Devil May Cry 4 SE: Vergil, Trish & Lady Playable, Release Date 18th of June

direct_quote said:
So would anyone be opposed to DMC5 AI being like NG AI (aka more aggressive). I'm not talking explosive shuriken spamming, but more or less far more aggressive.. As much as I love NG games I would like an action game with controls like DMC (and move inputs) + that NG difficulty.. I think NG feels to too static sometimes control wise?
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Play Bayonetta on Infinite Climax?
 
direct_quote said:
So would anyone be opposed to DMC5 AI being like NG AI (aka more aggressive). I'm not talking explosive shuriken spamming, but more or less far more aggressive.. As much as I love NG games I would like an action game with controls like DMC (and move inputs) + that NG difficulty.. I think NG feels to too static sometimes control wise?
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Projectile spamming aside, the aggressiveness of Ninja Gaiden's enemies has a much different focus that trying to carry that over to DMC I doubt would translate well. Especially if we're going by the mobs that Ninja Gaiden II throws at you, but even then there's already Legendary Dark Knight mode.

Not too sure exactly what you mean by "static" with regards to controls. It controls well and is very smooth, but that's because that game's design facilitates it. Much like the design in DMC facilitates its controls already.
 
ArclightBorealis said:
Projectile spamming aside, the aggressiveness of Ninja Gaiden's enemies has a much different focus that trying to carry that over to DMC I doubt would translate well. Especially if we're going by the mobs that Ninja Gaiden II throws at you, but even then there's already Legendary Dark Knight mode.

Not too sure exactly what you mean by "static" with regards to controls. It controls well and is very smooth, but that's because that game's design facilitates it. Much like the design in DMC facilitates its controls already.
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I guess static isn't the right term, but less combo freedom I should say and more dial a combos... Also I felt without lock-on I had to jump around half the time, when if you had lock-on you could choose your dodge position relative to an enemy better.
 
Not NG aggressive but a lot more aggressive than it currently is.

As long as they buff up the defensive/evasive options. Stuff like chainable dashes/table hopper/teleports should be easy to execute in neutral and you shouldn't have to lock on/change styles for it.


The current DMC AI is balanced around a bigger focus on combos and more limited defensive options.

Like right now Bloodborne has an easier/better basic evasion system than DMC yet has more aggressive enemies than DMC. And it also features lock on so clearly that is not an issue.
 
NG AI is a bit too much, but enemies, all of them, need to be faster and more aggressive, especially the basic mobs.

While the AI is balanced around the combo system, the AI doesn't really scale all that well on the higher difficulties. Another problem is the most elite enemies of all three recent games (Abyss, Hell Vanguard, Blitz, Dreamrunner) have highly predictable movement patterns, due to their teleporting which have lengthy animations and thus are extremely well telegraphed. Games like Bayo and NG mostly don't have that as even the most elite enemies have quick attacks and they don't maneuver by teleporting. Other elite enemies like Witch, Tyrant and Faust are instead very passive in terms of movement.

Furthermore all enemy types should have more defensive options like blocking, parrying, counter-attacking and dodging. Combos don't really feel earned because opening most of the enemies up for a combo is extremely easy. However, DmC DE's approach with enemies on GMD having to be parried is not an ideal solution. They should also experiment with the enemies by having them react differently to being attacked. Take DMC1, for example. Plasmas multiplied when attacked, and Nobodies and the two Deaths transformed or went into rage states. They'd need to balance this and the other defensive options mentioned above, though.
 
direct_quote said:
I guess static isn't the right term, but less combo freedom I should say and more dial a combos... Also I felt without lock-on I had to jump around half the time, when if you had lock-on you could choose your dodge position relative to an enemy better.
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Combos just aren't the focus (nor is weapon-switching or cuh-rayzee in general.) It's a score attack game and long combos are actually a hindrance when you want to hit the fight time bonus. It's more about knowing when to apply the combos each weapon has. Lock-on would fuck up NG's controls severely. It auto-targets the nearest offensive enemy, with some leniency for manual aim. You do have to jump around, use headstomp, rolls, etc. for positioning, that's intended. Movement, spacing, and positioning are the most important thing in NGB. They give you a lot of options for this, part of learning the game is learning how/when to apply them.


I would love DMC to have aggressive enemies built around the combat system, but I don't think that could be added post-hoc to 4. It would need to be built from the ground up. Or just more mini-boss type characters where it's one-on-one, like the lightning guys.
 
I'm sure this has been asked, but how in the wolrd is Vergil playable?

He's dead. The only thing left of him is Nero's arm.
 
DMC needs some enemies like Bayonetta's Gracious and Glorious.

I'll never forget fighting a bunch of those things on the highway on infinite climax. I was in pure zen mode to keep up with that onslaught.
 
As for the enemies, I'm still an advocate of a telegraphed "burst" mechanic for some enemies almost like Nero's DT, which would force the player to burst bait like in fighting games. I think they could definitely stand to be more offensive, but I also think they tend to lack defensive options, and once you get that first hit in, they're pretty much done. I also recognize that a mechanic like this could also be done pretty poorly, but I think it could be properly implemented.

More hunters or humanoid enemies that have almost mini-Dante-esque abilities would be nice.


krizzx said:
I'm sure this has been asked, but how in the wolrd is Vergil playable?

He's dead. The only thing left of him is Nero's arm.
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His gameplay isn't canon. He's just going through the same campaign and Nero/Dante with his DMC3 loadout.

As for the cutscenes, they take place (the intro at least) prior to the events of DMC3.
 
Dahbomb said:
There's already a burst mechanic in DMC4... they are called Chimera's.

And they are annoying as hell.
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I said telegraphed and done well. Not an ambiguous hitbox that lasts for a while. Also, on certain enemies and done rarely during long combos. The Chimera attack really isn't a burst the way I'm imagining it. Basically, something not unlike a Vergil parry in DMC3, where there's a specific animation or stumble that shows when to change attack methods.

But I agree. Chimera are annoying. I think that should be avoided.
 
GuardianE said:
I said telegraphed and done well. Not an ambiguous hitbox that lasts for a while. Also, on certain enemies and done rarely during long combos. The Chimera attack really isn't a burst the way I'm imagining it. Basically, something not unlike a Vergil parry in DMC3, where there's a specific animation or stumble that shows when to change attack methods.

But I agree. Chimera are annoying. I think that should be avoided.
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While I hated the actual implementation of the infested enemies, the concept behind giving basic enemies a telegraphed tool to force a different strategy is worthwhile. If enemies had a greater variety of defensive mechanics - dodges, parries and bursts in addition to basic guards and shields - it'd require a change of approach, but not arbitrarily restrict the player to the degree of DmC's colour coded enemies or DMC4's chimera.

The Silver said:
DMC needs some enemies like Bayonetta's Gracious and Glorious.

I'll never forget fighting a bunch of those things on the highway on infinite climax. I was in pure zen mode to keep up with that onslaught.
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An exact copy of Gracious and Glorious wouldn't quite fit the rhythm of DMC combat; but similarly fast, unpredictable and aggressive enemies would be nice to see in the next game - Blitzes were one of the better DMC4 enemies, but they still didn't force you to be anywhere near as reactive as Gracious and Glorious - or to a lesser extent, Bayonetta 2's Sloth when playing as Jeanne.

Would it work if the enemies in question were basically glorified palette swaps, as with G&G themselves; as well as DMC1's Deaths and Fetishes? It might be a good idea if the player was given a chance to familiarise themselves with the regular variety of the (dynamic, but not particularly difficult) enemy before being presented with a genuinely challenging variant - as long as the modifications made were more involved than just reducing hitstun and increasing health; or in the worst-case scenario, retreading the Chimeras.
 
Cross-posting this I guess because I don't know if everyone saw it, but would we DMC-GAF want to organize some kind of GAF style tournament when DMC4:SE launches? Maybe?
 
Back in the DMC3 days I would've been confident enough to put out a combo video.

After all these years of not playing DMC4 I'm probably scrub level, I lost my smile friends.
 
You have to shuriken-cancel in NG to break out of the "dial-a-combo". That's when you can style too. However the game is build around quick and clean kills. And iframes.
 
Muchi Muchi Pink said:
You have to shuriken-cancel in NG to break out of the "dial-a-combo". That's when you can style too. However the game is build around quick and clean kills. And iframes.
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NG combo videos are pretty sad. Combo vids in that game just look like inefficient and disjointed gameplay lol

side rant: the term dial-a-combo is weird. i think it's something dmc fans came up with when the game first came out...older fans were strangely obnoxious about ninja gaiden's existence. It isn't mortal kombat 3 though, there's plenty of variation going on even if it isn't weapon switching and all kinds of other stuff that would be out of place in the game.
 
fantastic_planet said:
NG combo videos are pretty sad. Combo vids in that game just look like inefficient and disjointed gameplay lol

side rant: the term dial-a-combo is weird. i think it's something dmc fans came up with when the game first came out...older fans were strangely obnoxious about ninja gaiden's existence. It isn't mortal kombat 3 though, there's plenty of variation going on even if it isn't weapon switching and all kinds of other stuff that would be out of place in the game.
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Pretty sure it's a fighting game term.
 
BadWolf said:
Pretty sure it's a fighting game term.
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usually called a chain, unless it's referencing mortal kombat 3 where you are totally stuck to the game's preset commands + timing, where it's clunky design.

but like i said, i saw it used as a knock against NG when it first came out.
 
fantastic_planet said:
usually called a chain, unless it's referencing mortal kombat 3 where you are totally stuck to the game's preset commands + timing, where it's clunky design.

but like i said, i saw it used as a knock against NG when it first came out.
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Dial-a-combo is absolutely a fighting game term for MK and some 3D fighters. It's not really meant to be derogatory. It just means having preset combos for certain button sequences. MKX has dial-a-combo as well.
 
BadWolf said:
Yup, it's just a style of combos. Some like it and some don't.
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It's basically Team Ninja using their own fighting game and VF's style of combos as the basis for Ninja Gaiden, much like how DMC's combat takes cues from Capcom's own fighters with mixing together separate moves into a combo. And considering I love the hell out of VF over any other fighter, I always ended up gravitating towards NG's and Bayonetta's combo tree as a result.
 
GuardianE said:
Dial-a-combo is absolutely a fighting game term for MK and some 3D fighters. It's not really meant to be derogatory. It just means having preset combos for certain button sequences. MKX has dial-a-combo as well.
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BadWolf said:
Yup, it's just a style of combos. Some like it and some don't.
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fair enough, i guess i was exposed to seeing it more as a criticism than just terminology, but I see what you guys are saying.
 
Dial a combo has been around way before DMC. It originated with MK3 where you literally dialed in a combo.

It's not a criticism is just a description of combo mechanics.
 
I just got back into Devil May Cry recently and found out about an announcement for this game just a day after it was posted (perfect timing). I really hope Vergil has an unlockable Nelo Angelo devil trigger like in DMC3:SE.
 
Hey guys, kind of random but one of my combo videos (my most invested one) is now bumped to 60fps! So it can finally be viewed as it always should have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q8buprGu-4

This is great news for DMC4SE. Can't wait to push some 60fps action on UT.

EDIT:
Haha Dahbomb, wonder if you remember these dead zone hitbox gifs from way back? lol
http://i.imgur.com/dg6pF.gif
http://i.imgur.com/KAKCM.gif
http://i.imgur.com/IGyda.gif

Found them in the google doc. Totally forgot about them.

EDIT2:
Just a stupid training video but also got some DMC4 60fps. Nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyO7mPjgGA8
 
Is there a more general Devil May Cry thread, or is this the only one? I wanted to ask if DMC1's Dante Must Die is much harder than DMC3's (which would be really bad considering I resorted to using Super Dante for DMC3's Dante Must Die).
 
SpiralZilla said:
Is there a more general Devil May Cry thread, or is this the only one? I wanted to ask if DMC1's Dante Must Die is much harder than DMC3's (which would be really bad considering I resorted to using Super Dante for DMC3's Dante Must Die).
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Personally, I feel that the original DMC game is the hardest game of the series. Even though vanilla DMC3 was extremely difficult (moreso for the U.S. version), there's no backtracking in the original game, and you can easily get stuck if you're low on health and orbs/items.
 
SpiralZilla said:
Is there a more general Devil May Cry thread, or is this the only one? I wanted to ask if DMC1's Dante Must Die is much harder than DMC3's (which would be really bad considering I resorted to using Super Dante for DMC3's Dante Must Die).
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This is basically the DMC community thread for now unless a separate thread is made down the line.

DMC1 is hard, but it's a different kind of hard than DMC3. DMC1 DMD modifies certain move utility, and tactics that worked on lower difficulties won't work on DMD. I wouldn't say it's much harder than DMC3, though.
 
Not so sure I'm excited for this all that much right now. I've already played the crap out of 4 on both the 360 and PC and, even though some of these additions are pretty cool, it's still one of those games I'm a little bored with at this point, especially with the whole backtrack through the entire game again thing. Probably will get this on PC once it goes on sale though, the combat is still fantastic, but I wish it had more levels.
 
scoobidoo112 said:
Not so sure I'm excited for this all that much right now. I've already played the crap out of 4 on both the 360 and PC and, even though some of these additions are pretty cool, it's still one of those games I'm a little bored with at this point, especially with the whole backtrack through the entire game again thing. Probably will get this on PC once it goes on sale though, the combat is still fantastic, but I wish it had more levels.
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Yeah, I kinda worried about the backtracking too. Even though the new characters are cool, I feel as though I'm gonna get burnt out pretty quickly.
 
if we do a playthrough with all the characters, just think how many times you'll fight the same boss fights and how many times you'll have to destroy that sitting area in the church for the Red Orb requirement
 
ViewtifulJC said:
if we do a playthrough with all the characters, just think how many times you'll fight the same boss fights and how many times you'll have to destroy that sitting area in the church for the Red Orb requirement
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Welcome back.

And yeah, Orb requirements always messed me up. I hated those, and I'm not looking forward to having them back. If they make DMC5, I hope they ease it up a bit, or make it a little lenient like DmC did.
 
gunbo13 said:
Ah just realized 60fps UT only works on desktop chrome. Can you share 60fps with consoles?
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I think the Youtube app on PS4 shows videos in 60fps if it's set up for it.


ViewtifulJC said:
if we do a playthrough with all the characters, just think how many times you'll fight the same boss fights and how many times you'll have to destroy that sitting area in the church for the Red Orb requirement
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The benches will haunt us forever.
 
It's like a fighting game - if you don't plan to go balls deep with these characters, you probably don't want to hop in. It's a special edition, much like Ultra for Street Fighter.

Besides, none of these levels take all that long, and the backtracking element is different per Nero and Dante's runthroughs considering they change up the levels and what you do.
 
ezekial45 said:
Welcome back.

And yeah, Orb requirements always messed me up. I hated those, and I'm not looking forward to having them back. If they make DMC5, I hope they ease it up a bit, or make it a little lenient like DmC did.
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DMC3's solution (basically using the orb score to double-weight your Style score) worked well enough, as did DmC's solution (giving everyone score inflation by making one-time collectibles count toward your score).

It's DMC4's solution that's annoying with regard to the orb requirements (because it specifically only counts hidden orb caches and orbs from destructible environmental objects, not from enemies).
 
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