As a kids movie it's watchable, sure. But were you really convinced by Anakin's turn to the dark side? In the space of 5 minutes he goes from defending an unarmed Palpatine because 'it's not the Jedi way' to slicing up a roomful of children. It just didn't work and the movie collapses because of that. Anakin just seems like a psycho rather than a tragic hero. Why would anyone want him to be redeemed? He deserved to burn to death as Obi-Wan intended.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Official Teaser Trailer #2
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As a kids movie it's watchable, sure. But were you really convinced by Anakin's turn to the dark side? In the space of 5 minutes he goes from defending an unarmed Palpatine because 'it's not the Jedi way' to slicing up a roomful of children. It just didn't work and the movie collapses because of that. Anakin just seems like a psycho rather than a tragic hero. Why would anyone want him to be redeemed? He deserved to burn to death as Obi-Wan intended.
serenewarfare
Banned
I buy it enough. It's not a perfect transition by any means or even a great one, but it's not the most unbelievable thing in the world.
I guess that's what I mean about people tolerating the prequels to differing levels. To you it's adequate but obviously not perfect. To me it had to be perfect for the saga not to be tarnished.
megashock5
Member
So say we all.
There is merit to both endings, but Jedi Rocks is the single most egregious change to the OT, imo. Just awful. If you're going to insert CG characters, at least have them adhere to the same world of physics as the human characters instead of Tom & Jerry level facial distortions.
I like some things about the new celebration, but I still want the ability to re-visit Yub Nub. Also, I actually like most of the changes to Empire, but I still want to be able to see the original cut.
All I'm asking for is what Speilberg did with ET and Close Encounters - give us both and let us decide which to watch.
Aeriscloud
Banned
But he killed a whole group of people in episode 2. So maybe?
It's not like he keeps quiet about it, he breaks down about it to Padme. Then again maybe if he had said nothing about it to anyone, that would have been much darker, I don't know.
serenewarfare
Banned
I don't think anything is as simple as being perfect or terrible. There are acceptable ranges in-between.
Sure but they were vicious savages who murdered his mother. That moment was at least earned within the context of the story, plus he was guilty about it. Heck he was guilty about chopping Dooku's head off.
Why couldn't Anakin have helped the children to escape only for them to be gunned down by clones? Then at least we would see that he is still trying to balance his need to save Padme/join Palpatine with his conscience. There was just no need for him to murder them in cold blood, it took his character beyond what was appropriate.
I think when the whole franchise has been building to that moment for 30 years, the moment when Darth Vader is born, you need to get much closer to perfect than Lucas did.
It's depressing there are people here who have never heard Yub Nub - not because that song is any good (it isn't) but because it means there are people here who've never seen the originals. George really buried them deepI was on the cusp fortunately - my dad had the original VHS versions and those are the ones I watched growing up. Had he not shown us those, the first time I would have seen SW would have almost definitely been the Special Editions in '97. I shudder to think how many people haven't seen Sebastian Shaw as a ghost.
Yub Nub is such a lame track. Yes, Return of the Jedi isn't the strongest (or most serious) film but the saga deserves an emotional, cathartic close. Hell - the Luke climax is enough to warrant something more powerful than Yub Nub. As has been said, sure, we get the Pyre scene, but it needs that final jolt of energy to get the spine tingling and the tears rolling. These characters have been through a lot and seen a lot of shit at this point.
Victory Celebration is such a beautiful track. I don't even mind the celebration montage around the galaxy (sans shitty, out of place CG). It drives home the idea that their actions had significant effects on the galaxy. I can't really wrap my head around it now, but I imagine that with only the three films in their original state, the audience really wouldn't feel the significance of the destruction of the Death Star and the death of the Emperor when the movie only ever focuses on the small group of rebels celebrating. The montage solidifies the greater, significant good they've achieved.
Oh and to "I can't imagine the characters dancing to Victory Celebration like I can with Yub Nub" - Victory Celebration is non-diagetic music. It captures that tribal, raw sound of the Ewoks, but I don't think they're actually meant to be dancing to it. They're dancing to their own tune (probably something lame like Yub Nub).
Besides this, effectively all the other changes are pretty rubbish. Some I really don't mind - they're not super intrusive but are generally unwarranted. I could actually put up with all of them. HaydenGhost is a really daft moment that comes close to being a dealbreaker. The "No. Nooo" is an actual dealbreaker and is the sole reason I don't own the Blu-Rays. Arguably the single most powerful moment in the entire series - the culmination of both Skywalker characters (regardless of the PT), the climax of the trilogy and brilliantly effective in its raw emotion and simplicity - crisp, character-defining single action, and George takes a big, hammy, soppy, raggedy shit all over it.
I really don't mind Yub-Nub and the Victory Celebration. They both sound OK to me. I have the original (yes ORIGINAL) VHS tapes where Yub-Nub is still the "end-music". After it got replaced it didn't really bother me.
The changes that made my left and right testicle explode was the "NoooOoOOOOoo!" by Vader and the Hayden Christensen as a Ghost. I mean ... why? Sure, Anakin "died" once he turned into Vader. But redeeming yourself from Dark to the Light side again doesn't turn you young again. I hated the explanation they gave us. Might as well throw in Ewan McGregor and all other Force-Ghosts. Why? Cause George Lucas reasons. Wouldn't Luke go like : "Who the fuck are YOU!?" They should've kept Shaw. There was NO need to insert Hayden at all.
The man took a huge crap on his own movies by adding stuff that wasn't needed. Lets add "Sebulba" to Jabba's Palace. Let's add a Gungan at the end of ROTJ because they were so well received. Lets add a crap CGI Jabba in A New Hope. WHAT!? The latter got "fixed" again and will apparently be fixed again in the 4K restoration.
NO!
They should've added stuff that mattered. Clean up all frames. Maybe add some stuff to make all the OT battles more "alive". Now the CGI stands out like a sore thumb.
I do, however, have good hope in Disney this time around.
I've hear Yub Nub, and find it pretty unimpressive. The Victory Celebration song if much more fitting as a "cap-off" to the OT imo, and just better in general. If Lucas have gone and added dumb changes like Hayden-Ghost and the "celebrations" on other worlds, then I'd have found it much better. Just use the song, but keep is during the Endor celebration (no more).
Exactly. Should've ended on Endor. No need to show others celebrating.
Actually, now that I think of it. That whole celebration scene has become redunant after that latetst Force Awakens Teaser.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Yub Nub still fits better with the scene to me.
This is the trailer for Avengers. You wouldn't do a full trailer covering actual plot till September-ish.
Yub Nub is very much not canon.
The theatrical cuts have been confirmed by the Lucasfilm story group to be non-canonical. Although you said cannon so there might be an actual cannon named Yub Nub I suppose.
Yub Nub is very much not canon.
Although you said cannon so there might be an actual cannon named Yub Nub I suppose.
Radio drama is cannon. Or canon. I prefer the former, as does my phone.
Yub Nub is there.
Radio Drama itself as it is not canon, it used to be pre-April 2014 but that is no longer the case. All all of the film adaptions are only canon in which they lineup with what is in the current editions of the films. Anything that doesn't match what is on screen in the adaptions is not canon.
They discussed that exact point in the canon panel this past weekend. Someone asked them about clarification about the various film adaptions whether they were canon and the answer is only the material that matches what is on screen in the current editions of the films. All the extra material in the radio drama is non-canonical, it is legends like the old EU.
The stuff in the radio dramas that is not on screen in the Bluray/Digital versions of the film such as Yub Nub, Mara Jade in ROTJ, etc is non-canonical per the Lucasfilm story group. Same applies to the novelizations.
Yeah, but that is like their opinion.
You may wish that but that is not the case.
The Lucasfilm Story Group is in charge of the official canon, and have a lot of power. As we found out in the Rogue One panel they are involved every single step of the way.And one of the people who leads the Lucasfilm story group has mocked people online for preferring the theatrical cuts not too long ago!
Your Spider-Man 2 poster is no longer canon, old friend. Just hang it up.
multi billion dollar business
You were the one who brought up canon, not me
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Liam Neeson's moment to moment performance was fine in my opinion, it's just that his character was underdeveloped, and it didn't feel like he bothered to fill in the gaps when he was preparing for the roll, unlike Alec Guinness.
Also I can't really fault Christopher Lee either, as I feel he suffered from the same problems as Liam Neeson did, but to a greater extent. I think in both cases the actors probably weren't given enough context and backstory to work with when they were developing their characters.
this is all true.
Yeah it's an awful track. New music is much better.
gutter_trash
Banned
the new music sounds non John Williams and sounds non Star Wars in the new CG celebrations plus they show Prequal planets in them = ugh no thanks
I still can't believe there are people paid actual salaries to make arbitrary decisions like these.
Nothing better than mocking your fans!You may wish that but that is not the case.
And one of the people who leads the Lucasfilm story group has mocked people online for preferring the theatrical cuts not too long ago!
It is a John Williams track.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
"The theatrical releases are not canon" is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, I don't care what authority the person saying it has. God Emperor Obama could knock on my door and tell me so, and I would laugh in his face and tell him to get fucking real.
I doubt Alec Guiness did much prep for his role considering he thought the role was beneath him originally. Maybe in the sequels he did.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I don't know if this is true, but I remember reading once that many of the actors in the PT barely got a chance to see the entire script for the film, let alone drafts of the remaining films, during production. I figured since Star Wars wasn't famous yet, Alec Guinness may have been given more material to work with.
edit: also, he was nominated for an Oscar for episode 4, and a golden globe. Even great actors don't put on a performance on that level by slacking off..
With the yearly movies, the tv shows, as well as expanded media like comics it is absolutely necessary for a group of people to maintain a canon for the universe and make sure all future projects chronologically lineup with eachother and do not contradict one another. It'd be a complete mess otherwise.
One of the main appeals of Star Wars is it is a "living" actual universe within all the media, not just a handful of fun movies. Lucasfilm clearly gets that.
They also weren't given very strong direction by Lucas, who admits himself he's not great at imparting what he wants from an actor to them.
Squall5042
Member
I actually prefer the Victory Celebration music from the special edition ROTJ over Yub Nub, I think it's a more appropriate send off after an amazing journey.
BattleMonkey
Member
So much crap in the updates, but whatever, damage is done... only thing I would want to see removed is the vader "noooo" when he tosses Palpy down the core in ROTJ. That completely ruined such a great scene.
Yeah the rest are annoying but that is offensive in its stupidity.
gutter_trash
Banned
I see Naboo in there, it should not existed in the original trilogy
Pretty much, that one was just a giant fuck you to all the prequel critics. Almost like a threat to stop it or he could do even worse.
Why? Naboo is a very important aspect of the Empire. It is the Emperor's home planet after all. And in the Leia comic series we have Leia visiting Naboo post-A New Hope. It's a pretty vital planet in the era of the Empire.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Lucas added it out of spite. It's the only reason that makes sense.
Agreed!
Agree with this too. Great send off, all those that watched it with me loved it too.
Oh Ewan how I love you. You and Ian McDiarmid were like small beacons of light in the crapfest that was those movies. You're ability to (mostly) sell such subpar material is truly worthy of admiration, as is you're impressive "young Alec Guinness" impression. Hopefully they bring you back in the ST for some Force Ghost scenes.
Chezzymann
Member
Yeah, if any actor was to return from the prequels, he'd be the first I'd want.
all of our reactions are summed up in Francis reaction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0pTt2K2R3Y
I understand what they do, I'm just saying I think it's funny that Lucasfilm sees this as such a necessary expense.
gutter_trash
Banned
If i never heard about it in original trilogy = it does not exist.
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