Support NeoGAF

[Crossing Eden]

Pretty much, all I see is that he's got a gun and is scaring a hostage. A far more controversial cover would be. . .

This one is super creepy. The one in the OP not as much as it's exactly what I'd expect from The Joker. As in the most psychotic comic book villain of all time.

 

[GringoSuave89]

What...I can name tons of times Poison Ivy has used the same to attack someone. Or Harley. Or Catwoman.

She shot someone, let them start bleeding out, paralyzed them, then took advantage of their body? Guess I need to read comics more.

How does this cover evoke sexuality? She's fully dressed

It's evoking the storyline. A storyline that, in reference to Batgirl, is notable for paralyzing her and taking advantage of her in a sexually degrading manner. So, yeah, I get it. Is she just terrified cause he has a gun? Sure. But the connection is that he was someone that sexually assaulted her, he's wearing the same outfit as that attack, and that's what the image is suppose to convey.

Do I want the cover banned/recalled? No, it's a variant, who cares. But it's pretty fucked for a company that has a hard time not offending women/feminists every month.

 

[PsychBat!]

And comic readers wonder why more people don't want to buy comics.

I don't get it.

 

[cutmeamango]

Magazine should be removed and the cover artist should hopefully never get a job again if he doesn't issue an apology. I'll start a twitter campaign if anyone hasn't already.

 

[hodayathink]

They wouldn't because Batman isn't the same as Batgirl. Babs isn't like Bruce Wayne. She isn't a stone cold badass and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. She is still a hero.

If Wonder Woman was in this position then it'd be super weird.

Then here's a different question: Would they ever do this cover with Robin or any of the other Batman sidekicks?

 

[bryanee]

.

Do I want the cover banned/recalled? No, it's a variant, who cares. But it's pretty fucked for a company that has a hard time not offending women/feminists every month.

So DC shouldn't make any reference to one of the best Joker/Batman/Gordon/Babs stories of all time any more?

If yes then fuck that.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Unlike the Batman one, this is not an issue.

 

[Valhelm]

It's a creepy cover, but I think it's effective and pretty well-done.

However, I'm a guy. If I was a woman I don't feel differently. I don't think there's anything offensive about that cover, but I've never personally experienced misogyny or abuse of that nature.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Comic books have a pretty long history of the hero looking powerless against the villain on the cover. It's existed for decades.

 

[Gleethor]

Then here's a different question: Would they ever do this cover with Robin or any of the other Batman sidekicks?

Robin has already been super fucked up by the joker before, they would absolutely do a cover like this with him.

 

[Parallax]

She shot someone, let them start bleeding out, paralyzed them, then took advantage of their body? Guess I need to read comics more.

so are you asking for analogs to the scene with barb?

i mean because if its sexual acts against male heroes, bruce and dick have both been raped

 

[Crossing Eden]

Then here's a different question: Would they ever do this cover with Robin or any of the other Batman sidekicks?

I could definitely see a Robin version of this cover with the joker holding a crowbar instead of a gun.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Then here's a different question: Would they ever do this cover with Robin or any of the other Batman sidekicks?

In terms of bringing up Jason getting his head bashed in with a crowbar? Yeah, cause they've done it before. In a way that Jason is crying/showing weakness in close proximity to the Joker? Nope, cause he's not a female. Not racy enough for them.

So DC shouldn't make any reference to one of the best Joker/Batman/Gordon/Babs stories of all time any more?

If yes then fuck that.

Again, they've done this:

And Tumblr didn't make a peep. TKJ as a whole is not the issue. Her being sexually assaulted is.

so are you asking for analogs to the scene with barb?

i mean because if its sexual acts against male heroes, bruce and dick have both been raped

Have they ever been emasculated by that act, and had covers/storylines built around that? No.

The Dick example, actually, kinda fits, because he was catatonic for a bit afterwards, but again, DC doesn't seem to like drudging that one up every couple months.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Then here's a different question: Would they ever do this cover with Robin or any of the other Batman sidekicks?

 

[ReAxion]

I don't get it.

With comments like that, I don't wonder why at all.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

It's very common to portray men in women clothes are deranged so it kinda comes across as transphobic.

So would Scooby Doo be transphobic as well? There were a good number of similar reactions, men dressing up as women. Women dressing up as men. People dressing up as ghosts, werewolves, etc...

I mean, her reaction was from knowing the person was a guy and being surprised to see him dressed up. I don't get how that's transphobic...

 

[Kinyou]

It's evoking the storyline. A storyline that, in reference to Batgirl, is notable for paralyzing her and taking advantage of her in a sexually degrading manner. So, yeah, I get it. Is she just terrified cause he has a gun? Sure. But the connection is that he was someone that sexually assaulted her, he's wearing the same outfit as that attack, and that's what the image is suppose to convey.

Is it actually confirmed that she was raped in the Killing Joke? The internet seems kind of split about it.
I think the cover is also more to invoke that Babara might get paralyzed again, that seems to be what everyone remembers from the killing joke.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

Then here's a different question: Would they ever do this cover with Robin or any of the other Batman sidekicks?

Probably. If not they should.

 

[aly]

That's a great cover. Yeah, having a hard time understanding the offense considering the reference and relationship between Joker and Batgirl.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

She shot someone, let them start bleeding out, paralyzed them, then took advantage of their body? Guess I need to read comics more.

Not all of that, but I'm pretty sure Poison Ivy has drugged Batman and taken advantage of him. Hell, Damian is the result of Talia date raping Bruce! Maybe you should read more comics...

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I absolutely love it. I'd frame it and put it on my wall.

 

[not_so_special]

So would Scooby Doo be transphobic as well? There were a good number of similar reactions, men dressing up as women. Women dressing up as men. People dressing up as ghosts, werewolves, etc...

I mean, her reaction was from knowing the person was a guy and being surprised to see him dressed up. I don't get how that's transphobic...

everything is transphobic now.. u dont get the memo?

In terms of bringing up Jason getting his head bashed in with a crowbar? Yeah, cause they've done it before. In a way that Jason is crying/showing weakness in close proximity to the Joker? Nope, cause he's not a female. Not racy enough for them.

you arent giving us arguments...you are just in a crusade againts whow knows what...

 

[Mesoian]

So would Scooby Doo be transphobic as well? There were a good number of similar reactions, men dressing up as women. Women dressing up as men. People dressing up as ghosts, werewolves, etc...

I mean, her reaction was from knowing the person was a guy and being surprised to see him dressed up. I don't get how that's transphobic...

If the joke begins and ends with "that guy is in a dress, how creepy" it's not outlandish to think that it's probably transphobic.

I mean shit, I still love Ace Ventura, but that movie goes into a really creepy place in 2015.

 

[jackissocool]

At first, I was like "hm, nothing controversial about that", but then I realized that I also cant really remember any big "male superheroes crying powerless" covers from the past.

Except when holding a dead female lover, of course. Cyclops with dead Jean on the Moon. Spider-Man with Gwen, etc. THAT is expected. But a breakdown of tears out of fear? Unlikely.

So yeah, THIS is not the problem, the problem is that tears usually only are allowed on females. GTFO with that.

That's a good point.

 

[Mesoian]

At first, I was like "hm, nothing controversial about that", but then I realized that I also cant really remember any big "male superheroes crying powerless" covers from the past.

Except when holding a dead female lover, of course. Cyclops with dead Jean on the Moon. Spider-Man with Gwen, etc. THAT is expected. But a breakdown of tears out of fear? Unlikely.

So yeah, THIS is not the problem, the problem is that tears usually only are allowed on females. GTFO with that.

Eh, DareDevil v Punisher...

 

[Maximus.]

This cover is amazing, what the fuck is the problem with some people? Would be just as awesome if even Robin was there in place of Batgirl.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Is it actually confirmed that she was raped in the Killing Joke? The internet seems kind of split about it.
I think the cover is also more to invoke that Babara might get paralyzed again, that seems to be what everyone remembers from the killing joke.

Not raped. That's not what happened nor what anyone thinks. But she was certainly sexually assaulted.

Not all of that, but I'm pretty sure Poison Ivy has drugged Batman and taken advantage of him. Hell, Damian is the result of Talia date raping Bruce! Maybe you should read more comics...

Tumblr isn't a fan of that wonderful Grant Morrison nugget either. I don't see variants of Bruce getting roofied though. Or storylines that has Bruce afraid that someone slipped a drug in his drink.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

If the joke begins and ends with "that guy is in a dress, how creepy" it's not outlandish to think that it's probably transphobic.

I mean shit, I still love Ace Ventura, but that movie goes into a really creepy place in 2015.

I don't think Scooby Doo ever really focused on the gender of the person so much as who it was in the end. Ace Ventura I won't even try and defend

 

[The Adder]

If the joke begins and ends with "that guy is in a dress, how wacky" it's not outlandish to think that it's probably transphobic.

I mean shit, I still love Ace Ventura, but that movie goes into a really creepy place in 2015.

Einhorn wasn't transgendered, he was a man.

 

[Mesoian]

No, that's Marvel:

Still looking for an official poster of this. I want Jamie and Mike to autograph it.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I've bailed out early on a twitter discussion with one of those people as it seems they'll only ever see what they want to see so the discussion is only ever really one-sided.

 

[kmfdmpig]

I think some people are fucking stupid. Not in an opinionated, based on your perspective, sort of way, but in an objective, "you're actually a dumbass" sort of way

Stupid and on a quest to find something to be offended by. It's a lovely combination.

 

[GringoSuave89]

you arent giving us arguments...you are just in a crusade againts whow knows what...

You have very selective vision then. Or you rather just ignore the concerns cause you don't get them. Either way, nice job.

 

[Ahasverus]

So Barbara meets the Joker in this issue or not?

 

[captainpat]

So would Scooby Doo be transphobic as well? There were a good number of similar reactions, men dressing up as women. Women dressing up as men. People dressing up as ghosts, werewolves, etc...

I mean, her reaction was from knowing the person was a guy and being surprised to see him dressed up. I don't get how that's transphobic...

Ugh, I'm not saying the reveal was transphobic. I'm saying it's common to portray men who crossdress as deranged.

 

[Mesoian]

Einhorn wasn't transgendered, he was a man.

That doesn't make the last 20 minutes of that movie any less creepy.

Ugh, I'm not saying the reveal was transphobic. I'm saying it's common to portray men who crossdress as deranged.

Yup, even when they are positive characters.

 

[GringoSuave89]

So Barbara meets the Joker in this issue or not?

Just a Joker theme for the month. He's not in the actual storyline.

 

[The Adder]

So Barbara meets the Joker in this issue or not?

Varients are generally unrelated to content.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

If the joke begins and ends with "that guy is in a dress, how creepy" it's not outlandish to think that it's probably transphobic.

I mean shit, I still love Ace Ventura, but that movie goes into a really creepy place in 2015.

But in this story the characters don't react like the faux Batgirl is crazy and completely disgusting for dressing like Batgirl. I don't really think that was the sole point either.

Then when you consider that the book has a trans character who isn't a joke and isn't negative I think it's more likely it was innocent and not transphobic.

 

[not_so_special]

You have very selective vision then. Or you rather just ignore the concerns cause you don't get them. Either way, nice job.

nah..i just enjoy good comickbook covers,you can continue your righteous crusade fella,good luck with that

I've bailed out early on a twitter discussion with one of those people as it seems they'll only ever see what they want to see so they discussion is only ever really one-sided.

wellcome to social justice fanatics

 

[Parallax]

Have they ever been emasculated by that act, and had covers/storylines built around that? No.

The Dick example, actually, kinda fits, because he was catatonic for a bit afterwards, but again, DC doesn't seem to like drudging that one up every couple months.

bruce has constantly faced the result of his rape in his son though. dick was distant from tarantula despite her thinking there was something there between them.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Not raped. That's not what happened nor what anyone thinks. But she was certainly sexually assaulted.

She was sexually assaulted by Joker?

 

[The Technomancer]

At first, I was like "hm, nothing controversial about that", but then I realized that I also cant really remember any big "male superheroes crying powerless" covers from the past.

Except when holding a dead female lover, of course. Cyclops with dead Jean on the Moon. Spider-Man with Gwen, etc. THAT is expected. But a breakdown of tears out of fear? Unlikely.

So yeah, THIS is not the problem, the problem is that tears usually only are allowed on females. GTFO with that.

Jason is different, because writers don't bring it up half as much as writers do with Barbra and her situation. It isn't so much that those against the cover don't want her interacting with the Joker at all, they're just tired that every time the two are brought together, this particular attack is always brought up, Barbra is traumatized, rise, repeat.



You'd think, right?

Yeah, I can see why people are unhappy

 

[Hero Prinny]

Yep. The cover's awesome, but her crying and looking like that says a lot. It's worth a discussion, at least.

Man, what do you think you're doing right now with this post after just looking at an OP?

i read the op and i see nothing offensive about it. just people getting riled up and looking for a "controversy". If people wanna get all riled up about a cover at least pick one where you can have a solid argument, like this one

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Honestly, I'm surprised that Babs and Joker haven't really faced off against each other again. Has potential to be a powerful story.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

everything is transphobic now.. u dont get the memo?

Grant Morrison wrote a decent transgender character in "The Invisibles". But pretty much all of those characters are fucked up so I don't know how anyone can determine if it is a negative portrayal or not.

 

[Future Foundation]

So, there's apparently a Change.org petition going around to have the cover pulled. Does anyone think we're we gonna have a Milo Manara situation happen?

 

[The Adder]

That doesn't make the last 20 minutes of that movie any less creepy.

Won't disagree. For more reasons than the reaction, in fact. But I do like to note the fact that Einhorn is just a man pretending to be a woman and not a trangendered person. Makes it easier for kids to watch it and not take the wrong message from it.

 

[ronito]

It's an awesome chilling cover. Ultimately I think this manufactured controversy hurts their cause more than it helps. "Put more women in comics and make them powerful and not sex objects. But make sure they're covered up oh and nothing bad can be done to them by men." A lot of writers are just gonna throw their hands up and say" why bother? "

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You have very selective vision then. Or you rather just ignore the concerns cause you don't get them. Either way, nice job.

This is it. Nearly every post in here against the criticisms show the posters haven't put more than a few seconds of thought or research on this. It's just immediate cynical dismissal based on assumptions.

nah..i just enjoy good comickbook covers,you can continue your righteous crusade fella,good luck with that

wellcome to social justice fanatics

For example.

It's an awesome chilling cover. Ultimately I think this manufactured controversy hurts their cause more than it helps. "Put more women in comics and make them powerful and not sex objects. But make sure they're covered up oh and nothing bad can be done to them by men." A lot of writers are just gonna throw their hands up and say" why bother? "

Man, I read all sorts of posts, blogs, articles, tweets, etc. from feminists making sure everyone knows being inclusive and thoughtful doesn't just mean giving us "strong women." Why not engage on what people are actually saying instead of what you want them to be?