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[Audioboxer]

that was the initial deal to get the game made and launch first on XB1. then in October of 2013, MS made a second deal with EA to keep the game exclusive "for the life of the title"

EA really bet hard on the XB1 being the multiplatform console of choice like the 360. Didn't quite pan out that way but in some regards you can see why they took the gamble. Although if they were paying any attention to that E3 is was quite clear things weren't going to pan out so smoothly (deals will have been spoke about in advance though).

 

[Mass_Pincup]

They aren't owned by Sony or else they would still have them. SOE owned there IP's that's why they still working on their games.

That's also a good point, why was SOE a Sony Owned Studio and not a part of WWS?

Sony owned SOE and their IPs, if Sony wanted to sell SOE wile still keeping their Ips they could have done that.

And SOE weren't a part of WWS because their focus was to work on PC, not Playstation systems.

 

[Deadpool_X]

RAD is NOT a 2nd party studio. They are a 3rd party with close ties to Sony, so they work almost exclusively on Sony titles. At the same time, there is nothing stopping them from making a game for any other system.

A second party would be a studio that is owned in part, but not fully, by the 1st party studio. Think Rare and Silicon Knights and their relationship to Nintendo. Nintendo owned large chunks of those studios, though not the majority of them. Therefore, they made exclusive games for Nintendo hardware, but we're not fully 1st party.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Sony owned SOE and their IPs, if Sony wanted to sell SOE wile still keeping their Ips they could have done that.

And SOE weren't a part of WWS because their focus was to work on PC, not Playstation systems.

Reading back at all my posts, I feel like the next Artisan in this thread.

Sorry for all the troubles.

 

[EGM1966]

EA really bet hard on the XB1 being the multiplatform console of choice like the 360. Didn't quite pan out that way but in some regards you can see why they took the gamble. Although if they were paying any attention to that E3 is was quite clear things weren't going to pan out so smoothly (deals will have been spoke about in advance though).

To be fair in EAs position I would also - even with E3 - have figured on it doing better in US which is where I would expect a lot of TitanFall sales.

Even with all the hoopla the initial launch spike that would have been visible in ore-orders probably reassured them too. Nobody expected XB1 to launch strong then dip in US vs PS4 launching even better and moving ahead I suspect.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Reading back at all my posts, I feel like the next Artisan in this thread.

Sorry for all the troubles.

Haha don't worry about it, as long as I've been helpful.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

RAD is NOT a 2nd party studio. They are a 3rd party with close ties to Sony, so they work almost exclusively on Sony titles. At the same time, there is nothing stopping them from making a game for any other system.

A second party would be a studio that is owned in part, but not fully, by the 1st party studio. Think Rare and Silicon Knights and their relationship to Nintendo. Nintendo owned large chunks of those studios, though not the majority of them. Therefore, they made exclusive games for Nintendo hardware, but we're not fully 1st party.

Now this is information, could you please expand on this?

What do you mean by not fully owning those studios?

 

[Justified]

Now this is information, could you please expand on this?

What do you mean by not fully owning those studios?

His terms are messed up.

RAD is every since of the word 2nd Party.

Like we explained earlier. Most people dont know its a difference between 1st/3rd party Games, and 1st/3rd party Devs.

2nd Party is an unofficial term used to describe when the 2 mix (3rd party Dev making 1st Party Games, RAD in The Order's case)

 

[GoaThief]

Hate? More like rational thinking. fuck ms

Haha, come on son.

Since the clear out of higher ups Microsoft has changed tact and are doing their best with what they have. It may not appeal to you but to imply anyone who isn't still locked in to (or never were) full blast hate mode is not thinking rationally is a little distasteful.

Grats to Sony, by the way.

 

[The Artisan]

another thing about console sales i've wondered is returns. surely out of the 20 million Ps4s, some people will want to return them. for those returned consoles, does it count as a subtraction? is it that the consoles sales outpace the subtractions so much that they don't matter? how does it work?

this is it.
but part 2 of the story is: they wanted something new and most people chose one of the two contenders who started at the same time.
also, the no.1 system seller of the ps4 is the diversity. when people say bloodborne is no system seller and LBP is no system seller and this and that is no system seller and MLB is no system seller they might be right. But it's in the mix.
for the informed people we also have the outlook. players can be sure, from announvcement and history of the ps3 that the console will be futureproof.
and it had the better marketing and communication. this is not about selling snake oil but being able to speak properly to your audience without spitting in their face while talking.

diversity? I think the number 1 system seller is the brand. eve though that recent statistic showed otherwise (actually showed that for xbox as the TOP system seller)

 

[Handy Fake]

Reading back at all my posts, I feel like the next Artisan in this thread.

Sorry for all the troubles.

Oh man, well that just makes me feel sorry for you now. Get out.

 

[Final Verdict]

To be fair in EAs position I would also - even with E3 - have figured on it doing better in US which is where I would expect a lot of TitanFall sales.

Even with all the hoopla the initial launch spike that would have been visible in ore-orders probably reassured them too. Nobody expected XB1 to launch strong then dip in US vs PS4 launching even better and moving ahead I suspect.

Yup, I don't blame them, and to be fair, Titanfall did sell very well as an exclusive, and I think that it is still to this day the X1's best selling exclusive (though I don't have definitive date)

I think they announced ~7M unique players, and with the PC community being said to be small, I would imagine that at least half of that number is from X1 sales.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Oh man, well that just makes me feel sorry for you now. Get out.

haha, don't worry it was only with this thread because of the horrible 1st,2nd,3rd party terms it's not like The Artisan in the NPD Threads, oh boy I love that dude.

 

[GoaThief]

Yup, I don't blame them, and to be fair, Titanfall did sell very well as an exclusive, and I think that it is still to this day the X1's best selling exclusive (though I don't have definitive date)

I think they announced ~7M unique players, and with the PC community being said to be small, I would imagine that at least half of that number is from X1 sales.

Thing is how many of those were gamertags from the same console or second hand sales? On my XB1 four GTs have played Titanfall.

Not the best metric to go by really, moreso without complementing statistics.

 

[Audioboxer]

another thing about console sales i've wondered is returns. surely out of the 20 million Ps4s, some people will want to return them. for those returned consoles, does it count as a subtraction? is it that the consoles sales outpace the subtractions so much that they don't matter? how does it work?
diversity? I think the number 1 system seller is the brand. eve though that recent statistic showed otherwise (actually showed that for xbox as the TOP system seller)

Returns outside of warranty issues will almost be a non-existant %. Yes people do return things for a full refund and never rebuy again, but it will be such a low %.

 

[Intrigue]

another thing about console sales i've wondered is returns. surely out of the 20 million Ps4s, some people will want to return them. for those returned consoles, does it count as a subtraction?

No it doesn't.

But overall every manufacturer will be within same margins of returns.

 

[Final Verdict]

another thing about console sales i've wondered is returns. surely out of the 20 million Ps4s, some people will want to return them. for those returned consoles, does it count as a subtraction? is it that the consoles sales outpace the subtractions so much that they don't matter? how does it work?

I think they don't worry about returns. They just count the # of brand new SKUs that are sold through retail.

diversity? I think the number 1 system seller is the brand. eve though that recent statistic showed otherwise (actually showed that for xbox as the TOP system seller)

I would agree with you, especially in Europe. The Playstation brand is very strong, and combined with word of mouth (with the 'new' ps4 being so popular), this is probably the biggest selling factor.

I am still in shock though with just how much success they have had with it.
The fact that they sold 1.7M in the last 2 months, with the US likely only accounting for 500k (assuming they sold ~300k for next NPD) of that, and Japan is like 200k?
That would mean that 1M units was sold through Europe + RoW during two very slow months.

 

[Rymuth]

Reading back at all my posts, I feel like the next Artisan in this thread.

Sorry for all the troubles.

You're still a 100 posts short.

Nah, you're good.

 

[Final Verdict]

Thing is how many of those were gamertags from the same console or second hand sales? On my XB1 four GTs have played Titanfall.

Not the best metric to go by really, moreso without complementing statistics.

oh really? I didn't think about that....
It is a really good point, though I still don't think that it is far fetched to think that it is the best selling X1 exclusive right?

 

[Goodacre0081]

EA really bet hard on the XB1 being the multiplatform console of choice like the 360. Didn't quite pan out that way but in some regards you can see why they took the gamble. Although if they were paying any attention to that E3 is was quite clear things weren't going to pan out so smoothly (deals will have been spoke about in advance though).

long before, we're probably talking years for this partnership. I also suspect that they have an agreement for the foreseeable future too.

Yup, I don't blame them, and to be fair, Titanfall did sell very well as an exclusive, and I think that it is still to this day the X1's best selling exclusive (though I don't have definitive date)

I think they announced ~7M unique players, and with the PC community being said to be small, I would imagine that at least half of that number is from X1 sales.

it sold well but how many of those sales are attributed to the bundle, which was also discounted. people might suspect the same "padding" of numbers for AC Unity or TLOUre

 

[Liabe Brave]

I wonder why the term 3rd party came into use? Again not questioning souch as curious. A different industries lingo is interesting to clarify.

"Third party" is general business language, not solely for video games. It comes from the fact that business transactions generally involve two sides. A third party is an entity that assists. Toyota makes cars to sell to dealers, and Maersk gets them from Japan to the U.S. as a third-party shipper. A union disputes with an employer, and a third-party arbitration firm manages the talks. Or a platform holder sells videogames to consumers, which are either first party (published by the platform holder themselves) or third party (made by someone else, but sold to the platform holder's consumers).

Given this, you can see why "second party" isn't ever heard officially. From a business perspective, the second party is actually us, the people who buy the consoles and games. Any other usage comes from misunderstanding "first" and "third" party as indicative of importance or closeness of relationship, instead of merely numbering the role played in the business transaction.

As a made up term, "second party" can mean anything you want. As seen in this thread, the most common usage is "dev contracted to make a game by a platform holder", but some people add other requirements regarding IP status, studio ownership, etc. This confusion is exactly why it's best to stick with the business terms. All games are either first or third party. The details can be spelled out case-by-case, rather than trying to capture them all inside a single term.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

This was just a return to form by Sony. The PS3 was a serious misstep, which they manage to somewhat rectify by the end.

That wasn't enough to erase the utter dominance in the PS1 and PS2 generations. People grew up playing these consoles, and when the PlayStation name came back with a reasonable proposition in the PS4, the people came back in droves.

Never forget.

Spoiler

Of course, Microsofts' mistakes helped, but I think the PS4 was going to sell better either way.

 

[Final Verdict]

it sold well but how many of those sales are attributed to the bundle, which was also discounted. people might suspect the same "padding" of numbers for AC Unity or TLOUre

But they get paid for the bundle right?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

This was just a return to form by Sony. The PS3 was a serious misstep, which they manage to somewhat rectify by the end.

That wasn't enough to erase the utter dominance in the PS1 and PS2 generations. People grew up playing these consoles, and when the PlayStation name came back with a reasonable proposition in the PS4, the people came back in droves.

Spoiler

Of course, Microsofts' mistakes helped, but I think the PS4 was going to sell better either way.

The only reason the 360 sold that well is because it released a year prior, otherwise the PS3 would've been much more closer in the US and the UK.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

The only reason the 360 sold that well is because it released a year prior, otherwise the PS3 would've been much more closer in the US and the UK.

Yes, underestimating the competition was one of Sony's mistakes.

 

[Ascenion]

Damn Sony, congrats. I'd say you've blown away the competition but that implies there was some. Still this makes me wonder if there will even be a 4th iteration of the Xbox all things considered.

 

[Javin98]

How did the last few pages suddenly turn into a discussion of The Order and whether RaD is first/second/third party? LOL, typical sales thread on NeoGaf. On the bright side, we stopped using the word "salt" and those salt memes are gone XD

This was just a return to form by Sony. The PS3 was a serious misstep, which they manage to somewhat rectify by the end.

That wasn't enough to erase the utter dominance in the PS1 and PS2 generations. People grew up playing these consoles, and when the PlayStation name came back with a reasonable proposition in the PS4, the people came back in droves.

Never forget.

Spoiler

Of course, Microsofts' mistakes helped, but I think the PS4 was going to sell better either way.

Seriously, someone needs to replace that Gif with the current gen version. Anyway, I agree. I grew up with the Playstation brand and in most places of the world, the brand is much stronger than XBox.

 

[slavesnyder]

diversity? I think the number 1 system seller is the brand. eve though that recent statistic showed otherwise (actually showed that for xbox as the TOP system seller)

Also this. I think in this case it works together quite well, as the brand was a synonym for diversity, in some countries even a synonyme for gaming.
It was something microsoft always tries hard with their products, as in "letmebingthatforyou. com". doesn't always work out.
sadly, this was even more for nintendo ("shut down your nintendo and go to bed"), but it seems that here, the brand power alone was not enough.

 

[jroc74]

I am actually surprised at this number. Last year I thought it could happen but after a couple of their exclusives bombed (DC, LBP3) and MS was cranking out software and reducing the price I thought PS4s sales would slow in proportion to the MS growth. Good for Sony, I am looking forward to playing more on my PS4 but I personally think they have shit the bed to date on their feature set (suspend/resume) and the lack of external hdd support makes me salty as my HDD is full and i am too lazy to replace the internal one.

See, part of a system seller to me is exclusive games. Whether they bombed or not doesnt matter to me, what matters is if I wanna play them. regardless of reviews, scores, etc. Even in this social media heavy world, I would guess that a good chunk of the general public dont follow reviews, scores, etc. After reading all the issues with LBP 3, I still got it, mainly for my kids but I am still a fan of the series. Funny thing tho....Lego Marvel has continually crashed on me, LBP has been flawless...go figure.

Your definition of a 'system seller' is subjective, vague and pointless. When a consoles sells well because it has an A B C D E F G shitload of great games, there's no point in complaining 'yes, but it doesn't have 'just' A and B'.
Having 7 games worth buying a console for is better than just having 1 or 2 games. In no way does this mean game A and B are worth more than C D E F G. It simply means game A or B are worth more for the platform to sell well.

In a sense, a console having 1 or 2 system sellers is not a good sign.
When you look at the history of gaming platform and games being glamoured as 'system sellers' it's because:
a. the platform was selling poorly and relied on just one or two franchises to keep it's sales up: Halo (xbox), RE4 (GC), Monster Hunter (PSP), MGS4 (PS3), Titanfall (XBone), Mario xxx (Wii U)
b. the platform was an anomaly called the Wii where people bought 30 million copies of Wii fit/sport/play each


You're using double standards here.
You can't state Nintendo's first party games are systemsellers for the Wii U and at the same time state that better selling games like FIFA, CoD, GTA aren't systemsellers for the PS4.

Exactly.

I know I wasn't the person you were talking to, but I'm not sure why the answer can't be both.

That is, FIFA can sell systems. So can Wii Fit. Call of Duty can sell systems. So can Nintendogs. GTA can sell systems. So can Puzzle and Dragons.

I don't think people stop and consider whether a game is exclusive or not when they buy a system. They see a/some games they like, and buy it. If that game happens to be exclusive, then whatever effect it has is concentrated entirely on one platform. If it's not, it's dispersed. A mainline Mario game may sell 1M systems, and all of that will be concentrated on Nintendo's platform. A mainline Call of Duty may also sell 1M systems, but those will be dispersed across Playstation, Xbox and PC.

It feels like people want this to be either/or, where exclusives sell systems or multiplatform games sell systems. I don't understand why the answer can't be both: compelling games sell systems, whether they happen to be multiplatform or not.

Exactly again. I know for me I will get an XBO for exclusives and nothing else. Last gen it was controller preference and brand with the PS3. (at the start it was controller preference, grew to like the 360 controller alot more)

Last gen, I had no idea about which console had better graphics, specs, resolution, FPS, etc. This gen is a lil different. Sometimes I wish I didnt know more...lol.

To repeat whats already been posted... a few other things make the PS4 a system seller by itself. Most of my off line friends, co workers all play PS3, PS4.

Just like XBL and if your friends had a 360 was a system seller for the 360.

 

[The Artisan]

Returns outside of warranty issues will almost be a non-existant %. Yes people do return things for a full refund and never rebuy again, but it will be such a low %.

so the subtraction is so minimal, that incoming sales easily eat them up going forward?

No it doesn't.

But overall every manufacturer will be within same margins of returns.

so can one say it is negligible?

I think they don't worry about returns. They just count the # of brand new SKUs that are sold through retail.

so whatever profit is made from consoles, it's from the shipments to the retailers? and the retailers keep the profit from selling the consoles to consumers (and suffer the losses when they are returned)?

I would agree with you, especially in Europe. The Playstation brand is very strong, and combined with word of mouth (with the 'new' ps4 being so popular), this is probably the biggest selling factor.

I am still in shock though with just how much success they have had with it.
The fact that they sold 1.7M in the last 2 months, with the US likely only accounting for 500k (assuming they sold ~300k for next NPD) of that, and Japan is like 200k?
That would mean that 1M units was sold through Europe + RoW during two very slow months.

pretty sure it's the strongest brand everywhere around the world, not just Europe. or are you saying, of the places WW that it is a strong brand, it is seen strongest there?

and right now...Ps4 is still leading sales in the U.S right? but only just?

 

[Final Verdict]

This was just a return to form by Sony. The PS3 was a serious misstep, which they manage to somewhat rectify by the end.

That wasn't enough to erase the utter dominance in the PS1 and PS2 generations. People grew up playing these consoles, and when the PlayStation name came back with a reasonable proposition in the PS4, the people came back in droves.

Never forget.

Spoiler

Of course, Microsofts' mistakes helped, but I think the PS4 was going to sell better either way.

While I agree partially with you, I also think that if MS had not messed up at all with X1 (No Kinect fallout, no DRM scandal, no price gap, same HW as PS4, and Games focused reveal), then there is no way PS4 would be at 20M like it is now.

I do think that PS4 would still be winning the WW sales by a fair amount, but in the US/UK they would be losing, and there wouldn't be a 2:1 sales ratio WW...maybe a 1.5-1 ratio.

My personal opinion though, and no way to back it up as it is a "what if" scenario, so take it as you will.

 

[SmokyDave]

Never forget.

It bugs me that the PS2 bar is in the 30-40 million range when it's level with the GCN & Xbox bars.

 

[Javin98]

I am still in shock though with just how much success they have had with it.
The fact that they sold 1.7M in the last 2 months, with the US likely only accounting for 500k (assuming they sold ~300k for next NPD) of that, and Japan is like 200k?
That would mean that 1M units was sold through Europe + RoW during two very slow months.

I'm still wondering about this myself. 1.7 million in two very slow months is amazing, but how does it all add up? If we assume that the common percentage of US to WW sales of the PS4 is still ~35% for the first two months, we get ~595K, but given that the number was 191K in January, this seems very unlikely. Could it possible that sales in the States slowed down significantly in January but sales elsewhere remained strong?

 

[Melchiah]

So far I've only purchased I:SS and TLoU:R this gen. I plan on geting DC:GOTY edition because it's now pretty amazing compared to the state it launched in.

The GOTY is already out via patches, and the soon to be released replay patch.

 

[Final Verdict]

so whatever profit is made from consoles, it's from the shipments to the retailers? and the retailers keep the profit from selling the consoles to consumers (and suffer the losses when they are returned)?

Well i have not specifically worked game retail, but have done general retail, and usuallly the way things work is the manufacturers sell a product to the retailer for a price, and that is where they make their money.
The retailers then decide on a price to sell it for (usually a bit higher than what they got if for) which is usually at the recommended price, and make a profit based on that.

With returned consoles they actually make even more money because they pay the customer a certain price for the system, and then turn around and sell it for more to make a profit off of it.

Once a console gets so old, and they can't sell used version of the console anymore because the demand is so low, they stop accepting the console as a trade in to avoid losing money. That is why they quickly stopped accepting the OG xbox after the 360 came out because most people were trading it in, and then nobody would want to rebuy it.

 

[ItsLeebo]

Has Microsoft released any milestone numbers? What concrete evidence do we have to compare the two consoles?

 

[joecanada]

I never said they were mad because 3rd party games sell well on PS4. I said they were salty because the games you absolutely have to buy a PS4 to play aren't that good. For that matter they aren't that good on XB1 either. This will change with time of course (hopefully)

firstly that's your perception, which is obviously not true for the millions of people who played and liked infamous, killzone, driveclub, the order, tlou, and more.... so that point is quite untrue.

secondly, these games are just icing on the cake. so if I buy a console for BF4 , which is exactly what I did, then I am going for the best one out there, which I believe is the ps4, and apparently so did 20 million others, although im sure many bought all consoles, which you can't fault anyone for. but if i had to choose one, which i did, then i choose the one with best hardware, which also comes with the games I wanted. pretty easy choice actually (until buying another).

There's absolutely no reason for salt. If you have no interest then don't buy and be happy.

 

[Javin98]

Has Microsoft released any milestone numbers? What concrete evidence do we have to compare the two consoles?

None, every time Microsoft releases a statement about sales, it's shipment numbers. We are forced to estimate the sold through numbers and the problem is these estimations can wildly vary. But I'd put the XB1 sold through number at ~10.5 million.

 

[MMaRsu]

Haha, come on son.

Since the clear out of higher ups Microsoft has changed tact and are doing their best with what they have. It may not appeal to you but to imply anyone who isn't still locked in to (or never were) full blast hate mode is not thinking rationally is a little distasteful.

Grats to Sony, by the way.

Not saying that either but if you resent MS for what they tried to pull its only rational to not buy their products. Im not saying anyone who likes an xbox isnt thinking rational. Also they had to change tact but they still acted like us consumers never fully understood their plans and to me it always sounded like they thought it was still a great idea.

Not gonna forgive them for that one.

 

[Final Verdict]

I'm still wondering about this myself. 1.7 million in two very slow months is amazing, but how does it all add up? If we assume that the common percentage of US to WW sales of the PS4 is still ~35% for the first two months, we get ~595K, but given that the number was 191K in January, this seems very unlikely. Could it possible that sales in the States slowed down significantly in January but sales elsewhere remained strong?

Yeah, that is what is blowing my mind....because the NPD numbers for January are showing a decline from last year, and even if the NPD for Feb is 300k ish, that would still mean that they are selling a ton of consoles outside of the US.

In comparison, the US is about 50% of the X1's market (according to past trends), so if we guestimate ~240k (my NPD prediction) for February + the 160k from January, we can guess that in comparison, the X1 probably sold ~800k in the same time period, which would match up fairly well with the 2:1 WW trend that we have seen so far.

 

[Javin98]

Yeah, that is what is blowing my mind....because the NPD numbers for January are showing a decline from last year, and even if the NPD for Feb is 300k ish, that would still mean that they are selling a ton of consoles outside of the US.

In comparison, the US is about 50% of the X1's market (according to past trends), so if we guestimate ~240k (my NPD prediction) for February + the 160k from January, we can guess that in comparison, the X1 probably sold ~800k in the same time period, which would match up fairly well with the 2:1 WW trend that we have seen so far.

The percentage of X1 in US to WW is more like 60-70%, actually.

 

[joecanada]

oh really? I didn't think about that....
It is a really good point, though I still don't think that it is far fetched to think that it is the best selling X1 exclusive right?

it probably is, but this is something you always have to consider, especially with players who log a lot of time in a game, they will often have a sniper GT, a trolling account, a regular one, maybe a seperate youtube account, etc....

number of unique players means nothing and in fact to report it actually smells of desperation like the "millions of zombies killed".

 

[jaypah]

Yes, underestimating the competition was one of Sony's mistakes.

You would think MS would have learned from it like Sony did. But, nope. They thought they were above it all and it turned a potentially good fight into a beat down. Launching at the same time was going to put the numbers in Sony's favor (they are appreciated a lot more on the World stage) but it didn't have to be this lopsided. Now to see if they learned anything for the next round or just continue to unify Windows with Xbox and release Xbox PC's like Steam Machines? Sony coming off PS4 will be in juggernaut mode.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

diversity? I think the number 1 system seller is the brand. eve though that recent statistic showed otherwise (actually showed that for xbox as the TOP system seller)

I don't think the brand is that important until other factors coalesce. If it was, there was no reason for the PS3 to falter the way it did, because that was coming right after the PS brand's absolute peak in popularity (when it was as ubiquitous to gaming as Nintendo was in the 80s).

I think system diversity and lineup plays a stronger role in the end, because that's a major reason why 360 started dominating PS3 in NA. I think people forget just how diverse the early 360's lineup was from 2005-2009 or so, it was incredibly diverse, even on the 1st party front. And that made it appeal to all types of gamers. It was a level of diversity in its library the PS3 didn't begin to match (let alone exceed) until 2-3 years after that point, by which time the 360 just started focusing on Kinect games, multiplatforms that had no major visual (or, arguably, online) advantages on its system, and that Forza/Halo/Gears trinity that gets mocked these days (even though the other manufacturers have their own similar trinities, especially Nintendo).

The Xbox brand was still pretty weak when 360 launched; it grew more powerful globally (especially in UK) thanks partly to the early diversity in its library. Aka, the exact same thing the PS4 is offering right now. Brand name wasn't enough to help PS3 steamroll 360 that gen, especially in NA where it's still millions behind in sales. But this time, with a combination of factors including improved brand name from the later half of PS3's lineup and focusing on a balance of AAA and indie games across multiple platforms, the PS4 is cleaning house so to speak, and will continue to do so for rest of the year (yep, even in NA).

 

[prwxv3]

I'm always amazed by people who do not personally like a system's library (that's completely fine, nothing wrong with that), and thus conclude that everyone buying it must be brainwashed by marketing or fan boys buying on hype or whatever other explanation they can come up with.

Any conclusion, other than "The games may not be for you, but perhaps lots of other people like them."

I agree. Its been getting really annoying lately. Its like "they only like the game to validate their purchase" bullshit.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

another thing about console sales i've wondered is returns. surely out of the 20 million Ps4s, some people will want to return them. for those returned consoles, does it count as a subtraction? is it that the consoles sales outpace the subtractions so much that they don't matter? how does it work?
diversity? I think the number 1 system seller is the brand. eve though that recent statistic showed otherwise (actually showed that for xbox as the TOP system seller)

That was only in the US.

 

[AndyD]

While I agree partially with you, I also think that if MS had not messed up at all with X1 (No Kinect fallout, no DRM scandal, no price gap, same HW as PS4, and Games focused reveal), then there is no way PS4 would be at 20M like it is now.

I do think that PS4 would still be winning the WW sales by a fair amount, but in the US/UK they would be losing, and there wouldn't be a 2:1 sales ratio WW...maybe a 1.5-1 ratio.

My personal opinion though, and no way to back it up as it is a "what if" scenario, so take it as you will.

I don't think many fewer people would have bought PS4, as much as many more would have bought Xone. Instead of 20/10 like we have now, it would have been something like 18/15. If we had two very attractive, highly competing options, more people would have bought both. Because under your assumption the consoles would have been more or less equal, Sony would have fought much more on price, with discounts and bundles, than the comfortable ride they are taking now.

 

[Final Verdict]

The percentage of X1 in US to WW is more like 60-70%, actually.

Sorry, I just looked at my numbers after posting, and I think you are right, though technically we cannot say for sure since we have not had an update on X1 WW sales in so long.
But X1 has sold through 6.35M in the US through January...
If we guess that X1 sold ~250k in Feb NPD this year, that would put them at 6.5M NPD LTD, and double of that would be 13M WW which is definitely too high...
If they have sold through 11M units WW through march 1st (which is just a rough guess), then that would put their US-WW sales ratio at 60% which is probably accurate.

 

[Percy]

I agree. Its been getting really annoying lately. Its like "they only like the game to validate their purchase" bullshit.

For some it is most likely a coping mechanism to hold on to that narrative.

 

[grumble]

RAD is NOT a 2nd party studio. They are a 3rd party with close ties to Sony, so they work almost exclusively on Sony titles. At the same time, there is nothing stopping them from making a game for any other system.

A second party would be a studio that is owned in part, but not fully, by the 1st party studio. Think Rare and Silicon Knights and their relationship to Nintendo. Nintendo owned large chunks of those studios, though not the majority of them. Therefore, they made exclusive games for Nintendo hardware, but we're not fully 1st party.

The definition is simpler:

1. First party: the hardware manufacturer
2. Second party: the consumer (you)
3: third party: anyone who provides services to the second party who is not the first party. This includes software, accessories, merchandise, whatever.

If the developer makes a game then the publisher is the hardware manufacturer, it is a first party game. You are buying it from the hardware maker and they are paying the developer for their services. If the developer sells to you directly or via a third party publisher and is not majority owned by the hardware maker, it is third party.