bemusedchunk
Banned
Explain how all 3 are then.
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Is Console Gaming coming to a close?
- Thread starter Cavalier
- Start date
Explain how all 3 are then.
Boombloxer
Member
Because the WiiU is a terrible mass market console.
Doesn't mean it couldn't work for someone else that actually offered a reason to "trade up" for a bigger/"better" experience.
Again, it's more the types of games vs there being a healthy market for it. Is it conceivable that someone who likes CoC might enjoy X-Com or Total War? Sure.
Is it conceivable that someone who likes CCS would find something as an equivalent? Probably not. Lego games? Minecraft? Yep.
Vainglory? Yes, that's LoL or DOTA 2.
Again, not really. Certain platforms are better suited for different genres.
Plug & Play - The installs don't go slower, largely because you're patching the same amount of game data. If anything, both platforms pre-load the content and the patch--the sole exception is gpu patches, which doesn't really apply to consoles.
Unified Online System - No, PC doesn't have this, and stop pretending. Steam doesn't have Diablo, Battlefieldl or WoW. This is not unified, period.
No hacks - Most console games don't. Many of the ones you're thinking of have legacy hacks from the PS3/360. There's always going to be an element of that regardless of platform, but you're less likely to see it on console.
- Tailored performance - "Worse than PC" doesn't actually apply to the greater market. Price and selection (and marketing) do. $400 and you're good to go for years, because most of the AAA crowd, and even the indies can run on it fine.
- same online experience - This isn't a grasp. There's fighting sticks and the like, but this is also the segment that competes for money, and there's a healthy market there for PC (mice/pad/hardware, etc) and console (pad, sticks, etc). The barrier to entry is standardized.
- Resell disk games: And some never come, or come later. The value of playing multiplayer games on the first day is a big deal for a lot of people, and when you're ready to move on, that's that. There's really no point to discussing this one. I can buy Syndicate right now for $20, but was it worth missing out on the initial rush? For some it isn't.
- lending games to friends: And you can do this with discs or Share Play for console. Point is moot.
It doesn't, because companies will always want to have their interests protected, regardless of platform. Even on PC this isn't true--you cannot use an Origin ID on Battle.net, nor use a Steam ID to play ME4.
One hardware standard doesn't lessen anything, you'd just have more storefronts. The software market in general can't be coordinated like that--even the ultimate example, Microsoft, couldn't do it.
I see this ideal mentioned all of the time, and its simply not realistic. Consoles existing actually simplifies everything, which is what the 60M plus people that come with price drops actually want.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I don't disagree, but the jump from NSMB (huge seller) on the Wii -> NSMBU on the WiiU seems far more plausible than mobile phone -> PS5 as was being suggested
vpance
Member
Most people that bought Wii were false gamers. And certainly Wii to WiiU was not exactly the smoothest of transitions between generations, which turned many off I'm sure.
Anyways, there won't be a 1:1 jump of course. It's all about that trickle down effect.
All gaming platforms are gateway drugs to others
I'd like to see more AAA strategy games, personally.Generally speaking, consoles give people better visuals then they could reasonably expect from a PC with a similar price-tag. This is especially true if you want to go with an entirely pre-assembled product, as prebuilt gaming PC's tend to either be really expensive or really crappy. There's also ease of use, which is very important to many consumers.
I'm not disagreeing that PC's can do most/all things better, but that's not how most consumers operate. Most consumers however, do not place as much value in a lot of the higher end visual effects. As such, things like cost, convenience, and selection, tend to rule.
timetokill
Banned
The casuals betrayed us. Wicked. Tricksy. FALSE gamers!
We ought to wring their filthy little necks. Kill them! Kill them all!
And then we play our precious PS4s...
You get rid of consoles, you get rid of the monetary force that drives AAA development.
4 out of 5 BF4 copies sold were on Xbox One or PS4
This isn't unique to BF4, either.
While overall revenue on PC is higher, that is mostly made by PC exclusives or indies. Look at the best selling games list for PC arranged by release date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_games
Most are PC exclusives, which are great, but seem to be RTSs and strategy games. I love those games but I also love the Battlefields, Elder Scrolls and other big AAA series. Those sales are on consoles. Without consoles, a major factors driving AAA development is the funds derived from console sales.
bemusedchunk
Banned
Thats right. These "fake" gamers.
Only true gamers allowed, with my Droid Maxxx and my copy of 2048 over here.
Melchiah
Member
Plug and play
The PSN is slower, but all the files download fast for me. I get 70Mbps speed on the PSN test.
Unified online system
I don't have an active Steam account. I've only used it for downloading HL2 demo back in the day.
No hacks
You can still play offline, if you have activated the PS4 as your primary system.
Tailored performance
No fiddling with drivers and game files, or need to wait user-made mods, to get the games run properly.
EDIT:
No PS platform, no SCE games to play. Considering, that over a third of my last gen games were published by Sony, I don't see how it would be a good thing if they stopped making games.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
All gaming platforms are gateway drugs to others
Having seen multiple "console versus PC threads" on GAF where "consolez 4 lyfe" gamers give what I consider to be excuses as to never taking the PC seriously such as cost, not wanting to be "tethered" to a desk, refusal to use a control scheme unfamiliar to them, the performance differential being not that big a deal and all of their friends being on their current platform choice (all of which work and then some as reasons to never look at consoles when coming from a mobile background) I think expecting a huge exodus away from mobile is pretty optimistic.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
I've mostly been a console gamer my whole life (since the 2600 days), but I'm getting tired of it all. Most of the good new stuff is available on PC, and emulation provides a much better bit of backward compatibility. I'd rather emulate Final Fantasy I or Dragon Warrior with an Xbox pad, than try to get my cartridge working again (dead battery, shitty old NES with bad contacts in a box somewhere).
I like my PS4, and I still might get a Wii U if it drops in price and they actually put out a single game that would actually excite me (A real Mario game, Metroid, FZero, or Zelda), but I'm ready to throw in the towel on consoles. That being said, I'll just follow along, if only for convenience.
I like my PS4, and I still might get a Wii U if it drops in price and they actually put out a single game that would actually excite me (A real Mario game, Metroid, FZero, or Zelda), but I'm ready to throw in the towel on consoles. That being said, I'll just follow along, if only for convenience.
bemusedchunk
Banned
I was in a similar boat as you.
But instead of pumping 400+ dollars into my current PC, I decided to go with a PS4.
Why? Because my PC is hooked up to my tv, which is stuck at 60hz anyway, and games coming out these days thats I tend to play seems to be more optimized for consoles anyway.
But in the end its no different than a car or a house or a job - it's all subjective.
Astral Dog
Member
There has been definetly a decline on Japan,
. otherwise PS4 seems to be healthy.
but thats old news
No, this is absolutely not the case, and in fact it's one of the most damaging attitudes in modern gaming and needs to stop.
A correct way to say it is "some platforms can only support a subset of genres".
Manmademan
Member
they aren't, because it's clear that the PS2's audience results from growth from the PS1/N64/Saturn era, and the 360 splits the PS2/Xbox audience with the PS3.
There's a significant overlap between the Sony and Microsoft audience, and not a lot of platform loyalty. Shifting between the two is a well established phenomenon by now.
The vast majority of the Wii audience were NOT regular console buyers the previous generation, and vanished from the market, abandoning the platform completely in the middle of the generation before a successor launched. THAT'S unheard of, and that's why the Wii is an outlier but the PS2 and 360 aren't.
Boombloxer
Member
I agree with that. It's a stretch to say that Angry Birds folks will suddenly enjoy LBP or a Mario title.
Other genres? Depends
No, it's not. It's a reflection of basic trends. There's entire genres on each platform that do fine without the other.
The biggest MOBAs have no console presence. They thrive.
The biggest Console genres get their lionshare from 2 platforms. They thrive.
Some games never release on either, and do fine.
So, no, not really.
Sometimes it's excuses, and other times, people simply have no interest in it, gotta let it go. My wife views a PC as something for work, period. She'll never play on PC, regardless of game, and she plays 30+ hours a week.
Same game comes to console? Day 1. A lot of the mass market is like that.
And hey, I agree that expecting mobile to suddenly collapse is pretty dumb. But I think the same way about console and PC gaming--there's overlap, but all of these platforms can co-exist just fine for the right product.
Now, there's folks that want console/PC/Mobile gaming to go away, and yea, this is a pipe dream.
bemusedchunk
Banned
Thank you for this post.
Oh so now you're saying console gaming has actually been declining for a while instead of the decline starting this gen? And there were totally no dirty casuals on the ps2!
How bout just looking at numbers instead of falsely trying to classify things without any prevailing notion other than what you feel inside?
Natureboy99
Banned
Of course. I understand all that. I'm saying there will always be gamers passionate to play groundbreaking experiences, and there will always be developers who want to make groundbreaking experiences. Business men will always choose what makes the most money, but sometimes that means risking a large pile of cash to get everyone's attention with something passionate and fresh.
And anyone who said that during the Wii heyday was branded a bitter gamer, stuck in the past, unable to accept the "new gamers". There were a million articles about how gaming was changing and how this new crowd was going to change everything
Then it turns out that people were right. They were just fairweather gamers, due to a fad and nothing else.
Gamers and their predictions are often wrong, but this was a case where they were 100% on the money.
I excluded portables:
And one without Nintendo:
Something to factor is the price of those consoles sold. Also, the numbers seem a bit off, but I can't be bothered to check them, I'll take the site as legit.
dream
Member
If they moved on to mobile gaming (and I think that's a reasonable assumption to make because the mobile gaming demographic is so broad and vast), didn't they do just that? Didn't they change everything?
vpance
Member
In the end, perception may as well be reality. But that's only PC's fault since there is no governing PR body, so to speak, or billion dollar advertising on TV.
Fanboys will herd into one platform but casuals can be pretty open to trying different games, at least in the beginning. Then they find Neogaf and..
Triplicates
Member
It's facing an unprecedented crisis. I think it's too early to say how PS4/XBO will measure up in total compared to their predecessors but even if things stay at around the same size, which may be the most optimistic outcome, that does not bode well as there needs to be growth to justify the rising costs of development.
Besides hardware sales is an incomplete indicator. We'll need to take a look at budget sizes, number of titles published, total software sold, operating profit in console game development etc. to get the whole picture. I suspect all of these indicators would form a compelling argument for most businesses to draw down console investment.
Besides hardware sales is an incomplete indicator. We'll need to take a look at budget sizes, number of titles published, total software sold, operating profit in console game development etc. to get the whole picture. I suspect all of these indicators would form a compelling argument for most businesses to draw down console investment.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
You shouldn't, the data source is chartz.
timetokill
Banned
No, they're still bitter, and they're still wrong. And even more wrong today. You can see it with every "but Nintendo doesn't count!" post. Like any rational person would view a market that way.
The PS2's success was due in large part to the expanded market. People that bought it for its DVD capabilities, or for the odd game here and there.
The Wii captured those people and expanded the market further. That's what happens in a growing market.
No rational person would discount huge segments of the market with a "no true scotsman" fallacy but you see it here on GAF ad nauseum.
If most of this expanded market has shifted over to mobile where they're still playing games, I'm sure many of you would clutch at your precious and call them "FALSE GAMERS" too. But they're still playing games, they're just playing Crossy Road now, and it's on mobile. As far as "changing everything" -- you'll notice that today a fairly large "console" gaming company has now shifted entirely to mobile. They're far from the first and they're far from the last.
It has nothing to do with fads. It's just standard market dynamics.
If that crowd has left consoles then yes, the console market is contracting, and the numbers so far bear that out.
I don't know why this seems to be a bitter pill for so many outside of fanboyism. Is it the idea that your favorite company is "winning" now only for the prize to be less golden than it was in years past?
vpance
Member
I don't think they moved on to mobile gaming because of Wii though. They got into it because the platform was literally in their hands all the time.
bemusedchunk
Banned
I do agree with you, but you can't deny that from a hardware perspective, the Wii is a bit of an anomaly and thats why it's considered an outlier. It's true that it brought in a lot of people who wouldn't normally play games - WHICH IS A GOOD THING.
However, these same people (most likely) transitioned to either the handheld market or the smartphone market. Again, there is nothing wrong with that.
What most people forget now is that the average gamer is over 30, and plays small games on their smartphones or tablets. They are still considered gamers. The market is growing, but consoles aren't dying either. If anything it's just holding steady.
You are wrong. At least from my perspective. A significant portion of the games I've bought over the last decade have been published by Sega.
I think a post I just made is better suited for here instead:
People not thinking physical media and platforms aren't about to disappear sound like every 8 track, cartridge, VHS, DVD, BRD, physical media supporter/lover I have come across throughout my life. Technology isn't static. Having a business model of selling SOFTWARE on a physical closed platform is a ridiculous business decision. "Consoles" as you know it will disappear. It's going to happen sooner than later. Anyone not having this mindset is just somebody who is setting their selves up for disappointment.
Physical media is also on its way out of the door and will become more of a nostalgia/collector's kind of thing. Most media device's don't even come with disc drives anymore.
Spending money on R&D for a piece of physical DRM that sells at or below cost just seems ridiculous
What you're going to see are companies setting up digital distro platforms that people can enjoy games from whatever device they choose. You already have companies with distribution services that have EXCLUSIVES. Why have a console for that. You don't need hardware for exclusives. Microsoft is setting things up for themselves with Windows 10. I'm sure other companies are getting in that same mindset. Why limit yourselves to one device.
It has nothing to do with PC. You have mobile hardware that can become stationary units if consumers wanted big screen entertainment. You got bigger pieces of hardware for people who want more eye candy, framerate, and picture quality for their VR/big screen experience. You're going to have graphical engines with amazing scale-ability (like UE4) that can run software at different levels of fidelity for multiple devices. So as not to limit people on their way of how they want to game.
I just don't understand people who are set on archaic ways of thinking when it comes to entertainment technology.
It's not about consoles dying, it's about platforms evolving.
People not thinking physical media and platforms aren't about to disappear sound like every 8 track, cartridge, VHS, DVD, BRD, physical media supporter/lover I have come across throughout my life. Technology isn't static. Having a business model of selling SOFTWARE on a physical closed platform is a ridiculous business decision. "Consoles" as you know it will disappear. It's going to happen sooner than later. Anyone not having this mindset is just somebody who is setting their selves up for disappointment.
Physical media is also on its way out of the door and will become more of a nostalgia/collector's kind of thing. Most media device's don't even come with disc drives anymore.
Spending money on R&D for a piece of physical DRM that sells at or below cost just seems ridiculous
What you're going to see are companies setting up digital distro platforms that people can enjoy games from whatever device they choose. You already have companies with distribution services that have EXCLUSIVES. Why have a console for that. You don't need hardware for exclusives. Microsoft is setting things up for themselves with Windows 10. I'm sure other companies are getting in that same mindset. Why limit yourselves to one device.
It has nothing to do with PC. You have mobile hardware that can become stationary units if consumers wanted big screen entertainment. You got bigger pieces of hardware for people who want more eye candy, framerate, and picture quality for their VR/big screen experience. You're going to have graphical engines with amazing scale-ability (like UE4) that can run software at different levels of fidelity for multiple devices. So as not to limit people on their way of how they want to game.
I just don't understand people who are set on archaic ways of thinking when it comes to entertainment technology.
It's not about consoles dying, it's about platforms evolving.
pixelation
Member
I am error.
The NX will be a dedicated game system. Smartphones and tablets are separate from it.
Steam Machine is a dedicated system... that can also be accessed from multiple devices. I really think Nintendo is about to prep a digital service that can be enjoyed by anyone with a media device.
I know that this is going to come up from someone. As for people harping about peripherals, what's stopping them from getting it to work with other devices? People already game with multiple peripherals from other traditional console companies on PC or tablets.
Boombloxer
Member
Easy, because all of this depends on having a great connection to the internet.
Not good, 3MB range. Great--20 and up.
Until that's more readily solved, most of what you say doesn't apply. And because so much of the gaming world is dependent on that hardware--ie Gamestop, WalMart, Amazon, Best Buy, this ensures that there's going to be physical media for a long time.
Too many times, I'll see this argument made without an understanding that quite a few people want both, or circumstances only permit a certain level of bandwidth consumption, and not everyone can grab 40-50 Gbs in one shot.
My connection here is 300/30 with no download cap. Best friend? 25/5, and he's in the northwest. Close friend? 15/3, because he lives in the middle of nowhere. It does no good to cut off these customers that still shop at those locations named above, because someone else will serve them.
Digital downloads grow every year for the top Pubs. EA reports great numbers...and the digital range is still nowhere close to a threshold you'd need to make that kind of mass switch.
4 years ago I was in the middle of a desert in Kuwait download games on Steam. It took all night, but it was still better than trying to walk to the nearest point of civilization which was more than an hour away. I don't see what the issue is since they do have internet and preloads go up all the time. Even if I could have got a ride to a city, I would have preferred to have the game digitally anyway.
I could understand if they were in a third world country and had no internet, but people in those countries are way more concerned about other things than playing the latest game that's released.
What I stated above isn't going to happen tomorrow, but it's going to happen. It's not going to be about who sells the most consoles, but who has the most accounts on their service.
timetokill
Banned
I don't really view it as an anomaly though. It simply came in and drank the PS2's milkshake. The "weakest" hardware has nearly always won each console generation so the Wii winning isn't a surprise by that measure. The tech has never been as important as appeal to the broader market.
I agree that the market is growing but I don't think it's true for consoles. If I had to guess, the Wii was the top of the bell curve, and we're going to see decline from here on out.
Unless the concept of the "console" is reinvented and manages to attract the casual market again. Maybe VR will do that. Maybe streaming. Who knows?
Mobile is somewhat a fad, because many (not all) mobile gamers don't give a shit about actually playing their games. For a lot of those people, if they never played another game in their life they would be sad for about a day and then they'd do other stuff.
Wii was a fad in the same way. Doesn't matter where those customers went. They came on for Wii and stopped caring quickly.
Those said, the only real crisis console gaming faces is AAA development, which is pretty much a car, already driven off a cliff and about to crash into the ground and explode.
Wii was a fad in the same way. Doesn't matter where those customers went. They came on for Wii and stopped caring quickly.
Those said, the only real crisis console gaming faces is AAA development, which is pretty much a car, already driven off a cliff and about to crash into the ground and explode.
dream
Member
I don't think it's really comparable. The Wii was a fad, but it died because people decide that siting in front of their TV, Wiimote in hand, was no longer worthwhile. Everyone needs a phone, and everyone will always carry a phone. That's a huge, captive market to target.
Fixed it for you!
I wish this was entirely a joke
This. The original is misleading, the Wii and handhelds throw things off big time.
lyrick
Member
As did all the people that bought PS2s to use as a DVD player...
The Wii was an anomaly bullshit... is fucking sad.
"fucking sad"? Really?
It was an anomaly.
The DS is a handheld, and the handheld market is suffering because mobile has taken over.
The PS2 WAS abnormal in that sense, those were sales that the console market won't ever recover because there are dedicated DVD players now.
lyrick
Member
In what way?
Where did the "160 Million" PS2 owners go?
Or the 160 Million DS owners?
Why are those two not anomalies? Trying to paint Wii owners as an anomaly comes off as just trying to create yet another out group in an already contracting market. Why don't we just pretend that Fifa or Madden players are anomalous?
So the PS2 and PS1 were anomaly as well?
Because in case you don't remember, before PS1 no games console had sold more than 60m yet PS1 easily sold more than 100m, also PS2 sold 150m when no other console has sold that much ever, that's more than the Wii by far.
Also must mean Nintendo DS is an anomaly as well...
Console gaming isn't dead, but that's not to say the market hasn't contracted.
Rockstar literally made over $2 billion with GTA V... Console gaming isn't going anywhere. Some Japanese devs may go away. But Valve, Bungie, Blizzard, Naughty Dog, Bioware, Rockstar, aren't going anywhere.
Konami isn't what it once was, neither were their series. These days, more kids probably know about Minecraft or would play it over any Metal Gear, Castlevania etc. Additionally, if mobile gaming does become the future, they're essentially mobile consoles, won't be long before we get AA or AAA quality games on mobile. The technology is there. They are at like xbox 360 level graphics or better in mobile already.
Konami isn't what it once was, neither were their series. These days, more kids probably know about Minecraft or would play it over any Metal Gear, Castlevania etc. Additionally, if mobile gaming does become the future, they're essentially mobile consoles, won't be long before we get AA or AAA quality games on mobile. The technology is there. They are at like xbox 360 level graphics or better in mobile already.
timetokill
Banned
MrNyar was joking, making a mock graph for this ridiculous viewpoint. seems you fell for it.
I know he was, he said it in his post but it's still something worth considering.
Chû Totoro
Member
Source: statista.com
Video game revenue worldwide by source. 2015 is projection, 2014's Q4 is not full data so part projection too.
See console market. Thanks.
A few companies making a lot of money on very few products is not a sign that the console market is healthy, believe it or not.
Boombox On
Member
A big problem seems to be that only a few companies are making the big money, at the exclusion of everyone else.
There might be more money overall, but it's spreading to fewer hands and fewer games. It's just like the music, movie and book publishing industries not too long ago. Spoiler alert: That can't stay the same forever.
pants
Member
I've had them for awhile.
Trolls don't troll without an audience brah, of course they lurk.