It doesn't have to be a perfect world, it can be this world. Unfortunately, that needs a healthy economy, which is not something the Tories have demonstrated the ability or desire to give us.
May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
- Thread starter Volotaire
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It doesn't have to be a perfect world, it can be this world. Unfortunately, that needs a healthy economy, which is not something the Tories have demonstrated the ability or desire to give us.
And something not enough people had faith in labour to deliver either
I don't really blame them, Labour have been truly shocking in opposition. They've let the Tories get away with lie after lie with barely even a challenge. If all that anyone hears is lies, with absolutely no challenge, of course you are going to start believing in them.
jimbobsmells
Member
Totally agree.
Exactly. And what about sports injuries. Surely if you're not playing, you're not at risk.
Discriminating treatment is the omega point of universal healthcare.
Because walking, running, exercising equates to shooting up or downing 12 cans of Stella?
In this hypothetical there'd be very targeted rules aimed at drug and alcohol abuse
I hope you don't enjoy red meat, because I'm certainly not paying for your bowel cancer treatment if you do!
I don't actually and in the current system you won't be paying for me, I've apparently paid for myself with taxes, but even in a hypothetical I'm sure I'd have heath insurance to cover myself so no worries
Because walking, running, exercising equates to shooting up or downing 12 cans of Stella?
In this hypothetical there'd be very targeted rules aimed at drug and alcohol abuse
Far too difficult to administer. Who's to say that ALL exercise is good for you? Running/hill walking can cause bone and cartilidge wear to accelerate at an astonishing rate.
That, by the definition we are working to, is not healthy.
I don't actually and in the current system you won't be paying for me, I've apparently paid for myself with taxes, but even in a hypothetical I'm sure I'd have heath insurance to cover myself so no worries
We've all paid for each other with taxes. That's how the healthcare system works.
Very true but as mentioned in the second part of my post I'm limiting it to drugs and alcohol abuse now.
I'd rather my taxes not be used to pay for a drunk who broke their arm in a fight or a druggie who od'd
Wrestlemania
Banned
Have you really thought through how this scenario would play out? Seriously - try to think through the various types of people who would be in this situation. How did they get there? Is this going to actually act as a preventative measure? Can they afford it? What happens if they can't?Because walking, running, exercising equates to shooting up or downing 12 cans of Stella?
In this hypothetical there'd be very targeted rules aimed at drug and alcohol abuse
Then move to a country that doesn't have a national healthcare system.
Of course I haven't! And that's why I'm not an mp or prime minister!
No thanks. I only said "I'd rather. .." so I'm not completely against it. .....
Wrestlemania
Banned
Happy to just spout off poorly thought out opinions about how things should be run though without the slightest consideration for the actual impact they'd have. Depressing.
just like most of the arm chair politicians in here then!
PJV3
Member
But you are a voter.
Captain_Spanky
Member
They're not "your taxes". This is a point that always irks me. We pay tax to the government who then spends the money as they see fit. It has transferred ownership. And really if you're that bothered about where "your taxes" are going just imagine you...oh I don't know...own a nice bit of road or something.
Ok not "my taxes" but "taxes I pay"
Brilliant.
RedSparrows
Member
That doesn't change anything. As the poster said, imagine you pay for the national parks, or something benign.
The moment you start to charge for something on a service already paid for, you open the door to far worse, imo, reducing lives to cost/benefit, disproportionately affecting those with less cash, etc. If the system is paid for by general taxation, the issue then lies with prevention over a punishment. Alcoholics are not criminals.
Drink drivers are. People who get in fights while drunk are. They don't have my sympathy.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Stopped reading at "Labour-SNP axis".
Great read and bang on with regards to being crucified on social media By the lefties.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
All this talk about deficits, balancing books, borrowing, overspending.
I wonder what the general public understands about any of this.
How does a deficit directly affect you as a low to medium income earner in Britain today?
How does a borrowing directly affect you? How does overspending affect you?
I wish someone asked the general public these questions.
I wonder what the general public understands about any of this.
How does a deficit directly affect you as a low to medium income earner in Britain today?
How does a borrowing directly affect you? How does overspending affect you?
I wish someone asked the general public these questions.
It's unworkable, far too many grey areas unless you apply a blanket charge to anyone who has ever smoked a fag or had a quaff.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I had a friend of mine say that his life is good so he isn't sure why people are so angry about the conservatives remaining in power. He's not even rich yet he's adopted the "I've got mine" mentality.
PJV3
Member
You're out drinking with friends, walking home by yourself another drunk person smacks you round the head. You wake up in hospital. With alcohol in your bloodstream.
Who is going to sort that out, do you want the nurses, doctors and the police putting effort into establishing your liability. Or do you just want on the spot fines and whether you were at fault or not ignored.
"The threat of a Labour-SNP axis looming over the United Kingdom, placing the economic recovery in turmoil and risking disuniting our nation was enough of an impetus for me to encourage everyone I know to back the Conservatives."
I had to laugh. They have done more to drive a wedge in the country than ever before with their antics in the election.
I had to laugh. They have done more to drive a wedge in the country than ever before with their antics in the election.
Wrestlemania
Banned
This isn't a left vs right thing, Jonno. You've given an opinion, you're being challenged on it and you're doing nothing to support it, just repeating your views over and over.
People aren't "crucified". Their views are challenged, and it's depressing how many immediately batten down the hatches and talk about "Everyone having a right to an opinion" and the "belligerent left". It's bullshit.
They treat you as normal then after determine if you were the aggressor.
Where do you draw the line?
A kid that breaks both legs trying a BMX trick should pay? Someone at fault for a car accident should pay for their full body cast?
How do we determine that someone got lung cancer from smoking and not from having family that smoked, or just because they got unlucky and got lung cancer.
If you're being treated for obesity at 18 is that your fault or your parents?
What if you need a gastric bypass at a cost of £10,000 but you've paid your taxes on your £50k a year job for the last 30 years?
It's really not as simple as "it's your own fault so you have to pay"
Why should bi have to justify my vote though? purely anecdotal, soneone at work told me they voted labour, my response "oh great" when I implied I did not I was demanded to explain why. Why should I?
jimbobsmells
Member
What is this? Utter nonsense.
And the time and money which will go into determining that is worth the £10 is it? It's a ridiculous idea, surely you realise that by now.
PJV3
Member
People like debates, just say it's none of your business if you don't want to explain.
exactly, they have already looked at this, the admin and debt collection costs will far outweigh what you recoup
no im that stupid that i believe its completely workable even after all this discussion and when I become president I will make sure you all pay for everything
PJV3
Member
Poor tories, they only run the press and the establishment.
Of course people offering facts and statistics from numerous sources to argue their point is being self-righteous, because everybody who is even slightly to left is a crazy marxist nut or something like that.
As a student surrounded by Tory voting students over the past couple of weeks, you won't believe the number of insults thrown my way for even merely suggesting that I don't necessarily agree with the economic plan of the last coalition government, or don't agree with their attitude to benefits and welfare. But I guess that sort of rhetoric is justified by the right because 'LONG TERM ECONOMIC PLAN' or 'GORDON BROWN CAUSED THE DEFICIT' and so on.
i don't think this matters so much wrt tories, though it does make the left look bad and while both left and the right do lots of tedious moralizing the left are so much more self-righteous about it. it's just a bit tacky, though it's understandable it's bad at the moment as i don't think the left had prepared itself for this result at all and were starting to feel positive about miliband.
i think the phenomenon is really bad when it comes to ukip. the narrative from the left is relentlessly mocking, dehumanizing and smearing anyone interested in ukip as idiotic, uncultured scum while simultaneously congratulating themselves at how enlightened and empathetic and savvy they are by comparison. refusing to engage them in a meaningful way. then hey presto labour clearly lost a lot of its working class vote to ukip on thursday who weren't convinced by their message while doing well in metropolitan liberal areas like london. the second of which had little impact, another helped hand the tories a majority by crippling them in english and welsh marginals.
sheepishlord
Member
Sounds horrifying.
Ive noticed that a lot. Ive seen plenty of instances on here, facebook and twitter of people coming out as having votes Conservative being jumped on and asked to explain and whatever reason that's given is summarily dismissed out of hand.
I hope that guy goes to jail for that utterly dehumanizing tirade.
PJV3
Member
Ignore them, disagree with them.
Or if you don't want to discuss it then avoid the topic altogether.
I'm not seeing the hardship really.
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