Fraternity chanting the n-word

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devilhawk said:
Another forum I visit has former frat members from several OU frats and they believe it is an old song that all the members know. Even more interesting is the OU chapter has had several African American members in the past.

Edit: A second video has appeared https://instagram.com/p/z_ilNau41L/
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lol, I love how that douchenozzle at the end is like "No, no, no! Don't record us being racist! This is strictly off the record funsies!"
 
Frog-fu said:
Neither have I, to be honest, but the point I'm trying to make is that not everyone that's an asshole in the late teens to early twenties stay that way.

I'm not defending what these kids did. I don't know them, but I do know what it's like to be young and stupid. Hell, I still am, and I also know that we gain little from purely punitive measures. Yeah, it'd feel nice for a little while if these priviliged dickheads got kicked out of school and humiliated, but then what? They've still got their entire lives to live, they're still going to contribute to society one way or another. Are they going to stop being racist? I'd like to think so, plenty of racists reform. It's 2015, racism is still alive and well in the world, but it's on the delcine, and these kids - and they are still kids - are young, and I sincerely doubt their chanting is anymore genuine than the chanting of old football chants (soccer for you Americans).

I'd rather we cure the ignorance then deny them an education altogether. Perhaps I am too much of an idealist, but honestly, I don't think kicking them out is going to accomplish much. It's not an effective deterrent, history has proven as much.
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Yeah, that's exactly how I feel despite this thread trying to make it sound like i'm donning a fucking hood. Kids do and say a lot of stupid shit, and although you may not have done or said anything quite like this at 19, 20, 21 - chances are if you are in your 30s now you look back at that age and wonder what the fuck you were thinking.
 
jamesinclair said:
Enron, you've jumped the shark here.

These are adults of voting age who are gleefully singing about the lynching of people due to the color of their skin.

In 2015.

This is not a case of boys will be boys or a youthful indiscretion.

This is who they are. This is who they are proud of being.

They do not have a place at a university or quite frankly in modern society.
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Exactly. These kids deserve more than a slap on the wrist. They're well past the point of "kids being kids." Speaking of which, this is unacceptable behavior for children, teenagers or anyone. Period.
 
Frog-fu said:
Neither have I, to be honest, but the point I'm trying to make is that not everyone that's an asshole in the late teens to early twenties stay that way.

I'm not defending what these kids did. I don't know them, but I do know what it's like to be young and stupid. Hell, I still am, and I also know that we gain little from purely punitive measures. Yeah, it'd feel nice for a little while if these priviliged dickheads got kicked out of school and humiliated, but then what? They've still got their entire lives to live, they're still going to contribute to society one way or another. Are they going to stop being racist? I'd like to think so, plenty of racists reform. It's 2015, racism is still alive and well in the world, but it's on the delcine, and these kids - and they are still kids - are young, and I sincerely doubt their chanting is anymore genuine than the chanting of old football chants (soccer for you Americans).

I'd rather we cure the ignorance then deny them an education altogether. Perhaps I am too much of an idealist, but honestly, I don't think kicking them out is going to accomplish much. It's not an effective deterrent, history has proven as much.
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Squirrel Killer said:
The are options here now that the chapter is dead:

  • Kick no one out.
  • Kick out the identifiable chanters on video. Those that managed to hide their face get off scot free.
  • Kick out everyone known to be on the bus. This includes the filmers regardless of their intent in filming and posting the video and the frat members' dates.
  • Kick out every member of the frat.
You know which GAF will choose.
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Kicking the students out, be it only the ones clearly seen in the video, all the kids in the frat, or any combination, won't have much of an effect in the long run. That's because the really crafty ones know how to be discreet and will proceed through life and into positions where they can influence the lives of others without getting caught. However, I feel that letting this drop sends the message (which is already out there for most people like this) that it's ok to gleefully hate on an entire group of people. Ultimately the punishment is up to the school and the frat's main body, but I think we can be sure it will be relatively light and most if not all of the involved parties will not be denied an education at one of our nation's many other prestigious and expensive institutions, where there will be peers who take the opposite response to the video.

https://instagram.com/p/z_ilNau41L/

Look at all that regret
 
jamesinclair said:
They do not have a place at a university or quite frankly in modern society.
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So, are we to simply remove people from society who have ever uttered or laughed at some sort of racist bullshit?

And lol @ all of a sudden being a teenager and then 1 year later magically becoming a functional, emotionally mature adult.
 
S-Wind said:
Yet they manage to avoid scrutiny for it time and time again.

White skin = Teflon.
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It is different in other cultures though. I mean in the west most people are white, but in Asia white people are the "bad" guys.

Some british guy hits a Chinese woman? All white guys are scum.
Some white guy sleeps has an asian gf? dey teek er girls!

These are the things that make the news in Asia, while still most crimes are commited by their "own" people.

Enron said:
So, are we to simply remove people from society who have ever uttered or laughed at some sort of racist bullshit?

And lol @ all of a sudden being a teenager and then 1 year later magically becoming a functional, emotionally mature adult.
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It is a process. If you are 11, no problem.
If you are 14/15 you should know that these things are not right.
If you are 16/17 think about the consequences.
If you are 19/20/21 you should totally know that this is shitty behaviour.

And yeah. If you are attending a university, you should be intelligent enough not to say such shit, even if that might be your opinion.
 
Enron said:
Yeah, something tells me that joking about hanging someone on a tree isn't exactly the same thing as actually wanting to do it.
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You get caught on camera smiling and singing about how you're never going to let black people into your organization.

You don't get to have that organization anymore

You don't get to attend the school that makes attending that organization possible.

This isn't a life-ruining situation. There are millions upon millions of people whose lives aren't "ruined" because they can't or don't go to a major university. You're working from a premise that says these kids' lives are ultimately lesser because they're not allowed a specific form of higher education, while these kids are actively contributing to a mindset that makes MILLIONS of people's lives lesser. That's bullshit. If they want to improve their lives, they're still able to do so.

They can go to a junior college. They can go to a different state college. They can move to a different state. Or they can self-educate and/or join the workforce and move through the ranks. They have an entire life, and DECADES of opportunities to build from, and now they have a giant mistake they can make up for. Maybe it will provide them the incentive to improve their lives, and other people's lives.

But to just flat out assume their lives would be ruined because they got expelled from a state university for being blatantly racist on camera is unrealistic, and shortsighted.

Kick em the fuck out.
 
Chairmanchuck said:
It is different in other cultures though. I mean in the west most people are white, but in Asia white people are the "bad" guys.

Some british guy hits a Chinese woman? All white guys are scum.
Some white guy sleeps has an asian gf? dey teek er girls!

These are the things that make the news in Asia, while still most crimes are commited by their "own" people.
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huh
 
Enron said:
So, are we to simply remove people from society who have ever participated in a chant that includes the lines "hanging from a tree" implying that black people should be lynched.

And lol @ all of a sudden being a teenager and then 1 year later magically becoming a functional, emotionally mature adult.
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FTFY. Yes, remove those people from society.
 
Surprising absolutely no one, I don't think that they should be expelled. I believe there should be consequences, absolutely. Is this wrong? Again, absolutely.

At the same time, I'm aware of how people can change and behave because of the people around them. In certain cases where assault of any kind is committed, absolutely put them out. Put them in prison, even. But getting a group of young adults to say/think racist things about black people? Pedestrian in modern America.

Basically: Find some way to establish that this is not okay without tossing out developing adults entirely. But that's just me.
 
I'm not sure how kicking these people out of school means they are "cast out of society". There are plenty of people in the United States who don't receive a formal education. Why should we be worried about these students wasting theirs?
 
Volimar said:
Don't dogpile Enron, he's just giving his opinion. Not wanting people's lives ruined for the rest of their lives over a song doesn't make him racist. I'm in favor of expulsion, but I do see what he's trying to say.

Also, that 10 Hitlers line was funny.
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I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to dogpill him. It's just the inevitable outcome that happens when you hold a minority opinion. But when you make such an opinion you better be damn sure you can back it up.

Enron said:
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel despite this thread trying to make it sound like i'm donning a fucking hood. Kids do and say a lot of stupid shit, and although you may not have done or said anything quite like this at 19, 20, 21 - chances are if you are in your 30s now you look back at that age and wonder what the fuck you were thinking.
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Key word "chances". What if they don't change? Look at that list again. Chances are that atleast one of them will get a position like that which means that they'll have a lot of power over those same "Niggers" they didn't want at SAE. Why take that chance?
 
Pretty disgusting. But glad the HQ acted quickly to nuke them from campus.

Fraternities can be great. These members decided to be fuckfaces. Oh well.

Edit: And you probably can't expell anyone over this. Ultimately no crime was committed. Maybe if there are specific examples of the membership denying people based solely on race. Would probably need a complaint for that.

And Greek letter organizations are by definition exclusionary since most do not admit the opposite sex and do not get funding from the school. So there is probably little the university can do without getting sued for free speech issues.
 
Vermillion said:
Surprising absolutely no one, I don't think that they should be expelled. I believe there should be consequences, absolutely. Is this wrong? Again, absolutely.

At the same time, I'm aware of how people can change and behave because of the people around them. In certain cases where assault of any kind is committed, absolutely put them out. Put them in prison, even. But getting a group of young adults to say/think racist things about black people? Pedestrian in modern America.

Basically: Find some way to establish that this is not okay without tossing out developing adults entirely. But that's just me.
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And isn't that the problem.
 
If that girl is trying to record it while her date(?) tries to stop her is doing it for the right reasons, props to her. That's just awful.
 
DoktorEvil said:
They might as well just say "put them in prison" if they're not saying it outright.

But being thrown out of the frat would be a start.
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Well, seeing as how that chapter has immediately ceased to exist, they've definitely been thrown out of the frat.
 
HOMEBOY OVER HERE said:
fraternity greek life shit is pretty much for fuckboys and hoes
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You'll be shocked to learn that there are varying types of people across the thousands of campuses, thousands of chapters, and thousands of students who are in Greek life.

Crossing Eden said:
Not letting them attend top schools to graduate to become future CEOs of company would certainly be a great start.
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How can you legally do this, though?
 
Zoned said:
Sometimes I wonder how people like these can even study in college. I mean how dumb can you be that you can't even recognize what you are saying.
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They don't? I mean. You can afford it (by that i mean your wealty parents) pretty much you can do whatever the fuck you want¡¡ Study? That's for nerds. I already got a job at my parents business.
 
Vermillion said:
At the same time, I'm aware of how people can change and behave because of the people around them..
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I feel expulsion from a state college is a fine catalyst for personal change.

It's not like there aren't adequate alternatives if one feels like continuing to pursue their higher education.

This is hate speech, captured on camera. Losing your ability to attend a specific school is a perfectly reasonable punishment in response to that transgression.

There's a ton of other schools they can attend and (hopefully) successfully attempt not being a racist shitheel while doing it.
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
You'll be shocked to learn that there are varying types of people across the thousands of campuses, thousands of chapters, and thousands of students who are in Greek life.


How can you legally do this, though?
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Maybe the "white community" should hold themselves accountable, just like how they tell the "black community" too.
 
Squirrel Killer said:
That doesn't "remove those people from society."
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It removes them from positions of power. That helps society as a whole.

GoldenEye 007 said:
How can you legally do this, though?
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It's not illegal to expel people for hate speech. Certainly not illegal for investors to refuse to give them scholarships and all the other perks that come with their standing.
 
Dai101 said:
They don't? I mean. You can afford it (by that i mean your wealty parents) pretty much you can do whatever the fuck you want¡¡ Study? That's for nerds. I already got a job at my parents business.
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From my experience, Greek members generally have higher GPAs versus the rest of the campus population. I'm talking overall, men, and women. Generally more campus involvement and volunteering too.

That's not to say there aren't major issues when it comes to things like drinking and partying, date rape, etc.
 
I don't really see what's wrong with kicking them out. I mean, on one hand I actually do think that people in the 18-23 age bracket aren't really fully developed adults yet, and I believe in rehabilitation and the potential for these people to improve, but on another hand, using that logic no one should ever get kicked out of school. I mean, you can use that excuse for college kids who plagiarize but they're ultimately still kicked out of school as well. Like someone else said getting kicked out of school isn't really a way to "get cast out of society," you can still potentially find your way into a university and get a college education later in life. I wish there was some way we could ensure that these people become rehabilitated and make them realize and internalize that what they did was horrendous, but I can't really think of anything that would guarantee that.
 
BobbyRoberts said:
You get caught on camera smiling and singing about how you're never going to let black people into your organization.

You don't get to have that organization anymore

You don't get to attend the school that makes attending that organization possible.

This isn't a life-ruining situation. There are millions upon millions of people whose lives aren't "ruined" because they can't or don't go to a major university. You're working from a premise that says these kids' lives are ultimately lesser because they're not allowed a specific form of higher education, while these kids are actively contributing to a mindset that makes MILLIONS of people's lives lesser. That's bullshit. If they want to improve their lives, they're still able to do so.

They can go to a junior college. They can go to a different state college. They can move to a different state. Or they can self-educate and/or join the workforce and move through the ranks. They have an entire life, and DECADES of opportunities to build from, and now they have a giant mistake they can make up for. Maybe it will provide them the incentive to improve their lives, and other people's lives.

But to just flat out assume their lives would be ruined because they got expelled from a state university for being blatantly racist on camera is unrealistic, and shortsighted.

Kick em the fuck out.
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I agree, good post.
 
Enron said:
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel despite this thread trying to make it sound like i'm donning a fucking hood. Kids do and say a lot of stupid shit, and although you may not have done or said anything quite like this at 19, 20, 21 - chances are if you are in your 30s now you look back at that age and wonder what the fuck you were thinking.
Click to expand...

All the fratbros I know in their 30s still act like a bunch of fucking assholes, and gets worse when they hang out with their old frat buddies. None of them reflect on their behavior negatively at all. They all treat life as an extended frat party.

Maybe some grow out of it, but many don't and it fucking oozes out of corporate workforces like crazy. I feel like all the Marketing departments I've been exposed to are the worst group as a whole. There is a reason HR departments are necessary.
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
From my experience, Greek members generally have higher GPAs versus the rest of the campus population. I'm talking overall, men, and women. Generally more campus involvement and volunteering too.

That's not to say there aren't major issues when it comes to things like drinking and partying, date rape, etc.
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Well, its easier to have a higher GPA when you've got more time to study and volunteer for things (that you are probably forced to do anyways). Typically, Greek members are folks who can afford the dues along with the tuition and everything else (family is paying for it) and they aren't having to work to ensure they can still eat while in school. I knew a handful of Sigma Chis when I as at UGA due to my roommate being a member, and pretty much every greek i ever encountered falls into this group.
 
BobbyRoberts said:
You get caught on camera smiling and singing about how you're never going to let black people into your organization.

You don't get to have that organization anymore

You don't get to attend the school that makes attending that organization possible.

This isn't a life-ruining situation. There are millions upon millions of people whose lives aren't "ruined" because they can't or don't go to a major university. You're working from a premise that says these kids' lives are ultimately lesser because they're not allowed a specific form of higher education, while these kids are actively contributing to a mindset that makes MILLIONS of people's lives lesser. That's bullshit. If they want to improve their lives, they're still able to do so.

They can go to a junior college. They can go to a different state college. They can move to a different state. Or they can self-educate and/or join the workforce and move through the ranks. They have an entire life, and DECADES of opportunities to build from, and now they have a giant mistake they can make up for. Maybe it will provide them the incentive to improve their lives, and other people's lives.

But to just flat out assume their lives would be ruined because they got expelled from a state university for being blatantly racist on camera is unrealistic, and shortsighted.

Kick em the fuck out.
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This sounds nice.

But the school will have to make sure this is legally possible. Is saying racist things even on camera grounds for expulsion at a public university? I'm going to assume no.

If the school acts against the student, they might very well open themselves up to lawsuits over first amendment violations. I'm not sure if what was said would fall under hate speech. Certainly it is hateful, but does it actively threaten anyone specific? I am not sure it does.
 
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