SneakyStephan
Banned
Same here, I don't get the obsession with symbols. Who cares
Flag Desecration at Georgia school. Veteran arrested while trying to stop it.
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Same here, I don't get the obsession with symbols. Who cares
DontBeThatGuy
Member
The US invades other countries, taking away their freedoms, We aren't actually getting anything good out of the deal.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
The lady stole something and wasn't gunned down. Privilege or progress... I'll withhold judgment until all the evidence is presented. That video doesn't tell the whole story.
MWS Natural
Member
A good read if you really care to know the part the US government has played in the opression of black people in America.
Not only did she not took an oath to protect the flag, she took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States", a constitution that guarantees (and it has been held repeatedly by the supreme court) that the desecration of the American flag is a protected speech that cannot be prohibited by the US government.
I understand why she might have been upset by that protest, but she was in violation of her oath, not acting in accordance to it.
They're all good apples when dealing with Suzy Homemaker. Had it been one of people she stole from I'm pretty sure that person resisting arrest wouldn't have been as unscathed.
We're on top of the food chain so course we are going to be blinded by our own self-righteousness.
People try to synergistically link acts like this with the first amendment but I don't see how being in protest of acts like represents a protest of the first amendment.
You can fully support the right of someone to be able to use the full extent of free speech and still disapprove of someone saying something untasteful. You can fully support the right of someone to be able to do any act but still disapprove when they do something untasteful.
You can fully support the right of someone to be able to use the full extent of free speech and still disapprove of someone saying something untasteful. You can fully support the right of someone to be able to do any act but still disapprove when they do something untasteful.
There's a difference between shaking your head and theft.
……forgetit
Member
When she broke the law to stop the protest she stepped over the line.
The argument stems from the military veteran more than anything. Claiming that it was her duty to take the flag, and certain people in this thread saying they didn't (or wouldn't) serve only to come back to the desecration of the flag.
The problem is not finding it distasteful, but in supporting the veteran, one supports thievery and suppression of the first amendment.
Lol that's such a hilarious concept. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE FLAGS?!
Well there seem to also be people in the thread arguing against someone's acceptance of the first amendment if they do anything but applaud this group's behavior.
……forgetit
Member
Show me a post like that.
Not really, no. If anything, a surprising amount of people needed it to be pointed out to them that theft is illegal.
See here is the disconnect. It's not even clear what they were protesting, there is some speculation but nothing concrete, so how can someone approve or disapprove of the message? I find the Westboro Baptists Church's views abhorrent but if someone was trying to stop them from protesting or using a certain symbol I would feel the same. You do not have to agree with the message to defend their right to make it.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
She wasn't charged so essentially this is what happened
SillyEskimo
Member
I can't help but have empathy for anyone who is willing to go to jail while non violently protesting something.
I don't hold anything in that high regard, so it's always interesting to see such passion.
I don't hold anything in that high regard, so it's always interesting to see such passion.
She could have counter protested them, criticized them online or in the paper, or debated them. The key part was taking their flag, which is stealing their property and attempting to stop their speech entirely.
This group isn't free from being criticized or critiqued, but you can't prevent or stop their speech.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I think the mentality is that if we didn't have an army to protect us, someone would invade, take over, and take our freedoms away from us.
Apparently I missed those posts. Care to show me which ones were saying that?
I've wondered this since elementary school.
BobTheFork
Member
My old man is a Vietnam vet and he calls people who oppose flag desecration "Plastic Patriots"
People willing to fight for the flag but not intelligent enough to know what the flag stands for.
People willing to fight for the flag but not intelligent enough to know what the flag stands for.
RastaMentality
Banned
That's why I never understood teachers saying "soldiers fight for your freedom so that's why I'm going to force all of my students in my class to stand during the pledge".
……forgetit
Member
The police or the protestors?
Feel free to worship disturbed thieves, I guess.
Well regardless of the overarching reason for committing the act, walking on an American flag is very much apart of their message. Not even mentioning how ineffective a message that is.
I'm not just restricting my remarks toward this one instance. It seems to be a trend in this kind of situation.
Honestly I would love for you to expand on why taking their flag "stopped their speech entirely"..
The Supreme Court has declared that flag burning and desecration is protected speech.
She as a member of the armed forces (which is government) stopping their protest by stealing it (which is theft of property) is violating the protesters First amendment rights.
Ineffective to who? You?
IF, and again I don't know what the group is representing so I can only go on hearsay, this was about treatment of minorities in this country what symbolism would be appropriate? Maybe they should take public polls and find out how many people's feelings will be hurt before they do anything. In any event we don't know what they're protesting exactly so for you to say people are being piled on as being anti-first amendment if they don't agree with the group is nonsense.
Also effectivness of protest is not a requirement for First Amendment protection anyway.
Nor should it ever be.
No definitely not.
It's just the act of walking on a piece of cloth really tells us nothing about their cause in and of itself. There are a few who are acting like this lady is a martyr, when we don't know what she martyred herself against. If they are protesting against treatment of minorities then all she did was stick up for some fabric.
They could have been protesting poptarts for all I care, but the notion they don't have the right to or need to be stopped is probably the most un-American thing I can think of.
As a vet, my oath was to defend that behavior, not stop it.
The day we feel the need to ban any and all desecration of our flag is the day a piece of America dies and it's a giant "fuck you" to those who took an oath to support and defend the constitution of the United States.
She shouldn't be charged with anything (and she isn't) but she should be ashamed.
As a vet, my oath was to defend that behavior, not stop it.
The day we feel the need to ban any and all desecration of our flag is the day a piece of America dies and it's a giant "fuck you" to those who took an oath to support and defend the constitution of the United States.
She shouldn't be charged with anything (and she isn't) but she should be ashamed.
IDKAboutThat
Member
This flag shit is baffling to me. It's like people saying the pledge of allegiance in their house. Like, how deluded about the greatness of America can you get that you think it's above criticism?
EDIT: I'm American
EDIT: I'm American
Because you're taking away their speech, literally, by taking the thing they 1) own and 2) the medium are using to communicate their idea.
You can't take a Westboro church member's sign from them. You can't take a Greenpeace member's guitar away from them. You can't take a Black Panther's car to keep them from getting to a rally and you can't jam a Republican radio station to keep people from listening to it.
A lot of people seem to forget that you can't say "free speech" but then ignore the fact that you actually have to allow speech you do not like in the public space. The flag isn't a holy object (which is why I prefer to say "destroy a flag", not "desecrate") nor a metaphor for a human body. It represents the US government, quite literally, with all of the symbols on it standing for 63 government bodies.
You can even be super patriotic and burn a flag! You can say the government is letting everyone down and demonstrate they are burning the country down by burning the flag. There's a whole host of reasons you can burn a flag and they all make sense. Even Penn and Teller have a patriotic skit centered around burning a flag.
The only time you shouldn't be allowed to burn or stomp a US flag is if it isn't your flag that you own. Because at that point you're forcing the owner of that flag's speech to something they don't want to say.
Wow, if she was really smart she would've given the flag to the cops and they probably would have stopped the act.
Instead she had to be delusional and not give the flag to the cops and got arrested. That's pretty stupid imo, worshipping an inanimate object to get yourself arrested.
Ah my state...
Instead she had to be delusional and not give the flag to the cops and got arrested. That's pretty stupid imo, worshipping an inanimate object to get yourself arrested.
Ah my state...
Again, they are allowed to do what they want with the flag.
The Supreme Court has already ruled on this.
Oh no don't get me wrong, I am aware of that and totally behind what the club was doing. I'm just saying she wasn't being tactful and because of that she got arrested.
Really? I'm not because I'm not sure what they were protesting. It's not clear.
I definitely support their right to do it 100% though.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
This is the most insane thing I've read in this thread. I honestly cannot believe someone could possibly be so ignorant of current events and a topic that has had so much attention both on here and in the news.
Slavery ended 150 years ago, but racism was buckled down on by the defeated Southerners to justify their actions of secession. 50 years ago is when the government decided that racist shenanigans had gone on for too long at a national level. As in, the government, national, state or local, could no longer be a vehicle for racism.
That in no way shape or form means that the people themselves stopped being racist, as the government != the people.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Paris Hilton's great grandfather died years ago...why is she still rich today?
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