Daniel Bryan pulled from Euro tour (UPDATE: Concussion unrelated to prev injuries)
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Barrage
Member
Cena stabilizes. Bryan drops.
If noone will pay to see the guy win the title, he shouldn't be at the top of the card. Period.
Your complaint about the Summerslam 2013 number lacks pretty much all context. So making an absolute statement based on it, is pretty silly.
JesseEwiak
Member
If Bryan was a true draw, you wouldn't need context. You'd just see numbers go up, or at least stay stagnant, instead of dropping.
Your way of arguing is pretty exactly why context is always needed.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Triple H was right all along!
dream
Member
What's the context? That Daniel Bryan was billed as a B+ player? That they threatened to screw him out of the title? I'm not sure how that changes the fact that Daniel Bryan going for the belt did 186k domestic. You can make excuses for Daniel Bryan not moving the needle in metrics like, oh, television eyeballs and PPV buyrates, but the fundamental truth is that there is no money in the Daniel Bryan business.
JesseEwiak
Member
Well, there was money in going to smark cities and teasing them with the possibility of a Bryan win, then watch them rage out and attempt to attack wrestlers. I mean, didn't draw on PPV or anything, but it did sell out an arena.
Someone in this very thread said he could have been as over as Rock/Austin was and I just figured that was the general consensus around here.
If you're the "most over" guy in the company, you shouldnt be having significant ratings drops. Not to mention he doesn't exactly make them sell more or less PPVs. Putting Reigns in that top spot would have made zero difference in terms of drawing power (the focal point of having a legacy in sports entertainment) except seeing worse wrestling matches on TV. Sure he's a fan favorite, much like Rey Mysterio was, but that doesn't mean you should be the top guy in the company.
To give him the strap and have him being the main attraction of your dying company because 2000 or so fans like him, doesnt make much sense to me.
Like I said before, all he has is his YES chant (the very same fans who sing the Fandango song and do the wave. Should Fandango get the strap too?) and once thats gone, so is he. He was already give the opportunity of a lifetime despite my beliefs and he failed miserably. And he's injured AGAIN even with the IC strap. The dude can't even carry a mid card title while Cena for the sake of the company is playing second fiddle with the US title and elevating talent (somewhat)
bean breath
Member
Karma for taking part in WWE management's spiteful response to CM Punk leaving to seek proper medical attention last year.
So long you f*cking a**hole, I hope your undeserved Wrestlemania main event spot was worth it.
So long you f*cking a**hole, I hope your undeserved Wrestlemania main event spot was worth it.
MrPressStart
Member
They have enough talent... They should use him in other ways. He can stay relevant and heal.
Jmanunknown
Member
if the rumors about his current injury being the one that kept him sidelined it is not his neck that is giving him problems it is his elbow. His neck is apparently fine it is the lack of strength in his arm that is giving him problems specifically this
MrPressStart
Member
He popped with the "no" chants and the "I am the tag team champions" and even being called a goat. He rode that wave to popularity and then the "yes" chants and the knee got him the rest of the way.
The context for Summerslam 2013, in short is:
1. The buyrate everyone called disappointing was the preliminary one, the final one ended up at at slightly over 2011's
2. It was a drop from 2012's number, but 2012 was an anomaly as it got a big bump from Brock Lensar's second match back. 2011 and 2013 did the same number.
3. It was Bryan's first ever main event, two months earlier he was in the tag division. He had never been pushed as a main event guy before that PPV. The build for the match was shite too, Cena and Bryan didn't even interact until the last RAW.
No one claimed he was as over as Austin or Rock. But he was never given that spot even as an experiment, so how far he could have gotten, we'll never know. Even the WM 30 main event, that was because the audience revolted and Punk left, straight away after WM 30 Bryan dumped in Kane Kountry, portrayed like a geek, treading water until he was to be squashed by Lesnar at Summerslam 2014.
FallingEdge
Member
lol
lolol
lolololololol
yeah, definitely elevated all those guys
don't get me wrong, it is refreshing to see those matchups and not end in a 5 minute squash match but elevated they are not.
Surprisingly, Lesnar would be just as over and a draw as he is now even if he was in a feud with Kane. As long as he didn't kill him first.
Bryan riding the consistent stagnant PPV #s. Brock elevating it. Which is why Brock is in the top spot.
You didn't address any of the other points. Just like you used a July 2013 TV rating to somehow prove that 2014 Bryan was "bad for ratings".
Oh you mean his ratings decline in a 2015 RAW going into Fast Lane? No one said he was "bad for ratings". The ratings just happen to drop when he comes on or doesn't go anywhere. Which is you know kinda the most important thing to them? Especially the supposedly top guy in the company?
The Miz had the best ratings going into Mania just like Bryan did. Doesn't mean anything.
I look forward to his 30th stint as a comedy ridden tag team partner cause that's all he'll amount to thanks to him being so injury prone.
Hell, you even posted his Summerslam numbers and even said he didn't do any better than they normally do with anyone else in that position while you blame it on them not pushing him correctly before the PPV. Brock on the other hand, brings up the ratings. And he doesn't need a title to do it. He could literally come out on 4 episodes of RAW, not even wrestle and he'd still draw. A documentary on Brock's penis tattoo would draw more eyes than a Bryan main event. See the difference?
block tower
Member
dude is such a fucking whacko. him and his wife believe in the most bullshit snake oil treatments and products. he likely fucked himself over when he got hurt and wanted to try "alternative medicine" .
Total Divas is not real, friend.
Yes yes yes.
About that...
http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-.../41147-surprising-wwe-raw-ratings-for-2-09-15 This show featured the tease of a Sting appearance and an actual appearance by Brock Lesnar.
http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe-ra...4-tlc-fallout-show-viewership-lowest-all-year This show featured the return of Brock Lesnar from his absence since Night of Champions.
And I'm not trying to argue that Brock isn't over. Brock rules and he is MEGA over, at least by today's standards. And he was then, too. And he was when Bryan had his run, too. He even was during that GOD-AWFUL feud with HHH, miraculously. But even someone of that hype level is not immune from ratings going down. I'm pretty sure I can even fish out examples of this happening on some of The Rock's appearances over the past few years. The Batista bump lasted just for the day of his return and then went down to nothing.
I don't know if I can rightfully say that ratings are meaningless, but I sincerely do not believe that the data about them we have available as fans is an accurate way to measure any wrestler's overness, especially when pulling them from random single shows here and there.
mariachi507
Member
I made a comment stating that I believed Bryan could may have possibly been the next Austin/Rock. This somehow led to a ratings argument which doesn't make much sense to me since Bryan was no where near their level of drawing power. I only stated that if he could have kept his momentum last year and had the company behind him that he may have been well on his way. There is no way to prove this and it is only an opinion.
However, the comments made that Bryan was at best just a "good" wrestler and that he only had 2000 or so real fans while the rest of crowd only liked him for his chants is absolutely baffling to me. There is no way the past two Rumble got derailed by the crowds just so they could chant "yes" at the end of the match. The fans were absolutely behind the guy, it's a goddamn shame that his career might be cut short.
There are many "what if's" in this world, and my opinion on Bryan's potential is just another one in the pile.
did you know bryan is an anti vaxxer?
block tower
Member
so he only plays a mega douche on raw and divas? i just assumed that was him.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I don't give a fuck anymore about D.Bry being a business mover or not, but the revisionist history on this page suggesting he WASN'T a guy who spent two years having great flipping matches with everyone he squared off with is ridiculous. Rip Bryan all you want on his promos, but he was a GREAT wrestler before, during, and immediately after his ascension, period. As stro pointed out, you could legitimately make a case that he was WWE wrestler of the year for 2014 JUST on the strength of his work through Wrestlemania. Dude may not have been THE guy, but he was certainly A guy.
Edit: also, after Wrestlemania last year, Bryan was consistently the guy with the highest rated segments.
Also, that Summerslam also had Punk vs. Brock, "fight of the summer" between two confirmed over draws, so maybe it was just a fluke crummy PPV that Bryan happened to main event. Also, the final PPV number was a fair bit better than the initial low estimate.
Edit: also, after Wrestlemania last year, Bryan was consistently the guy with the highest rated segments.
Also, that Summerslam also had Punk vs. Brock, "fight of the summer" between two confirmed over draws, so maybe it was just a fluke crummy PPV that Bryan happened to main event. Also, the final PPV number was a fair bit better than the initial low estimate.
It's Vince's whole thing where he can't push guys who are more than a little bit smaller than himself, and by the time he does, he's lost the momentum they should have had. Jericho is an example of this- by the time they actually got the title on him it was too late.
Not pushing Bryan this year made complete sense, for both medical reasons, and because you needed to get the belt on Seth.
Not pushing Bryan this year made complete sense, for both medical reasons, and because you needed to get the belt on Seth.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
If we're going to talk business, I think it's probably fair to say that Bryan was never going to be as big as smarks hoped, but he probably could have been bigger than he's ended up being had he been able to capitalize on the good numbers he was doing coming out of Wrestlemania last year. Taking eight months off at the height of your popularity could fuck anybody up.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Has someone made a joke about UFC 200 being headlined by CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan yet?
Because if not, I look forward to seeing CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan on UFC 200 :lol.
Because if not, I look forward to seeing CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan on UFC 200 :lol.
PartTimeWarrior
Banned
Jeez
bean breath
Member
If Punk never walked, that Wrestlemania main event would've never happened.
PartTimeWarrior
Banned
Yeah but if you're a wrestler in the WWE and management says "hey we want you to maim event WM" you wouldn't turn it down
bean breath
Member
If the roles were reversed, Punk absolutely would've turned it down despite it being his lifelong dream, because he's a man of character and integrity. Not some hippie, reality tv star opportunist.
This isn't really true. I can remember a good while back, I went over WWE's financials. No idea why now, but probably because I like that kind of stuff, and get curious. My memory is sketchy, but I do remember things beginning to distinctly improve in their financials beginning 2005 (in comparison to 2003/2004 which took a nosedive of sorts), and that was due to a combination of things (licensing, live event revenue etc.). Live attendance also increased steadily, which is probably the greatest evidence that both Cena and Batista did draw well, since they were basically your two leading stars across two different brands, and from what I remember WWE was doing several live events with both brands. It was also pretty damning of Lesnar, who evidently, really wasn't doing well back then so I've no idea why I see this constant idea of him being such a big star back then, because he clearly wasn't. Although, that's not a surprise since he wasn't a face, and was around for all of two years.
I attributed most of that success to business strategy from what I remember because there's elements involved you simply can't attribute to superstars, but if anything, I'd say both Cena and Batista are probably the last two real successful stars WWE had. They were main eventers who did what your top faces should do ultimately, which is increase attendance, and generate more revenue on your live events etc.
Having said that, WWE is a brand in itself, and I think this way of thinking that folks tend to have about one superstar or two superstars being your main draws is primitive. It doesn't really fit with the way things work now. I think Cena's effectiveness, for example, probably wore out back in 2008 or something since he couldn't really go higher. I also think he could leave tomorrow, and it wouldn't affect WWE too much. You can always build someone to take that place, although they may not match his merchandise sales (which are a very small piece of the pie at the end of the day). The board is simply different now thanks to a lack of competition, and the the different kind of strategy they seem to employ.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Literally no one on the active roster is a draw because wrestling has been in a decline or held even since 2000. Bryan is failing just as everyone is failing.
TriangleOfCorruption
Member
kind of a bummer that this thread has devolved into talk of buyrates and whether he's a draw.
This dude is straight up one of the best wrestlers of the last 20 years, and maybe one of the best American workers ever. It would be a huge bummer if couldn't go anymore, but fuck me what a record of great matches he'd leave behind.
though it would be a shame if we never got dbry vs seth for the title
or matches with any of the nxt 5 (i want my kenta rematch ;_
This dude is straight up one of the best wrestlers of the last 20 years, and maybe one of the best American workers ever. It would be a huge bummer if couldn't go anymore, but fuck me what a record of great matches he'd leave behind.
though it would be a shame if we never got dbry vs seth for the title
or matches with any of the nxt 5 (i want my kenta rematch ;_
I think it's great Bryan's health is being discussed. Not in the sense that people are giving advice on something so ill-defined, but rather that there's an awareness of what wrestling does to a person. It used to be wrestlers would wrestle until they broke down, and then 10 years after that, they retired.
Wrestlers like Edge and Punk got out before things became catastrophic. Stone Cold managed to avoid the worst effects of his repeated injuries. Other guys like Christian, that NXT announcer whose name escapes me, and Chris Nowitski quit before the sport killed them.
I'd hope it's not so, but Bryan may need to step away. If that's the case, I hope the WWE keeps him around as a GM or trainer or something.
I'd hope it's not the case, but Bryan may need to get out.
PartTimeWarrior
Banned
Lol no he wouldn't
It would have, though. Punk walking caused the Bryan/HHH match, not the Bryan/Orton/Batista match.
SpideySenses
Member
Ithil killing it in this thread.
I always felt like Brock/Punk was the big match going into that SummerSlam, yet after his UFC numbers, WWE will never pin blame on Brock because it reflects badly on them.
I always felt like Brock/Punk was the big match going into that SummerSlam, yet after his UFC numbers, WWE will never pin blame on Brock because it reflects badly on them.
Boy Wander
Member
Yeah, his total burial of Ryback showed a ton of class....
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
I feel like if 12 years ago they could've continued to push the business but who saw Benoit and Guerrero dying, Goldberg, Rock, Austin, Michaels and Angle all leaving due to injury or various reasons. Brock saying fuck it, CM Punk barely hanging on for years, Batista saying fuck it, and John Cena becoming a marine.....
So much happened in that 4 - 6 year period and its not like any of those guys besides Michaels , Flair...I can't even think of another fan fav that got to have a big final match and kinda end their characters story. There were a lot of abrupt welp this is it cya type of exits.
For like a short time it looked like WWE would have Brock as the guy, Batista, Cena, as the other two challengers to the top, guys like Jericho, Angle, Guerrero etc etc to be that next tier and a bunch of other guys clawing to get up to the top. but almost all of those guys either left , retired, got fired...it was crazy how depleted everything became so quickly.
He also threw the entire fucking industry under a bus to boost his MMA cred.
http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/2015...nd-being-unafraid-to-get-punched-in-the-face/
RandyBobandy
Banned
He did all that he can. As long as Cena doesn't get injured we are fine
Yeah, this all sounds about right.
Maybe a good way to look at this stuff is this: If Superstar X went to a promotion other than WWE, would they be able to balance the scales out? Hell no, whoever you name. The fucking Rock could start showing up on TNA (even if they were still on Spike) or ROH or whoever and they still wouldn't come close to reaching WWE because the gulf in promotional skill, capital and existing brand awareness is just so huge. Look how many times a popular guy went to TNA and then all the casual and lapsed fans thought the dude had retired until he showed back up in TV/movies or in WWE. There's a reason WWE could get away with pretending that Sting did absolutely nothing for the past 14 years or so.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Cena's always the king. A flabby Punk getting tossed around by Brock Lesnar was fine, but Cena vs Bryan was a much bigger deal.
FallingEdge
Member
WWE wrestling you mean.
To most people out there, WWE is wrestling, and that won't change anytime soon.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I definitely see where Brock vs Punk could be a bigger deal. Punk and Brock both have gigantic crossover appeal, something that's completely absent in Bryan. He's the king of scrubs, so to speak - the tallest man in midget town. WWE fans love him, but that's pretty much the cutoff. He's not getting movie deals, he's not appearing in TV. Says a lot.
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