How much would it cost to produce a target render of the concept art they've released?
Oh sorry I haven't followed the MN9 kickstarter.
Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)
- Thread starter PranooY
- Start date
How much would it cost to produce a target render of the concept art they've released?
Oh sorry I haven't followed the MN9 kickstarter.
Didn't they show off alpha screenshots of MN9 before the Kickstarter ended?
Eitherway, the only issue I had with MN9's graphics is that it lacks a sense of characterization/style, but that seems to be improving steadily as I see more of the game. It has some simple geometry and strays away from being flashy and could certainly use some higher resolution textures, but it is a Vita / 3DS game.
I wish people would not conflate engine with aesthetic. People thinking KH3 is gonna be full of roided up dudebros and chest high walls are in for a shock(my guess)
The fact of the matter is, UE4 is far more versatile and scalable than 95% of other engines on the market, and easier to use for x86 architecture.
It would be nice if every project can go to Kickstarter with a polished vertical slice to show off, but not every Kickstarter project is starting off from the same place in development. There are projects were the game is already near completion but needs the extra funding to finish. Here we have a project that isn't even getting any of its funding from investors until the Kickstarter proves to them that the community is there and willing to vote with their dollars. Most of what's been done so far on Bloodstained has likely been out of pocket for the devs.
So was kojima productions but they're more outliers.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Obviously backed lol. I thirst for this shit. And Iga is the man.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mightyno9/mighty-no-9/posts/613681
This video was up before the kickstarter ended.
Ah I see. Didn't know that any funds were contingent on the kickstarter's success. I wish that more games like this would be kickstarted. Having at least art released that more accurately represented the final product would silence most of the naysayers I feel.
Nah, it shows that rich white middle aged men with too much money like to donate it to causes they like, like a new castlevania game.
I fear Iga is pulling a quick easy cash in. I'm stunned people aren't suspicious at him turning his back on sprites.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
I legitimately wonder what's going through Igarashi's head right now. He, and his team, are probably very humbled by the amount of support he's received for his project within the past 24 hours.
On another note, I shared the Kickstarter information on my FB feed. Many gamers like myself have shared it across the board. Markman included.
I personally have a friend who donated $175 to the Kickstarter and currently he's in Japan for a while.
I am replaying old CV games just because I'm super excited about this. lol.
Did I miss the breakdown on the demographics of Kickstarter donors to this project?
When was that released?
I dont think many people know he isn't using sprites.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Still an average of $77 per pledge. It's pretty incredible so many people are willing to pay $75 for this game, figuratively speaking.
On one end of the spectrum you have people complaining $28 is too much for a copy of the game. But the numbers show that 20,000 people were already like "yeah, $75 is good."
On one end of the spectrum you have people complaining $28 is too much for a copy of the game. But the numbers show that 20,000 people were already like "yeah, $75 is good."
What's to be suspicious about? Using sprites for Castlevania games was quick and easy because they had so many other games to pull assets from, and since they were all for handhelds their resolution wasn't an issue. Now divorced from all his previous games they'd have to make them all from the ground up and they'd have to be high quality enough for HD displays.
3D is the sane choice.
From my experience they don't appear to. On FB ppl were freaking out, but I had to let them know this is not even sprite based, so this whole notion of a new castlevania is not true at all.
3d has a distinct way of moving, with its different hit collision and so on, it will feel very different to castlevania, and it might just feel bad, like cheap 3d tends to.
If it were a quick, easy cash in, the game would be coming out next year.
So I was remembering right.
Yeah, I kept my expectations in check and held on to the pledge, I'm more worried about either bland level design or perhaps too much focus on being a score attack type game (which may be unfair on my part, I'm just concerned about fixating more on racking a high score rather than just getting through tricky stages) than the game not actually being this amazing looking 2D game.
Heh
Whattaya think? Someday we will look back on this and laugh at how primitive it looks, but for now, for only one week of test work, its pretty darn cool, dont ya think?
sixteen-bit
Member
Stretch Goal: Playable Testament?
I wish people would not conflate engine with aesthetic. People thinking KH3 is gonna be full of roided up dudebros and chest high walls are in for a shock(my guess)
The fact of the matter is, UE4 is far more versatile and scalable than 95% of other engines on the market, and easier to use for x86 architecture.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Or you can just use 2D hitboxes like Street Fighter IV and maintain the feel. Your concerns are really paper thin. /:
Considering Dracula X Chronicles is just fine too you're really reaching.
I think in a year or so people are gonna be salty about this, but is that racially charged comment really gonna ad something of worth to the conversation?
Thats the whole point. There are things that made castlevania great and exciting. One of the most important things, is being dumped because its a bit too expensive. It can be done, but it will be harder, and I fear Iga is just too old, and this is a quick scam job.
But anyway, 3d might be the smart economical choice, but now it doesn't have an essential ingredient in making a great castlevania type game. The feel, the flow, the movement, all of that now will be some strange foreign, stiff, thing, that will be not fun, and pointless.
Sevyne
Member
The hell? Got anything to back that ridiculous claim?
This isn't completely true or fair to say because there are a lot of tricks they can pull with a 2.5D game to make it feel like whatever they want, and ultimately the feel of the game is up to the designers and tools that they use.
As an example of brilliant 2.5D gameplay, look at Donkey Kong Country Returns.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
What? Iga's not even 50.
direct_quote
Member
Yah basically, it seems people with these strange arguments against 2.5d don't understand how game can be constructed in 3d and still behave like a 2d game from a mechanical stand point..
Holy Order Sol
Member
did I just get lolwhitepeople'd in a not-Castlevania thread
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
I also started playing AoS for the nth time. And later today a bunch of gaffers are playing CV HD.
Easy - just consult your privilege matrix handy pocket guide!
On the one hand yes, Japan is definitely out of touch with the world in some ways aside from companies who have actually broken free and embraced the fact that they have a Western audience - Idea Factory immediately spring to mind.
On the other hand if this game just came out as a retail product with no KS style marketing trick it probably wouldn't actually get store shelf space, and that's a problem. Not only does this get them 'x' guaranteed pre-sales but it also creates a lot of free advertising.
Oh come on, its not racially charged. I'm just commenting on the fact, the richest per capita place on the planet, have very similar tastes, nostalgia for old videogames. And those tend to be the things that get funded the most quickly on KS, over anything else. Videogames stuff.
Its just commentary on the fact, many of these games can find life on KS, but not in the traditional games market, because those minority of rich people have the same tastes, and like giving money for causes, if a videogame can be called a cause. Its a unique situation and fruitful situation for nerd nostalgia causes.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Are you locanclaws registered with a new account?
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Big head mode >>> Hayter
3D can move like 2D sprite, but it requires quite a bit more effort than just pure 3D. There is that post in another topic which is really quite instructive:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=163714438&postcount=49
I would have preferred a Vanillaware approach, but I'm totally fine with 2.5D, as it's a reasonable way to make good looking game with plenty of content.
Red Arremer
Member
Alright, I pledged 60$ (+5 shipping :s ) for the physical copy. Was very tempted to get the digital version, but I think I'd prefer having the physical one and get the soundtrack off of Steam or somesuch, I'm sure they'll make it available digitally.
Ben Morales
Member
I was about to ask the same thing. What in the world is going on?
Does seem super hostile for no reason.
BassForever
Member
Everyone whining about 2.5D graphics needs to go play Xrd and DKC TF before posting in this thread again
Unknown Soldier
Member
I like the way you think. I'm getting some NBA Jam nostalgia like right now.
bigboss370
Member
Please play like Symphony of the Night, pls!
Do you think they'll lynch me if I said I actually ... kind of thought Strider looked ok?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
You do realize that castlevania has been 2.5d before, right? Drac X Chronicles was 2.5d, played pretty well for a psp game, and felt about as fast as the original rondo of blood.
Devs have been making 2,5 games since the ps1, and it can be done very, very well. Calling it a 'scam job' is just asinine, as you have literally nothing to back that up, besides them not wanting to spend millions and god knows how many man hours to do 1080p sprites.
Sevyne
Member
You heard it here first folks! Game definitely will be stiff, not fun, and pointless.
Playtested in the future by Bluefoot!
Seriously though; Most people (here especially) know the risks and may have even been burned by a kickstarter before. It happens and could even happen here, but is that a guarantee? Not at all. This way of funding games will always be a gamble, but there really is no other alternative. Pubs just don't see enough profit from these kinds of games to be worth funding.
If you are not confident in taking that gamble, then simply don't. Two thing can happen from there. Either everyone who funded gets burned by a bad product or they get exactly what they were hoping for. If they get the latter then that's great, and nothing is stopping you from just getting it at release instead.
Honestly, the only problem I even had with Strider's visuals was the lack of color and zone variety. The execution of 2.5d otherwise was fine.
NoPiece
Member
I don't think publishers are out of touch, they just have big expectations, and exist on a business model that requires big hits. Look at other big game kickstarters like Project(Pillars) of Eternity. They raised 4 million on Kickstarter, and according to SteamSpy, have sold 362,000 copies. So big interest on Kickstarter doesn't mean a games has million copy sales potential, which is what big publishers want.
Some other big kickstarters and their steam sales numbers.
Wasteland 2 - $3m kickstarter, 427k units sold.
Broken Age - $3.3m kickstarter, 258k units sold
Shadowrun Returns - $1.8m kickstarter, 740k units sold
Which makes me love Kickstarter even more, because it allows non-blockbuster games to get made.
I agree. People complain that it looked...sterile? But I think the art style matched the futuristic levels.
Red Arremer
Member
They explained the reason why they decided to use 2.5D instead of spritework in the announcement stream.
They said that with Castlevania, they had assets they could reuse which took the workload off of the sprite artists. Keep in mind that the series had used the same skeleton sprite from Rondo of Blood all the way to Harmony of Despair, just with minor alterations to suit the respective platform's graphical limitations.
However with this game, they'd have to create everything from scratch, and good hand-drawn 2D art that doesn't look cheap or tries to emulate a retro look takes significantly more resources than 3D models.
And I doubt Iga is going to pull a scam on this. He's got a name and a reputation within the industry. In the announcement stream, he seemed like a fantastic guy, a person who truly wants to make games he wants to make and that the people who enjoy his work will like to play.