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[Micerider]

You answered your own question. A lot of people have issue with a full priced game being as short as this reportedly is, with little reason to replay the game except for some collectibles (no NG+, very linear). It's a value thing.

But value is not measured only in length and re-playability. I like open world game like the next guy but it should not close the market for close-focus, intense short game that are often presenting things organically and with minimal "tricks" to make it last.

This is just a different part of the market. The Order never pretended to be something else and no-one is forced to purchase it. If it's not what someone is looking for, by all mean give it a pass, but don't force your views on others that are actually interested in that kind of experience.

 

[cripterion]

Exactly this, a 6 hour game can be a whole lot better than a 40 hour snoozefest. I'm looking forward to this game and really don't care how long it takes me to complete it.

And I haven't seen anyone claim otherwise. It's just that I personally prefer a good game that gives me more hours of gaming for the price I pay than a good game that has no replayability whatsoever.

 

[travisbickle]

I don't give a flying fuck whether a game does well lol. I only say this because people are saying that shorter games are better.

The person you responded to said it didn't matter about the length as long as its good.

I agree with him/her.

A game's only real length is how long you are willing to play it for.

And I haven't seen anyone claim otherwise. It's just that I personally prefer a good game that gives me more hours of gaming for the price I pay than a good game that has no replayability whatsoever.

How can a good game have no replayability? Just replay it.

 

[oni-link]

But some people actually feel that way. That says nothing about the order, mind you. But why does it bug you so much some people prefer shorter games?

Just don't get them if you don't want them. I am not going to get dark souls 2 remaster because I don't have time but I'm glad the game exists for you.

And to your other point, people actually have gotten busier. The audience that grew up with nintendo games is now 40 years old! People's expectations do change. We are kind of the inaugural class. Sadly. :/

A lot of AAA games can be completed in a short amount of time anyway, just because they have an open world and a load of fluff or collectables doesn't make them better if you don't care about that stuff

If you don't want to play a short linear game then don't buy it, or wait till it's cheaper

If anything every game being open world with lame side missions is a bigger issue with games as a whole, there were parts of AC4 where I had to do side missions to save up for stuff I needed to complete the main game, which is fine if you like the side missions, but if you don't that kind of padding is unbearable

 

[Oersted]

But some people actually feel that way. That says nothing about the order, mind you. But why does it bug you so much some people prefer shorter games?

Just don't get them if you don't want them. I am not going to get dark souls 2 remaster because I don't have time but I'm glad the game exists for you.

And to your other point, people actually have gotten busier. The audience that grew up with nintendo games is now 40 years old! People's expectations do change. We are kind of the inaugural class. Sadly. :/

While I totally see this, I also see (atleast parts of the) other side.
A fullpriced 10 hours game with zero additional modes feels off.

 

[Ricky_R]

But I acrually prefer short games. I'm more concerned w the QTE/story stuff. We'll find out soon enough tho, prob gonna be the type of game I end up just jumping into anyways.

Has there been many people who thought the story sucked? I'm only aware of Rapier's disappointment with it. Others range from serviceable to pretty good.

 

[Interfectum]

I'm just confused why someone would want a shorter campaign vs a longer one. Like I said above, why does making a game longer automatically mean that its quality will be worse?

It's not either, or. It's completely dependent on the game. I don't think anyone here is saying "down with long campaigns!!" No one is trying to take your long games away. You will always have your ACs, Far Cry, Dragon Age, etc. Why can't The Order exist as well?

 

[mrklaw]

can you pause the cutscenes? not looking forward to long cutscenes and then getting interrupted and missing something.

 

[EightBitNate]

This is like demanding that all books be at least 500 pages.

It's nonsensical. Media has varying lengths. I mean, you're right that you can save at any point of course, but you also want to actually be able to finish the damn thing.

No one likes a game that overstays it's welcome. Dying Light was getting a bit of that a few weeks ago.


Uh, it's way harder.

If I'm paying $60 for a book, it better be 500 pages.

And I am not about to feel bad for developers. Most of the best games ever made are locked in at 15 hours+. It really can't be that hard. Co-op or MP would have added in lots of extra hours to playtime.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Are there any plans for DLC?

Apparently theres a pack coming out where you shoot two guys and watch two five minute cut scenes broken up by a few QTEs.

$15.








/s



In all seriousness, with all the negativity surrounding this game, I was quite ready to have my low expectations shattered with even averageness.

But it feels as though my expectations have only been lowered further.

 

[Interfectum]

can you pause the cutscenes? not looking forward to long cutscenes and then getting interrupted and missing something.

If you can't pause it I'm guessing you can just hit the PS button and it'll auto-pause the game.

 

[Y2Kev]

While I totally see this, I also see (atleast parts of the) other side.
A fullpriced 10 hours game with zero additional modes feels off.

Then don't buy it. Some people value things differently. Buy games at the price you want with the features you want.

 

[GorillaJu]

I am far more likely to buy a game if I know it's shorter. There are only a handful of games I'm interested in to the point of wanting a long campaign.

 

[Amentallica]

Because no one wants shorter games at full price to become the standard.

There doesn't exist a ratio of length of game to pricing. If there was, some RPGs should cost thousands of dollars.

As it has been reiterated countless times ad nauseam, quality and fun can be found in the shortest of games or the longest of games, length doesn't mean shit. I've found myself more satisfied with some very short games because of the experience it brought, and not its duration.

 

[Oppo]

What's that got to do with anything? Shorter games for the hard working, sure if that's what they want, but the point is the game should be cheaper if this is the case. However order 1886 is nearly £50 which is insane (How is this next gen tax still bring done!), and I'm concerned at the value at the value it's bringing for that much. Considering to cancel it not only because of this, but I'm too busy to game like I would want to and I think I would be fine waiting for it.

But it WILL be cheaper.

Yo know a game like The Order will be very front-loaded, being what it is, single player only. The posters pointing this out have a very good point. The game will be available to you at basically any price between $60 and $5, it just depends on how long you're willing to wait. I can't really blame Sony for getting what full priced sales they can out of it at the outset, even if I personally as a player am not willing to pay that amount right now. Again, with the book analogy, wait for the softcover.

 

[Dictator93]

Then don't buy it. Some people value things differently. Buy games at the price you want with the features you want.

Isn't this a prety non-discurisive stance to take? "If you dont like it, dont involve yourself." Pretty anti-thetical to having conversation that does not just endless agree with itself.

 

[Kaze2212]

The dumbest thing is that the amount of cutscenes in this game is around 127m while the amount of cutscenes on average in an Uncharted game is around 100m of cutscenes.

Besides that one YouTube playthrough the game's time is around the same time as the Uncharted games. (For example I finished UC3 in 7h without really rushing it on normal)

So in the end people are probably arguing over 27m of cutscenes. (In a game that was advertised as trying to be cinematic)

That is regarding the games length.

If such a length is worth your money is a different discussion and subjective. (If you value multiplayer etc.)

But to me it feels like people make "The Order 1886" out to be the only "offender" of this. (I may be wrong)

 

[yoplay]

But some people actually feel that way. That says nothing about the order, mind you. But why does it bug you so much some people prefer shorter games?

Just don't get them if you don't want them. I am not going to get dark souls 2 remaster because I don't have time but I'm glad the game exists for you.

And to your other point, people actually have gotten busier. The audience that grew up with nintendo games is now 40 years old! People's expectations do change. We are kind of the inaugural class. Sadly. :/

.

Nice and short. Once I am done with it, i will put it up for auction on eBay. Coup a little over $40 for it and use that money towards Bloodborne. The end. None of this nonsensical hysteria by some posters here.

 

[PBY]

Has there been many people who thought the story sucked? I'm only aware of Rapier's disappointment with it. Others range from serviceable to pretty good.

Just seems kind of middling from the leaked review to some impressions. I dunno, this pre-release stuff is always part sociological study-worthy material, part hype, and part exaggeration. Just going to wait til Thurs

 

[Amentallica]

The vast majority of us are able to make time to play. Just because some people may find difficulty making some time to play doesn't mean that none of us should be able to. Games have been made that way for decades now, and it's not like people have suddenly gotten busier. That's the reason save files were made.

Edit: to be honest, I just can't wrap my head around some of the claims you guys are making. I never thought I'd see the day where gamers were OK with (and even invited) getting less for their money.

This is based off of what standard? Who made it and how was it made? I don't understand where you got your idea of what warrants a $60 purchase. Is there something I don't know?

 

[cripterion]

This is like demanding that all books be at least 500 pages.

It's nonsensical. Media has varying lengths. I mean, you're right that you can save at any point of course, but you also want to actually be able to finish the damn thing.

No one likes a game that overstays it's welcome. Dying Light was getting a bit of that a few weeks ago.


Uh, it's way harder.

Why the analogy with books?
As for Dying Light I haven't finished it myself, the nature of the game being I can just hop on and just mess around in co-op with a few people, can you do the same in The Order?

I also said it's fine that games like The Order 1886 exist, but I sure as hell won't be paying full price for it.

 

[Lanrutcon]

.

Nice and short. Once I am done with it, i will put it up for auction on eBay. Coup a little over $40 for it and use that money towards Bloodborne. The end. None of this nonsensical hysteria by some posters here.

Nonsensical hysteria.

Right.

 

[Hanmik]

If you can't pause it I'm guessing you can just hit the PS button and it'll auto-pause the game.

nope.. when I played the preview code on my PS4, I accidently went to the PS4 main screen during a cutscene.. a minute later (when I had finished reading a PM) the cutscene was over... You can´t pause or skip them.

 

[nib95]

So now we are playing the lets have sympathy for the poor devs card? Give me a break! If they don't make a compelling product they are not getting 1 cent of mine. Sony exclusives always bring out the best from you.

Read my post. I do not expect everyone to have such consideration, and clearly mention that people can quite easily not buy the game (eg speak with their wallets). And it's not just a Sony thing. I've expressed a similar sentiment for other games on other platforms, multiplatform alike. It is just the reality of game development, but it does not have to interfere with our purchase decision making.

Isn't this a prety non-discurisive stance to take? "If you dont like it, dont involve yourself." Pretty anti-thetical to having conversation that does not just endless agree with itself.

He said don't buy it. Not don't involve yourself. Discussions and purchase decisions are not the same thing.

 

[travisbickle]

If I'm paying $60 for a book, it better be 500 pages.

And I am not about to feel bad for developers. Most of the best games ever made are locked in at 15 hours+. It really can't be that hard. Co-op or MP would have added in lots of extra hours to playtime.

Yep, you're pretty much a philistine, and should probably consider another hobby that doesn't involve artistic or creative expression.

 

[Interfectum]

nope.. when I played the preview code on my PS4, I accidently went to the PS4 main screen during a cutscene.. a minute later (when I had finished reading a PM) the cutscene was over... You can´t pause or skip them.

That's lame.

 

[Frillen]

Then don't buy it. Some people value things differently. Buy games at the price you want with the features you want.

For some of us it's not about buying/not buying. It's about the game having replay value. Something this game lacks. Or is it wrong to want more?

 

[Hanmik]

That's lame.

yeps.. The Order 1886 is the Dark souls of cutscenes.

 

[mrklaw]

I'm just confused why someone would want a shorter campaign vs a longer one. Like I said above, why does making a game longer automatically mean that its quality will be worse?

In my case, because I have limited time available and I'd like to enjoy a game fully. If it becomes too long I'll probably never finish it. Yes, it could be longer than 5-7 hours, but there are lots of games like RPGs that I simply steer clear of because I cannot invest time time needed.

But I don't go into threads about those games complaining that they are too long - I simply realise that they aren't for me and move on.

 

[Nightengale]

For some of us it's not about buying/not buying. It's about the game having replay value. Something this game lacks. Or is it wrong to want more?

Then don't buy it as a message to the devs, and raise that issue to them, telling them that lack of X/Y/Z prevented you from buying it, so that they can take that feedback at heart for their next game.

 

[FeiRR]

If I'm paying $60 for a book, it better be 500 pages.

I recommend phone directories then. Best bang for bucks.

 

[Alucrid]

Nonsensical hysteria.

Right.

People are worried that this game is going to start a movement of 5 hour cinematic movie games in the entire industry and everything will be destroyed just like when mobile games ruined everything too

 

[JacksUsername]

Yeah, not everyone wants a 15-20 hour minimum. Due to work and other responsibilities, I've really come to appreciate shorter games. I also like seeing them have the polish and spectacle of a AAA game, which I understand is going to come at a cost. I'm really looking forward to playing Kirby and The Order this weekend, since I'll be able to play through the majority of both games without needing to put them down for large chunks of time. Meanwhile, I'm still not even halfway done with Dying Light, which I've had since release day.

 

[uncleniccius]

Of all the stuff I've heard the inability to pause cutscene's is the worst for me.

I *hate* it when I get disturbed by someone when I'm playing, and can't stop it for a moment or two. I missed part of the beginning of DA:I because of it and had to rewatch it on Youtube.

Edit: On the whole length debate it is nice to have variety. I love two hour experiences that are very expensive for the content like Journey, and I also love some games which have much more filler like DA:I.

Having games of varying length is good.

 

[Y2Kev]

Isn't this a prety non-discurisive stance to take? "If you dont like it, dont involve yourself." Pretty anti-thetical to having conversation that does not just endless agree with itself.

I think this is a pretty simplistic take on what I said. You don't have to not talk about something you don't want to buy. But why the general confusion over why someone might be ok with or even desire that kind of experience?

The thread has 3,000 posts, most of which are arguing if the game is 5 hours or 8 hours. This is genuinely absurd in a way I don't think I've ever seen on the board. This is not a discussion to begin with, but even if it were, "No one wants shorter games," is a pretty challenging starting point.

 

[cripterion]

The person you responded to said it didn't matter about the length as long as its good.

I agree with him/her.

A game's only real length is how long you are willing to play it for.



How can a good game have no replayability? Just replay it.

First, I don't know if The Order 1886 is good, I haven't played it. The only review I've seen seems to indicate it's a very pretty standard shooter with nice setting but simplistic gameplay and lots of QTE's and cinematic.

I found TLOU to be enjoyable, and somewhat of a good game, I wouln't replay it anytime soon though, yet even TLOU has replayability in the sense of higher difficulty settings and multiplayer.

Maybe it's just me but I rarely replay singleplayer games, even the ones I liked, unless it's to refresh my memory for the next entry in the series

Yeah, not everyone wants a 15-20 hour minimum. Due to work and other responsibilities, I've really come to appreciate shorter games. I also like seeing them have the polish and spectacle of a AAA game, which I understand is going to come at a cost. I'm really looking forward to playing Kirby and The Order this weekend, since I'll be able to play through the majority of both games without needing to put them down for large chunks of time. Meanwhile, I'm still not even halfway done with Dying Light, which I've had since release day.

What's wrong with that? Is the story that captivating that you have to finish it so soon? Then by your own admission, why are you picking 2 other games then?

 

[yoplay]

Nonsensical hysteria.

Right.

Yep. What is it about this game that is driving people up a wall? The whole industry is not making "cinematic" games. You don't have to like every game that comes out. It's ok. At the very least, wait until it does come out and actually play it yourself before complaining.

Some of you ruined whatever chance you had at enjoying this game (even a year from now) by watching it on youtube. And for what? So you can come into Gaf and complain about it. Just odd.

 

[nib95]

For some of us it's not about buying/not buying. It's about the game having replay value. Something this game lacks. Or is it wrong to want more?

How do you know this game lacks replay value? On what basis are you drawing that conclusion?

 

[suedester]

Nonsensical hysteria.

Right.

Have you read this

Spoiler

forum

thread?

 

[Oppo]

If I'm paying $60 for a book, it better be 500 pages.

This is just a pure quantity vs quality argument, nate. Some of the best books ever written are barely more than novellas.

And I am not about to feel bad for developers. Most of the best games ever made are locked in at 15 hours+. It really can't be that hard. Co-op or MP would have added in lots of extra hours to playtime.

C'mon, you didn't think that through. Most classic games can be beaten in well less than that. You add replay value on top if you like. A game like Tetris or Nidhogg barely has anything to it, content-wise, but it does one certain set of mechanical tricks very, very, very well. There's an inherent value judgement in here that says narrative games can't be as replayable as more abstract games with less storyline. And there's an argument to be made there, no doubt, but I still feel that it is a judgment based on a presupposition; particularly when we know people do in fact enjoy re-watching movies they love, as they buy DVDs and Blu-rays in addition to streaming. So who's to say one simply cannot (as you seem to be) derive enough enjoyment from a product like this? it's crazy. It's not about hours per dollar or page count per dollar or shader per dollar. So it doesn't even matter, the length, really. To pick another analogy, that's like measuring a meal in pounds of food, or calories.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

What's that got to do with anything? Shorter games for the hard working, sure if that's what they want, but the point is the game should be cheaper if this is the case. However order 1886 is nearly £50 which is insane (How is this next gen tax still bring done!), and I'm concerned at the value at the value it's bringing for that much. Considering to cancel it not only because of this, but I'm too busy to game like I would want to and I think I would be fine waiting for it. Only problem is the pre order bonus. Not quite sure what it brings but don't like missing out on that stuff. If the game is great, sure I'll buy it, whether the game would be worth the price relating to the quality is entirely subjective however and hard to actually know without playing it, but I'm just not seeing his price diversity. It seems remakes are getting more priced accordingly, I'm seeing type 0 going to less than £40 now which is great and I actually would have been happy paying £40+ for it because I know it has a lot of content and the XV demo of course, in order 1886s case, I don't know. I'm seeing 5 hours, but I would be 100%ing if I got it so don't know how long it's be then

It was £36 last week on Rakuten, currently you could order it for £38.95 using the code FEBGIFT10. You could use that code on FF:T0 if you can bump the total basket up to £40 for £10 off.

 

[Oersted]

Then don't buy it. Some people value things differently. Buy games at the price you want with the features you want.

You mean critizing that + not buying it?

 

[uncleniccius]

First, I don't know if The Order 1886 is good, I haven't played it. The only review I've seen seems to indicate it's a very pretty standard shooter with nice setting but simplistic gameplay and lots of QTE's and cinematic.

I found TLOU to be enjoyable, and somewhat of a good game, I wouln't replay it anytime soon though, yet even TLOU has replayability in the sense of higher difficulty settings and multiplayer.

Maybe it's just me but I rarely replay singleplayer games, even the ones I liked, unless it's to refresh my memory for the next entry in the series

I never replay games (I find them tedious if I've played before) but despite that length isn't an issue.

I paid £16 and got two hours from Journey, I hold no regrets as it was great. If the Order is enjoyable then paying £8 an hour (if it is 5 hours) or £5 an hour (if it is 8) really doesn't bother me.

 

[MMaRsu]

Nonsensical hysteria.

Right.

But he's right. Ive never seen anything like this before on this forum. Tallying gametime through a yoyube playthrough and everyone acts all concrrned. Ive seen this in too many Sony related threads lately, especially the order threads.

 

[Y2Kev]

For some of us it's not about buying/not buying. It's about the game having replay value. Something this game lacks. Or is it wrong to want more?

Like I said, I wouldn't buy it if it doesn't meet my criteria.

 

[Alienous]

I am far more likely to buy a game if I know it's shorter. There are only a handful of games I'm interested in to the point of wanting a long campaign.

You don't have to play it all at once.

You could probably play a game like The Last of Us in sizeable, distinct quarters over the course of weeks if you wanted to.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

If I'm paying $60 for a book, it better be 500 pages.

If I'm paying $60 for anything, it better be good. Regardless of "length" or "duration".

Co-op or MP would have added in lots of extra hours to playtime.

I agree with Co-op but this is just my personal opinion. I don't usually invest much in competitive multiplayer but love cooperative games. The thing is, for games that are heavily scripted/story-dependent, co-op is usually harder to implement. Not to mention AI issues (having AI track multiple opponents instead of the main character).

As others have said, I'm 37 years old and living with my fiancee, having a full-time job, etc, it's becoming increasingly difficult to dedicate several hours to a game, so I appreciate when I find a good game that has zero padding and delivers a short but sweet experience. That's not to say I don't love huge RPGs where I can get lost for hours at a time or grind my life away (currently playing Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen for the first time) but it's still good to have something I can pick up and play and feel like I made some progress in 10 or so minutes before I have to go to bed.

A short game isn't necessarily bad. Just as a long game isn't necessarily good. If this game is really good and it turns out it's just 6 hours long, would I want it to be 8? Sure! Of course. Would I want it to be 10 hours long? Well, is it still going to be good or is it going to have padding and a story that drags on and goes nowhere? If it's going to be the former then hell yes. The latter? No. Could it be 10 hours and still be VERY good? Yeah, sure. TLoU did that. Metal Gear Solid 3 did that. Resident Evil 4 did that. But those are games from seasoned developers that made initial shorter (or different) games and then learned enough to make longer (and better!) games packed with more features, refined controls, a more cohesive (or entertaining) story, etc.

You mean critizing that + not buying it?

I think that as long as you're honestly meaning the criticism to reach the developers while hoping that the sequel "corrects" those issues, then it's all good. There's people that just want to come in and rip the game while at the same time not really being interested in the game at all. I'm not saying that's you though.

 

[cripterion]

I never replay games (I find them tedious if I've played before) but despite that length isn't an issue.

I paid £16 and got two hours from Journey, I hold no regrets as it was great. If the Order is enjoyable then paying £8 an hour (if it is 5 hours) or £5 an hour (if it is 8) really doesn't bother me.

And more power to you, I never said anything about what others can or cannot enjoy.

 

[Y2Kev]

You mean critizing that + not buying it?

Sure, you can say you don't want to pay for a game at the price they are charging.

 

[LAA]

But it WILL be cheaper.

Yo know a game like The Order will be very front-loaded, being what it is, single player only. The posters pointing this out have a very good point. The game will be available to you at basically any price between $60 and $5, it just depends on how long you're willing to wait. I can't really blame Sony for getting what full priced sales they can out of it at the outset, even if I personally as a player am not willing to pay that amount right now. Again, with the book analogy, wait for the softcover.

Thats not a fair way to look at it really. Games be more or less after release simply because of how rare a game is and being cheaper after launch isn't the point anyway, the price should be reflected on the day 1 price. I was going to cancel but been charged for it already...oh well, may not be able to play it for a while I'm sure it will be good, I just question whether I'll find the quality good enough to outweigh the amount of content and even if it is, entirely subjective on the person.

It was £36 last week on Rakuten, currently you could order it for £38.95 using the code FEBGIFT10. You could use that code on FF:T0 if you can bump the total basket up to £40 for £10 off.

Tried the code this morning but wasn't working sadly , too late now anyway. Even so this was only because of a code (which may have been unintended to work with this game), most places seem to be selling it in the high £40s, which I never seem to pay for games. Only Knack at launch and Limited editions of games.
Currently got T0 on pre order for £36, so that's cool, but I believe it's £34 in some places now. Just noticing that quite a few places are changing the price without use of codes and Order 1886 hasn't budged at all really.