Lessons to 'git gud' from the guy that breaks controllers.
Bloodborne |OT+++| ...and so the Nightly Hunt continues
- Thread starter Robot Pants
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Lessons to 'git gud' from the guy that breaks controllers.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
It wasn't so bad in Dark Souls 2 since it was gradually depleting instead of instantly having half health.
I rock the bone ash gloves and pants and then rotate through the tomb, knight, executioner chest pieces depending on mood, and sometimes I swap out the whole thing if I need specific resistances to get an edge. 90% of the time I wear the Brotherhood of the Wolf hat. I really don't like most of the headgear, sadly.
Should there be no consequences to dying in an encounter? If the consequence isn't "I've lost a ton of vials, now I've got to get more", what should it be?
I think the farming sucks, but the threat of having to do it should I lose makes the boss victories way more rewarding. I can see that being lost if you can just go from the lamp and spam boss attempts.
I think the farming sucks, but the threat of having to do it should I lose makes the boss victories way more rewarding. I can see that being lost if you can just go from the lamp and spam boss attempts.
lol Spare me. Trying to strawman my argument with other ridiculous "examples" isn't doing you any favors, but yeah not trying to draw out an internet argument. I'm trying to discuss Bloodborne. We're done here.
Losing blood echoes and progress?
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Bloodborne shouldn't have any checkpoints. The game would be so much more intense and rewarding if you had to start from Central Yarnham every time you died.
The point is, you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to punishing the player for failing. Specifically regarding healing systems the line was set at a certain spot with Dark Souls I and II that felt right to many players (myself included). I think that's a big part of what makes the changes to the system in Bloodborne feel odd and needlessly grindy.
The point is, you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to punishing the player for failing. Specifically regarding healing systems the line was set at a certain spot with Dark Souls I and II that felt right to many players (myself included). I think that's a big part of what makes the changes to the system in Bloodborne feel odd and needlessly grindy.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Fuck that noise. I actually went through the frenzy, killed the rock throwing ass holes, defeated every eight legged cunt in the room and beat the hunter. It was tense since I had 60k echoes but it was fun.
Mechanized
Member
So because one aspect is tedious it's ok to pile it on? Guys. Bloodborne is a good game, but it can have faults. The vial system is a fault. It's ok to admit it, it doesn't make the game bad. Defending obvious poor design choices like this is odd. From even corrected it in the past going from Demon's to Dark Souls with Estus Flasks.
hipsterpants
Member
Just have the blood vials auto-refill but cut them down to 10 or so. There, I made the blood vial system not awful, but it still forces you try to not take any damage. I can't understand why anyone would defend the present system in the game.
In other news, E
was disappointingly easy after hearing all the horror stories from here. She just ended up being like any other boss, stay close and take advantage of i-frames during your sidestep to not get hit. Only did the
twice, once when she died. Never got
because she was too close. Also never got
. I've come a long way since I was getting annihilated by the BSB.
Also a question, is there a trick to avoiding the frenzy/constant damage in
?
In other news, E
brietas
lasers
charged
frenzied
Also a question, is there a trick to avoiding the frenzy/constant damage in
Nightmare of Mensis
Yep, I ran the fuck out of the spiders+ the hunters.
They stop following you when you reach the big room area with those mini-dudes walking around.
I feel like I'm under leveled, but I'm probably over leveled. I'm lvl 39 with 24,16,18,14,9,8, Ludwig's Holy Blade +4, and 8 insight. I'm trying to do Hemwick Charnel Lane. I've killed BSB and VA wrecks me. My play style is... I try to parry, dodge, but I get hit by mobs that hit like a truck a lot more often than not. How do I get better? I practice while farming vials and blood echoes for hours upon hours in low level content? That's probably 50 hours in the first few zones. I feel like the difficulty should be more Diablo 3 like. Something easier than this to beat (maybe I should leave my shit on for 12 hours), then this, then throw in 15-20 insight, then NG+, NG++. Or maybe that would form bad habits. I can still keep bad habits over-leveling though. I don't know. I don't want to stop. The game is too good and I want to progress. But, it's bashing my face into brick.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
How do I get that armor set?
Frenzy gear and runes, helps *a lot*.
Your level is fine for that area. Also try not to force yourself to play a certain way. If you're getting killed because you can't get parries, then ignore them and just try to learn to dodge behind enemies. Lots of times if you can get the first hit on mobs with ludwigs you've won the battle.
I guess I'm speaking more toward the boss encounters. I never really felt like I was blowing a considerable amount of vials, with the threat of having to farm more, by just playing through an area.
The only time the current system really bothered me was at the very beginning of the game and then again whenever I got stuck on certain bosses and realized I had blown through my reserves. It would be nice to have a bare minimum you always have like the estus flask system. I do like that you can find more vials as you go through a level, I don't recall a mechanic like that in DaS. You could find grass along the way in DeS or sometimes buy it. Yeah, it's a bit of a pain, no argument there.
It's the basic hunter one that's for sale right away. Brotherhood of the Wolf is a movie with that hat on the movie poster.
Veritigo_X
Member
I'm not saying it's the same as the estus flask. There is a definite possibility to run out of vials, especially during boss fights you are having trouble with. The actual risk you are facing is stopping the boss for a few minutes and getting echoes/vials to continue fighting the boss again. It personally made me think about a boss fight instead of running in like a lemming. If I only have 2 vials in storage I'm going to be more careful about when I heal versus healing after every hit because fuck it I'm just going to get more when I die anyway.
Lower level chalice bosses have made me burn through my vials...specifically
abhorrent beast
phtumerian descendant in defiled/cursed chalice
Count me one on the side of not a big fan of the new healing system, it is easy for me to get vials too, I don't even use my echoes to level any more, have been staying put at lvl 95 for a while now so all the excess get used up on consumables, but still preferred estsus system overall.
Nobody is saying BB doesn't have it's flaw because boy howdy, it sure does. Vials? Not one of them. It's more people being so used to Flasks in DSI and DSII that refilled whenever you reached a bonfire and never ran out are now seeing resource management again with the vials and they don't like it. I don't feel that's a poor design choice.
Interfectum
Member
So you've provided no argument to combat what I've said other than I can't admit the game has faults and "dark souls did it different."
Just because you say "its bad design" doesn't make it so.
I rock Cainhurst helmet all day son.
I don't know if this was posted in this thread yet but I thought this was funny,it's [Bloodborne] [Image] What Bloodborne would be if it were made by pretty much any other developer
http://i.imgur.com/pYpAfgh.jpg
Sorry can't embed I'm on phone
http://i.imgur.com/pYpAfgh.jpg
Sorry can't embed I'm on phone
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Oooo. I thought you meant that metal armor set (not the Bone ash, the other one) with the nice helmet. Do you know that one?
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......
Haha, as soon as I saw that I knew the arachnophobiacs would go "nope". Someone should make a nope.gif with a hunter walking in and turning around as soon as they see that.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Going personal because you've got nothing else to say? What a trash response, almost equally as bad as Estus Flasks.
The system works. From Software developed the system for that specific reason. The whole idea behind blood vials is for the reasons I mentioned above - hence, why I'm saying that IT'S WORKING AS IT WAS INTENDED WHEN THEY WERE DEVELOPING THE GAME.
ROFLMAO SO FUNNY YESLol.
The frenzy only seems to hit one being at a time and enemies are susceptible to them. You can lure the giants out in the open and they'll sometimes just stand there taking the damage.
yeah that sounds awful
You will be able to make the constant frenzy go away after certain point in that area.
Requires one boss defeated IIRC to be able to get the source of it out.
I liked it because it made you actually scared of dying, especially when you've been stuck with half health for an entire level and finally kill the boss getting your health back. It made crawling through the next stage incredibly tense.
It also helped you get better with evading damage on the bosses since you didn't have the health to just take eat a bunch of hits.
Defeated the
in my first try and then went to defeat
on my second try. he killed me the first try cause I got to confident and stayed next to him when he put his weapons down, but learned the error of my ways and didn't make the same mistake second round. Also he did do the air attack a couple of times but didn't 1-hit KO me like most people said it do lol that was my biggest fear, but what did 1hit KO me was my first death with him.
wet nurse
gherman
thanks. He is truly brutal if you can't parry him. His second phase is bullshit because bullets doesn't parry him in some moves.
i'm a level 111, so i'm not sure i can join but whats your dungeon code so i can try to join.
edit: nvm mind you got him
Sword Of Doom
Member
In NG getting more vials was super easy. Central Yharnum in 10-15min i could max out. In NG+ and chalice dungeons I just buy the vials since I'm getting so many more echoes. For me this system has not been so bad
I also have to side with the Pro Estus here.
I mean, people here are arguing that the blood vials puts more pressure on bosses but atleast for me I face a boss the same way.
Hell, I had even more pressure with the Estus system, remember you start with 5 in DS and 2 in DS2 ! By the point you have 20 Estus it's equally the same point where you have a shit ton of Vials, and they're so easy to get with Echoes.
I mean, people here are arguing that the blood vials puts more pressure on bosses but atleast for me I face a boss the same way.
Hell, I had even more pressure with the Estus system, remember you start with 5 in DS and 2 in DS2 ! By the point you have 20 Estus it's equally the same point where you have a shit ton of Vials, and they're so easy to get with Echoes.
Grinding the same areas you have already mastered isn't practice. Its going through the motions to acquire a resource that is plentiful.
Except you too are talking out of both sides. On the one hand you say the ability to have enough vials is a cakewalk, so that bounty of resources takes away from any sort of risk aversion. Vial stocking just becomes something you have to do every now and then to continue moving forward. There is little in terms of risk aversion built into the system the way it is implemented. You aren't scared of dying the same way you were in Demons Souls. You aren't worried much at all. Furthermore bosses are more a issue of being at the right level and learning the pattern and weakness. That is how the game is built. So the finite vial issue just adds time to the process where you have to take a break to go get more vials. This becomes more of an issue in late chalice dungeons.
If the system was built in a way where access to health resources was more restrictive and the game balanced in way to support that, you would have a point, but it isn't. As you yourself admit. It is literally just a matter of wasting time to replenish it. The mechanic adds nothing of value and as the game progresses the mechanic becomes less and less defendable with the way it is executed. So yeah, the wasted time is a valid complaint. which you yourself later use as an argument you agree with me on in terms of the loading times and monotonous of HD visits. Such contradictory statements on your end.
The other valid complaint is that there are better systems in the soul series that have managed what you want the vial system to achieve. Such as the life bar lose in Demons Souls.
To be fair, you can easily run back to the boss area and pick your blood echoes back up if you enable the shortcuts and know your way around. I'm not sure if I would call not being able to progress if you don't beat a boss, a punishment.
Maybe this could have worked too, at times I thought having 20 of them at hand were too many, but I learned to be cautious and not use my vials every time I got struck by the enemy or my health was down and I could still recover some life by counterattacking. I think I started to be cautious because of the finite amount of vials, maybe I would have been a bit careless if they were infinite. I don't know and as I said, I didn't really need to farm vials during the normal game, maybe NG+ will change that
We'll see.Half health after death was only a thing in DeS. In Dark Souls you'd still be full health after death, in Dark Souls 2 you're only half health if you die 10 times without becoming human.
Mine is +7 I think, bloodtinge at 10.
I don't use it a lot, but that one shoot was crazy, never seen numbers that high, I guess she is very weak on the head.
Snkfanatic
Banned
Squee usually means cute...lol....I would not squee at all here.
Brick dude is fucking me up. He feels like 20 levels higher. I'm trying to jump attack in, but I can't execute it 100% of the time.
PodcastFips
Member
Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......
Dude, how did you fight
Rom
You can do it.
Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......
Literally just did this room and the hunter around the corner. If you lure out the back spiders one by one and then activate the front 4 (including giant spider), you can funnel them into the entrance. Once you do that, the giant spiders forearms will go through the wall, but if you are standing right in front of it, the arms will miss you completely and you can beat the hell out of it. The hunter? He got parried twice and died lol.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Bah bottom of the page!
ThatChairMan
Member
Even then, both the Cling Ring and Ring of Binding made the health loss much less impactful.
It subtly suggests to the player that they need to take a break. There are plenty of instances in this thread where players bash their heads against an enemy dozens of times only to come back after a break and overcome it with ease. Some could see it as artificial grind. I can't argue too hard against that point of view and I hate grind. However, for me the real grind is the one for chunks. Vials and Bullets were always very easy to resupply. The mechanic of suggesting that I step back really helped me out with
Pthumerian Descendent, Daughter of Chaos and Abhorrent Beast.
I have plenty of problems with Bloodborne's quirks. Not warping point to point is the biggest when those load times are as they are. Similarly being forced to warp back to restock on papers and whatnot is a problem. However, the vial system's biggest fault is that you are allowed to carry too many.
Sword Of Doom
Member
To be fair, you can easily run back to the boss area and pick your blood echoes back up if you enable the shortcuts and know your way around. I'm not sure if I would call not being able to progress if you don't beat a boss, a punishment.
Maybe this could have worked too, at times I thought having 20 of them at hand were too many, but I learned to be cautious and not use my vials every time I got struck by the enemy or my health was down and I could still recover some life by counterattacking. I think I started to be cautious because of the finite amount of vials, maybe I would have been a bit careless if they were infinite. I don't know and as I said, I didn't really need to farm vials during the normal game, maybe NG+ will change that
I also don't just start popping vials as soon as I encounter a boss. First couple of attempts I try to observe it's timing and behavior. I think the system encourages that
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