Yup, because when a company tells me to fuck off the first thing I do is respond to them inquiring about my business decisions.
EDIT: I really want to know why CDPR didn't sell GMG keys directly though.
CDPR keeping Witcher 3 keys for Origin, uPlay and GOG; tell GMG to go pound sand
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
Yup, because when a company tells me to fuck off the first thing I do is respond to them inquiring about my business decisions.
EDIT: I really want to know why CDPR didn't sell GMG keys directly though.
EscapeArtist
Banned
This has been brought up a few times, GMG isn't actually giving out keys yet. They will be doing so closer to the launch of the game.
tim_pkmn89
Member
Yeah. If the game was out.
Maybe they got boxed copies from Namco Bandai which is the official publisher for the boxed version? On GMG the publisher is listed as Namco Bandai.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Look how well it worked for Them too!
Which is fine. Just don't be surprised when the company, looking after its own business interests, issues a statement telling its customers to be wary of your content from an "unknown source".
DealWithIt
Member
I'm just curious, if CDPR didn't directly sell them keys and GMG is able to sell the game for much much cheaper than anyone else, how do you think they're getting ahold of the game to sell? Clearly I don't know how they did it. What's your explanation?
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
CDPR already debunked that
EscapeArtist
Banned
You do understand that most people probably don't have the GOG Galaxy beta downloaded already right? Which would still push people to the GOG website. And I'm fairly certain the GOG Galaxy client isn't 100% necessary for the game, you can just go to the website and redeem through there.
TheSlySoul
Member
I can agree with this. Obviously they felt they had to sell the game enough to break their moral code. At least they said it was not from the publisher.
GMG is being as honest as they can without breaking customer/vendor agreement.
Ah speculation. It could be GAME stores for all we know.
nephilimdj
Member
I purposely paid premium for GMG because of the partnerships, I dont want to support dodgy CD keys
I wont be supporting GMG if they get keys from some dodgy eastern european distributor even if "legitimate"
elitewillie1
Banned
Have a source for proof that they are getting them from a dodgy Eastern European developer?
Funny part is that you don't need GOG Galaxy to play the game.
You're fishing for a scandal that isn't there.
EscapeArtist
Banned
Yeah, I thought about that afterwords. My next post mentions that...I think that was part of the whole GOG Galaxy reveal, the fact that you CAN use it but you don't HAVE to use it.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
The poster said they won't support them **IF** they are, not that they were...
chromatic9
Member
In business people make mistakes and take chances sometimes when they seem legitimate.
I see people have strong feelings about GMG. I'd certainly like to know where the keys are coming from. On the site it says how they deal direct. I would appreciate GMG owning up on the sale page disclosing these aren't direct from source.
If he has a shit ton to lose then don't try to claim something that isn't happening.
elitewillie1
Banned
And what do they push you to use when you go to the GOG site? GOG Galaxy. That's why they want as many people as possible visiting their site. GMG selling their game for cheaper would eat some of that traffic.
Selective perception work at its finest
So CDPR decided not to provide keys for GMG to sell, so they went behind their back and acquired official keys from other retailers.
I find it difficult to sympathize with GMG in this case, as they'll still be making a profit from the sale. It's understandable if CDPR want to focus on promoting their GOG storefront, but it's still a tad surprising that they decided not to work with GMG for the launch of their most anticipated title. It would've been a win-win situation for both parties, yet it's CDPR call and GMG should've respected that.
I find it difficult to sympathize with GMG in this case, as they'll still be making a profit from the sale. It's understandable if CDPR want to focus on promoting their GOG storefront, but it's still a tad surprising that they decided not to work with GMG for the launch of their most anticipated title. It would've been a win-win situation for both parties, yet it's CDPR call and GMG should've respected that.
EscapeArtist
Banned
Dude, they still have to go to the website to redeem the code. Do you know how code redemption works?
Because there are plenty of options for them to get legit non emerging market keys
- boxed copies (from the bamco release)
- negociated wholesale Keys from an authorized western resseler and forgoing their profit in order to generate traffic and goodwill for their storefront (also know be as "loss leader" in the retail market)
Just to name a few.
In short unless you have definite proofs that those aren't global western keys, don't pretend like you do
Well, yeah, I meant eventually.
Point being that they are going to know, and GMG knows they're going to know, so all of the cloak and dagger is unnecessary.
People saying "GMG doesn't want to get their source blacklisted" aren't making any sense.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
This to me is the interesting part. What will CDPR do once they find out who's selling them keys? Blacklist both GMG and the reseller? If it is Namco-Bandai, as other users have pointed out they're on GMGs site and they're handling the physical copies..it'll be new territory into the Digital world of sales
They said that Namco isn't the publisher (they're just a distributor in this case) but I don't see where they debunked that the keys could have come from Namco.
elitewillie1
Banned
I can agree with them disclosing. "Sometimes we have partners that intend on manipulating prices on self published games. We find that to be anti consumer and will sometimes circumvent our own policy to make sure that, you the customers are getting the best prices on games."
I don't think Namco is willing to burn bridge between them and CDP by selling boxed copies to GMG so GMG can sell GOG keys from those. That most likely would breach some agreements between CDP and Namco, burning that relationship down. Even if it didn't breach agreements it would still severely harm that relationship as Namco isn't supposed to dabble in digital distribution of TW3.
Shyakugaun
Banned
What a mess, smh
VolticArchangel
Member
What I meant to say is that, CDPR should give the green signal to ANY authorized reseller of their products, since they're in a contract already with the reseller / retail chain which lists them as one of the partners, officially. If CDPR decides to revoke the distribution rights from GMG, they're well within their rights to do so and delist them as an official retailer of their products entirely. This entirely falls in a grey area now and there's no difference between G2A and GMG selling TW3 keys since both of them (I assume) don't pay CDPR their cut per sale, as both of'em didn't procure their keys from CDPR.
If they let them know before the keys are given out CDPR could cut that retailer out. After the keys are distributed and paid for CDPR aren't going to deactivate keys but right now no one has any so the only hit would be to GMG and the retailer having to refund customers. It is a very real concern for GMG and would require them to be shady until key are distributed.
I don't understand why people aren't getting this. If you don't get the keys directly from the publisher/developer you are in the grey market. That doesn't mean they are getting cheap region locked keys. It's just like me buying a bunch of keys off steam and selling them to someone else. I am not an official retailer even though I have legit keys. CDPR is within their rights to say they don't know where they are getting the keys from and can't guarantee when you will receive them and if they will work. There is nothing slanderous about that statement.
Yeah, I totally get that. And honestly, I have not lost respect for either company in this. I've been a very happy GMG customer for years and this doesnt change that. Likewise for CDPR. I've always been wary of Gamespot reporting and this doesn't change that either
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Presumably they would have asked their distributor before anyone else, including GMG, or bringing it up in public? But hey, I agree it's just an assumption, and this story is weird all around, heh.
Nothing would really shock me at this point
CDP refused to work with GMG? Just to push their platform? That's pretty fucking lame. I see they have no problem selling their wares on Steam even though those copies are tied to that marketplace and not GOG's. I don't get it.
Am I missing something here? This makes CDP look really, really petty here.
Am I missing something here? This makes CDP look really, really petty here.
Yeah wish GMG wouldn't have resorted to doing this - feels a bit shady to me.
Don't get me wrong, it's great that they want to go above and beyond for the customer. But CDPR saying the keys aren't from them goes against GMG's promise that they source direct from publisher. So where are the keys coming from then - in the interest of transparency I'd like to know.
I am sure CDPR would love that, they already didn't sell them any keys. Not having to deal with GMG which is undercutting the bigger marketplaces would seem like heaven to most publishers no?
No? The codes from GMG would have been GOG Galaxy codes, so it would of been better for their platform.
They didn't do anything of the sort. Most likely they wanted the price of the game to be around the same for everyone and GMG said fuck that. GOG is not any cheaper then steam.
Edi: full disclosure in case I decide to keep on participating.
I'm really biased in favour of GoG, drm free is King.
But that's the weird part. If they wanted to promote their own store they could've offered keys for the newly launched GoG platform instead of Steam.
I'm really biased in favour of GoG, drm free is King.
But that's the weird part. If they wanted to promote their own store they could've offered keys for the newly launched GoG platform instead of Steam.
TheSlySoul
Member
The way I see it they should have put in writing "keys given can only be sold to consumers only. Any selling to businesses voids the transaction and keys will be revoked."
But that is me. Would have made this a non-issue.
DealWithIt
Member
Someone earlier in the thread claimed CDPR had ruled out the Bamco Boxed copies. I don't know.
20$ off the top is a hell of a loss leader. Are CDkey margins that high on new games?
What do you mean no? The quote is right in the OP?
Again, I don't get it.
Just because of GMG's discount? Price parity? So fucking what? It lead to the same result anyways which is more people redeeming on GOG.
Let's try a thought exercise on the mechanics of what may have happened here.
The Witcher 3 is currently being sold on Steam, GOG, and other secondary platforms. From the information we know so far, it appears that, after an unsuccessful round of negotiations, CDPR has decided to not supply keys directly to GMG.
From the perspective of the business, we have the following scenarios:
- A sale from Steam, through which CDPR obtains approximately 70% of the price of sale
- A sale from GOG, through which CDPR obtains an undisclosed percentage of the price of sale. Presumably, being vertically integrated with CDPR, that amount is above 70%.
- A sale from other retailers and key sellers, who buy keys wholesales from CDPR at an undisclosed price.
Conditional on selling outside of Steam, it stands to reason that customers are more likely to be price-sensitive after leaving the predominant PC platform. GMG, in turn, has built a reputation for having the lowest prices in the market.
This, I assume, comes through by employing a razor-thin margins approach. They do not sell console games, do not ship anything, and work their business by cutting their own margins to the bone for most major new releases. Assuming very thin margins, then, we may expect their share of profits to sit anywhere between 25 and 33%, depending on the game -- roughly in line with Steam.
The margins from selling on Steam are fixed at 70% after Valve's cut, but is a function of the price, which encourages CDPR to avoid a price war. Furthermore, a faster speed of price decreases also decreases the competitiveness of the platform that's likely to have the largest margin for them -- GOG.
By attempting to block out GMG, then, CDPR can cut off the head of price competition in the PC gaming market: Prices are set at $53.99, with additional price differentiation for owners of the previous games, and in turn also obtains a proportionally larger share of the customer base on their own platform with higher margins.
In short: GMG's pricing practices can lead to lower prices from everyone else in general. But this particularly affects CDPR, since the competition with their platform directly affects the margin that they get by selling on GOG. Selling GOG keys on other retailers should be somewhat in line with selling a key in Steam -- the retailers get a cut, or Valve gets a cut. What GMG did was give nearly all of the "cut" back to the consumer. But in this case, moreso than with developers and publishers that do NOT hold platforms, CDPR's margins are more impacted than they otherwise would have been.
Restricting GMG from selling keys was a shrewd business move. But GMG didn't choose to just not sell the game, and so here we are.
Strictly based on the information we know -- It's ridiculous to excuse either CDPR's business decision to not sell keys to GMG, or GMG's decision to resort to another seller. There are two separate, if connected, issues to be analyzed: The negotiation with GMG and their subsequent move. One doesn't excuse the other, and we need more information to actually analyze either without making quite a few assumptions like I did above.
The Witcher 3 is currently being sold on Steam, GOG, and other secondary platforms. From the information we know so far, it appears that, after an unsuccessful round of negotiations, CDPR has decided to not supply keys directly to GMG.
From the perspective of the business, we have the following scenarios:
- A sale from Steam, through which CDPR obtains approximately 70% of the price of sale
- A sale from GOG, through which CDPR obtains an undisclosed percentage of the price of sale. Presumably, being vertically integrated with CDPR, that amount is above 70%.
- A sale from other retailers and key sellers, who buy keys wholesales from CDPR at an undisclosed price.
Conditional on selling outside of Steam, it stands to reason that customers are more likely to be price-sensitive after leaving the predominant PC platform. GMG, in turn, has built a reputation for having the lowest prices in the market.
This, I assume, comes through by employing a razor-thin margins approach. They do not sell console games, do not ship anything, and work their business by cutting their own margins to the bone for most major new releases. Assuming very thin margins, then, we may expect their share of profits to sit anywhere between 25 and 33%, depending on the game -- roughly in line with Steam.
The margins from selling on Steam are fixed at 70% after Valve's cut, but is a function of the price, which encourages CDPR to avoid a price war. Furthermore, a faster speed of price decreases also decreases the competitiveness of the platform that's likely to have the largest margin for them -- GOG.
By attempting to block out GMG, then, CDPR can cut off the head of price competition in the PC gaming market: Prices are set at $53.99, with additional price differentiation for owners of the previous games, and in turn also obtains a proportionally larger share of the customer base on their own platform with higher margins.
In short: GMG's pricing practices can lead to lower prices from everyone else in general. But this particularly affects CDPR, since the competition with their platform directly affects the margin that they get by selling on GOG. Selling GOG keys on other retailers should be somewhat in line with selling a key in Steam -- the retailers get a cut, or Valve gets a cut. What GMG did was give nearly all of the "cut" back to the consumer. But in this case, moreso than with developers and publishers that do NOT hold platforms, CDPR's margins are more impacted than they otherwise would have been.
Restricting GMG from selling keys was a shrewd business move. But GMG didn't choose to just not sell the game, and so here we are.
Strictly based on the information we know -- It's ridiculous to excuse either CDPR's business decision to not sell keys to GMG, or GMG's decision to resort to another seller. There are two separate, if connected, issues to be analyzed: The negotiation with GMG and their subsequent move. One doesn't excuse the other, and we need more information to actually analyze either without making quite a few assumptions like I did above.
Gmg is selling the GOG version not the steam one
True. Though it wouldn't be the first time that CDPR and Namco Bandai had a misunderstanding about distribution rights.
elitewillie1
Banned
Sir or ma'am. I really love you for this. Finally someone who understands business and economics. Thank you lord.
DealWithIt
Member
Nice post. The main question continues to be: Where did the keys come from? Perhaps we won't find out at all.
You're quoting an angry representative from GMG who is accusing them of pushing their own platform. Has GOG said they are doing this to "push their own platform"? That's a silly accusation, the pre-order codes GMG were selling were GOG Galaxy codes.
GMG got their codes from undisclosed sources, they are the ones in the wrong. Thus, they miss out on selling one of the years biggest PC releases.
EDIT: Also, see hawk2025's post.
Huh? I could swear it was the Steam version earlier. But hey, I've been wrong before an FZ double checking I see that you're right so my bad.
elitewillie1
Banned
Angry representative? He's the GMG CEO. Lol.
"In a statement to GameSpot, Green Man Gaming CEO Paul Sulyok explained that it tried to work with CD Projekt Red, but the developer chose to focus on its own platform, GOG.com, rather than give players more options for where they can buy the game."
Or there's another intermediary. Bamco sells boxed copies to company x, who in turn sells them to GMG. I'd be very surprised if Bamco weren't ultimate the source of these keys. I don't think it's an accident that they're listed as the publisher.