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[Bobby Roberts]

Yes of course. I mean the "public" may not be fine with it, but there is nothing legally that teally can be done.

Again, it happens all the time. I don't even know what you're talking about, honestly.

Being caught on camera singing a song about how you'd rather lynch a black person than let them into your organization can legally be defined as hate speech, and you can be expelled for that speech.

 

[Yaboosh]

You guys are confusing me. It seems to me that whenever someone says something racist, they usually get media attention, step down or are fired. And then move on to another job or whatever elsewhere if it's a big enough deal. I'm asking, are there legal ramifications other than public disapproval, which is passing?

No. Freedom of speech.

You can't incite people to commit crimes. But you can talk about how much you hate any given race.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I guess people who want to say racist things feel comfortable knowing someone's got an excuse for them at every age

Teenagers: All teens say dumb things
College: Not really adults, have their whole lives ahead of them
Late 20s: Were probably sheltered, need to be educated (usually by the minorities they shit on)
30s~50s: Hey, they need to work and have families (which are not more important than racist Facebook post under their real name!)
50s~60s: They're a product of those times, can't blame dear old grandma/grandpa
60s~: All the racists will be dead soon

repeat

Pretty much.

 

[Toxi]

Shut all the SAE's down.

Not surprised. I've seen my share of Confederate Flags in colleges. Freaky assholes.

 

[entremet]

Threats aren't protected speech. Doing this chant in a bus with no intention of it getting out isn't really a threat, but doing this exact chant directed at an individual black person would be a straight up threat and a hate crime.

That's a possible. You're right. But groups and individuals have gotten away with worse in terms of bigotry and rancor under 1st Amendment law.

 

[CrushDance]

No. Freedom of speech.

You can't incite people to commit crimes. But you can talk about how much you hate any given race.

And the stepping stone from words to actions, is what's known as the slippery slope?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Public schools can and do punish students for unacceptable speech all the time. It's not even a particularly remarkable event.

Are you sure? At the university level? Can you find any examples of this?

ACLU seems to disagree there.

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/hate-speech-campus

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Pretty sure freedom of speech doesn't include hate speech.

Pretty sure it does.

 

[Vermillion]

And isn't that the problem.

Absolutely. I just couldn't think of another way to end the paragraph at the time.

I feel expulsion from a state college is a fine catalyst for personal change.

It's not like there aren't adequate alternatives if one feels like continuing to pursue their higher education.

This is hate speech, captured on camera. Losing your ability to attend a specific school is a perfectly reasonable punishment in response to that transgression.

There's a ton of other schools they can attend and (hopefully) successfully attempt not being a racist shitheel while doing it.

Emphasis on "captured on camera." I can assure you right now that the people that go on to be CEOs and politicians have learned to do all but say "nigger."

That said, knowing the way that things like this happen, I really do believe that expulsion is extreme.

 

[Codeblue]

Shut all the SAE's down.

We should probably just shut Oklahoma down to be safe.

You seriously can't go ten minutes walking around without seeing some moron waving that flag.

 

[entremet]

Are you sure? At the university level? Can you find any examples of this?

ACLU seems to disagree there.

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/hate-speech-campus

K-12 institutions are pseudo dictatorships. Principals can enforce tons of regulations. Maybe that's what Bobby meant.

University level affords more protections to students since they're no longer minors--mostly.

 

[Sch1sm]

Pretty sure it does.

That was already corrected. I made an analogous assumption based on my own laws here, lol. Surely there's some sort of limitation in place. You guys can run round and say anything? Crazy.

It actually does.

You cannot be prosecuted by the State of hate speech in the United States.

Interesting. We (Canada) actually have laws in place specifically for hate speech. You can get convicted and fined for promoting hatred or discriminating based on race, age sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, etc, here.

 

[mechashiva]

Shut all the SAE's down.

Seen there tonight and all the time all over town all the time.

 

[Zoned]

Was this in America?

I have no opinion on the penalty, but it doesn't sound that is possible in the US due to 1st amendment.

First amendment doesn't protect you from hate speech when it promotes imminent violence.

 

[entremet]

Interesting. We (Canada) actually have laws in place specifically for hate speech. You can get convicted and fined for promoting hatred or discriminating based on race, age sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, etc, here.

I think this is where GAF's international flavor and various laws for each jurisdiction, causes confusion.

US Free Speech laws are amongst the most broad in the West.

 

[Yaboosh]

And the stepping stone from words to actions, is what's known as the slippery slope?

Slippery slope means all sorts things depending on context, but that isn't really one of them.

It is more give an inch they take a mile. Legalize pot what is next, legalizing meth? Legalize gay marriage, what is next, beastiality? That kind of crap.

 

[CrushDance]

Interesting. We (Canada) actually have laws in place specifically for hate speech. You can get convicted and fined for promoting hatred or discriminating based on race, age sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, etc, here.

Now I'm not sure what's worse though. Because at least in America, we can see the racism everyday and it's right there in the open. But here in Canada, it's almost as if it doesn't exist. Hmm...

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Smh.

I've never liked greek life culture.

Yeah.

When I was a Freshman at UCSC, one of the Greeks took it up a notch by stealing one of the Koi from the Koi Pond and then cooking and eating it on whatever MTV reality show they were on.

That's stealing from private property and cruelty to animals. And they aired it on live TV.

It went to trial. I hope it was worth it for both the frat and MTV.

 

[HappyBivouac]

pretty sure they recognize the difference between black people and n-words

What the fuck?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

K-12 institutions are pseudo dictatorships. Principals can enforce tons of regulations. Maybe that's what Bobby meant.

Yep. At that point in the discussion, "Public Schools" was what was being discussed.

That said, knowing the way that things like this happen, I really do believe that expulsion is extreme.

I don't at all. There are still plenty of opportunities for those seen smiling and singing along. Expulsion from a state university isn't extreme. That particular door shouldn't be closed. It's highly probably, considering the money that is likely behind these kids, that the doors left available to them look like the warehouse in Monsters Inc.

 

[freeofgreed]

Now I'm not sure what's worse though. Because at least in America, we can see the racism everyday and it's right there in the open. But here in Canada, it's almost as if it doesn't exist. Hmm...

America's is easily worse. In America we have both the redneck in your face racism, and the subtle closet racists. I'd rather deal with just one type instead of both.

 

[Aesius]

Fraternities in the South are jam packed full of the biggest racist douchebags imaginable. I know this is Oklahoma, but I imagine the culture isn't terribly different there.

I knew a lot of frat guys at SEC/large southern schools and partied with them on occasion, and I'm really not exaggerating when I say that 95% of them would probably join in on a chant like this without giving it a second thought.

 

[Enron]

That was already corrected. I made an analogous assumption based on my own laws here, lol. Surely there's some sort of limitation in place. You guys can run round and say anything? Crazy.

No, we can't. There are limits. I'm not a law expert, but stuff like what is in this video doesn't seem to rise to the legal limit of when hate speech ceases to be legally ok.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Yep. At that point in the discussion, "Public Schools" was what was being discussed.

Oh so you were just being obtuse lol. The context of the thread is clearly colleges. And that is what I was referring to.

K-12 is a different ballgame. US Supreme Court has held kids basically have no rights in public schools.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Hey look frat kids making asses of themselves....

The whole frat thing is so alien and confusing to me.

.

 

[Dai101]

I guess people who want to say racist things feel comfortable knowing someone's got an excuse for them at every age

Teenagers: All teens say dumb things
College: Not really adults, have their whole lives ahead of them
Late 20s: Were probably sheltered, need to be educated (usually by the minorities they shit on)
30s~50s: Hey, they need to work and have families (which are not more important than racist Facebook post under their real name!)
50s~60s: They're a product of those times, can't blame dear old grandma/grandpa
60s~: All the racists will be dead soon

repeat

BRAVO Sir. I owe you a case of beer. Magnificent.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

That was already corrected. I made an analogous assumption based on my own laws here, lol. Surely there's some sort of limitation in place. You guys can run round and say anything? Crazy.



Interesting. We (Canada) actually have laws in place specifically for hate speech. You can get convicted and fined for promoting hatred or discriminating based on race, age sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, etc, here.

Our Free Speech Laws are legally okay with anything except inciting harm (ex: Let's burn all the Blacks) or something like yelling fire in a theater.

 

[TheSeks]

Fraternities in the South are jam packed full of the biggest racist douchebags imaginable. I know this is Oklahoma, but I imagine the culture isn't terribly different there.

It's not, if their politicians are anything to go by. Oklahoma's politics are nearly as batshit crazy as Florida's.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Oh so you were just being obtuse lol.

I don't think I was being obtuse at all.

Obtuse would be rushing to claim some semblance of legal precedent to wade into a thread about racists being racist to ensure people see you arguing for their rights to continue attending a specific university with no repercussions whatsoever for their blatantly racist actions.

When the opportunity arose, this was the side of the hill you decided to fight on.

 

[Sch1sm]

What the fuck?

Er. I'm going to wager a guess they meant they can't differentiate who would actually be a "negro." i.e. People of East African descent weren't in the slave trade kind of deal. But they're all black, so I'm confused.

Now I'm not sure what's worse though. Because at least in America, we can see the racism everyday and it's right there in the open. But here in Canada, it's almost as if it doesn't exist. Hmm...

It exists on that hushed scale. I dunno. I'm black and I haven't had any large scale problem with it here in Toronto.

No, we can't. There are limits. I'm not a law expert, but stuff like what is in this video doesn't seem to rise to the legal limit of when hate speech ceases to be legally ok.

But I've been told twice now that there's nothing there in this thread alone. If I weren't on a phone, I'd google myself. Bit of a mixup, however.

Our Free Speech Laws are legally okay with anything except inciting harm (ex: Let's burn all the Blacks) or something like yelling fire in a theater.

Canadian Human Rights Act argues otherwise. Whether they're followed through with or not is an entirely different question.

 

[Delta Assault]

That was already corrected. I made an analogous assumption based on my own laws here, lol. Surely there's some sort of limitation in place. You guys can run round and say anything? Crazy.

Free speech does not protect incitement to riot/imminent lawless action, defamation, obscenity, child porn, threats, and fighting words.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I guess people who want to say racist things feel comfortable knowing someone's got an excuse for them at every age

Teenagers: All teens say dumb things
College: Not really adults, have their whole lives ahead of them
Late 20s: Were probably sheltered, need to be educated (usually by the minorities they shit on)
30s~50s: Hey, they need to work and have families (which are not more important than racist Facebook post under their real name!)
50s~60s: They're a product of those times, can't blame dear old grandma/grandpa
60s~: All the racists will be dead soon

repeat

Quoting this post for future reference. Damn good.

 

[Vermillion]

I don't at all. There are still plenty of opportunities for those seen smiling and singing along. Expulsion from a state university isn't extreme. That particular door shouldn't be closed. It's highly probably, considering the money that is likely behind these kids, that the doors left available to them look like the warehouse in Monsters Inc.

Well let's do this another way: what would expulsion accomplish?

 

[Squirrel Killer]

That was already corrected. I made an analogous assumption based on my own laws here, lol. Surely there's some sort of limitation in place. You guys can run round and say anything? Crazy.

There are limitations, but they are narrow. Even the "fire in a crowded theater" limit that people drag out to defend speech restrictions is much more narrow than most people realize.

Interesting. We (Canada) actually have laws in place specifically for hate speech. You can get convicted and fined for promoting hatred or discriminating based on race, age sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, etc, here.

And that's all fine and well until you get a regime in place that decides that your speech promotes hatred or is discriminating.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Well let's do this another way: what would expulsion accomplish?

Appreciable, stinging rebuke.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

pretty sure they recognize the difference between black people and n-words

For asking what this means in context....

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

 

[thepotatoman]

Er. I'm going to wager a guess they meant they can't differentiate who would actually be a "negro." i.e. People of East African descent weren't in the slave trade kind of deal. But they're all black, so I'm confused.

No, they mean that n-word is an insult, but believe it's ok to use it if you acknowledge that not all black people are n-words, and some white people are n-words.

Basically they still subscribe to the negative racial stereotype, but acknowledge there are exceptions to the rule, and think that is what makes it ok.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well let's do this another way: what would expulsion accomplish?

Letting people know that this shit isn't acceptable and that there are real consequences for words.

I don't know if it's legally possible for a public University to expel them just based off of their words, though.

 

[StoopKid]

So did one of the members put this on the Internet or did someone hack them?

Either way I hope they all get expelled.

 

[Tamanon]

Assholes all of them. And the best part is that they will be protected for the rest of their lives by other fraternity members. So no actual negative for them from this. Will just harden their racism.

 

[Enzom21]

What the fuck?

I am pretty sure it is satirizing this:

Surprise surprised, Enron is making excuses for this and doesn't considered it discrimination.

 

[Yaboosh]

Assholes all of them. And the best part is that they will be protected for the rest of their lives by other fraternity members. So no actual negative for them from this. Will just harden their racism.

I very seriously doubt this.

These guys will be rejected hard. Disowned.

Their racism will probably indeed be hardened though.

 

[sooperkool]

You can get kicked out of school for cheating but these guys should be given another chance, FOH.

 

[danm999]

Well let's do this another way: what would expulsion accomplish?

What does expelling any student for a non-violent offence accomplish?

 

[theWB27]

Well let's do this another way: what would expulsion accomplish?

Lets them know there are consequences to being ignorant. It's really not that hard a concept.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I don't think I was being obtuse at all.

Obtuse would be rushing to claim some semblance of legal precedent to wade into a thread about racists being racist to ensure people see you arguing for their rights to continue attending a specific university with no repercussions whatsoever for their blatantly racist actions.

When the opportunity arose, this was the side of the hill you decided to fight on.

No, you are. Why bring up K-12 at all? You knew this applied to universities and that is the context.

As for the passive aggressive tone of your post. You can lay right off that.

I already said this was disgusting. There is no discussion there. The point of me responding to the other stuff is for education. As nice as it would be to see them expelled, it likely can't and won't happen. If it does, you'll just see OU get sued which negatively affects the overall campus even more.

I'm simply stating why they legally are protected. That's the reality. Doesn't matter what you or I might actually want to happen. There are tons of people saying why not expel them? And I'm just stating why. You can choose to ignore that reality, but that's on you. Government agencies cannot punish college students for unsavory speech. Unless of course there is a specific threat being made. If their general counsel can't find that, then they will stay.

 

[freeofgreed]

Well let's do this another way: what would expulsion accomplish?

1.Set a precedent letting people know it won't be tolerated.

2. Would spare the rest of the student body from having to interact with this scum.

3. Could cause the catalyst that will make them reevaluate there racism (I don't believe this will happen, but so many people in this thread do apparently so I'll slap it on.)

 

[RibMan]

Well let's do this another way: what would expulsion accomplish?

Expelling the students would be establishing a zero-tolerance policy for racist and hateful behavior at the institution. It's literally that simple.

 

[outsida]

Thanks Obama...

 

[entremet]

You can get kicked out of school for cheating but these guys should be given another chance, FOH.

Pretty crazy when you look at it like that, tbh.

Cheating is also super rampant in colleges.