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[Edwardo]

What If they found evidence that proves pats are innocent and it gets goodell fired.

Would pats be the heroes of the NFL?

Would Tom Brady get an award from Obama?

Heroes of America IMO

if not the entire planet

 

[El Topo]

And what if Tom Brady ends up single-handedly defeating ISIS??

That depends. Did he cheat?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

That depends. Did he cheat?

Thinking about this, would atom bombs be considered cheating?

America, World War II Champs*

 

[Vincent Alexander]

This is interesting. Well's claims that they only found the "deflator" text after they interviewed McNally, the Patriots counsel states otherwise.

I think the Patriots claim is that investigators technically had the texts, just hadn't recognized it yet. If true, their argument is the investigators weren't thorough before the interview. Right? But if so, that doesn't change what was found in the texts.

 

[Megalosaro]

Even if the pats were involved in deflating, there is no way Brady's suspension stands. This stuff is solid enough to over turn it imho

 

[Crisco]

What If they found evidence that proves pats are innocent and it gets goodell fired.

Would pats be the heroes of the NFL?

Would Tom Brady get an award from Obama?

You don't lead with "he was joking about weight loss" if you have actual evidence.

 

[methodman]

Jim "THE DEFLATOR" McNally!

 

[Junior Asparagus]

Yeah, the whole "Deflator" nickname thing is kind of stupid, and that's what seems to be getting examined the closest out of this rebuttal.

But the site actually does bring up a long list of doubts and inconsistencies about the Wells report. I have no idea how this is going to proceed, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if an independent arbitrator reduced the penalty on appeal.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I see the union prevailing on appealing Bradys punishment. I can't imagine its consistent with the CBA

 

[spyder_ur]

Even if the pats were involved in deflating, there is no way Brady's suspension stands. This stuff is solid enough to over turn it imho

I think it is pretty unlikely at this point that Brady actually sits for 4 games this year, based on the Pats' stubbornness in fighting it, the overreach of the suspension given other suspensions and the evidence, and the recent success of players (including one of Brady's own lawyers) in appealing their suspensions and getting them reduced or eliminated entirely.

That's not really a comment on guilt or innocence, just that I think the punishment is likely to be lessened.

 

[Quotient]

I think the Patriots claim is that investigators technically had the texts, just hadn't recognized it yet. If true, their argument is the investigators weren't thorough before the interview. Right? But if so, that doesn't change what was found in the texts.

You are right they do mention that later in the report.

Another interesting find in the Patriots rebuttal. The Patriots counsel were not informed of the content of the 5th interview, they had no idea it was about the 'deflate' text message until the report was released, it would give credence to the idea that the Patriots were not trying to cover anything up.

Although asked numerous times for the reason for their request for yet another interview with Mr. McNally, the Wells investigators never stated the reason that now appears evident from the Report

 

[Acerac]

LOL

are we really supposed to believe this is really what deflator meant?

Remember, it has absolutely no relation to jokingly saying they'd give Brady a balloon.

That was for a birthday party.

 

[spyder_ur]

You don't lead with "he was joking about weight loss" if you have actual evidence.

I'm guessing you didn't even look at the reponse. They didn't lead with that piece of information. In fact, it's formatted to generally rebut the Wells report point by point as it goes along.

 

[Megalosaro]

Remember, it has absolutely no relation to jokingly saying they'd give Brady a balloon.

That was for a birthday party.

It was their job to prepare his equipment. Could easily be explained as them purposely not configuring the balls to bradys specifications.

 

[NH Apache]

It was their job to prepare his equipment. Could easily be explained as them purposely not configuring the balls to bradys specifications.

Also, IIRC, that comment was directly after the Jets game when the ball was inflated to 15 psi.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I think the Patriots claim is that investigators technically had the texts, just hadn't recognized it yet. If true, their argument is the investigators weren't thorough before the interview. Right? But if so, that doesn't change what was found in the texts.

One of the reasons the Patriots were punished so harshly is that Wells claimed they were not cooperative. The Patriots are explaining exactly why that perception exists.

Potential twist: The arbitrator rules in favor of the Patriots, exonerates them on all charges because of the vagaries and inconsistencies in the report. Then the league sues Wells for putting together such a sloppy report.

 

[Draxal]

One of the reasons the Patriots were punished so harshly is that Wells claimed they were not cooperative. The Patriots are explaining exactly why that perception exists.

Potential twist: The arbitrator rules in favor of the Patriots, exonerates them on all charges because of the vagaries and inconsistencies in the report. Then the league sues Wells for putting together such a sloppy report.

Brady will take it to court, Patriots won't.

 

[Stet]

Remember, it has absolutely no relation to jokingly saying they'd give Brady a balloon.

That was for a birthday party.

And when they said if he pissed them off he'd get a rugby ball they meant they'd play a practical joke by actually giving him a rugby ball, and then they'd all laugh together and give each other noogies. You know, good, clean, non-cheaty fun.

 

[msdstc]

Remember, it has absolutely no relation to jokingly saying they'd give Brady a balloon.

That was for a birthday party.

Not saying i believe it however, if these guys hate brady, they're the ones who prepared the balls and presented them, why wouldn't they joke about screwing him over?

edit- they wouldn't have to cheat, as soon as Tom says, yeah this is good, they pump them after he leaves. again they clearly got pissed at him like a shitty boss.

 

[Skellig Gra]

He did cooperate in attending the interview and answering questions, but he refused to hand over electronic communication, his reasoning being any communication between himself and JJ/McNally would be on their phones and as such his phone wasn't required. It should also be noted that Gostkowski didn't hand over his phone either.

That reasoning is BS. Anyone who has watched Breaking Bad knows about burner phones. And yeah no one cares about kickers /forever alone.

 

[spyder_ur]

That reasoning is BS. Anyone who has watched Breaking Bad knows about burner phones. And yeah no one cares about kickers /forever alone.

These guys aren't drug dealers - get a grip. If they are in the habit of using burner phones, they are really, really bad at it.

And yeah, kickers suck.

 

[Quotient]

I won't speak for the scientific aspect of the Well's report or the Patriots counter, as I haven't read the exponent study in the appendix, but the Patriots do a good job countering the Well's report - I admit the 'deflate' text message counter wasn't the most awe-inspiring argument, but it may be plausible.

For anyone who has read both reports, what were your thoughts?

 

[Skellig Gra]

These guys aren't drug dealers - get a grip. If they are in the habit of using burner phones, they are really, really bad at it.

And yeah, kickers suck.

All I'm saying is its an easily refuted assertion. People can have multiple cell phones.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I won't speak for the scientific aspect of the Well's report or the Patriots counter, as I haven't read the exponent study in the appendix, but the Patriots do a good job countering the Well's report - I admit the 'deflate' text message counter wasn't the most awe-inspiring argument, but it may be plausible.

For anyone who has read both reports, what were your thoughts?

Dude, the entire "report in context" is fucking embarrassing.

I'm pretty much done trying to defend the team, they keep on saying and doing this dumb shit that it's making it impossible to do so.

I will always stand by my original statements, but this shit is just stupid and insulting to my intelligence.

Brady's legacy is fine, the Patriots organisation has "rampant" cheating just as much as everyone else, but they don't go do the stupid shit the Pats do when they get caught.

 

[Blackhead]

I won't speak for the scientific aspect of the Well's report or the Patriots counter, as I haven't read the exponent study in the appendix, but the Patriots do a good job countering the Well's report - I admit the 'deflate' text message counter wasn't the most awe-inspiring argument, but it may be plausible.

For anyone who has read both reports, what were your thoughts?

My thoughts are the NFL and Well are railroading the investigation with presumed Patriots guilt. From reading both report and response I don't think Brady set up a conspiracy to deflate balls. NFL in particular are very incompetent; I don't understand how they didn't follow proper procedure even after they were supposedly set up to keep the Patriots under observation for that particular game. Its quite clear that in many NFL games, not just the Patriots, balls are variously high or low PSI and also no player or referee really gives a shit if the balls are still close to the required range. This is a mountain out of a mole hill by media and fans

P.s. the Patriots response should get its own thread

 

[spyder_ur]

I won't speak for the scientific aspect of the Well's report or the Patriots counter, as I haven't read the exponent study in the appendix, but the Patriots do a good job countering the Well's report - I admit the 'deflate' text message counter wasn't the most awe-inspiring argument, but it may be plausible.

For anyone who has read both reports, what were your thoughts?

I think the Wells report was certainly (shockingly) well-researched but flawed, particularly in how it seemed to presume guilt. I do think the texts were fairly incriminating because they at least showed that Brady cared very much about the inflation levels and liked them low.

The part of just presuming that McNally deflated 12 footballs in 100 seconds in the bathroom (and not taking into account the vastly more logical explanation of taking a piss) shows this well.

The Pats response does a good job of pointing all of that out, although I think it's weirdly poorly written in some spots and poorly presented (a WordPress blog, really?). The takedown of the Pats supposed 'lack of cooperation' (along with the supporting documents not included in the Wells report for some reason) is pretty compelling. I think I would have just preferred them to say all this in appeals/court/whatever, but I have to be a little swayed by how hard and vigilantly they are fighting this. Either they feel like they really not guilty or they are good actors all on the same page. I'm leaning towards the first (that they 'feel' not guilty, not that they are not guilty, if that makes sense) and if that's so then they should say and do what they want.

Really though, I don't have any idea what happened, and we are at the he said-she said stage of things. No matter what the punishment is 100% over the top and reflects an NFL leadership that is ego-driven, lacking judgment, draconian, and inept.

 

[Megalosaro]

I won't speak for the scientific aspect of the Well's report or the Patriots counter, as I haven't read the exponent study in the appendix, but the Patriots do a good job countering the Well's report - I admit the 'deflate' text message counter wasn't the most awe-inspiring argument, but it may be plausible.

For anyone who has read both reports, what were your thoughts?

I think that there is no way Brady serves his suspension just based on lawyering alone.

 

[chadskin]

SportsCenter: THIS JUST IN: The NFLPA has filed an appeal of Tom Brady's 4-game suspension. http://t.co/qoQ2WJmeTq

.

 

[Parch]

I think Brady should be sent to Football Deflate Rehab. The NFL can make a reality TV show out of it.

Then he should have to go on the "Apology Tour" where he goes to each NFL city to hold an apology press conference followed by a lengthy Q&A. The ratings would be great. The one in New England would especially be sentimental.

 

[demosthenes]

The defense is a joke. Can't believe the Patriots don't just own up to this.

 

[Quotient]

The defense is a joke. Can't believe the Patriots don't just own up to this.

What part of their defense did you think was weak?

EDIT: I found their response to the 'deflate' text message weak, but their response to the other text messages seemed reasonable to me.

 

[demosthenes]

What part of their defense did you think was weak?

EDIT: I found their response to the 'deflate' text message weak, but their response to the other text messages seemed reasonable to me.

Only heard a hand full of them on my drive home. Deflate was pathetic. Brady calling
g him the next morning to see how he was hosting up was also laughable. They brought up like 3 more that are just insulting to hear.

 

[Quotient]

Only heard a hand full of them on my drive home. Deflate was pathetic. Brady calling
g him the next morning to see how he was hosting up was also laughable. They brought up like 3 more that are just insulting to hear.

Here is the Patriots response to Brady calling JJ:

The report relies on the increased level of communications between Mr. Brady and Mr. Jastremski in the days following the AFC Championship Game even though these communications show no knowledge of football tampering. As fully explained to the investigators, there were several readily understandable reasons for increased communications between Mr. Brady and Mr. Jastremski in the days following the AFC Championship Game.

First, the media frenzy over deflated footballs started the day after the AFC Championship Game. Mr. Brady is used to the limelight and to critics; Mr. Jastremski is not. Since Mr. Jastremski prepared the footballs, it was reasonable to expect that this media attention would focus on him. It was also reasonable to expect that (as happened) Mr. Jastremski’s boss would question Mr. Jastremski to see what, if anything, he knew. Mr. Brady’s reaching out to Mr. Jastremski to see how he was holding up in these circumstances is not only understandable, but commendable.

Second, the team had just won the AFC Championship and was headed to the Super Bowl. Footballs needed to be prepared for the Super Bowl. Since this was Mr. Jastremski’s first Super Bowl experience since assuming the role as game football preparer, it is not surprising he and Mr. Brady spoke a lot about football preparation during the days after the AFC Championship Game. Issues that they needed to discuss included: how footballs would be prepared (there were several different ways used for preparation during the season, sometimes dependent on weather); how many more than the required number for the game should be prepared so that, as he always does, Mr. Brady could select game footballs from among a larger number of prepared footballs; when, if at all, would the footballs be available in Foxborough for practice; when were they to be sent to Arizona; when would they be available for use in practice in Arizona; etc. All of these discussion topics were triggered by winning the AFC Championship and needed to be dealt with in the days following that win.

The investigators could have inquired of the Patriots former employee whose responsibility included preparing game balls whether his communications with Mr. Brady had increased during the time period leading up to the prior Super Bowls. They did not.

In short, increased Brady-Jastremski communications in the days following the AFC Championship Game do not make it more likely than not that there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing. They are totally consistent with complete innocence. It is only speculation to conclude otherwise. Nonetheless, it forms part of the report’s stated rationale for its findings against Mr. Brady.

The Well's report believes that communication as suspicious:

The timing and frequency of the telephone communications between
Jastremski and McNally, as well as Jastremski and Brady immediately
after suspicions of ball tampering were raised by NFL Security and in
media reports.

I felt the Patriot's reasoning for that particular communication reasonable.

 

[greepoman]

The part of just presuming that McNally deflated 12 footballs in 100 seconds in the bathroom (and not taking into account the vastly more logical explanation of taking a piss) shows this well.

Yeah whatever would lead them to think that...

McNally told officials that he dropped the bag of balls to his left and then used a urinal to his right. That is when the officials told McNally there are no urinals in that bathroom.

Almost like he was busy doing something else besides pissing not to notice...

 

[Enron]

nfl should increase brady's suspension on appeal just because.

 

[Fenderputty]

I think this whole thing is overblown and cheating is rampant in the NFL. I think the majority of people upset at the Pat's are hypocrites. At least until the NFL does something about PED's. Which they won't so ...

Anyway ... even with all the above, I still think that crap the Pat's released today was a giant steaming pile of poop. They should be ashamed for attempting to dismiss the texts as out of context jabs at a man losing weight. I mean what a fucking joke.

 

[Stinkles]

Yeah whatever would lead them to think that...

It was a WOMAN'S bathroom!

 

[MechDX]

If there was any justice in this league Brady would be suspended for the season, Bellechik for 6 games and the team loses their next 3 first round picks.

 

[Roberto Duran]

I think it is funny that the Colts tampered with the intercepted football and maybe the only ones who tampered with any football at that game.

 

[Fenderputty]

If there was any justice in this league Brady would be suspended for the season, Bellechik for 6 games and the team loses their next 3 first round picks.

The fact that any football fan can say this with a straight face is a flat out joke to me.

 

[Stinkles]

The fact that any football fan can say this with a straight face is a flat out joke to me.

Everything is jokes in New England.

 

[Fenderputty]

Everything is jokes in NFL.

FTFY.

 

[DrForester]

The defense is a joke. Can't believe the Patriots don't just own up to this.

Their explanation about the ball science seems a heck of a lot more thorough than the Wells report.

 

[JABEE]

If there was any justice in this league Brady would be suspended for the season, Bellechik for 6 games and the team loses their next 3 first round picks.

.

 

[Beefy]

This thread always lightens up a shit day.

 

[Stinkles]

This thread always lightens up a shit day.

34 pages of Pats fans not caring about it because it's overblown jealousy from haters.

 

[riotous]

I think this whole thing is overblown and cheating is rampant in the NFL. I think the majority of people upset at the Pat's are hypocrites. At least until the NFL does something about PED's. Which they won't so .

Like testing players and fining them or suspending them for several games, up to an entire season, or indefinitely in a few cases?

How is that not "doing something" about PED's?

 

[JABEE]

34 pages of Pats fans not caring about it because it's overblown jealousy from haters.

I am happy to oblige! I hate the Pats!

 

[Fenderputty]

Like testing players and fining them or suspending them for several games, up to an entire season, or indefinitely in a few cases?

How is that not "doing something" about PED's?

Baseball finds more PED use dude.

 

[JCizzle]

Like testing players and fining them or suspending them for several games, up to an entire season, or indefinitely in a few cases?

How is that not "doing something" about PED's?

Do the Seahawks still exist as an organization? Is Cheatin Pete still the coach? Taking care of that would demonstrate a commitment to taking care of PED's. Until then, the NFL is tacitly supporting their use.