MrCunningham
Member
The only controversy here is that there is no controversy at all. What's the big deal?
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Rafael Albuquerque reveals controversial variant cover for Batgirl #41
- Thread starter Messi
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It's been explained
Variants as in the other Joker month variants. Someone linked them earlier.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Writing a character is different than presenting a character. Can you show me a cover where Batman is submissive, fearful, and visibly upset by someone besides "muh memories"?
Perhaps you should take your own advice and bail - I'll assume that you meant bail - out of this thread.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
But that context really doesn't mean much. Even if he's the only one who drew like this, this is his art style. It makes much more sense to see what other covers he draws rather comparing him to other random artists. I'm not sure what the other comparison would prove except that there is a lot diversity.
He also did this one for this months Batgirl Endgame oneshot.
also cool.
Nice, I hadn't seen that yet. I was just thinking of earlier covers he's done.
not_so_special
Banned
you mean the covers people have been posting on this same thread?
perhaps you wanna have some knowledge of batman comics before making false assumptions
nah...they will said to you ...bu bu we dont wanna get this thing banned...nah..they just wanna this thing to no exist
There is a petition to get the cover pulled.
Charlie Hebdo all over again then, and same standard should applied too.
Petition from private citizens = terrorist attack?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Who's saying anything is objectively wrong?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Upon examining every single "counter cover" in this thread, I saw:
Two of Batman afraid of the Scarecrow, a character noted for his ability to drive even the most powerfully willed people to fear.
One of Batman mourning someone (this is not even remotely equivalent to the cover)
One of Batman consoling Robin (again, not equivalent)
Zero of Batman submissive and pushed to tears because of how afraid he is. Shit, if I added the stipulation that it can't be a character famous for his ability to make people afraid, there are no covers that even remotely fit what I'm asking for. The Joker is not noteworthy for his ability to drive people to fear. He CAN, but that is not his gimmick.
The counter covers are pretty pathetic rebuttals, FYI. None of them remotely match the cover in the OP.
So what you're saying is that criticizing a comic is like killing people
Revolutionary
Member
I don't read comics anymore so I'm a little confused as to why the cover exists. Are they retelling TKJ?
NullPointer
Member
So does any hero, and usually on their covers because those covers usually show the villain of the issue at their most threatening, just before they get their butts kicked.
I really do have a hard time with the arithmetic at play here, if a Batman cover has to be shown to have those exact features to make this one somehow OK. I guess I'll leave that to those who specialize in such things.
C'mon, I don't like it but let's not hyperbole to the max here.
A petition doesn't give them the right to anything on the artwork anyway. If the artist is confident in his cover, he'll keep it. Otherwise he might change it or just make one the next time to respond to the demand, who knows.
But this ain't no charlie where satirists are shot dead by religious nuts
Its a variant cover for a month of covers about the joker.
The story wont be about The Killing Joke.
not_so_special
Banned
i think he mean all the people who attacked charlie on social media after the attacks ,those ones who dont understand how french satire worked
WrenchNinja
Member
That's what she's doing. Babs is reliving her terror of when she was shot and violated? That's what the cover is evoking?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yes? Is that not what you get from that? With the explicit reference to those events in the form of Joker's outfit?
A Link to the Past
Banned
I wasn't asking for an example of her, I wanted an example of Batman going through something similar. In her cover, she's at the behest of The Joker, a pretty normalish villain; no fear gas, no nutso super powers. Counter covers use Scarecrow, who is famed for bringing people to irrational fear. If there was a cover showing Scarecrow terrorizing Barbara, I wouldn't mind it at all, because it makes 100% perfect sense.
WrenchNinja
Member
It is what I get from that. What I don't get is the "muh memories" comment.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Two totally overrated comics right there.
If you like them, that a fine. Not my cup of tea.
Oh, well i'm pretty sure DC has dealt with pleeeeenty of stuff like that in the past at this point. Looking at this thread, the cover has more supporters than critics, and the artist are (hopefully) big boys who can handle it.
I'd be miffed to see the cover go though, I think it's a really good piece of art.
Revolutionary
Member
Hmm. Well, I can see why some would think of the cover as exploitative then.
Just an FYI: This is a dumb statement.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Wow... So it's stupid because he doesn't have super powers? Wow.
Having trouble figuring out how you arrived at that being even remotely what he was saying.
not_so_special
Banned
i respect that,but finding offensive that comicbook fans like the most awared comic writer on history is well...i dont know..
Supermanisdead
Member
To her, he's not a normalish villain. He's the psychopath who shot her and left her in a wheelchair for months.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
So you didn't read his post? He whined Joker doesn't have super powers and is "normal". He said if it was the same but Scarecrow that he would be perfectly ok with it.
EightBitNate
Member
Why are the smaller mediums (games, comics) attacked more often than bigger ones (video, music) when it comes to being misogynistic? Or it at least seems that way. Movies and music portray way worse images way more often.
WrenchNinja
Member
No I'm saying she's reliving her memories of trauma. Joker isn't a normal villain for her. I didn't understand why you were dismissing Batman's trauma as "muh memories" at the same time.
Anyway I don't have any covers for Batman off the top of my head but I did post a Tim Drake cover earlier in the thread with him tied up in terror with a gun pointed at his head by the Joker.
WE also haven't seen all the covers. There will be 20-30 of them
Cover is pretty cool alone, but when you put it with the context of the killing joke and think about the torture scene from that it's pretty bad. I can see why women comic fans in the know would not like it.
it would be like re releasing the Accused with Jodie Foster with a cover with a bunch of shirtless guys around a pin ball table.
it would be like re releasing the Accused with Jodie Foster with a cover with a bunch of shirtless guys around a pin ball table.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Joker doing what joker does
A Link to the Past
Banned
Because depictions of characters in video games and comics are made - and usually by white men (not always, but usually). Music and film can be problematic, but the "creation" process is less involved.
Rape shouldn't be a superpower :v
They aren't. These mediums just have fans that react far more to this sort of criticism. Movies have been dealing with this sort of stuff for ages and nobody bats an eye. Games get it and we get embarassments like Gamergate.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Most characters in Batman don't really have super powers. That's the point... Calling him a "normal" villain in the context of that series is beyond ignorant.
She suffers from PTSD from getting shot so its not that crazy of a reaction.
not psycho
Member
Certainly makes moments like this more meaningful
In that case, I wouldn't call it a dumb decision. And it takes on a different light juxtaposed with this image. It still might be too much darker than the regular book, but if the referenced story is important to the character and the book, it's not totally crazy to put it on a cover. I can also understand people being upset by it, it is unsettling after all, but it would be going too far to say they were crazy to use it.
Some of the complaints seem to be more about the referenced story than the cover itself, actually. Batman has been tortured by Joker, but that isn't an essential part of his formation as a character. If, and that's a big if, we take for granted that the referenced story is currently an essential and valuable part of Barbara's character, then "why not Batman too" isn't a good criticism even if true. The criticism would be that perhaps too many female characters have "being tortured" as essential parts of their character, not that an admittedly essential characteristic be pictured.
A Link to the Past
Banned
And my point was that the examples of Batman in sheer terror were because of a character's power.
EightBitNate
Member
Why should that matter though? The only thing that should matter is the resulting image.
Video games and comics just seem like easy targets or something.
Their efforts are basically wasted though. There are bigger injustices to women to worry about than the assumed relationship a person may draw from 2 nonfictional characters.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Any cover with him crying over his parents death is the same thing...Joker isn't a normalish villian in this case BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONE WHO DID THIS TO HER. You guys keep ignoring that, seemingly intentionally. None of Bats villains have ever done anything remotely similar or analagous. The only similar event for him is his parents death
Zombie James
Banned
I think that cover's pretty awesome, actually. What's so offensive about it?
Novel Mike
Member
As someone who doesn't read many comics its pretty graphic and looks quite victimizing. After reading through the topic I'm just wondering if there is a batman cover similar to this, with the villain clearly having 'captured' a hero with the same kind of emotion showing on their face? Either way keep reading before you respond...
FYI I've read through the whole topic but never saw that.
I'm not sure why so many people don't seem to understand the problem many people are having with this cover. First it harkens back to a story that while many people think was really good also made Barbra Gordon a victim and not just any victim a victim of sexual assault (that alone would get people upset) and don't be like "Well Batman has been raped before!" Okay fine he has, but does our society at large have an actual problem where men are frequently being raped? No, but is the opposite true? Yes.
The second is the imagery, this shows Joker dominating Batgirl (not even in a sexual way although once again that's implied from the story the cover is referencing in the first place) hes marked her face(claiming ownership over her person), has his arms all around her and is threatening her, her arms are not shown which likely means shes restrained in some way and thus powerless, and that look of fear in her eyes, that is terror. She is a victim in this image even if nothing has yet to actually happen to her.
Now I ask again, if there any cover in Batman, hell lets go with any super hero where nearly all the same things are going on at once on the same cover? Okay, and is it happening to a male?
I'm sure someone will find something I'll just be curious what people find and where/when it comes from.
FYI I've read through the whole topic but never saw that.
I'm not sure why so many people don't seem to understand the problem many people are having with this cover. First it harkens back to a story that while many people think was really good also made Barbra Gordon a victim and not just any victim a victim of sexual assault (that alone would get people upset) and don't be like "Well Batman has been raped before!" Okay fine he has, but does our society at large have an actual problem where men are frequently being raped? No, but is the opposite true? Yes.
The second is the imagery, this shows Joker dominating Batgirl (not even in a sexual way although once again that's implied from the story the cover is referencing in the first place) hes marked her face(claiming ownership over her person), has his arms all around her and is threatening her, her arms are not shown which likely means shes restrained in some way and thus powerless, and that look of fear in her eyes, that is terror. She is a victim in this image even if nothing has yet to actually happen to her.
Now I ask again, if there any cover in Batman, hell lets go with any super hero where nearly all the same things are going on at once on the same cover? Okay, and is it happening to a male?
I'm sure someone will find something I'll just be curious what people find and where/when it comes from.
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