He's saying that NT's version was better than Itsuno's.
It worked for Devil May Cry and Castlevania... why couldn't it work for Metal Gear?
- Thread starter FloatOn
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He's saying that NT's version was better than Itsuno's.
Ghost Slayer
Member
Most defenders of dmc cant handle that fact.
DmC sold worse than DMC 4. The market has spoken.
I know that people had issues with the gameplay. I personally didnt and had a good time with it. I think its blown way out of proportion though.
I could not disagree any less that it fucking "worked".
Especially for DmC. FFS man.
Yeah thanks for that one Capcom. I'm sure your fans and people working under you feel like they're being treated with respect.
Wow. That's pretty offensive.
I loved DMC1 and 3. I never played 4 though. DmC was just similar but different enough for me to enjoy it too. Jeez guys lol. I'm Not saying its any better or worse I just think calling it terrible is way over doing it.
Edit: Where the hell is that picture from?
BeautifulMemory
Member
Just wait one day when your favorite franchise and main character gets bastardized like What happened with DmC.
I could not disagree any less that it fucking "worked".
Especially for DmC. FFS man.
Yeah thanks for that one Capcom. I'm sure your fans and people working under you feel like they're being treated with respect.
I swear to God I'm gonna have an aneurysm when someone tries passing this off as a homophobic joke again. This was a completely harmless joke during a GDC 2013 panel about westernization of the style and outfit, which was followed up with other images from other films (Fight Club, Dexter, Perfume)
I think it's pretty disgusting that you guys are trying to pass it off as one so can add more hate to developers. It's fucking shameful.
the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.
smh at this thread so hard.
I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.
clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.
Lol. At this point I'd welcome a shakeup. I never hated Raiden in MGS2 either. Make it fucking weird. That's what makes games fun.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Ok, I don't know wich version is true, but I guess that explains why I haven't heard about that before. If, by the context, that wasn't meant to be homophobic, then it is a shame for those who are trying to distort it.
Astral Dog
Member
Stop, some people are just questioning your examples because they dont feel they are appropiate, these games recieved mixed reception for a reason, qualities and all. it doesnt have anything to do with "having a life outside videogames" or play every entry in an "overrated" franchise.
Of course when outside companies mess up with established characters and gameplay formulas there is going to be some doubt, sometimes this can turn out fine, but also not very good.
Edit: for example, these franchises had already changed hands, with SoTN and DMC 3, and were overall well recieved.
Crash Station
Member
Change is great. Regression is not. That is what DmC and LOS represent.
Not to say MGS under different leadership would be bad, but those examples are not good.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
It wasn't and DmC: Definitive Edition is a better than the vanilla game because of those complaints.
Storm Raider
Banned
SOCOM switched developers for a game, that worked out well too.
Even without nostalgia goggles, DmC takes many steps back from the mainline series. It's a solid game sure, & the Definitive Edition fixed many of the original's mistakes, but still.
I should also mention that I was actually in attendance for this panel as well, and I saw the actual context of the panels. Everyone there enjoyed the panel, and they liked what he had to say and were cordial throughout the whole thing. If this panel was as offensive as people claimed, then you can bet your bottom dollar we would've seen a Kotaku or Polygon opinion article about it. I should also stress that this particular discussion about this image, in the two years since this panel, has ONLY happened on NeoGAF.
But really, It's easy for someone who has an axe to grind with this game to plaster the image of a panel slide and say it's homophobic, which of course will get others who are like-minded to agree as well.
I don't want to make a huge deal of this, because the people of the thread have already hammered this home...but;
- Castlevania has died a slow death. The games are thumbing their nose at what actually made the series lovable and fun. The initial games were difficult, then got a huge upgrade when the Metroid elements came along. The new games could have had similar elements, but in 3D...however, that has happened with games like Darksiders I/II. There's something just plain wrong about the series now, it's an abomination on the level of Dracula his self.
- Devil May Cry...dear god, that series has derailed. That's enough.
- Castlevania has died a slow death. The games are thumbing their nose at what actually made the series lovable and fun. The initial games were difficult, then got a huge upgrade when the Metroid elements came along. The new games could have had similar elements, but in 3D...however, that has happened with games like Darksiders I/II. There's something just plain wrong about the series now, it's an abomination on the level of Dracula his self.
- Devil May Cry...dear god, that series has derailed. That's enough.
HappehLemons
Member
I could not disagree any less that it fucking "worked".
Especially for DmC. FFS man.
Yeah thanks for that one Capcom. I'm sure your fans and people working under you feel like they're being treated with respect.
Way to post this without any context, it's like you're trying to make trouble. This image was about costume design. It is harmless, and correct.
Astral Dog
Member
only similarities are the boots, and even then, but i guess thats the appropiate context,
, could you explain this a bit more?
what about the other images, these "Dante is not this",? they are so strange,
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't know if Definitive Edition fixed my problems with the bosses, story, or level design.
If it did, then great!
If not, then I still don't think it's a good game.
If it did, then great!
If not, then I still don't think it's a good game.
Well I was addressing the OP actually.
Every single DMC topic in existence:
"I liked the reboot. Why are people so down on it? It's because they're stupid fanboys who can't accept a different hair colour."
"Actually here's a long list of completely gameplay oriented complaints that detail why the reboot, although worthwhile on its own merits, failed to capture the majesty of the original games. Also the writing is subpar and juvenile and I disapprove of Ninja Theory's antagonistic response towards the fanbase."
"LOL ITS BECAUSE OF THE HAAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRRR."
"I liked the reboot. Why are people so down on it? It's because they're stupid fanboys who can't accept a different hair colour."
"Actually here's a long list of completely gameplay oriented complaints that detail why the reboot, although worthwhile on its own merits, failed to capture the majesty of the original games. Also the writing is subpar and juvenile and I disapprove of Ninja Theory's antagonistic response towards the fanbase."
"LOL ITS BECAUSE OF THE HAAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRRR."
Kssio_Aug
Member
Thank god Ninja Theory wasnt being that closed-minded. Thanks to clarify it!
Monocle
Member
OP has a flawed premise. Neither of those reboots were the right direction for their series.
To say DMC's formula was stale is... uninformed. DMC3 is widely considered the peak of the series for its mechanical excellence. DMC4 has a flawed campaign but it blew the lid off the combat system with style switching. Nothing else touches what's possible in that game, apart from DMC3 with mods. And here's a key point: DMC4 was the best selling game in the series. That's right, the DMC franchise was actually gaining popularity before Capcom's DmC cash grab. It's not unlikely that a straight sequel, DMC5, would have surpassed DMC3. Capcom certainly knew what fans wanted, and they had the talent to give it to them. Too bad they decided to chase that God of War money and ended up alienating fans and failing to capture a mainstream audience.
To say DMC's formula was stale is... uninformed. DMC3 is widely considered the peak of the series for its mechanical excellence. DMC4 has a flawed campaign but it blew the lid off the combat system with style switching. Nothing else touches what's possible in that game, apart from DMC3 with mods. And here's a key point: DMC4 was the best selling game in the series. That's right, the DMC franchise was actually gaining popularity before Capcom's DmC cash grab. It's not unlikely that a straight sequel, DMC5, would have surpassed DMC3. Capcom certainly knew what fans wanted, and they had the talent to give it to them. Too bad they decided to chase that God of War money and ended up alienating fans and failing to capture a mainstream audience.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
They could have chose Wyatt Earp in Tombstone.
Or any classic western.
Hell they could have gone with Blazing Saddles.
They went with the two gay cowboys for their slide showing that they didn't like Dante's outfit.
Story and level design are the same. Bosses are generally more aggressive although mechanically the same except for the Vergil boss fights. They are amped up dramatically and actually worthy of being in "final boss" tier.
Of course the game made a lot of game play changes which was the main focus of DmC DE.
If you don't mind, can you elaborate? It's easy to jump to the conclusion that Ninja Theory is making a cheap jab at Dante's sexuality (as I previously assumed before you stated otherwise) and I'd like to hear more.
Yeah but Kojima is Metal Gear. Your obvious disdain for the series doesn't really stand you in good stead to make these assertions. And I speak as one who doesn't care one way or the other about MGS.
Sanctuary
Member
Lol, no they weren't. Unless by "critical" you mean the outspoken "purist" users on Metacritic that acted like the games always played like a copy of Metroid. Lords of Shadow was actually a really good action game overall. Might not have been one of the best Castlevania games, but it was a good action game. The second was okay too, but suffered horribly from pacing and level designs.
It did, but they were also horribly overblown as though two or three segments that took a whole five minutes were the entirety of the game.
Not mine, but I greatly enjoyed it nonetheless and wish less people would judge it based off of the title instead of the actual game. Despite claims to the contrary, that's what too many people are doing. Some people even pretend the series didn't exist before SotN as well.
Comfort Jones
Banned
The image is basically about saying he looks dumb. It does not help that he's next to some gay cowboys. Why? Because he fits in or doesn't fit in, because either way it's a stupid image.
Even with more "context" DMC fans still found it really stupid. I never said anything about it being homophobic. In context all I see is NT being so far up their own ass that they don't even understand the damage they were doing to themselves with this ridiculous to redo the series.
That picture of Dante with the two Brokeback Mountain cowbows is not a joke on sexuality.
There's another picture of Dante alongside Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt is a symbol of "cool, bad ass manly" character in Fight Club. He is not homosexual. Dante is being placed next to Brad Pitt to show how out of place he looks next to him. Same with Dante in the Brokeback Mountain image.
People thinking NT was being homophobic with that picture are missing the point and context of the images. They are meant to show how Dante does not belong in those pictures next to those characters... not that he's a homosexual cowboy.
Of course one can take it that NT is being homophobic if you are ONLY looking at that picture but once you look at it with the Brad Pitt picture you will realize that they are not implying that Dante is homosexual (or that he's lame/uncool for being a homosexual cowboy).
For the record... the creative director of NT actually WANTED Dante to be gay in DmC.
There's another picture of Dante alongside Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt is a symbol of "cool, bad ass manly" character in Fight Club. He is not homosexual. Dante is being placed next to Brad Pitt to show how out of place he looks next to him. Same with Dante in the Brokeback Mountain image.
People thinking NT was being homophobic with that picture are missing the point and context of the images. They are meant to show how Dante does not belong in those pictures next to those characters... not that he's a homosexual cowboy.
Of course one can take it that NT is being homophobic if you are ONLY looking at that picture but once you look at it with the Brad Pitt picture you will realize that they are not implying that Dante is homosexual (or that he's lame/uncool for being a homosexual cowboy).
For the record... the creative director of NT actually WANTED Dante to be gay in DmC.
You're getting defensive because you transparently have no basis for your assertions in the OP, and you're coming from a perspective that is both flawed and incomplete. But yeah, it's everyone else's ignorance that's the problem.
Because they viewed homosexuality as rebellious.
Well thats good. I guess I just never got deep enough with the combat systems to really see the huge difference.
My bad. lol.
Comfort Jones
Banned
I'm looking for the post where someone was implying all that image is is a homophobic joke. Because I didn't say that and I'm not seeing anyone else say that but I see a bunch of posts now jumping on this wagon to make sure we all know the context.
And in context is fucking silly. Also someone already beat you to the punch. I'm not sure how that image is any better off with these additional images.
And in context is fucking silly. Also someone already beat you to the punch. I'm not sure how that image is any better off with these additional images.
The weird thing is that they were comparing DMC Dante to the images at the side/backdrop so DmC should be like that movie.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I feel like the subtext everyone's missing here is that NT Dante seemed like he fit in even less in his game.
To me, at least. Kamiya Dante was Kamiya weird, this half-tone of seriousness with no desire to actually be taken seriously. Itsuno Dante (DMC2 excepting) was absurd in a world of absurdity, both in terms of design and personality. Ninja Theory Dante was one of, like, seven people you see. And he was just a dude in a coat compared to the strangeness of everyone else.
I've always felt like it made more sense to be surrounded by jesters and rocket-riding schoolgirls and fit in than to be surrounded by monsters and look like a chav.
To me, at least. Kamiya Dante was Kamiya weird, this half-tone of seriousness with no desire to actually be taken seriously. Itsuno Dante (DMC2 excepting) was absurd in a world of absurdity, both in terms of design and personality. Ninja Theory Dante was one of, like, seven people you see. And he was just a dude in a coat compared to the strangeness of everyone else.
I've always felt like it made more sense to be surrounded by jesters and rocket-riding schoolgirls and fit in than to be surrounded by monsters and look like a chav.
plasmawave
Banned
I wouldn't use the new Castlevania franchise as something positive.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Time and technology changed DMC. I am going back to DMC1 and after playing through DmC
E and DmC a couple times I realize some changes were actually good. In DMC you had less weapon placement. The game is very good, but you weren't given the plethora of switching weapons on the fly or grabbing enemies until later on. It has aged in the way where they have more ways to make Dante more versatile. Not saying he isn't, but anymore no one stands up for dated controls or a setup in the scope of design. If you ignore all that you go through the many different stages DMC had. The sequel felt like it was designed on a sim city map, so we skip to 3,4, and DmC. I think it is based on how much life the design team puts into something. You could totally mess up a franchise (aka Silent Hill) if you don't have that team leader there to innovate and construct. I don't like the way the new Dante or Vergil look. I think they could of gone with an original skin and had been better off. The original model is so much better looking. I think they just need to learn how to incorporate Capcom of the 90s and 00's into today's market. Nothing is wrong with that art style. I had DMC1 the day it launched, so what I remember versus what is there is about spot on.
With Metal Gear you have had one man who has crafted a well thought of universe. It's his vision in what happens next. I think half of what has happened with character designs and game play mechanics has been because of Kojima. I don't personally understand why this is even coming up now because MGSV hasn't even released yet. Lords of Shadows was good because of Kojima standing by. The sequel IMO had a lot of missed opportunities. I hated some parts of LoS2. I remember much much more of LoS1. I really don't think the scope of all this will come out into the open until later. They've said nothing about Silent Hills except the exert they played at TGS last year. Kojima has been behind MGSV and it should be treated as such. There's no real reason to see beyond the scope of MGSV when Ground Zeroes was probably not the final version of the Fox Engine.
E and DmC a couple times I realize some changes were actually good. In DMC you had less weapon placement. The game is very good, but you weren't given the plethora of switching weapons on the fly or grabbing enemies until later on. It has aged in the way where they have more ways to make Dante more versatile. Not saying he isn't, but anymore no one stands up for dated controls or a setup in the scope of design. If you ignore all that you go through the many different stages DMC had. The sequel felt like it was designed on a sim city map, so we skip to 3,4, and DmC. I think it is based on how much life the design team puts into something. You could totally mess up a franchise (aka Silent Hill) if you don't have that team leader there to innovate and construct. I don't like the way the new Dante or Vergil look. I think they could of gone with an original skin and had been better off. The original model is so much better looking. I think they just need to learn how to incorporate Capcom of the 90s and 00's into today's market. Nothing is wrong with that art style. I had DMC1 the day it launched, so what I remember versus what is there is about spot on.With Metal Gear you have had one man who has crafted a well thought of universe. It's his vision in what happens next. I think half of what has happened with character designs and game play mechanics has been because of Kojima. I don't personally understand why this is even coming up now because MGSV hasn't even released yet. Lords of Shadows was good because of Kojima standing by. The sequel IMO had a lot of missed opportunities. I hated some parts of LoS2. I remember much much more of LoS1. I really don't think the scope of all this will come out into the open until later. They've said nothing about Silent Hills except the exert they played at TGS last year. Kojima has been behind MGSV and it should be treated as such. There's no real reason to see beyond the scope of MGSV when Ground Zeroes was probably not the final version of the Fox Engine.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Symphony of the Night came along, really shaking up the Castlevania formula from it's predecessors, and nobody rejected it.
Seems more like a shot at overly designed Japanese characters. Saying they are going with a more grounded cool western style.
No more a mainline title than Metal Gear Ac!d though.
Crash Station
Member
You can get your point across without attacking others over their's.
If MGS means little to you, can you at least see why people would find it odd you'd take the time to make a thread about it, hoping for it to be something it's not?
Astral Dog
Member
yeah, but it was an spin off action game, ask some of the MG fans on the "original Rising" thread. people complained about the story too.
Sanctuary
Member
Does that even count though? It was a spin-off, not an actual stealth game with ten hour cutscenes.
That picture of Dante with the two Brokeback Mountain cowbows is not a joke on sexuality.
There's another picture of Dante alongside Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt is a symbol of "cool, bad ass manly" character in Fight Club. He is not homosexual. Dante is being placed next to Brad Pitt to show how out of place he looks next to him. Same with Dante in the Brokeback Mountain image.
People thinking NT was being homophobic with that picture are missing the point and context of the images. They are meant to show how Dante does not belong in those pictures next to those characters... not that he's a homosexual cowboy.
Of course one can take it that NT is being homophobic if you are ONLY looking at that picture but once you look at it with the Brad Pitt picture you will realize that they are not implying that Dante is homosexual (or that he's lame/uncool for being a homosexual cowboy).
For the record... the creative director of NT actually WANTED Dante to be gay in DmC.
That's all good but why the hell would you expect the lead of a DevilMayCry game to mesh aesthetically with the two lead characters from Brokeback Mountain of all things? That's bizarre.
No worries.
You're such a badass. Making threads on a message board and then insulting people that respond on the message board.