Sanctuary
Member
Hey look, I can play this game too. I'll pick a shot that helps my case while ignoring the others!
It's like some of you have never actually played a game on PC before.
Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
- Thread starter Jigolo
- Start date
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Hey look, I can play this game too. I'll pick a shot that helps my case while ignoring the others!
It's like some of you have never actually played a game on PC before.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Hey look, I can play this game too. I'll pick a shot that helps my case while ignoring the others!
It's like some of you have never actually played a game on PC before.
Noooot really...
Hey look, I can play this game too. I'll pick a shot that helps my case while ignoring the others!
It's like some of you have never actually played a game on PC before.
wat
icecold1983
Member
Hey look, I can play this game too. I'll pick a shot that helps my case while ignoring the others!
It's like some of you have never actually played a game on PC before.
lol this isnt helping your case
Sanctuary
Member
Do you even know what's being argued here?
viveks86
Member
I really think both of you are right and are simply focusing on the aspect that favors your argument. There is increased complexity in geometry AND increased detail in textures and shaders. Both of which are the kind of stuff one would expect moving up from low or medium to ultra.
Idk how theyre not getting what you are saying
viveks86
Member
They are arguing about the geometry on the bottom windows in that shot, right? MaLDo said that the geometry has been downgraded, which is right, because the windows have less polygons and less depth/bump. However, Sanctuary is saying that it is the shaders and textures that are different, which is wrong, because the windows clearly have less polygons.
Aww damn, the Geforce logo and the "The way it's meant to be played." kind of ruins the wallpapers. Should be easy to retouch, it is on black background.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Hey look, I can play this game too. I'll pick a shot that helps my case while ignoring the others!
It's like some of you have never actually played a game on PC before.
Some far rendering, high quality HBAO would add a lot to the worse looking image. I wonder if the missing geometry is still in, but has aggressive LOD. Witcher 2 had a lot of that; little details on buildings and tents that didn't appear until you were pretty close. The MeshDistanceScale= command wasn't capped, so it was fixable.
When i think geometry, im thinking the shapes of the buildings and the layout. Oh well.
Sanctuary
Member
I'm saying the shaders and textures are different, because they are. Too many people on this site have an "all or nothing" "black and white" view when it comes to reading comprehension too. I said that the geometry was MOSTLY the same. That doesn't imply that I think it's identical and that nothing was changed.
EatChildren pretty much summed it up.
viveks86
Member
Ugh I need a cryo-chamber and a 3 night reservation. :/
Hey look, I can play this game too. I'll pick a shot that helps my case while ignoring the others!
It's like some of you have never actually played a game on PC before.
The geometry in that shot is noticeably different as well. It looks like different LOD levels to me. You can very clearly see more modeled details on the bridge.
Well, no, geometry is any (2D?)/3D object that is made out of polygons or other geometric shapes, such as triangles. I think triangles are the main ones, though. So it works for any objects, be it the main structure of the house, any window ledges, door frames, steps... etc. it has. And it continues for the rest of the objects that make up the world.
viveks86
Member
I would consider something to be different geometry if it even had a single added edge loop. These models are definitely the same base topology, but you can easily tell that changes have been made.
TransTrender
Gold Member
Man, it's like kids these days have no idea what bullshots are, and even worse, they act surprised when the final product is not as the fulffers described.
I see where you are coming from, but those two particular windows at the bottom do not have an almost similar geometry to those from the earlier trailer. However, if you were to argue that the top three windows have an almost similar geometry, then you would be right, because the geometry of those ones has not changed much.
Thing is, geometry = polygon counts, which use more processing power than other things, so it is usually one of the first things (polycount) that you decrease when you optimize for performance.
That Eredin wallpaper.
Makes me laugh every time I realize a hot guy is under that mask
Sanctuary
Member
I hope you realize that almost all of the bullshots people get in an uproar over are regarding console specific releases.
TransTrender
Gold Member
That ship clearly sailed with Halo back in the day. There are no excuses.
viveks86
Member
Who is Eredin? :3
Primethius
Banned
King of the Wild Hunt.
viveks86
Member
Primethius
Banned
I've never played a witcher game
You don't really need to know any more then that about him going into TW3.
The info about him and his riders is pretty well dispersed across TW1 and TW2. The last time we saw him was in TW1 and he looked quite different then he does in TW3.
viveks86
Member
Yeah I'll probably just read up EatChildren's recap and those 2 retrospective videos before I start. Seems to have the right amount of detail to give me some added context.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm not convinced the geometry hasn't been downgraded because yeah, it's a good first place to go if you want to optimise performance. In some places geometry has been objectively removed for the worse, like the corner wall at the entrance to Novigrad. Stuff like that would suggest they culled geometry details across the board for performance.
But I'm also curious how much geometry is tethered to LOD. REDengine 3 is still based on REDengine 2, and while I'm sure handles some parts very differently despite using the same middleware (foliage has probably been massively overhauled, as has terrain streaming), there's bound to be some similarities in how it handles data streaming and LOD. Mesh LOD and detail culling is in and quite aggressive. Here's an example of TW2.
MeshDistanceScale=1.0 is TW2's "Ultra". MeshDistanceScale=4.0 is an easy tweak.
Big and small details are added, from massive parts of the tents, to little rocks coming out the side of the tower.
But I'm also curious how much geometry is tethered to LOD. REDengine 3 is still based on REDengine 2, and while I'm sure handles some parts very differently despite using the same middleware (foliage has probably been massively overhauled, as has terrain streaming), there's bound to be some similarities in how it handles data streaming and LOD. Mesh LOD and detail culling is in and quite aggressive. Here's an example of TW2.
MeshDistanceScale=1.0 is TW2's "Ultra". MeshDistanceScale=4.0 is an easy tweak.
Big and small details are added, from massive parts of the tents, to little rocks coming out the side of the tower.
Sanctuary
Member
I've watched http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-PC-237266/Videos/Witcher-3-4k-BLA-1158921/ four times now. I think the most glaring issue is how utterly inconsistent the game world looks. Some shots are breathtaking, while others thoroughly scream "thanks consoles!". Some of the architecture looks great, and similar to the before and after gifs, while a lot of it looks like it's made of cardboard.
I find it funny how in many respects, the default Skyrim on PC still looks better when it comes to towns. Much of it probably has to do with the color palette though. What they used in TW3 isn't helping it look better. It's doing the opposite and drawing attention to the downgrade even more.
I find it funny how in many respects, the default Skyrim on PC still looks better when it comes to towns. Much of it probably has to do with the color palette though. What they used in TW3 isn't helping it look better. It's doing the opposite and drawing attention to the downgrade even more.
A little over twice. Im a succesful professional though, im no longer worried about spending $400. Ill happily pay more for the best experience. Not to mention that my pc does a lot more than play video games.
Why would there be a downgrade in geometry on PC? This is crazy.
TransTrender
Gold Member
Because their code management is shit and decided to throw in the towel between the console and PC trunks.
Agreed. Reminds me of all those ridiculous Uncharted 4 comparisons.
WordsintheWater
Member
A bunch of the shots that are being compared are using the PS4 version with the share button, which puts out fuzzy photos. The game definitely looks better then that on people's screens and the Pc version will look even better then that.
So Marcin claimed few weeks ago that PC version maxed out will look like SoD trailer and now he is claiming that PC version will be different from console version only in draw distance and hairworks (resolution and framerate is something that expected in PC version always)?
Yeah CDPR is handling this like a Pro.
Yeah CDPR is handling this like a Pro.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
The sword of destiny trailer is pretty damned similar to how the final game looks. A couple scenes excepted. Also the Wild Hunt scene being completely overhauled.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Last The Witcher 2 comparison I swear (until I don't), but a simple example of how even without mods some simple CFG tweaks beyond what the Ultra settings can go a long way.
Ultra
Tweaked (Ultra+)
Ultra
Tweaked (Ultra+)
universalmind
Member
That guy seems to say anything to appease.
We will see next week but i am really disappointed in CDPR and i expected more from them when PC version was in question. But i guess that is what you get when small studio is doing multiplatform release.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
GIF'd
Similar tweaks should be possible in Wild Hunt.
Similar tweaks should be possible in Wild Hunt.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Last The Witcher 2 comparison I swear (until I don't), but a simple example of how even without mods some simple CFG tweaks beyond what the Ultra settings can go a long way.
Ultra
Tweaked (Ultra+)
Nice. Same tweaks as you showed me with the foliage and the mesh?
Can't wait for people to tweak Wild Hunt.
Also, witch HBAO+ seemingly missing, even when activated, has me thinking maybe there is a glitch or something pre day one patch that even when turned on in the UI, it does nothing? Maybe that's why CDPR took the comparisons down?
Last The Witcher 2 comparison I swear (until I don't), but a simple example of how even without mods some simple CFG tweaks beyond what the Ultra settings can go a long way.
Ultra
Tweaked (Ultra+)
Please, keep posting - I played TW2 on release and totally forgot about this.
Fingers crossed that it's the same situation here. Yes, it won't completely remedy the issue but if we can solve the distracting LOD pop-in that I notice on a lot of the PS4/Xbox footage, that would be wonderful.
icecold1983
Member
Yeah they are 100% full of shit. Dude explicitly stated the vgx graphics were able to be fully replicated in the final game. Bunch of jokers.
ColonialRaptor
Member
There is absolutely no way to quantify the truth of these claims or not until we've all got the game and can check how it really looks on screen rather than stupid online videos and screenshots from online videos.
ISee
Member
But... Witcher 3 is coming on tuesday. Do you expect me to not talk about the witcher 3 untill tuesday? That is insane!
Sanctuary
Member
Clearly TW2 was downgraded. Your images are proof enough.
icecold1983
Member
You can believe their crap about broken builds, the situation is pretty clear to me at this point. History tends to reprat itself
ColonialRaptor
Member
Last The Witcher 2 comparison I swear (until I don't), but a simple example of how even without mods some simple CFG tweaks beyond what the Ultra settings can go a long way.
Ultra
Tweaked (Ultra+)
I can see the difference here and it's a good one but it doesn't really make THAT much difference.
I'm sure we'll be able to tweak it after launch, there will be a tweak thread and we'll be able to make the game look amazing on PC.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Yep, same ones.
My gut says stuff will be engine hard capped in Wild Hunt like The Witcher 2, but there should be room for improvements. Taking a look at the XML details and their standard Ultra presets...
<Entry overrideGroup="LevelOfDetail" varId="DecalsHideDistance" value="80"/> This is the distance decals, like blood stains, fade out of vision.
<Entry varId="GrassDensity" value="2400.0"/> How dense grass clumps are rendered. Wild Hunt uses procedural rendering for foliage. Might increase number of grass clumps sampled in each instance, but may not have an effect if they're painted to cap at 2400.
<Entry varId="GlobalOceanTesselationFactor" value="64"/> Theoretically increases tessellation sampling of water.
<Entry varId="CascadeShadowDistanceScale3" value="1.5"/> Standard shadow rendering distance.
<Entry overrideGroup="Rendering/SpeedTree" varId="FoliageShadowDistanceScale" value="54.0"/> Shadow rendering distance of (or on) foliage.
<Entry varId="TerrainErrorMetricMultiplier" value="6"/>
<Entry varId="TerrainScreenSpaceErrorThreshold" value="1.6"/> This and the above might increase accuracy and complexity of screen space reflections or something to do with terrain streaming.
HairWorksAALevel=8 Quality of anti-aliasing on hairworks.
MeshRenderingDistanceScale=1.0f
MeshLODDistanceScale=1.0f These two are like what I posted above, scaling rendering distance and LOD for mesh details.
Well, you can't overhaul the engine rendering
. But I think the difference is pretty huge, especially in motion, and how it severely reduces pop-in. Especially with stuff like foliage. Detail pop-in on mesh is sensible for optimisation. The tents are still there, one way or the other. But foliage pop-in always looks worse, as in some cases you don't even get distance low quality LOD variants, you just get nothing. In those images the tweaked are forced to use low quality distant foliage, but the foliage is there as opposed to not at all.- Status