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[SgtCobra]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=159709357&postcount=268 - Read this and the and the original post that person was replying to.

We both know what what Steiner84 implied in his post and you replying to jim-jam bongs statement

This is becoming pointless.

Why hasn't this thread been closed yet.

But I never said its the PC crowds fault?
From what I can understand Steiner84 meant with his post that the PC in question can't play the games he likes and thus the system would be useless for him. Sure that post was completely irrelevant and had jack shit to do with the topic but he never said the PC didn't have games And that's what jim jam bongs implied with his post, i corrected that.


But you're right, we can discuss this the whole day and as far as I can see we both think we're in the right so just lets keep it at that. This won't lead to somewhere.

 

[The Janitor]

The point of this article wasn't that a £300 PC is the better choice, so I don't see the point in listing all the pros of the PS4.

It was simply to show that you'll get pretty much the same power with similar hardware, because a lot of people seem to believe you need a much more powerful PC to get PS4 performance.

 

[Swarna]

The point of this article wasn't that a £300 PC is the better choice, so I don't see the point in listing all the pros of the PS4.

It was simply to show that you'll get pretty much the same power with similar hardware, because a lot of people seem to believe you need a much more powerful PC to get PS4 performance.

If people understood it like this this thread wouldn't get beyond 2 pages.

 

[LilJoka]

well for example I believe Crytech's RYSE looks amazing on PC...and maybe that could be compared to say The Order....so then they can try to run RYSE on these types of PCs.

Are there any Racing games that exclusive to the PC that can match DriveClub? if so, again I'd like to see how they would run on these PCs.

I really am curious. I don't feel multiplat games are the best examples of what a system can output.

Maybe Assetto Corsa, its pretty easy on hardware requirements too.

Minimum PC requirements:
OS: Windows Vista SP2, 7, 8, 8.1
Processor: AMD Athlon X2 2.8 GHZ, Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ
Memory: 2 GB RAM
Graphics: DirectX 10.1 (AMD Radeon HD 6450, Nvidia GeForce GT 460)
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Hard Drive: 15 GB available space
Sound Card: Integrated

Recommended PC requirements:
OS: Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1
Processor: AMD Six-Core CPU, Intel Quad-Core CPU
Memory: 6 GB RAM
Graphics: DirectX 11 (AMD Radeon 290x, Nvidia GeForce GT 970)
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Hard Drive: 30 GB available space
Sound Card: Integrated

 

[Javin98]

unfortunately they do...

with that said, are there any PC games that look as good as

The Order
Driveclub
MLB The Show 15?

I mean it's obvious that these games won't be on PC anytime soon...but tech wise, are there PC games in those genres that we can test on these PC console machines?

This is mostly subjective, but I do agree The Order 1886 is the best looking game in the market currently. But we can't directly compare exclusives since they are literally "exclusive" to the platform. Unfortunately, multiplatforms so far have been disappointing visually in general, aside from a few exceptions like Batman Arkham Knight and The Witcher 3 and devs seem to have problems optimizing well for the PS4 despite the friendly architecture. I hope this changes soon.

 

[AJLma]

Some console fans are the equivalent of car fans who insist that their stock Ford Mustang is definitely faster than someone else's Bugatti Veyron. They're just not comfortable accepting that their platform of choice is in a lower tier.

I was just talking to someone about a week ago who swore to me that the new Mustang had a top speed of 225, and was faster than GTR's and Ferrari's.

I didn't bother to argue.

 

[CadetMahoney]

All I know is that if it's locked 60fps with no framedrops ever than it's more than good enough for me.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

It's not a fair comparison then, PS4 comes with an OS that can play all games.

That's not true.

Free OSes such as Linux and SteamOS are limited as to what games you can play, you have to buy Windows if you are buying a gaming PC instead of a console.

That's true for every system ever.

 

[Tenebrous]

well for example I believe Crytech's RYSE looks amazing on PC...and maybe that could be compared to say The Order....so then they can try to run RYSE on these types of PCs.

Are there any Racing games that exclusive to the PC that can match DriveClub? if so, again I'd like to see how they would run on these PCs.

I really am curious. I don't feel multiplat games are the best examples of what a system can output.

Project Cars vehicles on Ultra has a similar polycount (200-300k) to Driveclub on PS4.

 

[OmegaDL50]

As a mostly PC gamer myself, these article do really nothing and as soon as you look beyond the surface they're borderline dishonest.
"We'll leave the OS to you", no wifi, no bluetooth, no optical drive, no controller (aside from m/ kb), heavily relying on one time deals or in some cases used/ refurb parts even.
On top of that, these kind of articles really miss the point of pc gaming.

For a few hundreds more, you can get a vastly more capable rig, that has a ton of options for further upgrades, and that will be mostly future proof.

Or you can go with something like the Syber Vapor K if you want a small form.
Yes it's $700 more, but you get what you pay for (pre built with i5 4690 and GTX 970).

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/SYBER_VAPOR_K

This article? Useless.

Getting any Cyberpower PC is a risk due to the fact you don't even know what brand or make of PSU you are getting half the time.

Also you will pay at easily $200 to $300 more than if you just picked identical parts at PCpartpicker.

It's good to provide good advice, but using websites like CyberPower or BuyPower is asking to throw money away when one can get the same thing for substantially less AND likely superior.

No one likes to waste money. Especially when that extra cost comes at the expensive premium base on a name and not assured build and parts quality.

 

[Grief.exe]

As a mostly PC gamer myself, these article do really nothing and as soon as you look beyond the surface they're borderline dishonest.
"We'll leave the OS to you", no wifi, no bluetooth, no optical drive, no controller (aside from m/ kb), heavily relying on one time deals or in some cases used/ refurb parts even.
On top of that, these kind of articles really miss the point of pc gaming.

For a few hundreds more, you can get a vastly more capable rig, that has a ton of options for further upgrades, and that will be mostly future proof.

Or you can go with something like the Syber Vapor K if you want a small form.
Yes it's $700 more, but you get what you pay for (pre built with i5 4690 and GTX 970).

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/SYBER_VAPOR_K

This article? Useless.

I agreed with you until you linked a pre-built. Friends don't let friends buy pre-builts or headsets on PC. No point in wasting money.

This article is more like something you can do rather than you should do. Can we make something more powerful than the PS4 for cheap? Sure, but it is severely gimped to meet the price requirements.

Spend $100-200 more dollars and you will have an excellent mid-range PC that will stand the test of time.

 

[140.85]

As a mostly PC gamer myself, these article do really nothing and as soon as you look beyond the surface they're borderline dishonest.
"We'll leave the OS to you", no wifi, no bluetooth, no optical drive, no controller (aside from m/ kb), heavily relying on one time deals or in some cases used/ refurb parts even.
On top of that, these kind of articles really miss the point of pc gaming.

For a few hundreds more, you can get a vastly more capable rig, that has a ton of options for further upgrades, and that will be mostly future proof.

Or you can go with something like the Syber Vapor K if you want a small form.
Yes it's $700 more, but you get what you pay for (pre built with i5 4690 and GTX 970).

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/SYBER_VAPOR_K

This article? Useless.

Gotta agree with this. The closer you get to console price with a PC, the less incentive there is to do so. PC is a premium product and a PC as low as a console price point is always going to be a worse value for the reasons you mention. If one only likes PC gaming but is strapped for cash, better to save up a few hundred more.

 

[FunkyDealer]

Looking at Steam's most played games I'm not entirely sure you're really speaking for the average joe while casting many big PC games aside.

I'll have to take a look, but I'm on a trip (not that kind ;-) ) at the moment so it'll have to wait. I'm not speaking for the average joe, nobody really can, but I'm trying to work out based on typical popular games. Anyway I don't want to end up derailing the thread, but I'll check in later.

 

[alexandros]

Consoles beeing used more effectively the more experience developers have with it.
I don't see the same development on a random PC rig.

Why? Drivers mature, apis mature, OSes mature, developers mature. Check out the differences between Dark Souls 1 and 2, Saints Row 2 and 3, GTA4 and Max Payne 3 just to name a few examples. Not to mention that Vulkan and DX12 promise to offer some performance increases. There is no reason to believe that better use of the hardware is a console-only thing.

Even if it was, by the time developers manage to squeeze a bit more performance out of a console, PC tech will have progressed so much that everyone will be able to power past any difference with a cheap upgrade. In a couple of years it's possible that $60-80 graphics cards will be much more powerful than either console.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

There is no Cell, Xenos, or PowerPC's being used on this consoles you have a common x86 Bulldozer PC's on this consoles there no iceberg to discover or multiple SPU to learn how do they work.

You wont see the same jump on quality as the past gen.

Cell was extremely tricky to get behind, thats different with the Ps4s hardware.
But there is still a lot of potential yet to unlock.
I don't think this gen will last as long as the last one, but I think the visual progression will be equally as rapid. Just look at the first 2 years.
We already see steady progression when we look at exclusives(Killzone, Infamous, Driveclub, The Order) and bigger jumps when we look at multiplats(COD:Ghosts -> Advanced Warfare).
Others failed to improve anything(Battlefield 4 -> Hardline), but that doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement, it just means that developers choose not work on that front.

I think in 4 or 5 years we will have exclsuives on Ps4 that make Killzone Shadowfall look just as dated as Killzone 3 made Resistance 1 look.

No, we didnt. We saw better art to tech ratio/balance in exclusives.

I don't buy that.
Uncharted 3 didn't look miles better than Ucharted 1 because of better art.
Killzone 3 didn't look miles better than COD3 because of art.
And Driveclub doesn't look better than NFS Rival, Forza, PCars etc. because it has better art.
I would call these exclusives technologically impressive, not only artistically.
Bloodborne is an example for an artistically impressive game that isn't technologically impressive.

We regularly see developers squeezing more out of the hardware when making an exclusive title than when making a multiplat title.
Only very few devs manage to impress on a technological level with multiplatform releases on console. I'd count GTA V on last gen consoles here. You can see here that Rockstar spent a lot of time with the hardware to get the absolute best results.
On next gen and PC, they didn't. While looking clearly superior it doesn't exactly look like a game thats pushing modern hardware to its limits, but thats understandable since its a last gen game at the core.

 

[Nzyme32]

I agreed with you until you linked a pre-built. Friends don't let friends buy pre-builts or headsets on PC. No point in wasting money.

What's with the headset thing? I get that a lot of stuff is text chat based, but me and my friends all have our own varying range of headsets that we use to chat privately via the Steam voice chat function. It seems to work pretty well for us

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Well this thread went entirely as expected.

The purpose is as clear as day on a forum where consoles are constantly downplayed

Yeah, its consoles that are constantly downplayed on NeoGAF.

 

[Philtastic]

I think a real point of this article (intended or not) is that, because PC components have gotten a lot cheaper relative to consoles, you might as well make the PC that you would have needed anyway (for work or multimedia purposes) game-capable. Obviously, this guide is not intended for enthusiasts who would probably want to spend more for much better performance.

Also, love the console list wars. It's like there are no exclusive games on PC at all. I would only agree in so far as there aren't a lot of big budget, heavily marketed ones.

 

[Kelli Lemondrop]

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258
Alternative CPU: Intel Core i3 4150
Graphics Card: Nvidia GTX 750 Ti 2GB
Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33
RAM: 2x 4GB DDR3
Storage: 1TB 7200rpm Hard Drive
Case/Power Supply/Keyboard/Mouse: Gigabyte GZ-M5 All-in-One



I found the article interesting because they're actually trying to compare the games to the closest equivalent to console settings found on PC. If the game is locked at 30 on consoles then so they did on PC.

Source: The Digital Foundry 2015 budget gaming PC guide

The pentium is an AWFUL choice for gaming, because it lacks hyperthreading like the i3. you can't even play farcry 4 on the pentium without hacks, and more games will require 4 threads in the future. including software and input devices, you cannot match the ps4 for 300 GBP. Furthermore, the 750ti is MUCH weaker than the ps4 gpu, the 750ti is a fair match for the Xbone though.

 

[psn]

You could build a better pc for 400€ before the ps4 even launched.

With a blu Ray disc drive? I dont think so. If you use some used parts maybe. A 7850 alone costs around 180-200.

 

[m@cross]

Good thing the OS is free......

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

you cannot match the ps4 for 300 GBP.

Under different criteria, you cannot match the PC for all the money in the world.

EDIT:

Good thing the OS is free......

http://store.steampowered.com/steamos

 

[Kelli Lemondrop]

Under different criteria, you cannot match the PC for all the money in the world.

EDIT:


http://store.steampowered.com/steamos

steamos won't let you play every single game that you can play in windows, it is therefore completely irrelevant in this argument. for a gaming pc, windows is and will remain the only viable choice when looking at the big picture. even with a free OS, you can't hit a 300GBP pricepoint for a complete system that is spec for spec a match for the ps4 in every single area.

 

[Prophet Steve]

With a blu Ray disc drive? I dont think so. If you use some used parts maybe. A 7850 alone costs around 180-200.

No, but maybe performance-wise which is what this article is about.

 

[Viliger]

What's with the headset thing? I get that a lot of stuff is text chat based, but me and my friends all have our own varying range of headsets that we use to chat privately via the Steam voice chat function. It seems to work pretty well for us

Headsets are the same as pre-builts, you are paying more for less.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

steamos won't let you play every single game that you can play in windows, it is therefore completely irrelevant in this argument.

How is it irrelevant?
Why is "must play every single game playable in Windows" an unstated requirement for comparison?

Even if you only choose games playable on SteamOS the list of available titles for a SteamOS powered gaming PC dwarfs the PS4 library.

 

[Nzyme32]

steamos won't let you play every single game that you can play in windows, it is therefore completely irrelevant in this argument. for a gaming pc, windows is and will remain the only viable choice when looking at the big picture.

That's not really the point. The point is, that is a free OS, should you want it and should you be fine with not being able to play some games on Windows. In the end, that is what the thread is about - performance and choice. The fact SteamOS already has so many games bodes well for it so ridiculously early on.

 

[Kelli Lemondrop]

How is it irrelevant?
Why is "must play every single game playable in Windows" an unstated requirement for comparison?

Even if you only choose games playable on SteamOS the list of available titles for a SteamOS powered gaming PC dwarfs the PS4 library.

until every single multiplatform AAA game comes out in steamos, with roughly equivalent performance on AMD and Nvidia parts of the same hardware class, as is the case with windows, steamos is a completely worthless OS for a hardcore gamer sorry.

That's not really the point. The point is, that is a free OS, should you want it and should you be fine with not being able to play some games on Windows. In the end, that is what the thread is about - performance and choice. The fact SteamOS already has so many games bodes well for it so ridiculously early on.

it isnt early on though, its linux, its a 2 decade old OS. besides all that, you can't get ps4 equivalent specs for 300GBP even ignoring windows. a 750ti won't do it, you need a 280/280X/GTX 960 which is 160GBP by itself. You also can't use the pentium, because it already won't play some recent releases due to lack of hardware threads, so FX6300/intel i3 minimum. those two parts even without a motherboard will run you near the 300GBP, let alone case, power supply, ram, storage.

 

[King_Moc]

steamos won't let you play every single game that you can play in windows, it is therefore completely irrelevant in this argument. for a gaming pc, windows is and will remain the only viable choice when looking at the big picture. even with a free OS, you can't hit a 300GBP pricepoint for a complete system that is spec for spec a match for the ps4 in every single area.

Steeam OS runs 1003 games, it's not 'irrelevant'. That's like arguing the ps4 is irrelevant because it doesn't run ps1, 2 or 3 games.

 

[alexandros]

Steeam OS runs 1003 games, it's not 'irrelevant'. That's like arguing the ps4 is irrelevant because it doesn't run ps1, 2 or 3 games.

An excellent point.

 

[Massa]

I agreed with you until you linked a pre-built. Friends don't let friends buy pre-builts or headsets on PC. No point in wasting money.

This article is more like something you can do rather than you should do. Can we make something more powerful than the PS4 for cheap? Sure, but it is severely gimped to meet the price requirements.

Spend $100-200 more dollars and you will have an excellent mid-range PC that will stand the test of time.

A pre-built PC is a waste of money in the same way that researching for parts, buying them separately and then building your own PC is a waste of time. Different people have different priorities.

(fyi I've had a CPU die on a PC and I've had a DOA mobo another time, and in both cases it was a pain and a waste of time to troubleshoot, even though I loved doing that kind of shit at the time).

 

[Grief.exe]

What's with the headset thing? I get that a lot of stuff is text chat based, but me and my friends all have our own varying range of headsets that we use to chat privately via the Steam voice chat function. It seems to work pretty well for us

Extremely poor audio quality, and build quality, for the price. They are just a bad value and I hate seeing people waste money.

Grab a modmic and a nice pair of headphones and be blown away.

A pre-built PC is a waste of money in the same way that researching for parts, buying them separately and then building your own PC is a waste of time. Different people have different priorities.

(fyi I've had a CPU die on a PC and I've had a DOA mobo another time, and in both cases it was a pain and a waste of time to troubleshoot, even though I loved doing that kind of shit at the time).

GAF will literally tell you what parts to buy and vendors have building services for relatively cheap considering the alternative.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

until every single multiplatform AAA game comes out in steamos, with roughly equivalent performance on AMD and Nvidia parts of the same hardware class, as is the case with windows, steamos is a completely worthless OS for a hardcore gamer sorry.

I guess if your definition of "hardcore gamer" is "only plays AAA multiplatform titles, that must have equivalent AMD and NVidia performance".
Interesting definition.

Steeam OS runs 1003 games, it's not 'irrelevant'. That's like arguing the ps4 is irrelevant because it doesn't run ps1, 2 or 3 games.

Ironically you can run PS1 and PS2 games better on SteamOS than you can on the PS4.

 

[Sendou]

Steeam OS runs 1003 games, it's not 'irrelevant'. That's like arguing the ps4 is irrelevant because it doesn't run ps1, 2 or 3 games.

Indeed and those are just the ones available natively on Linux straight from Steam. In addition we have Linux games not available on Steam and Windows games you can play using WINE.

 

[Kelli Lemondrop]

Steeam OS runs 1003 games, it's not 'irrelevant'. That's like arguing the ps4 is irrelevant because it doesn't run ps1, 2 or 3 games.

how many of those 1003 games aren't indie games? 15? 20? This argument is irrelevant to the topic anyways. you cannot match the ps4 spec for spec in every area for 300GBP, or even 400.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

That's not true.

What games made for the system don't work then?

That's true for every system ever.

Yeah but in this instance comparing £300 like for like isn't fair because if you only had £300 you'd have to resort to either piracy or spending £80 from your hardware budget on an OS if you wanted to play PC games.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It's like the people that complain about articles like this (usually the same ones) think no one is aware of their post history.

 

[ricki42]

steamos won't let you play every single game that you can play in windows, it is therefore completely irrelevant in this argument. for a gaming pc, windows is and will remain the only viable choice when looking at the big picture.

It won't let you play every single game that's on Windows, but it'll let you play more games than are on PS4. It really depends on which games you want to play, Linux can be very much a viable option on a gaming PC. I run Linux, I've recently been enjoying PoE, Cities:Skylines, Tropico 5, Bioshock Infinite, Talos Principle, Shadowrun, Age of Empires III... and a whole bunch more. I already have a huge backlog on Linux, and a lot more games have been announced, so I really don't see what's not viable about that unless you absolutely want a specific game that's Windows only (which is fair enough, but doesn't invalidate the platform in general for everyone).

 

[Prophet Steve]

until every single multiplatform AAA game comes out in steamos, with roughly equivalent performance on AMD and Nvidia parts of the same hardware class, as is the case with windows, steamos is a completely worthless OS for a hardcore gamer sorry.



it isnt early on though, its linux, its a 2 decade old OS. besides all that, you can't get ps4 equivalent specs for 300GBP even ignoring windows. a 750ti won't do it, you need a 280/280X/GTX 960 which is 160GBP by itself. You also can't use the pentium, because it already won't play some recent releases due to lack of hardware threads, so FX6300/intel i3 minimum. those two parts even without a motherboard will run you near the 300GBP, let alone case, power supply, ram, storage.

What the hell are you on about?

First of all why should a hardcore gamer need to play all the multiplatform AAA games? That don't exactly have the highest quality reputation nowadays.

And the 750 Ti is enough to compete, it is what the article is about, that the games perform about the same. The pentium could use an upgrade to the i3 yes, although it might perform the same in games if developers wouldn't lock them out.

And it is early on since the gaming push for Linux started. Yes, the OS it self is decades old but in recent years the amount of gaming support has increased by a huge amount.

 

[Foxyone]

....Furthermore, the 750ti is MUCH weaker than the ps4 gpu, the 750ti is a fair match for the Xbone though.

And yet strangely has similar performance, or slightly better in some cases.

 

[Massa]

GAF will literally tell you what parts to buy and vendors have building services for relatively cheap considering the alternative.

Well... if you're paying someone for parts and service then you're buying a pre-built PC. Then it's a matter of picking the best vendor available in your area.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

There is no way I would waste my time building a gaming PC with a $399 budget. I've spent 4 times that on one.

 

[Elitist1945]

Do threads like this always turn this ugly?

 

[Kelli Lemondrop]

Hell, the motherboard chosen in the article in the OP is a fucking terrible choice for a haswell refresh chip, you are looking at very specific 8 series boards that are 100% guaranteed to come with the bios update out of the box, or the H97/Z97, which increases costs further. its a fucking terrible idea to list the cheapest possible motherboard that has the same socket type, because compatibility isnt guaranteed.

 

[StevieP]

The pentium is an AWFUL choice for gaming, because it lacks hyperthreading like the i3. you can't even play farcry 4 on the pentium without hacks, and more games will require 4 threads in the future. including software and input devices, you cannot match the ps4 for 300 GBP. Furthermore, the 750ti is MUCH weaker than the ps4 gpu, the 750ti is a fair match for the Xbone though.

The 750ti produces better results than the ps4 GPU, despite its "on paper" weakness in comparison. There have been countless threads here where multi plats have been compared with this very same hardware that the PC comes out on top in some (or all) fashions. The gap should increase with the thinning of PC APIs too.

 

[Prophet Steve]

Hell, the motherboard chosen in the article in the OP is a fucking terrible choice for a haswell refresh chip, you are looking at very specific 8 series boards that are 100% guaranteed to come with the bios update out of the box, or the H97/Z97, which increases costs further. its a fucking terrible idea to list the cheapest possible motherboard that has the same socket type, because compatibility isnt guaranteed.

It is guaranteed, you'll just have to update it, it works, what are you complaining about?

 

[Netrunner2k2]

how many of those 1003 games aren't indie games? 15? 20? This argument is irrelevant to the topic anyways. you cannot match the ps4 spec for spec in every area for 300GBP, or even 400.

Do indie games not count? What do you define as one anyways?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Do threads like this always turn this ugly?

Unfortunately.

 

[Kelli Lemondrop]

It is guaranteed, you'll just have to update it, it works, what are you complaining about?

problem is, you CANT update it without access to an older processor on 99% of motherboards. if you bought that exact cpu and motherboard right now, chances are it wouldnt even post. its not wise to reccomend parts that arent GUARANTEED to be compatible, if digitalfoundry wasn't being disingenuous, they would use an H97 board in their build, as well as a power supply that wont shit the bed from some terrible case/psu/keyboard/mouse bundle.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

What games made for the system don't work then?

That's a bit tautological question. All I know is that PS4 can't play every game in existence.

Yeah but in this instance comparing £300 like for like isn't fair because if you only had £300 you'd have to resort to either piracy or spending £80 from your hardware budget on an OS if you wanted to play PC games.

You don't need Windows to play PC games. You need Windows to play Windows games.