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[DealWithIt]

The reason they're not selling to GMG. Seems pretty obviousl. GMG wanted to sell it for cheaper than CDPR did. That's why GMG is going the Gouge route with resold keys from Russia/wherever. People are saying it's not graymarket, but it is. There buying keys from some country where they are sold for cheaper and then reselling them at the scalp rate. Even if they buy those keys from GOG or wherever, it's still graymarket reselling.

I don't see any way to see this as anything but bad for the developer.

 

[erawsd]

Seeing some posts here and some comments from my friends, CDPR has clearly damaged GMG's reputation.
CDPR needs to apologize to them for this.
Just because of many like their games, they can do anything they like but that doesnt mean they should.

Theres no apology necessary. GMG violated their own store policy, people have a right to know that.

 

[hawk2025]

The events and developments surrounding this matter are abhorrent, to say the least from a consumer's perspective.

What I don't understand is the legality of this entire scenario. Isn't an online reseller / retail outlet legally bound to a developer/publisher's terms (and vice-versa) when listing their products on the storefront ? This is how software distribution generally operates I reckon. They also list Bamco as the general publisher when they're only publishing the retail units in PAL territories like they did for The Witcher 2 (Atari did for NA IIRC). Moreover, how does CDPR get their margin from every sale that's done through GMG, if there isn't a contract at all ? Isn't this stuff illegal ?

If (a big one) indeed CDPR goes red alert (no pun intended) and tries to end their business relations with GMG after this debacle and wants to pull their games from GMG, can they do so ? Are there laws in place for these kind of instances, should they arise ? I don't even know where some illegal portals like G** operate, who sell stolen keys.

It's extremely complicated, particularly since the seller restriction seems to have been directly related to the seller that usually sells the cheapest.

No, they don't have to sell their product to every retailer. Retailers and producers in general have a multitude of agreements and contracts, including regarding pricing.

However, if the anticompetitive nature of not doing so is seen as a facilitation of price fixing, then it could fall under a violation of the Sherman Act. I doubt it ever would, but it's theoretically possible.

 

[draetenth]

Seeing some posts here and some comments from my friends, CDPR has clearly damaged GMG's reputation.
CDPR needs to apologize to them for this.
Just because of many like their games, they can do anything they like but that doesnt mean they should.

Shouldn't the blame go to Gamespot? It's their article that started this whole mess. We don't really know what exactly is going on. ATM, I find it hard to make a judgement on either CDPR or GMG, but Gamespot put out the article without really fact checking anything.

 

[~Kinggi~]

For the last time, there is no bloody scheme to get people to buy from GoG.

So then why is gog the cheapest? It's very easy to see cdpr didn't want anyone selling for any cheaper than their list price. Which is why GMG got the boot. It's the only reasonable explanation given especially their reaction to the news of gmg's cheaper price.

Gog is not the cheapest, for the 1000th time Steam is just as cheap. Gees people.

They had the cheapest price, no one was more cheap except for now GMG. So no I'm not wrong. The point is they cdpr wanted a price floor and that's why GMG got shut out.

Are you following the quote chain here? You seem confused.

 

[Nzyme32]

47.99 if you own the previous games

Of course, it seems the idea was to have GOG be the cheapest place for most people to buy, while also getting the largest cut of the profits since GOG is part of CDProjekt.

GMG have gone around that and basically ruined what they probably wanted to work in their favour

 

[gatti-man]

The reason they're not selling to GMG. Seems pretty obviousl. GMG wanted to sell it for cheaper than CDPR did. That's why GMG is going the Gouge route with resold keys from Russia/wherever. People are saying it's not graymarket, but it is. There buying keys from some country where they are sold for cheaper and then reselling them at the scalp rate. Even if they buy those keys from GOG or wherever, it's still graymarket reselling.

I don't see any way to see this as anything but bad for the developer.

Maybe instead of throwing out accusations cdpr could have actually said exactly that. But they didn't.

 

[Faustek]

The reason they're not selling to GMG. Seems pretty obviousl. GMG wanted to sell it for cheaper than CDPR did. That's why GMG is going the Gouge route with resold keys from Russia/wherever. People are saying it's not graymarket, but it is. There buying keys from some country where they are sold for cheaper and then reselling them at the scalp rate. Even if they buy those keys from GOG or wherever, it's still graymarket reselling.

I don't see any way to see this as anything but bad for the developer.

No one is saying you're wrong just that so far you're just pulling things outa thin air and presenting it as fact without being able to present proof.

 

[badb0y]

What I don't understand is the legality of this entire scenario. Isn't an online reseller / retail outlet legally bound to a developer/publisher's terms (and vice-versa) when listing their products on the storefront ? This is how software distribution generally operates I reckon. They also list Bamco as the general publisher when they're only publishing the retail units in PAL territories like they did for The Witcher 2 (Atari did for NA IIRC). Moreover, how does CDPR get their margin from every sale that's done through GMG, if there isn't a contract at all ? Isn't this stuff illegal ?

Nope, everything is legal here. I doubt CDPR put a "don't sell to GMG clause" in their agreement with authorized re-sellers.

If (a big one) indeed CDPR goes red alert (no pun intended) and tries to end their business relations with GMG after this debacle and wants to pull their games from GMG, can they do so ? Are there laws in place for these kind of instances, should they arise ? I don't even know where some illegal portals like G** operate, who sell stolen keys.

What business relationship? CDPR, by not selling keys to GMG, has already ended the relationship. G2A is different, it operates like Amazon where people can sell their own keys on the site (Something like that I am not sure about this one).

 

[Kama_1082]

And? GMG has been around for 5 years and there are countless customer testimonials. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt unless you have some other reason not to.

PLUS the contracts with other big publishers to sell keys. Are people that dense to think they'll fuck that up to become no better that G2P or Kinguin??

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The reason they're not selling to GMG. Seems pretty obviousl. GMG wanted to sell it for cheaper than CDPR did. That's why GMG is going the Gouge route with resold keys from Russia/wherever. People are saying it's not graymarket, but it is. There buying keys from some country where they are sold for cheaper and then reselling them at the scalp rate. Even if they buy those keys from GOG or wherever, it's still graymarket reselling.

I don't see any way to see this as anything but bad for the developer.

Ok. My responding to you normally isn't working, so I'll be more blunt. Stop presenting hearsay as fact until we know more.

 

[Tovarisc]

Seeing some posts here and some comments from my friends, CDPR has clearly damaged GMG's reputation.
CDPR needs to apologize to them for this.
Just because of many like their games, they can do anything they like but that doesnt mean they should.

Apologize for what?

Asking GMG how they are selling TW3's GOG keys when they were never given any by GOG to sell? And with rather insane discount, undercutting all other outlets by clear margin. I think that is reasonable thing to ask and doesn't take shit on ones reputation if all is aboveboard.

Not sure why GameSpot picked all this up when it was exchange in small thread on CDPR forum.

 

[gatti-man]

Are you following the quote chain here? You seem confused.

Do you not know when a store has the lowest price available they have the cheapest price. If someone else has the same price it is still cheapest. Do you need me to continue?

Gog wanted a price floor so no one could undercut them. This is plainly obvious.

 

[DealWithIt]

It's extremely complicated, particularly since the seller restriction seems to have been directly related to the seller that usually sells the cheapest.

No, they don't have to sell their product to every retailer. Retailers and producers in general have a multitude of agreements and contracts, including regarding pricing.

However, if the anticompetitive nature of not doing so is seen as a facilitation of price fixing, then it could fall under a violation of the Sherman Act. I doubt it ever would, but it's theoretically possible.

I'm sorry this does not make any sense. It is not anticompetitive: the game is available for sale on multiple different sites. Second price-fixing would be if they were trying to fix the price of *all* games. The developer can sell the witcher 3 for literally any price it wants and limit who they let resell it and it would not be price-fixing.

 

[chromatic9]

Seems like CDPR had a legitimate call here and I think it should be known how GMG is getting their keys if they're not working with CDPR or whoever. I appreciate CDPR speaking out.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why CDP looks shitty? Because they wonder why GMG is selling TW3's GOG keys that were never given to them by CDP and with insane discount?

Also if it's all good and okay why not to be more detailed about source of keys? CDP even clearly implied that they just want to know if keys are legit so any slashback from CDP to GMG is very unlikely.

Because they publicly called out GMG and told potential buyers not to avoid them, treating them as if they were some shady Russian CD key reseller despite having an existing business relationship. It's bad form. They could have just as easily contact GMG and asked them why they were selling keys despite being rejected by CDProjekt as an official reseller for The Witcher 3.

When it comes to the source of the keys, you typically don't just give out information about your business partners unless it's a mutually agreed upon thing.

Apologize for what?

Asking GMG how they are selling TW3's GOG keys when they were never given any by GOG to sell? And with rather insane discount, undercutting all other outlets by clear margin. I think that is reasonable thing to ask and doesn't take shit on ones reputation if all is aboveboard.

Not sure why GameSpot picked all this up when it was exchange in small thread on CDPR forum.

They could have easily clarified the issue in private. The way CDPR publicly behaved was shitty unless they actually tried to reach out to GMG before but were ignored, and it turns out that GMG actually is pushing keys from a discounted region.

 

[BennyBlanco]

If I'm GMG I wouldn't deal with CDPR after this.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

After people saying "don't jump to conclusions" earlier, now GMG responds and people jump to conclusions about CDPR calling them anti consumer and scummy...gotta love it

 

[codhand]

i've gotten similar discounts for pre release games via GMG and never seen this issue from a developer. sounds like we're waiting for clarity

 

[elitewillie1]

Theres no apology necessary. GMG violated their own store policy, people have a right to know that.

Didn't the statement from the GMG CEO basically fess up that they violated their policy and why they did it? I rather they violate their own policy than let CDPR create a pricing floor for the game. Why can't a company sell items for cheaper than their competitors? Amazon does this shit all the time. They are loss leaders. It's their business model.

 

[gatti-man]

Seems like CDPR had a legitimate call here and I think it should be known how GMG is getting their keys if they're not working with CDPR or whoever. I appreciate CDPR speaking out.

They had a chance to make a legitimate honest statement and just threw dirt at GMG so I'm definitely not thinking cdpr did the right thing here.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Do you not know when a store has the lowest price available they have the cheapest price. If someone else has the same price it is still cheapest.

You were trying to defend a point that GOG was forcing sales to them through price....when steam had an equal price that actually gives cdpr less of a cut, and also has a larger user base.

 

[erawsd]

Because they publicly called out GMG and told potential buyers not to avoid them, treating them as if they were some shady Russian CD key reseller despite having an existing business relationship. It's bad form. They could have just as easily contact GMG and asked them why they were selling keys despite being rejected by CDProjekt as an official reseller for The Witcher 3.

When it comes to the source of the keys, you typically don't just give out information about your business partners unless it's a mutually agreed upon thing.

They said they did contact GMG and got no response. So they told people:

"I would kindly ask our fans no to buy via GMG at this time. We had not sold them Keys and dont know the origin of them."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that statement. Customers have a right to know that GMG is acquiring keys from an "unknown source". Especially when GMG promises that all their keys come directly from the publisher. Since they werent upfront they deserved to be called out.

 

[nynt9]

And? GMG has been around for 5 years and there are countless customer testimonials. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt unless you have some other reason not to.

Gray market retailers like G2A and kinguin have also been around for years, have countless user testimonials and even streamer sponsorships going for them. Those aren't really an indication of legitimacy. FOr all we know GMG has been pulling this stuff for a long time behind the customers' backs and this is the first time it's been revealed. Who knows?

 

[Kama_1082]

If I'm GMG I wouldn't deal with CDPR after this.

they won't have to do so for another 4-5 years. This won't hurt them.

 

[Jimrpg]

For the sake of the argument, I can't find a brazilian site that sells the game for less than the equivalent 56USD.

Kinguin is (was?) selling the game for $38 AUS, equivalent of $30 US... Plus no VPN required.

 

[Kama_1082]

Gray market retailers like G2A and kinguin have also been around for years, have countless user testimonials and even streamer sponsorships going for them. Those aren't really an indication of legitimacy. FOr all we know GMG has been pulling this stuff for a long time behind the customers' backs and this is the first time it's been revealed. Who knows?

can you show me a link like this from Kinguin or G2A??

http://www.greenmangaming.com/publishers-developers/

 

[elitewillie1]

I'm sorry this does not make any sense. It is not anticompetitive: the game is available for sale on multiple different sites. Second price-fixing would be if they were trying to fix the price of *all* games. The developer can sell the witcher 3 for literally any price it wants and limit who they let resell it and it would not be price-fixing.

And you're ok with this? So if I wanted I couldn't buy an item from a company and then sell it for cheaper on eBay or Amazon. Once I purchase that item, I can do whatever I want with it. I could even set it on fire if I wanted to. CDPR is pissed that GMG was going to undercut GOG. If you can't see this then you are diluted.

 

[Qvoth]

bought heavensward from gmg, they're definitely legit
cdpr's probably trying to promote gog

 

[Necromanti]

Didn't the statement from the GMG CEO basically fess up that they violated their policy and why they did it? I rather they violate their own policy than let CDPR create a pricing floor for the game. Why can't a company sell items for cheaper than their competitors? Amazon does this shit all the time. They are loss leaders. It's their business model.

It's only speculation and probably unfounded, but if they refused to sell keys to GMG because they'd offer them for less than the agreed upon price, then I wouldn't like those implications. It would be nice to know why, in particular, they chose not to pursue a partnership with GMG this time around.

 

[gatti-man]

You were trying to defend a point that GOG was forcing sales to them through price....when steam had an equal price that actually gives cdpr less of a cut, and also has a larger user base.

I was making a claim that cdpr wanted gog to be the preferred platform by forcing everyone to not undercut them which GMG would have done. This is why everyone is at the same price. That's exactly how cdpr reacted too. Please don't buy the game from GMG buy it from gog

 

[badb0y]

Gray market retailers like G2A and kinguin have also been around for years, have countless user testimonials and even streamer sponsorships going for them. Those aren't really an indication of legitimacy. FOr all we know GMG has been pulling this stuff for a long time behind the customers' backs and this is the first time it's been revealed. Who knows?

Clearly you have some information that the rest of us don't.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

They said they did contact GMG and got no response. So they told people:

"I would kindly ask our fans no to buy via GMG at this time. We had not sold them Keys and dont know the origin of them."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that statement. Customers have a right to know that GMG is acquiring keys from an "unknown source". Especially when GMG promises that all their keys come directly from the publisher. Since they werent upfront they deserved to be called out.

I missed the part where GMG promised that their keys came directly from the publisher. Any source for that?

CDProjekt's statement would be fine if and only if they had firm reason to believe that GMG's keys were illegitimate. Seems unlikely given their reputation (and past relationship), but I suppose CDProjekt would know if they had already handed over a bunch of discounted Russian keys or whatever to a vendor who was likely to resell them at a low enough rate that GMG could sell for such a low price and still make money.

And you're ok with this? So if I wanted I couldn't buy an item from a company and then sell it for cheaper on eBay or Amazon. Once I purchase that item, I can do whatever I want with it. I could even set it on fire if I wanted to. CDPR is pissed that GMG was going to undercut GOG. If you can't see this then you are diluted.

Diluted? Heh.

The scenario you're presenting sounds plausible, but we really don't know. CDProjekt *could* have reason to believe that GMG is up to no good here and trying to resell some discounted regional keys. Unless you have inside information, why be so quick to jump to make a definitive statement on the matter?

 

[blankempathy]

People saying that perhaps they're nvidia promotional keys. I received one via newegg on a 970 purchase I made and the key I got had to be redeemed via nvidia's site in which i had to log in from my gog account in order to directly redeem my game onto my acccount. Same deal with batman arkham knight. Log in on steam via nvidia's site to redeem the key directly onto my account. So if they are nvidia keys it'll be pretty obvious unless other sites delivered people direct keys for gog.

 

[DealWithIt]

And you're ok with this? So if I wanted I couldn't buy an item from a company and then sell it for cheaper on eBay or Amazon. Once I purchase that item, I can do whatever I want with it. I could even set it on fire if I wanted to. CDPR is pissed that GMG was going to undercut GOG. If you can't see this then you are diluted.

You're misunderstanding the main point. They could literally set the price of the TW3 at $3000. And only sell it on GOG and it wouldn't be illegal. I'm not making a point against the first sale doctrine. Whatever GMG did to get the keys they are selling, which we obviously don't know for sure, would almost certainly be legal too. The only thing I'm saying is that CDPR isn't somehow breaking the law.

 

[komplanen]

It’s important to us that our customers trust us to provide them with official, publisher-endorsed games at competitive prices. Being official means that our customers have the reassurance that our dedicated Customer Service team can sort out any issues they might have directly with the publisher, that purchased games will work, and importantly, that the correct version of a game will activate in a customer’s region as it is supplied by direct from the publisher.

We are incredibly proud to be a business trading and working officially with the world’s greatest publishers and developers. We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence.

Except when said publisher says 'No' and we source the keys behind their back.

 

[chromatic9]

They had a chance to make a legitimate honest statement and just threw dirt at GMG so I'm definitely not thinking cdpr did the right thing here.

We have worked with GMG in the past for w2 and they were a legit partner.
We control all digital and the codes, and because we decided not to sell Keys to GMG it came as a suprise that they are doing a special promo without buying Keys from us. We have reach out to ask for the source of they Keys but up until now there was no response. They might sell nVidia Keys (which are not to be sold but gifted with the nVidia promo), or they just bough Keys from gog just like a regular customer and now they resell them with a loss (we cannot prevent anyone from selling something).
They also list Bandai Namco as the published which is not true for w3 (namco is our box distributor in PAL), so GMG is not a CDPR partner for W3 but they still might sell Keys that will work.

My impression is they already did ask but got no response so CDPR offered a warning. How long they waited we don't know. So it seems fair on CDPR part.

 

[elitewillie1]

So GOG doesn't want people going to buy their biggest title from GMG weeks away from the full launch of their new GOG Galaxy. GMG taking customers from GOG due to the cheaper pricing would have definitely put a damper on the GOG Galaxy party.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1040935

 

[erawsd]

Didn't the statement from the GMG CEO basically fess up that they violated their policy and why they did it? I rather they violate their own policy than let CDPR create a pricing floor for the game. Why can't a company sell items for cheaper than their competitors? Amazon does this shit all the time. They are loss leaders. It's their business model.

They violated the policy and then only fessed up because they were called out. If they were upfront about it from the start the entire incident would have been avoided. As a customer I have a right to know that before I pay for the product.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Except when said publisher says 'No' and we source the keys behind their back.

Interesting. Technically, they aren't lying since they do have a retail relationship with Namco Bandai and CDProjekt for other games. It's still really dishonest.

So GOG doesn't want people going to buy their biggest title from GMG weeks away from the full launch of their new GOG Galaxy. GMG taking customers from GOG due to the cheaper pricing would have definitely put a damper on the GOG Galaxy party.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1040935

Not really? It's still a GOG key they are selling, which means you need a GOG account, which means you'll go to GOG and see stuff about GOG Galaxy.

 

[impact]

Ah, that good ol' ethics-free mentality of 'fuck you! I got mine!'.

Yea because fuck other people getting money, I only give it to huge corporations!

 

[nynt9]

can you show me a link like this from Kinguin or G2A??

http://www.greenmangaming.com/publishers-developers/

The person said "customer testimonials", I was trying to draw a parallel.

Clearly when they don't have an official relationship with the developer they say "fuck it" and "acquire" keys anyway, so not sure how much legitimacy that gives them.

 

[erawsd]

I missed the part where GMG promised that their keys came directly from the publisher. Any source for that?

It’s important to us that our customers trust us to provide them with official, publisher-endorsed games at competitive prices. Being official means that our customers have the reassurance that our dedicated Customer Service team can sort out any issues they might have directly with the publisher, that purchased games will work, and importantly, that the correct version of a game will activate in a customer’s region as it is supplied by direct from the publisher.

We are incredibly proud to be a business trading and working officially with the world’s greatest publishers and developers. We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence.

http://www.greenmangaming.com/about/

 

[grandwizard]

Wow, GMG took a huge hit to their rep that they've been building up for the last couple years. Gamespot should be more careful before throwing accusations around. CDP refusing to sell them keys is some really lame business. GMG have always been reliable for me so I do not doubt that the keys they have bought are from authorized sellers that CDP sold to, in which case there is no issue with the product they are selling. This whole story has made them out to be some g2a-level grey market, and the posts by the mods on the gog forum don't help at all.

 

[EscapeArtist]

So GOG doesn't want people going to buy their biggest title from GMG weeks away from the full launch of their new GOG Galaxy. GMG taking customers from GOG due to the cheaper pricing would have definitely put a damper on the GOG Galaxy party.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1040935

You would still have to use the GOG Galaxy client to play the game though, the GMG keys are for GOG.

 

[badb0y]

The person said "customer testimonials", I was trying to draw a parallel.

Clearly when they don't have an official relationship with the developer they say "fuck it" and "acquire" keys anyway, so not sure how much legitimacy that gives them.

Nah, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Show me an instance from GMG where a working game has gone poof from the library of a gamer.

I'll wait.

 

[elitewillie1]

My impression is they already did ask but got no response so CDPR offered a warning. How long they waited we don't know. So it seems fair on CDPR part.

Why the hell would GMG respond though. The seller that sold them would be black balled if it came out that they sold keys to GMG after CDPR didn't want to sell to them. Why would GMG throw the companies that kept them in the game just to appease CDPR? For all we know GMG and those sellers entered into an agreement that they couldn't disclose that relationship. The GMG CEO already explained that they were legitimate sellers. Why can't we give the dude the benefit of the doubt? He has a shit ton to lose. It wouldn't be rational for him to screw his business like that.

 

[Fularu]

The reason they're not selling to GMG. Seems pretty obviousl. GMG wanted to sell it for cheaper than CDPR did. That's why GMG is going the Gouge route with resold keys from Russia/wherever. People are saying it's not graymarket, but it is. There buying keys from some country where they are sold for cheaper and then reselling them at the scalp rate. Even if they buy those keys from GOG or wherever, it's still graymarket reselling.

I don't see any way to see this as anything but bad for the developer.

Unless you have definite proofs that those keys come from Russia/Brazil/India/whatever you should stop posting it as fact

Because they aren't and no, it isn't graymarket reselling. As your handle implies, "deal with it"

 

[K.Jack]

Won't CDPR know exactly where the GMG keys are coming from, if they just buy a single key and look it up in their database?

 

[elitewillie1]

You would still have to use the GOG Galaxy client to play the game though, the GMG keys are for GOG.

Of course but they would lose out on the traffic to the site. With all the money they have probably invested in it. They would want it all. Come on man. Have you ever worked for a profit seeking company?