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[Comfort Jones]

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

Good lord how'd I miss this post.

Alright anyone still trying to defend this crap I have nothing for you. I feel like this is really all you need to just reject the OP's notion outright because he literally doesn't care about the ip to begin with. The original fans reacted poorly, it sold bad, but OP liked it so "it worked out why don't they give this treatment to more games!"

 

[ezekial45]

If you don't mind, can you elaborate? It's easy to jump to the conclusion that Ninja Theory is making a cheap jab at Dante's sexuality (as I previously assumed before you stated otherwise) and I'd like to hear more.

, could you explain this a bit more?
what about the other images, these "Dante is not this",? they are so strange,

Again, this was two years ago and I can't give you a word for word account of the presentation, but I'll do my best.

The presentation was about Ninja Theory's approach to reinventing Dante for a Western audience. Though the original series had Western elements, it was still an inherently Japanese game in terms of style, design, and interpretation towards Western action and fantasy fiction. The lead artist at Ninja Theory talked about how they wanted to reinvent Dante as an inherently Western character, in terms of style and fiction. Firstly, they looked at Dante's outfit, which was a Japanese interpretation of a cool-badass 'Western' hero. I:E, leather jackets, cowboy boots, stubble, etc.

Next, they moved on to DmC's music and tone being inherently 'Punk' in its approach. During this slide, they showed a side-by-side of what Punk is for both Western and Japanese audiences, the former being loud, angry, and messy, while the later being over the top and flamboyant. Next, they focused on fashion trends for the youth in Japan versus Western culture. Japan having an emphasis again on more over the top and unusual garb, while Western youth have a more subdued approach to flashy attire.

But yeah, that's what those particular slides were about. There were more that weren't seen, such as showing Dane Dehaan's character from Chronicle, the show Dexter, and the movie Perfume, which were also a big influences for DmC. I can't really remember the bulk of the presentation, but it was all about Style and Substance within the context of Japan and Western cultures, and how to reinvent a product that is inherently Japanese for the Western audience.

This article does a good job of showing off the bulk of what the presentation got into.
http://www.destructoid.com/ninja-theory-talks-reboot-and-shows-off-unseen-dante-art-249946.phtml

 

[Branson]

No more a mainline title than Metal Gear Ac!d though.

But that canon story tho

yeah, but it was an spin off action game, ask some of the MG fans on the "original Rising" thread. people complained about the story too.

I would love to have seen that story. There is still time for Platinum to make that game too haha.

 

[IvorB]

Also, as a Kojima-less Metal Gear, Rising was pretty fucking great.

Don't forget that that game was being made by his studio until he personally reviewed what they were doing and decided to take it to Platinum. That game was as much his baby as any other MGS.

 

[LordBaztion]

I'm a huge Castlevania fan but the Iga portable games were just unappealing aside from Aria and Order. Lords of Shadow came as a good change and really like the first one, the second too but there was some misstepes. MoF was entirelly forgeteable.

I liked DmC it was perfect for a newcomer like me. I like the game and preffer it over DMC4, which I played afterwards.

About MGS, I don't think it would be better without Kojima but I really hope the series to finally end (at least the Kojima chapter) and to be rebooted for newcomers. After MGS4 I just feel thebseries is trying to close holes and not progresing narrativelly.

 

[Defuser]

Also, as a Kojima-less Metal Gear, Rising was pretty fucking great.

Which would have been a fucking terrible game if Kojima didnt step in and handed it to Platinum games. Kojima alongside with PG saved Metal Gear Rising.

 

[Branson]

Don't forget that that game was being made by his studio until he personally reviewed what they were doing and decided to take it to Platinum. That game was as much his baby as any other MGS.

Hmm, it has him as the Supervising Director. I thought he wasnt even that on it.

Which would have been a fucking terrible game if Kojima didnt step in and handed it to Platinum games. Kojima alongside with PG saved Metal Gear Rising.

Which is awesome. I'm still curious about what direction a Metal Gear will go without him at all.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I'm a huge Castlevania fan but the Iga portable games were just unappealing aside from Aria and Order. Lords of Shadow came as a good change and really like the first one, the second too but there was some misstepes. MoF was entirelly forgeteable.

I liked DmC it was perfect for a newcomer like me. I like the game and preffer it over DMC4, which I played afterwards.

About MGS, I don't think it would be better without Kojima but I really hope the series to finally end (at least the Kojima chapter) and to be rebooted for newcomers. After MGS4 I just feel thebseries is trying to close holes and not progresing narrativelly.

I prefer the methods of DMC4 in the sense that I prefer the design. DmC just has a flow to it where you can grab enemies left and right. You weren't always given that. DMC3 was where you had to be really good to keep a combo going and going. In DmC you can keep hitting the button over and over. I think it's what you want out of it is what matters. There's bosses and setups on the older games that are 10x better than DmC, but again DmC has a flow to it.

I still think DmC is a bit behind the humor and the overall appeal of the older games.

Castlevania MoF on 3DS was very forgettable. It did the same thing over and over again. They should of had a layout with multiple openings except having each level as a 3 layer level.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Which is awesome. I'm still curious about what direction a Metal Gear will go without him at all.

Comments like these remind me why I want to stay independent as a game dev. People are basically ok with an ip being milked purely for money with no regard for the original creator. This is why publishers treat devs like shit to begin with and it's why we don't get that many original ideas in gaming anymore.

Like why would you be curious? To see how well some professional fanfiction using someone else's character will turn out?

 

[Kindekuma]

A new Metal Gear without Kojima is like publishing a new Harry Potter story that will try to fit in the timeline that isn't written by JK Rowling. It would be a sin.

Also are we on the same page here, OP?

Fans hated the new DmC, and I'm pretty sure they feel the same way about the newer Castlevania games too.

 

[Dahbomb]

That's all good but why the hell would you expect the lead of a DevilMayCry game to mesh aesthetically with the two lead characters from Brokeback Mountain of all things? That's bizarre.

Their point was that DMC4 Dante doesn't mesh with Western male leads and that was the reason for their redesign.

Thing is that neither does DmC Dante which is why all their comments about OG DMC series and Dante look pretty silly now.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Also are we on the same page here, OP?

Fans hated the new DmC, and I'm pretty sure they feel the same way about the newer Castlevania games too.

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

¯\(&#12484/¯

 

[Kindekuma]

¯\(&#12484/¯

So I'm guessing Other M is a good game now because it "experimented" with the franchise.

No. It doesn't work like that. You can't dramatically change the formula of a series and expect long term fans to enjoy what they got.

 

[Comfort Jones]

So I'm guessing Other M is a good game now because it "experimented" with the franchise.

No. It doesn't work like that. You can't dramatically change the formula of a series and expect long term fans to enjoy what they got.

To play devil's advocate lots of people liked Metroid Prime which was a big change in some ways as well.

Of course tbh I really don't care for those games either and I have been without a new Metroid game that actually has the gameplay I enjoyed from older entries for a loooooooong time now. Yaaaay.

 

[IvorB]

Hmm, it has him as the Supervising Director. I thought he wasnt even that on it.



Which is awesome. I'm still curious about what direction a Metal Gear will go without him at all.

It was being made by his studio but apparently when he saw what they were doing he sent them to the bench in favour of platinum. It's kind of harsh but there it is.

 

[Branson]

Comments like these remind me why I want to stay independent as a game dev. People are basically ok with an ip being milked purely for money with no regard for the original creator. This is why publishers treat devs like shit to begin with and it's why we don't get that many original ideas in gaming anymore.

Like why would you be curious? To see how well some professional fanfiction using someone else's character will turn out?

Yeah. Do you think whoever takes over the franchise, if thats what happens, won't try to appeal to the fans out there who will very much make his development a living hell? You thought the death threats for Kojima were bad. Talk about motivation to make a great game. Theoretical, of course.

Also, I'm curious, it doesnt have Kojima as the writer for Rising, did he have any involvement in that story? I enjoyed it and it was very much crazy in the Metal Gear style.

 

[Dahbomb]

Experimentation is fine as long as the experimentation is done with quality.

DMC3 experimented with a TON of new mechanics, ideas and technologies for the DMC series. They experimented with proper motion capture for cutscenes and focused more on action during cutscenes. They experimented with a ton of new mechanics in the game play. They experimented giving the series its first semi controllable camera. They experimented with having a target reticule and health bars for enemies be displayed. I can go on and on with the stuff they changed from DMC1 or added in to DMC3.


DMC3 changed up a lot of things but a lot of them were well received because they were done well. You can't just experiment just for the sake of experimentation and expect people to like it.

DmC changed a lot... some stuff worked but a lot of it didn't. I will be the first one to admit that the writing quality of DMC needed to be upgraded a ton but DmC failed to do this and delivered a story with abysmal writing and characters. It was a different flavor to the story and characters but it wasn't done near as well as NT said it would be. Because they boasted hard, crapped on the original series and went in a different direction with the tone/aesthetics yet still produced mediocre writing... they were rightfully blasted for it.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Their point was that DMC4 Dante doesn't mesh with Western male leads and that was the reason for their redesign.

Thing is that neither does DmC Dante which is why all their comments about OG DMC series and Dante look pretty silly now.

I don't think that's what we need. We need more emphasis on turning fantasy into fantasy. I don't think we ever thought of Dante outside of his "-"demon hunter"-" look (sure he was rude). I think the industry takes those things way too seriously when they want it to relate with an "audience". It just means you have more new people into the scene of gaming and they may not all want what a lot of us grew to love. That was a selling point for Ninja Theory IMO. They knew they could do it to the DMC series. They could do it and they'd blame every complaint on the "dated" technology of the original series. Which its hilarious because God of War would probably be put in the same place hadn't the industry hadn't looked at God of War 3. Now they're making a Definitive Version of that. It was a PR move IMO. Their new Dante is much more gothic than the original.

 

[Astral Dog]

So I'm guessing Other M is a good game now because it "experimented" with the franchise.

No. It doesn't work like that. You can't dramatically change the formula of a series and expect long term fans to enjoy what they got.

ironically the game that experimented more was Metroid Prime, Other M was a shot by the original creator based more on the classic gameplay, with Metroid Prime, a japanese game given to a western studio, OP could had a way better example and argument instead of this mess, but it was not meant to be.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Yeah. Do you think whoever takes over the franchise, if thats what happens, won't try to appeal to the fans out there who will very much make his development a living hell? You thought the death threats for Kojima were bad. Talk about motivation to make a great game. Theoretical, of course.

You know what series also has a really vocal and passionate fanbase? Silent Hill. Talk about motivation to make a great game looooool. You know what series got completely dragged down into shit by other developers? Silent Hill.

Also, I'm curious, it doesnt have Kojima as the writer for Rising, did he have any involvement in that story? I enjoyed it and it was very much crazy in the Metal Gear style.

Rising was still very much his baby as said earlier and honestly I seriously doubt people really enjoyed it as a mainline MGS game. It's very much a spin off that could just as easily have been a new ip if they renamed some stuff. Make Ray look different, Raiden is some other dude (BECAUSE THAT'S NOT EVEN THE RAIDEN I REMEMBER TO BEGIN WITH), etc., new IP!

Konami is not going to be going down that road. A reboot would be horrific. An attempt to do anything with Snake and friends would be horrific. Anything beyond that is grasping as straws just to keep the Metal Gear name on it.

 

[Branson]

You know what series also has a really vocal and passionate fanbase? Silent Hill. Talk about motivation to make a great game looooool. You know what series got completely dragged down into shit by other developers? Silent Hill.



Rising was still very much his baby as said earlier and honestly I seriously doubt people really enjoyed it as a mainline MGS game. It's very much a spin off that could just as easily have been a new ip if they renamed some stuff. Make Ray look different, Raiden is some other dude (BECAUSE THAT'S NOT EVEN THE RAIDEN I REMEMBER TO BEGIN WITH), etc., new IP!

Konami is not going to be going down that road. A reboot would be horrific. An attempt to do anything with Snake and friends would be horrific. Anything beyond that is grasping as straws just to keep the Metal Gear name on it.

Well shit. That SH comparison just made me sad.

 

[Kindekuma]

To play devil's advocate lots of people liked Metroid Prime which was a big change in some ways as well.

Of course tbh I really don't care for those games either and I have been without a new Metroid game that actually has the gameplay I enjoyed from older entries for a loooooooong time now. Yaaaay.

Well what made Prime so good is that it stuck so close to the style/gameplay of the original games but just transitioned in 3D. Discovering new areas, finding power ups and weapon expansions, bosses that can take up a large part of the map, etc. Other M totally changed that formula with disabling weapons until Adam told you it was OK, exploration and gameplay extremely limited (Shooting missiles only in a locked 1st person mode, pixel hunting sequences, forced walking/investigation scenes, etc). And a story that didn't work well in the series.

ironically the game that experimented more was Metroid Prime, Other M was a shot by the original creator based more on the classic gameplay, with Metroid Prime, a japanese game given to a western studio, OP could had a way better example and argument instead of this mess, but it was not meant to be.

Ironic is right. While Sakamoto implemented the old 3rd person style gameplay it felt like an older title, but the changes that were made in the game just felt so jarring rather than a natural progression of the series.

When a player goes from the classic formula such as something from Super Metroid to a game like Other M and is expected to embrace the newer "formula", it clashes with fans.
There's a fine line with games and variations on their formulas. Crash Bandicoot getting Crash Team Racing or Crash Bash is a good example. The formula was changed but hovered over the original material very closely but with a fun spin that didn't try to overtake the series.

But after all this rambling, what I'm really trying to say is that a new Metal Gear game without any type of supervision or input from Kojima himself just isn't a Metal Gear. And this is coming from a huge MGS fan who's love for the series could rival Patriot Infinity.

Spoiler

Please excuse my little rant there, I'm still kind of pissed over the treatment of KojiPro/Kojima over the past few days.

 

[Kazuhira]

I think the problem is that with Castlevania,Devil May Cry,Silent Hill etc is that they are unfinished stories and you´re stuck in a "what if" situation,wondering what could´ve happened if the original team was still working in those franchises.
But with Metal Gear i know everything will be finished by kojima´s hand,there´s nothing else to say after V..no more story and that makes me feel a lot better.
I know Konami will release more games in the future which i suppose is with a new hero and a completely new story,maybe 50 years after 4 or something like that but it won´t matter because MGSV will be my last metal gear game

 

[Northeastmonk]

I think the problem is that with Castlevania,Devil May Cry,Silent Hill etc is that they are unfinished stories and you´re stuck in a "what if" situation,wondering what could´ve happened if the original team was still working in those franchises.
But with Metal Gear i know everything will be finished by kojima´s hand,there´s nothing else to say after V..no more story and that makes me feel a lot better.
I know Konami will release more games in the future which i suppose is with a new hero and a completely new story,maybe 50 years after 4 or something like that but it won´t matter because MGSV will be my last metal gear game

It's also a matter of what the original creator had set in store for the project. Look back at how DMC1 was originally RE4 is one thing. It took a whole other approach with each entry. I think the game would play much more differently with Hideki Kamiya lined up for the next entry. It might play like a better version of Bayonetta for all we know. God of War has had many changes. I even think David Jaffe said his ideas were completely different compared to how Kratos turned out.

God of War III game director Stig Asmussen has revealed that former directors David Jaffe and Cory Barlog had different ideas about how to end the series.

"What David Jaffe talked about doing was - and I'm not sure how it would happen - basically, you destroy Greek mythology and then Norse mythology is right around the corner," Asmussen told GamePro.

"That's the next thing that Kratos would go after. It becomes clear at the end that he's going to become this harbinger of death across different mythologies in the world and maybe carry the series on from there."

Apparently Barlog's idea was "about Kratos becoming Death".

David Jaffe subsequently popped up on Twitter to clarify, as spotted by Kotaku. "I assure you my story was not as simple as Kratos going after the Norse gods. There is an element of truth but it goes far beyond," he tweeted.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/directors-differed-on-god-of-war-iii-ending

It would be nice to see the "what if" scenario had the original minds finished everything. I think it could be a big "mental note" knowing this is Kojima's final MGS. Meaning you don't have to pay attention after MGSV releases if you don't want to. I think Konami should consider how well they did when they did have an original creator behind their series. I think Silent Hill, Castlevania, and now possibly MGS are prime examples of the strong impact a series can have. I felt like God of War did it well because they kept gaining strong team leaders and SSM is a strong team. They've worked hard putting together GoW for many years (outside of Ascension being what it was, a step in the wrong direction IMO).

 

[Shadoken]

DMC 3-4 did change quite a bit from DMC1 and id say it did pretty well with a different team. LOS1 although not universally accepted by everyone was a pretty interesting approach to Castlevania , a shame the sequels to it did not live up to it.
Am not sure the approach they did for DmC would work well , as far as DmC was concerned Capcom wanted a huge change for Dante. I remember reading articles where Capcom execs wanted NT to present them with extreme changes.

But apart from those games there are plenty of examples of completely new teams working on games and them being just as good as the predecessors. Street Fighter is another example , every mainline entry since 2 has been

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

And yet you have time to make a thread about this "overrated franchise" on a forum , must be sad if that's your idea of "life outside of video games".

 

[MindGamingMantis]

I was thinking about the whole Kojima/Konami situation this morning and granted I've never been a huge fan of MGS it does seem like a bad move for Konami to lose the father of Metal Gear but the more I think about it.... I think I may be warming up to the idea.

As the thread title suggests, there are instances where a change of hands could be for the better. After 4 mainline devil may cry games the formula became pretty stale imo so when DmC came it was a breath of fresh air. Same went for Castlevania, as much as I love metroidvania style games I was starting to get bored of the Iga games and so Lords of the Shadow came at just the right time.

I get that it bums the diehard fans out that have grown accustomed to a certain style of play or a certain style of writing from Kojima and his crew but sometimes a passing of the torch is necessary for fan favorite franchises to evolve. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while the circumstances sound pretty bad, it may end up being for the best.

That's exactly why you don't get it. And for the record, Castlevania, DmC and Silent Hill are a joke now.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Well, with OP's taste I think he will be realy happy with MG's new direction. That's the most positive thing I can say.

 

[grandwizard]

I swear to God I'm gonna have an aneurysm when someone tries passing this off as a homophobic joke again. This was a completely harmless joke during a GDC 2013 panel about westernization of the style and outfit, which was followed up with other images from other films (Fight Club, Dexter, Perfume)

I think it's pretty disgusting that you guys are trying to pass it off as one so can add more hate to developers. It's fucking shameful.

I think it's shameful how you continue to defend the slide when it is plainly obvious what they were going for. So they just happened to choose an image from one of the most famous movies of all time based on a gay relationship to shove old Dante in right? Pure coincidence? Couldn't find any other movies with cowboys? What a joke. You know exactly what they were doing, it was just one step in their very long campaign of throwing old DMC under the bus and patting themselves on the back about how they've come to save the day and update the old, lame, boring Japanese designs with new hip and edgy Western magic.

And the reason you didn't see Polygon and Kotaku articles about it is because Ninja Theory have been industry darlings since Enslaved came out, which is also why they got away with so much bullshit doing the DmC PR buildup.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

OP should feel bad.

 

[Maintenance]

Current DMC and Castlevanias are a joke, Silent Hill too.

Plus there's this:

and granted I've never been a huge fan of MGS

 

[Sadist]

Yeah, it didn't work at all for Castlevania. Like everything Konami did for the past eight years. Well except for Metal Gear.

The 2D games might have been "similar" to each other, but they are good fun and ther was nothing wrong with them. Getting Mirror of Fate instead was a letdown. In every aspect it's just mediocre compared to Iga's GBA and DS titles. Lords of Shadows 2... oof.

 

[Screaming Meat]

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

smh at this thread so hard.

I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

Show some dignity, man.

 

[Meccanical]

I don't know what reality you exist in,but I want no part of it.

 

[Gambit 1138]

By worked you mean failed right?

 

[Randam]

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

smh at this thread so hard.

I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

Wow..

The good old you guys don't have a real life argument..

 

[AgentLampshade]

Of course Dante looked stupid next to a bunch of Hollywood actors, fucking ANY video game character would.

 

[Saintguine]

"It worked for DMC."

Lol.

It didn't sales-wise and gameplay-wise. Also feel free to respond to this post with "muh white hair".

 

[Saintguine]

Wow..

The good old you guys don't have a real life argument..

Bruh, bruh, BRUH, BRUUUUUUH! I bet you can't bench press 200kg for 10 reps like he can whilst he gets his banging 11/10 GF to grind his leg.

NOT TOLD [ ]
TOLD[X]

 

[Kyou]

Boy I can't wait for a c string western studio to make metal gear more generic and boring

 

[sjack]

And not so up it's ass on scifi tech and anime tropes.

I would love a more gritty and realistic Metal Gear more akin the first MGS1.

MGS1 had plenty of scifi tech and anime tropes. If you take all those things away it just turns into a generic stealth action game, which is the last thing I want MGS to turn into.

So thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I would love a more gritty and realistic Metal Gear more akin the first MGS1.

MGS1 isn't anywhere near being gritty or realistic.

 

[eddievanclaylen]

A 2d metroidvania metal gear game might be awesome ...

 

[Szadek]

It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania

Sure...why not throw in Silent Hill, too, as another terrible example?

 

[Steroyd]

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

smh at this thread so hard.

I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

Don't know about LoS thoroughly but DmC was not an interesting change at all, infact so much was wrong with it, that the Definitive edition released recently speaks for itself.

Even other examples are hit and miss, Resident Evil 4 changed the formula for the better and the series evolved... Aaaaand then RE5 and 6 happened, Metroid Prime is another example taking Metroid into the 3D realm successfully... Aaaaand Metroid Other M happened, there's also a similar pattern forming between fans and the Halo franchise since 343i took over the Halo franchise.

So forgive people for being pessimistic especially when the whole team behind it is being gutted out and replaced entirely, so there's not even a passing of the baton which is an even stronger case of a new MGS after 5 being a far cry from what is expected of the series.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Yeah, it sure worked for these two.. :|

Yeah. I like Lord of Shadows (I have not played 2 and I may never), but it isn't "real" Castlevania.

 

[Soodanim]

As someone who's trying to push himself through God of War: Castlevania Edition, I can't say that I agree with the OP. However, I will buy DmC when it comes to PC.

 

[NotLiquid]

I feel like the subtext everyone's missing here is that NT Dante seemed like he fit in even less in his game.

To me, at least. Kamiya Dante was Kamiya weird, this half-tone of seriousness with no desire to actually be taken seriously. Itsuno Dante (DMC2 excepting) was absurd in a world of absurdity, both in terms of design and personality. Ninja Theory Dante was one of, like, seven people you see. And he was just a dude in a coat compared to the strangeness of everyone else.

I've always felt like it made more sense to be surrounded by jesters and rocket-riding schoolgirls and fit in than to be surrounded by monsters and look like a chav.

On the topic of this I always liked that one subtle but integral detail about choosing to make Dante half human in the original games. Not half demon/angel like in the reboot, but half demon/human.

It meant that on some level it was still possible to relate to him and his goals. It gave a lot of context for his over the top nature. Many of the demons in the games were usually relentless/serious bullish brutes for the most of the part while Dante is larger than life, which is understandable as someone who has that much power thanks to his heritage but is by all means also a guy who's reveling in how outlandish and cool he can be, while simultaneously fighting for a cause that we can understand. As a part human it makes sense for him to kill demons as business, he's in and of itself fighting for his fellow man.

In contrast I just kinda feel like NT Dante just lacked a proper frame of reference to find him able to sympathize with, which is funny since it tries to do more in terms of characterization. It never really made much sense on a character level to have him be half angel other than having a good excuse to shove in a dual stance gimmick.

 

[Gbraga]

If only the thread was about DMC3, I'd be inclined to agree, but your examples didn't help, OP.

 

[Meia]

To play devil's advocate lots of people liked Metroid Prime which was a big change in some ways as well.

Of course tbh I really don't care for those games either and I have been without a new Metroid game that actually has the gameplay I enjoyed from older entries for a loooooooong time now. Yaaaay.

To be fair, you can only change a series so much before it doesn't resemble the series anymore, and people wonder why you didn't just make a new IP to begin with. Then again, "brand recognition."


I do believe something like DmC would have done better if it didn't try to usurp something that had a lot of fans(which, let's face it, is exactly what it tried to do). Metroid Prime changed radically, but kept the core of what Metroid was when it shifted to that. Castlevania radically changed, but kept a lot of the core aesthetics when it became a metroidvania-like game(gameplay was also similar enough and tone was preserved so it was fine). Then again, when they went Lords of Shadow, it didn't exactly feel like it belonged to that series anymore, did it?


I think that's the crux of why people are worried when they say "We're making Metal Gear without Kojima!" How about you give the series a rest and come up with a new IP with similar gameplay in a different setting or something? Ah right, "brand recognition"...

 

[-Amon-]

Metal Gear IS Kojima, there is no solution to this.

With Kojima out, the franchise is dead.

I'm going to enjoy the last one, and then see what Kojima will be working on.