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[JesseEwiak]

All you revisionist history people make me sick. If you are so 100% certain he wasn't over and wasn't a draw, then prove it.

Go look at the ratings numbers, the house show numbers, and the PPV (pre-network) numbers during his main event push. They never changed, and they never showed any movement. Throughout his entire main event run, the #1 ratings draw on RAW was still John Cena.

Look, I love Bryan as a wrestler. But, this myth among the wrestlezone readers of the world that he was somehow going to be the next Austin or Rock is just that, a myth. I mean, I don't even like Punk, but his post-pipebomb era had a much larger chance of getting mainstream pub and movement for the WWE if they did it right than a standard 'babyface overcomes heel ownership' storyline ever did.

 

[VoxPop]

All you revisionist history people make me sick. If you are so 100% certain he wasn't over and wasn't a draw, then prove it.

Not exactly some crazy evidence but some segment ratings from an old RAW where Bryan won in the main event.

Finally, and this is some seriously damning stuff, but the Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton No Disqualification match that featured Bryan getting his big main event victory over one of the most protected stars on the roster gained only 104,000 viewers to a 2.92 overrun. That's downright awful, and it represents one of the worst main event numbers in a very long time.

in contrast

Stephanie McMahon's announcement of the WWE title Money in the Bank ladder match participants and some backstage stuff, including the making of Chris Jericho vs. Ryback at Money in the Bank, gained 136,000 viewers.

a Jericho vs Ryback ANNOUNCEMENT drew more viewers

 

[somedevil]

Verendus, Batista Bomb this dude.

Why whats so wrong about it? People were there for Bryan. The whole show was about Bryan winning the title. Batista was just there to watch.

 

[Kaiterra]

Good look at the ratings numbers, the house show numbers, and the PPV (pre-network) numbers during his main event push. They never changed, and they never showed any movement. Throughout his entire main event run, the #1 ratings draw on RAW was still John Cena.

You have access to and have thoroughly analyzed all that data on a granular enough level to make those claims?

Not exactly some crazy evidence but some segment ratings from an old RAW where Bryan won in the main event.

in contrast

a Jericho vs Ryback ANNOUNCEMENT drew more viewers

Is this comparing the same date vs. the previous year or what?

 

[VoxPop]

I am in fact telling you that.

It's also worth noting that their other option was Batista, who was not that over, was past his prime, was never that popular in his prime to begin with, who already had a big wrestlemania moment, and who wasn't going to be with the company for the long term. It would have been a disaster.

I was at WM 30 and I can tell you that at the event and at that entire weekend leading up to the show every single person was there to see Daniel Bryan win the title. Nobody gave a fuck about any other card on the match, even the Undertaker one (until he lost). 75k people out of 75k were there for exactly one reason. I've been to quite a few wrestling shows and I've never seen anything like it.

Would you say someone like Dolph Ziggler wouldn't have gotten the same treatment if put in the same position?

Was it Bryan's popularity or the fact that people just don't give a shit about Orton/Batista and Bryan being the only decent guy available?

 

[TheStruggler]

https://gifsound.com/?gif=i.minus.com/iZvX1A8jPevFh.gif&v=8tuvz_9D7Ok

feel bad for laughing, poor guy

 

[JesseEwiak]

You have access to and have thoroughly analyzed all that data on a granular enough level to make those claims?

I've had access to that data (it's called an Observer subscription) and along with my own knowledge, listened to enough people smarter than me about wrestling say largely the same thing.

 

[Cagey]

You have access to and have thoroughly analyzed all that data on a granular enough level to make those claims?

Likewise do you have the data demonstrating he did draw? He was a draw for you. That doesn't mean he was a Draw.

 

[Archaix]

Would you say someone like Dolph Ziggler wouldn't have gotten the same treatment if put in the same position?

Was it Bryan's popularity or the fact that people just don't give a shit about Orton/Batista and Bryan being the only decent guy available?

Did Dolph Ziggler's absence turn Rey Mysterio into the biggest bad guy during the Royal Rumble last year?

 

[cr_blah_blah]

who knew everyone from MMA-GAF was the same generic poster

 

[Kaiterra]

Likewise do you have the data demonstrating he did draw? He was a draw for you. That doesn't mean he was a Draw.

I could just as easily go point at WM30 being the most viewed one overall up to that date. Seems just as meaningful as what's been pointed out here. I don't think either of us have the info to make the claim with total certainty as to how much of a draw he was but acting like he was a nobody is fucking nonsense.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Would you say someone like Dolph Ziggler wouldn't have gotten the same treatment if put in the same position?

Was it Bryan's popularity or the fact that people just don't give a shit about Orton/Batista and Bryan being the only decent guy available?

Both probably. I dont think he was going to be the next SCSA but I think he was definitely over at the time and it would have been to have Batista win the title instead of him at that moment in time.

I'm not sure what treatment you are referring to. Bryan was stuck in a comedy team with Kane and then in a mid card angle with Bray Wyatt until his reactions pretty much forced the WWE to elevate him. It's not like he received special treatment or anything

 

[somedevil]

Likewise do you have the data demonstrating he did draw? He was a draw for you. That doesn't mean he was a Draw.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_77624.shtml#.VS8UmvnF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_78083.shtml#.VS8UpvnF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_78252.shtml#.VS8Up_nF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_77409.shtml#.VS8Ur_nF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_77111.shtml

Here is some

 

[JesseEwiak]

I could just as easily go point at WM30 being the most viewed one overall up to that date. Seems just as meaningful as what's been pointed out here. I don't think either of us have the info to make the claim with total certainty as to how much of a draw he was but acting like he was a nobody is fucking nonsense.

It being launched with the Network means that a blank test pattern would've been the most watched Wrestlemania of all time. And also there's the small matter that WM this year, without Bryan on top, probably did just as good or even better than WM last year, while drawing the same amount of people.

Wrestlemania draws because it's Wrestlemania. Look at all the other PPV's Bryan main evented before Wrestlemania. How did they do, in comparison to prior years?

 

[JesseEwiak]

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_77624.shtml#.VS8UmvnF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_78083.shtml#.VS8UpvnF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_78252.shtml#.VS8Up_nF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_77409.shtml#.VS8Ur_nF-So

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_77111.shtml

Here is some

http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2014/01/dissecting-raw-ratings-by-person.html

 

[TheStruggler]

this still makes the hair stick up on the back of my neck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttiGTC5B2gg

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Also worth noting that when the Yes thing was at his peak Bryan sold a ton of merch

 

[Kaiterra]

It being launched with the Network means that a blank test pattern would've been the most watched Wrestlemania of all time. And also there's the small matter that WM this year, without Bryan on top, probably did just as good or even better than WM last year, while drawing the same amount of people.

Wrestlemania draws because it's Wrestlemania. Look at all the other PPV's Bryan main evented before Wrestlemania. How did they do, in comparison to prior years?

I think you misunderstood what I was going for. You kind of made that point for me. It's that there are more variables at play with the numbers being analyzed here than just his presence.

I'm not claiming Bryan was the BIGGEST STAR IN THE UNIVERSE or that he was legit the next Stone Cold (it's possible! Who the fuck knows, but I don't seriously believe it). But to use the numbers provided as a way to say he was absolutely nothing is ludicrous unless you're trying to say that pretty much nobody in the WWE is over because bad numbers have rolled in at different times with everybody up to and including Cena. The futility of looking at that info is why I stopped reading those headlines a while ago.

 

[Heel]

https://gifsound.com/?gif=i.minus.com/iZvX1A8jPevFh.gif&v=8tuvz_9D7Ok

 

[ggnoobIGN]

Bryan was on top for a couple months. Would love to see how much other stars since the attitude era have moved numbers so drastically, so quickly.

 

[dream]

Original response. But what should I expect from someone with a piggyback username?

How has nobody bothered to straighten Hardcore Wrestling Fan out about this?

 

[Paracelsus]

What's been bigger

Also worth noting that when the Yes thing was at his peak Bryan sold a ton of merch

WWE's current top merchandise sellers at live event are, in order, John Cena, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk

CM Punk

March The Thirteenth, MMXIV

They really hated the guy, like they hated his very existence in this world, because he was already dead and buried a year before this article and he still kept selling.

 

[VoxPop]

I could just as easily go point at WM30 being the most viewed one overall up to that date. Seems just as meaningful as what's been pointed out here. I don't think either of us have the info to make the claim with total certainty as to how much of a draw he was but acting like he was a nobody is fucking nonsense.

Lol @ Mania drawing because of Bryan. Mania draws because its Mania. You could put Rollins vs El Torito as the main event and it'd still sell a similar # of PPV buys.

Brock + The Rock actually boosted the buys of B-Tier PPVs while Bryan failed to even move the needle.

Both probably. I dont think he was going to be the next SCSA but I think he was definitely over at the time and it would have been to have Batista win the title instead of him at that moment in time.

I'm not sure what treatment you are referring to. Bryan was stuck in a comedy team with Kane and then in a mid card angle with Bray Wyatt until his reactions pretty much forced the WWE to elevate him. It's not like he received special treatment or anything

I don't disagree that he was over for a little bit of time when Punk was on his way out and when the YES chants started catching on. But to say he was some kind of mega draw like Austin/Rock is a huge stretch. I'd say he is on maybe a DDP level of popularity to the casual fan and around the same level or a little lower than CM Punk was to the smarks.

The company was pretty much a joke since after Punk's pipebomb explosion and didn't really reinvent itself till Brock decided it was time for him to carry the torch.

 

[somedevil]

http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2014/01/dissecting-raw-ratings-by-person.html

Your link doesn't mean nothing because it goes up to Oct 2013 while what I posted takes place after that.

It doesn't matter though because I know your posting history and nothing I post will change your opinion.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I don't disagree that he was over for a little bit of time when Punk was on his way out and when the YES chants started catching on. But to say he was some kind of mega draw like Austin/Rock is a huge stretch. I'd say he is on maybe a DDP level of popularity to the casual fan and around the same level or a little lower than CM Punk was to the smarks.

The company was pretty much a joke since after Punk's pipebomb explosion and didn't really reinvent itself till Brock decided it was time for him to carry the torch.

He's definitely not SCSA or the Rock level, but he was over at the time and he was the best option they had. He was never more popular than Cena but nobody wanted to see Cena win the main event of that mania and CM Punk quit.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Your link doesn't mean nothing because it goes up to Oct 2013 while what I posted takes place after that.

It doesn't matter though because I know your posting history and nothing I post will change your opinion.

And nothing will change your opinion that BryDan was buried by the evil, evil WWE who hated him.

 

[Paracelsus]

Bryan is the fourth wrestler to reach the pinnacle of the company with a damaged neck but the first one to give it up so quickly it's almost like he never won it. Austin went for over a year in that miserable condition, Angle went on for six, Edge for five.

Even if you look at Austin his damage was much worse, yet he took only a bit more time off, came back, had a full year run at the top, then kinda retired. Bryan was never back full time since he got surgery.

 

[Ithil]

The guy hasn't drawn a dime and got over because of a catchy chant (which I wouldnt be surprised were made up by the writers). His in ring work is good at best and he isn't exactly the best actor the company has.

He doesn't have the look or promo skills to carry the company title (not that many who have held it deserved it either) and was purely given the title out of pity and backlash of internet marks. I can clearly see why he wasn't chosen to be 'the guy' by the higher ups.

Nowhere even close to the mainstream popularity of guys like Cena or even Punk. Hell if anything, Total Divas put him on the map as the Bellas are more popular to the casual eye. There hasn't been anyone able to carry the company since Rock/Austin and Cena being the only one who even came close based purely on his work ethic.

and have we forgotten about Brock fucking Lesnar?

The way you perceive things is fascinating.

 

[Kaiterra]

And nothing will change your opinion that BryDan was buried by the evil, evil WWE who hated him.

If the numbers in the article posted were supposed to prove anything and WWE is TOTALLY making 100% rational decisions all the time based on the numbers about this stuff, explain running with Orton and not running with Punk or with Cena after his comeback (Brock they obviously had very specific plans for that worked out better in the long run).

Hell, think of it this way: If Bryan was totally undeserving of the main event at that time, who DID deserve it over him, then? And why? Because they weren't putting Cena or Punk in that spot either, you know?

My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be up to the fans to analyze that shit anyway. The show should just be compelling and entertaining and satisfying to watch on its own and seeing your favorite guy made out to be a chump repeatedly really does bring it down. It would on any TV show. Why feel the need to out-smark the smarks by bringing it up to that level? I think that kind of attitude is just as smarky and self-righteous as anything.

Everyone in this thread, myself included, is a mark and doesn't know how the business truly works at that level, at least not enough to make absolute statements like "Bryan never drew a dime" or "Only the chant was over." I don't give a shit how many Observer newsletters you've read. If people don't like Bryan, then just say so, but to pretend that is the general sentiment is just projecting. Nobody is going to be The Rock or Stone Cold ever again in this era, because wrestling is just not that popular and the general TV audience is highly fragmented to start with, but you don't have to be at that level to be over.

 

[Ithil]

Not exactly some crazy evidence but some segment ratings from an old RAW where Bryan won in the main event.in contrast
a Jericho vs Ryback ANNOUNCEMENT drew more viewers

You named a match from July 2013. Before Bryan was ever in the main event.
Perhaps you should have looked at the pre-WM 30 RAWs, when he consistently had the highest rated segments.

If you're gonna cherrypick, anyway.

 

[Kaiterra]

You named a match from July 2013. Before Bryan was ever in the main event.
Perhaps you should have looked at the pre-WM 30 RAWs, when he consistently had the highest rated segments.

If you're gonna cherrypick, anyway.

Jeez I didn't even catch that.

 

[VoxPop]

You named a match from July 2013. Before Bryan was ever in the main event.
Perhaps you should have looked at the pre-WM 30 RAWs, when he consistently had the highest rated segments.

If you're gonna cherrypick, anyway.

And the Miz had the highest rated segments going into his Mania main event.

How were Bryan's ratings on an average raw? Or even since his return?

 

[Kaiterra]

And the Miz had the highest rated segments going into his Mania main event.

How were Bryan's ratings on an average raw? Or even since his return?

You tell me, since you're Mr. Ratings Czar.

(Also, the Miz was totally over. He got Alex fucking Riley over for a time just because of how much heat he had.)

 

[Heel]

Is there a ratings comparison for Bryan's title reign after WrestleMania compared to this year so far? The RAW after Mania had better ratings this year, didn't it?

 

[dream]

And the Miz had the highest rated segments going into his Mania main event.

How were Bryan's ratings on an average raw? Or even since his return?

Well, Dave Meltzer touched on this in the February 2, 2015 issue of the Observer:

The problem with Bryan is that when he comes out with his size and the way he looks is that someone with a producer eye is simply going to think he can’t be the guy. And the fact he hasn’t been a mover in the key metrics for all the chants is seen to justify it in the sense the ease in others getting people to do the chant and his good but not great merch sales and ticket sales to shows when he’s the key guy did tell the company a story that the chants don’t mean what those who don’t have access to those numbers think they mean.

 

[DMczaf]

Is there a ratings comparison for Bryan's title reign after WrestleMania compared to this year so far? The RAW after Mania had better ratings this year, didn't it?

Here is this week's

Raw felt greatly from last week's show which went against the highest rated NCAA final in moer than a decade and was near record low levels.

The show was one of the least watched episode of Raw in the modern era that was not during football season or a non-holiday show, doing 3.66 million viewers, down 23% from the same week one year ago.

The three hours were:

8 p.m. 3.69 million viewers

9 p.m. 3.79 million viewers

10 p.m. 3.53 million viewers

DBry doin the thang

 

[Vestal]

Bryan is the fourth wrestler to reach the pinnacle of the company with a damaged neck but the first one to give it up so quickly it's almost like he never won it. Austin went for over a year in that miserable condition, Angle went on for six, Edge for five.

Even if you look at Austin his damage was much worse, yet he took only a bit more time off, came back, had a full year run at the top, then kinda retired. Bryan was never back full time since he got surgery.

Bryans size/gimmick simply does not lend itself to a brawler style such as Austin took. Not to mention that Austin was actually protected in his matches, were as Bryan gets thrown in on ladder matches or a Match with fucking Sheamus in which he gives no fucks apparently.

 

[VoxPop]

You tell me, since you're Mr. Ratings Czar.

(Also, the Miz was totally over. He got Alex fucking Riley over for a time just because of how much heat he had.)

Ok, random RAW since his return

This week’s Raw main event featuring Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins showed a significant ratings decline, reports the Wrestling Observer Newsletter.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that Bryan is weak in the spot, but it does demonstrate that Bryan vs Rollins was not strong as a main event. The match was built up throughout Raw’s three hours, with the opening segment establishing that Bryan would face Rollins to see who would go on to face Roman Reigns at Fast Lane.
The fact that viewers didn’t stick around to see the match, could be a signal to the WWE that Bryan’s popularity is limited to a vocal minority. Numbers don’t lie and as popular as Bryan is in chants and social media, the fact is that viewers tuned out this week when he was put as the main event. WWE executives will take note of that, as tv ratings are still what McMahon and company obsess over. The decline for the third hour is normal, but to be the franchise guy in WWE you really need to be showing some level of impact in the numbers.
It’s also disappointing for Rollins. In essence, this week’s Raw main event was the number one face versus the number one heel. They are two of the best workers in the world, yet WWE fans who started watching the broadcast didn’t stay tuned to watch them. Can you imagine any other time when the WWE’s number one face and number one heel would result in losses? It certainly wouldn’t have happened with an Austin or Rock.

 

[Heel]

Here is this week's



DBry doin the thang

This is right around when Daniel and Brie were fleeing from Kane in a car, right? Not fair to compare ratings gold to a taped RAW from London.

 

[TunaMarshmallow]

Well, Dave Meltzer touched on this in the February 2, 2015 issue of the Observer: [snip]

Melzer really Melzered that sentence. My god.

 

[Ithil]

Is there a ratings comparison for Bryan's title reign after WrestleMania compared to this year so far? The RAW after Mania had better ratings this year, didn't it?

Not exactly.

The Raw after WrestleMania on 3/30 exploded with 3.67 rating and 5.35 million viewers, the largest number of viewers for an episode since the July 23, 2012, 100th episode of Raw that did a 3.86 rating and 6.04 million viewers. 6,019,000 viewers.

Last year’s Raw after WrestleMania did a 3.69 rating and 5.14 million viewers, going head-to-head with the NCAA basketball finals that did 17.79 million viewers. So really, last year’s number was more impressive because this year they had the advantage of not going against the NCAA finals. The Raw after WrestleMania tradition of big ratings is weird. It is usually the most-watched episode of the year, but it’s still always hurt by the NCAA finals.

In 2013, they did a 3.43 rating and 4.61 million viewers going against a basketball game that did 23.43 million viewers, and in 2012 they did a 3.43 rating and 5.02 million viewers, going against a game that did 20.87 million viewers. This year did the most viewers for a Raw after Mania since 2011, which did a 3.84 rating and 5.62 million viewers.

Last year’s show also drew a lot of attention due to Undertaker’s streak ending and Daniel Bryan’s title win. Still, even if last year’s number would have been significantly higher if it wasn’t going against the basketball game, this shows that the interest in the product the next day was probably not that far off the day after breaking Undertaker’s streak, which was huge.

 

[VoxPop]

Not exactly.

Sounds like Brock/Taker is the draw. Not Bryan.

 

[Ithil]

Ok, random RAW since his return

Instead of whatever unsourced version you have, this is the actual Observer extract that's referring to:

The bad news is that the show built for a Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins match, where the winner would face Roman Reigns at Fast Lane, for the Mania title shot. Putting Bryan back in the game and in the main event wound up with a significant third hour decline. Granted, most episodes of Raw in standard time (as opposed to daylight savings time when people tune in later and last longer) fall significantly in the third hour. The drop doesn’t say Bryan was weak in the spot, but it does say Bryan vs. Rollins was not strong in the spot either.

On this

Sounds like Brock/Taker is the draw. Not Bryan.

Last year’s show also drew a lot of attention due to Undertaker’s streak ending and Daniel Bryan’s title win.

So you literally just read whatever you wanted out of that sentence then?

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Shave his face, put him in a wheelchair, give him a balloon to hold and let him work the mic as Daniel "Maybe?" Bryan, a constantly concussed bumbling dolt.

The show most go on. There's money to be made.

He can be Cena's make a wish manager.

 

[Barrage]

Bryan got incredible live reactions, but never grew the audience or grew the business while on top. I knew he would never be "The Guy" for the long haul when his Summerslam Main-Event against Cena drew like shit. You can't hang the company on a guy when people won't pay to see him win the big one.

{Wrestlemania exempted, because that draws due to being Wrestlemania).

 

[Vylash]

"Bryan was over, not the chant"

 

[dream]

I think Big Dave is being charitable there. When they're building to a match where Daniel Bryan gets a shot at a WrestleMania shot by winning, and the audience tunes out in droves, that is absolutely an indication that Bryan was "weak in the spot."

 

[Ithil]

Bryan got incredible live reactions, but never grew the audience or grew the business while on top. I knew he would never be "The Guy" for the long haul when his Summerslam Main-Event against Cena drew like shit. You can't hang the company on a guy when people won't pay to see him win the big one.

{Wrestlemania exempted, because that draws due to being Wrestlemania).

No one "grows the business". Cena doesn't, Batista didn't, Punk didn't, Orton hasn't.
It's not that kind of business anymore, not in WWE.

 

[VoxPop]

Instead of whatever unsourced version you have, this is the actual Observer extract that's referring to:

It's clear Bryan isn't a draw from the very paragraph you posted.

Sure Bryan didn't gain any viewers, but would the Rock or Austin have lost that many viewers?

On this





So you literally just read whatever you wanted out of that sentence then?

Mmm yes that RAW must have blown up cause of Bryan's scintillating interncontinental championship win.

Or wait could it have been cause of the great main event ending??

Or even the year before. You're telling me RAW drew good ratings because Bryan beat Randy Orton and Batista? Because that sure is damn more interesting than a 20+ year streak ending.

 

[Kaiterra]

Why are you so hung up on comparing Bryan to Austin or The Rock? That was a different time and if you apply those standards to the entire roster you're going to find them all wanting. I don't see why you're selectively holding him up to a higher standard.