get those kinda reflections in games (like actual mirrors) you have to do some really hardware intensive stuff.

The hack ways:
- Just double the geometry and mirror the movement
- real time cubemap (has perspective issues, resolution issues)
- Render target camera (resolution issues, perspective issues)

The real ways:
- Ray tracing or some approximation of it.

Expecting glass like that to have really good (emphasis on good) reflections is pretty much beyond any real time engine.
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indeed is horrible to see a window with the ambient reflected and the characters not, i hate so much this thing. We hope that with ps5 this kind of things will be totally fixed!
 
Dictator93 said:
Not exactly sure what you mean here. Need to think.
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As I said other games have versions of stuff but not one seems to have them all.
In the case of Ryse or Crysis 3, it means it is only using the real time engine and its features. "It is out of place" due to all the stuff I previously mentioned.
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You keep arguing a point that is fact, let me try this. Does section of both Ryse and Crisis 3 run pre-rendered (in-engine just like say Uncharted games) videos that look "different" to the games visuals as you play?

For some features, they definitely do. (indirect large scale specular)


You obviously dont want to spoil anything, but not using SSR has some drawbacks that I mentioned and are visible when you look. Just as using SSR is not nearly comprehensive enough. I personally think devs should combine screenspace stuff with non-screenspace hacks.
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But indirect specular is only a very small part of a GI solution (some would argue non at all) and only diffuse and ambient light bounce is really classed as GI


You are definitely not saying that stuff. I agree that its material definitions are some of the best out there, but how it handles other parts of PBR are... probably not. It doesnt mean taht they are "shit" however. Which is what a lot of people think I am saying...

There are some things were we have hard information in the form of PDF documents or twitter posts from engine devs on how they work. I work off of those things assuming that the engine hasnt changed radically since they were published.

On the other hand the softbody stuff has yet to be discussed in detail. And unfortunately, the amount of content we have on it so far doesnt show how it is perhaps different from the usual model swapping that is in a lot of games.
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But all you seem to have done is go round in circles saying some "words" do you understand the actual significance of a real-time solution like LPV in Cryengine and what the GI solution used in The Order is doing or how?

Right now your heart is on your sleeve with you obvious angle of process, ignoring clear footage that shows deformation and physic's based destruction is telling.

SSR is still a decent solution but not a perfect one and has many issues that even something like Planar Reflections does better. The fact it was widely used and "invented" by Crytec does not mean better methods can/will be used and RaD have at least gone their own way with a solution that not only works but most have had better results across the board to spend time and effort creating it that just use what was readily available.

The same methods they have applied with PP effects in the game, I look forward to GDC to learn more on what I feel is a very impressive engine/game in many ways.
 
R_Deckard said:
You keep arguing a point that is fact, let me try this. Does section of both Ryse and Crisis 3 run pre-rendered (in-engine just like say Uncharted games) videos that look "different" to the games visuals as you play?
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No. Actually real-time cutscenes look better in Ryse, because of better AA [they enhanced technique], better resolution and better shaders.

---
Dictator93 said:
To get those kinda reflections in games (like actual mirrors) you have to do some really hardware intensive stuff.

The hack ways:
- Just double the geometry and mirror the movement
- real time cubemap (has perspective issues, resolution issues)
- Render target camera (resolution issues, perspective issues)

The real ways:
- Ray tracing or some approximation of it.

Expecting glass like that to have really good (emphasis on good) reflections is pretty much beyond any real time engine.
Click to expand...

One thing though, how the hell they are doing reflections in Star Citizen?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-f94S4AyMc
I still dont get how, they've done this.
Sure its not ray-traced, but quality is out of this world.
 
I am officially out of anything 1886 from now on...still not sure if I am going to rent this or buy it...not many places to rent around here anymore and the ones that do get like 2 copies...you miss them on launch day and its at least a month before you can rent it again lol...

Waiting on spoiler free impressions to decide I guess...hey SlasherJPC,you getting an advance copy for review this weekend...?
 
Dictator93 said:
To get those kinda reflections in games (like actual mirrors) you have to do some really hardware intensive stuff.

The hack ways:
- Just double the geometry and mirror the movement
- real time cubemap (has perspective issues)
- Render target camera (resolution issues, perspective issues)

The real ways:
- Ray tracing or some approximation of it.

Expecting glass like that to have really good (emphasis on good) reflections is pretty much beyond any real time engine.
Click to expand...

Weird, because
reflections in mirrors
isn't necessarily a new thing and has been done in less technically impressive games. Based on your understanding of these things do you think this is a technical ommission or do you think
Gallahad could be a vampire?
Lol.
 
Fuck guys seriously edit your posts. Because honestly every one knows what you are saying before you even click on the hidden text link. JEEZE. There is a spoiler thread for a reason.

Clean up on aisle 3. :/
 
Dictator93 said:
To get those kinda reflections in games (like actual mirrors) you have to do some really hardware intensive stuff.

The hack ways:
- Just double the geometry and mirror the movement
- real time cubemap (has perspective issues, resolution issues)
- Render target camera (resolution issues, perspective issues)

The real ways:
- Ray tracing or some approximation of it.

Expecting glass like that to have really good (emphasis on good) reflections is pretty much beyond any real time engine.
Click to expand...
It is absolutely not though, hell even GTA5 has decent real-time reflections in the game at good resolution, Planar reflection is the simplest method but you have to handle the frustrum of the doubled scene but is totally doable in real-time, just how much and dynamic the scene is would the limiting factor.
 
How can Galahag
be a vampire when there have been day time footage of him walking about? it's not a spoiler, it was a joke because there's only one Daywalker and he ain't a white man from the 19th century.
 
R_Deckard said:
As I said other games have versions of stuff but not one seems to have them all.
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Ah gotchya.

R_Deckard said:
You keep arguing a point that is fact, let me try this. Does section of both Ryse and Crisis 3 run pre-rendered (in-engine just like say Uncharted games) videos that look "different" to the games visuals as you play?
Click to expand...
I think the ingame stuff looks "different" but it also looks better. THe image quality is really poor in all the pre-rendered stuff due to macro blocking or grain. Ryse shows this off really well.

I do not think, and have never seen any evidence of, those "inengine" cutscnees in the Crytek games having effects which cannot be done in real time games. Cinebox is a realtime editor.
R_Deckard said:
But indirect specular is only a very small part of a GI solution (some would argue non at all) and only diffuse and ambient light bounce is really classed as GI
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True that GI can mean a lot of things, but I think capturing a lot of its "moments" (in the hegelian sense of that word) is really important. I think that indirect specular and indirect occlusion are pretty imporant... but to each his own.


R_Deckard said:
But all you seem to have done is go round in circles saying some "words" do you understand the actual significance of a real-time solution like LPV in Cryengine and what the GI solution used in The Order is doing or how?
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The signifcance would be, realtime stuff like LPV allowing dynamic TOD with little to no artist authoring. That is the one reason why I like simulations instead of handmade "hacks" (yes, everything is a hack, but some are more than others). I think with sim ulations you get more game content and dynamism.
R_Deckard said:
Right now your heart is on your sleeve with you obvious angle of process, ignoring clear footage that shows deformation and physic's based destruction is telling.
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I think that footage could be done with a normal model swap. Rather I would like more footage to prove it is all.
R_Deckard said:
SSR is still a decent solution but not a perfect one and has many issues that even something like Planar Reflections does better. The fact it was widely used and "invented" by Crytec does not mean better methods can/will be used and RaD have at least gone their own way with a solution that not only works but most have had better results across the board to spend time and effort creating it that just use what was readily available.
Click to expand...
I defintely dont think SSR is the end all and be all, but I think a game should use it in spite of its draw backs. SSR should be combined with other realtime techniques that arent just drawn in SS. Just like SSAO.
R_Deckard said:
The same methods they have applied with PP effects in the game, I look forward to GDC to learn more on what I feel is a very impressive engine/game in many ways.
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Do they have GDC talks this year?
 
RK9039 said:
How can Galahag
be a vampire when there have been day time footage of him walking about? it's not a spoiler, it was a joke because there's only one Daywalker and he ain't a white man from the 19th century.
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I was thinking that
the Knights themselves could be half breeds, but of vampires and humans instead of humans and werewolfs
.

Anyway, I know I spoiler tagged the above, but it's not actually a spoiler. Just me theorising on what the story could be based on random assumption.
 
nib95 said:
I was thinking that
the Knights themselves could be half breeds, but of vampires and humans instead of humans and werewolfs
.

Anyway, I know I spoiler tagged the above, but it's not actually a spoiler. Just me theorising on what the story could be based on random assumption.
Click to expand...

Aww shit
.
 
thuway said:
Fuck guys seriously edit your posts. Because honestly every one knows what you are saying before you even click on the hidden text link. JEEZE. There is a spoiler thread for a reason.

Clean up on aisle 3. :/
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Agreed. People seem to think that a hint isn't enough to give something away but when you have something that's 50/50 it can give the whole damn thing away.
 
R_Deckard said:
It is absolutely not though, hell even GTA5 has decent real-time reflections in the game at good resolution, Planar reflection is the simplest method but you have to handle the frustrum of the doubled scene but is totally doable in real-time, just how much and dynamic the scene is would the limiting factor.
Click to expand...

I really think planar reflections, unless they are gaussian blurred up the wazoo are just not great looking at all. Plus they only work under the assumption that the perspective is horizontal. You can immediately see the problem as soon as you are no longer parallel.
nib95 said:
Weird, because
reflections in mirrors
isn't necessarily a new thing and has been done in less technically impressive games. Based on your understanding of these things do you think this is a technical ommission or do you think
Gallahad could be a vampire?
Lol.
Click to expand...

This having spoilers is hilarious btw.
I guess I will join in just in case:
I really do not think that means he is a vampire, just that (like KKRT said) if they used their character refelction system in a perfect mirror like that he would look like some black blob.
I would say other games having reflections for mirrors in the past isnt super exciting. The way they did them had a lot of problems both IQ wise and plausability-wise.
 
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