It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania... why couldn't it work for Metal Gear?

zogged said:
OP, if anything you've given 2 examples as to why giving them out to an external studio is a bad idea and will most likely produce the worst MGS to date if it comes to pass.
Click to expand...

maybe.

but I couldn't even stomach MGS2. I heard good things about 3 and that 4 was basically just a long cutscene.
 
I don't like the talk about Deus Ex HR and Dishonored. They're both good games but that style just isn't Metal Gear. They have the stealth down to a point but it would still need tweaking for it to be a suitable Metal Gear title.

Not that the MGS gameplay style is perfect but I do personally feel that it has a little more to it then DXHR and Dishonored.
 
RealityExists said:
maybe.

but I couldn't even stomach MGS2. I heard good things about 3 and that 4 was basically just a long cutscene.
Click to expand...
MGS3 is the best MGS so far. I'm hoping MGS5 will top it. MGS2 has good gameplay. MGS4 is my least favorite.

I guess what I'm saying is, Kojima/Kojipro focused on gameplay and built/continued the game's lore/universe around it. I wouldn't want anybody with the proper skills to get anywhere near the franchise.
 
What's even funnier than this thread is remembering that Kojima's involvement with Lords of Shadow ensured a nearly unrecognizable product stayed part of the Castlevania series
 
Metal Gear Solid has never been stale. Every single game has been a masterpiece in their own way. I don't think some people (or non fans of the games) realise how important Kojima has been to the series. He is Metal Gear. I don't think there is a single aspect within those games he hasn't personally been involved in crafting design choice wise.
 
GuardianE said:
You made this thread and judged the entire fanbase's reactions without beating MGS2 or MGS3?
Click to expand...

thread is less about my experience with the MGS games and more about the potential for a non-Kojima MGS game not sucking.

it's not rocket science.

I fucking loved the original MGS though. I had a save before every boss fight just so I could experience them again. I can't tell you how hard I tried to get into MGS2 but it was just too strange for my taste at the time.
 
RealityExists said:
it's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

It sure isn't.

My point is that you make a lot of assumptions about a fanbase without baseline knowledge of the series. This thread is predicated upon those assumptions. Of course you wouldn't understand what Kojima's involvement means to these games if you haven't played what many people consider to be the best ones.
 
GuardianE said:
It sure isn't.

My point is that you make a lot of assumptions about a fanbase without baseline knowledge of the series. This thread is predicated upon those assumptions. Of course you wouldn't understand what Kojima's involvement means to these games if you haven't played what many people consider to be the best ones.
Click to expand...

my assumption is based on what can and has happened in the past: Sometimes a changing of the guard can prove beneficial or at the very least an interesting change of pace to a franchise.

Don't like my controversial choices of DmC and LoS. That's fine. As others have said there is a series of games called Metroid Prime that prove this point as well.

In the end, if you enjoy thinking that MGS is fucked, then that's okay. This is all just speculation and it's not that serious anyway. It's just video games. Nothing to be heartbroken over man.
 
RealityExists said:
my assumption is based on what can and has happened in the past: Sometimes a changing of the guard can prove beneficial or at the very least an interesting change of pace to a franchise.

Don't like my controversial choices of DmC and LoS. That's fine. As others have said there is a series of games called Metroid Prime that prove this point as well.

In the end, if you enjoy thinking that MGS is fucked, then that's okay. This is all just speculation and it's not that serious anyway. It's just video games. Nothing to be heartbroken over man.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm upset. I'm not even that big of an MGS fan, but I've played all the mainline games. In fact, I've argued your own point for you in this thread.

I just think yours is an odd position to take for someone who has such limited knowledge of the series.
 
Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

The problem is that I doubt that Konami has talent on the level of Kojima left to make a damn good MG game. MGS4 is Kojima's worst MGS game and it was still better than 90% of games out at the time.
 
GuardianE said:
I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm upset. I'm not even that big of an MGS fan, but I've played all the mainline games. In fact, I've argued your own point for you in this thread.

I just think yours is an odd position to take for someone who has such limited knowledge of the series.
Click to expand...

basically I'm just tired of all the doom and gloom between the nintendo on mobile and the Kojima thing it's all just been a bunch of whining and this thread was just to entertain the thought that it may end up not being the worst thing in the world.
 
Those examples are god-awful. Metroid might be the only one I can think of (and even then, that's more a paradigm shift than the Nintendo/Retro games being objectively better than each other. Although Other M is absolutely worse, so... I guess I've shot myself in the foot.)
 
RealityExists said:
basically I'm just tired of all the doom and gloom between the nintendo on mobile and the Kojima thing it's all just been a bunch of whining and this thread was just to entertain the thought that it may end up not being the worst thing in the world.
Click to expand...

I agree that there have been some theatrics and drama over the past week, and people are similarly making assumptions about the future of MGS based on Konami's track record. We only have history to look at, and history is a mixed bag.

There's also a silver lining to this in that Kojima will now find work and possibly be able to create whatever he wants. He tried getting out of MGS after MGS2 and MGS3, I believe, and he kept getting pulled back in. Fans of Kojima should be able to continue playing games made by him in the future.
 
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Na Ni Nu Ne No

No Means No!
 
Ahaha might as well say it already worked for metal gear. I mean look at how awesome twin snakes and snakes revenge were, right? Right? Or how about those awesome Zelda games on the cdi or whatever it was?
 
No it fucking didn't.

Lords of Shadow and Donte may Cry are garbage.

They both just took bits and pieces from their respective pieces and then built them around weaker gameplay design.
 
robotzombie said:
hahaha, wow I thought this was going to be about DMC still being good after Kamiya and Castlevania going into Symphony of the Night
Click to expand...

Same. That would actually have been a valid argument, but I'm afraid the OP's hindsight doesn't reach that many years back.

Also, I have a hard enough time wrapping my head around the fact that some people considered DmC a good game: I'm not prepared to entertain the notion that someone could actually prefer it to 3 and 4.
 
Ok see even if you do like those games, and I'm not saying they're bad, surely you have to be well aware of how they are generally perceived? What a bizarre choice of examples.

I think Metal Gear could go on, and maybe even something great will come of it. But those specific examples?
 
RealityExists said:
basically I'm just tired of all the doom and gloom between the nintendo on mobile and the Kojima thing it's all just been a bunch of whining and this thread was just to entertain the thought that it may end up not being the worst thing in the world.
Click to expand...

So you made a thread using two really sketchy examples?

Konami is corpse right now when it comes to games. Maybe they'll find continued success somewhere else, but if you think they're still relevant when it comes to gaming? LOL.
 
I could not disagree any less that it fucking "worked".

Especially for DmC. FFS man.

dante2.jpg


Yeah thanks for that one Capcom. I'm sure your fans and people working under you feel like they're being treated with respect.
 
I still think this "DMC was getting stale" narrative is some grade A bullshit spread by the DmC marketing team.

It just wasn't. Each game brought something significant to the table and just felt different from the other ones.

DMC4 wouldn't be the game in the series with the most sales otherwise either.

DmC isn't really that much different either. What's different? Art direction, platforming sections and generally inferior but similar combat system?
 
Hypron said:
I still think this "DMC was getting stale" narrative is some grade A bullshit spread by the DmC marketing team.

It just wasn't. Each game brought something significant to the table and just felt different from the other ones.

DMC4 wouldn't be the game in the series with the most sales otherwise either.

DmC isn't really that much different either. What's different? Art direction, platforming sections and generally inferior but similar combat system?
Click to expand...

DMC4 was a bit rushed so the DMC franchise was getting stale, apparently. I actually do think some parts of classic DMC were getting stale, but I doubt that people saying that are thinking of the same things I'm thinking, and I doubt they had any concrete solutions either.
 
I agree that it "worked" for Castlevania, but not when you are talking about. It worked when IGA got involved during the SOTN days. He brought new life and a new direction to that franchise, but it certainly didn't "work" when they published Lords of Shadows.
 
Sesha said:
DMC4 was a bit rushed so the DMC franchise was getting stale, apparently. I actually do think some parts of classic DMC were getting stale, but I doubt that people saying that are thinking of the same things I'm thinking, and I doubt they had any concrete solutions either.
Click to expand...

Sigh. I vaguely recall some IGN article that was bashing the old games because of its criminally outdated level design - because the levels were composed of rooms, and doors between rooms. DmC was automatically better because it had continuous, door-free levels.
Now sure, the "activate a door, enter the next area with a transition effect" thing feels old-timey when you go back to the old DMCs now, but to call a franchise stale because of minor things like this is absolutely laughable. And I have yet to see anyone explain how DMC was getting stale in actually meaningful aspects.
 
It worked one time with Castlevania but that was because Kojima was involved in the first Lords of Shadow, the same dude they are kicking out. It "never worked" so not sure what you're talking about.
 
I would actually be interested in seeing a western studio take a crack at a Metal Gear game just for shits and giggles.

I cant think of a studio they could get do it though. In a perfect world I would get Rocksteady on it but Warner own them.
 
It wont work for MGS, and it didnt for DMC and Castlevania for one reason: the art in the hand of the true creators will never be replicated as well.

I mean DMC and LoS could be both highly accepted games but if they were not hitchhiking in the original franchises names!
 
Comfort Jones said:
I could not disagree any less that it fucking "worked".

Especially for DmC. FFS man.

dante2.jpg


Yeah thanks for that one Capcom. I'm sure your fans and people working under you feel like they're being treated with respect.
Click to expand...

Is this for real? What's the context, that's rather offensive.
 
Despite the fact that I dig Lords of Shadow, these examples are awful.

A better one would be DMC1->DMC3 and Pre-Rondo of Blood -> Post Rondo of Blood.
 
No, it did not work for Castlevania. It. Did. Not. Work. For. Castlevania. The worst Igavanias are still miles better than the God of War clones.
 
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