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[Fuz]

Another sad thing is that moderators on CDPR forums are closing any downgrade thread and banning anybody who accuse CDPR that they lied.

It's a sad day indeed. As much as I'll probably like the game, I've lost a bit of respect for them due entirely to PR. They've had to make difficult decisions with their lofty budget and grand showing this time around. That was not as much the case with their previous games where development was more true to spirit.

Now they're deep within a shell of BS just like any other fat, bloated dev. I just can't stop rolling my eyes at these PR statements. The trust is broken in exchange for some hype, units sold. They know what's going on; they're closing threads and taking down vids etc, releasing statements left and right etc. If they really wanted to address this issue - have they clarified whether this issue is legitimate? no - they could have. But because it isn't going to destroy their numbers, they shrug it off.

Let's say this were an even smaller issue than it is. Is it still wise to play ignorant? Not if you care about each and every sale. What's the harm in clarifying, in being straightforward? I mean, yeah, it's too late now. There's already a "downgrade" and they've already been denying it for awhile. But the sales they would've gained from being honest early on are nothing compared to those of hype, which means sales are above the truth and/or the validity of fan questions. These problems continue to fester with every big new title regardless of dev intent or sales or PR shyster-ing.

This will all come at an enormous cost eventually, maybe not for CDPR specifically but the industry will not weather this for another 20 or 30 years. Truth be told, I would savor being wrong.

I've got banned one month just for linking this:
http://whatifgaming.com/developer-i...-from-2013-list-of-all-features-taken-out-why
on their forums.
What bothers me... the game is out in three days and we still haven't seen anything maxed out. Why is that? It's certainly weird.
In the end, what could have had something that should have been a huge step forward for PC gaming, but we basically got a console port.

 

[Chariot]

They can delete them and punish users who broke rules. Here on GAF we have this thread that works just fine like many others. But it is easier to close thread

Well, I guess we don't have a lot of the hateful hooligans in the first place. Mind you that the cdpr forum is the mainhub for angry people of all kinds to complain to the developers. Some of them actually have points, but a huge chunk of them looks like conspiracy theorists or trolls. In my eyes this is a "that's why we can't have nice things"-situation.

 

[dex3108]

Well, I guess we don't have a lot of the hateful hooligans in the first place. Mind you that the cdpr forum is the mainhub for angry people of all kinds to complain to the developers. Some of them actually have points, but a huge chunk of them looks like conspiracy theorists or trolls. In my eyes this is a "that's why we can't have nice things"-situation.

It is not easy to be moderator especially on official forums for popular games. Things get harder before launch especially when there is " issue" like this and developer doesn't want to clear things. But that doesn't mean that they should shut down every thread where people who are spending their money ask for answers.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Why would there be a downgrade in geometry on PC? This is crazy.

Hah hah hah.


People really have no idea how games are done. Or more exactly, how companies work.

The geometry is integral to the assets, to the terrain. To the "file" is opened in their world editor. They have to downgrade the geometry in pc because they weren't going to make two versions of the entire (huuge) game world, one for consoles and one for pc, with the pc version having more trees, more bushes, more detailed houses, different rock formations, beter done fences, etc. That would be close to make two games, and making a single game is enough expensive as it is.
Think how maybe the separation of the two theoretical versions of the initial mesh creation should have done 18 months ago. But, in these 18 months they still have to put some more stuff in the world because the game isn't finished, modify villages, forests, caves, they have to tweak things, then they have to tweak some more to do some to optimization and bugfixing (yes, geometry also need fixing). So you would have to make all that work done after the division two times, one for the pc-version world and other for the console version. That's super inefficient.

Notice how most of the times the differences between pc and console version of multiplatfrom games is in the textures (not counting stuff like resolution, AA, framerate) and LoD. Why? Because LoD is just a number if the config, like resolution, and textures because it's easy to always work with one set of textures and when you are going to build the console version, launch a script to compress them with a bit higher ratio. But doing different models and a more detailed world for pc, and a simplified version for consoles is a ton more of work.

You could think that maybe they should have focused on the "higher" pc assets and only at the end of development make the console versions, but the reality is more complicated than that. You have to iterate and iterate and iterate to get something a) working, b)good and polished. You can't wait until the last two months to make a second version of the world for consoles,

Companies exist to maximize profits. So game companies try to make the a single version of their games (minimize costs) and then maximize profits by releasing of the maximum number of platforms (pc, xbox one, ps4).

And let's be honest, the game would have to be half as ambitious if it was done only for pc.


Welcome to multi platform games. Enjoy your stay.

 

[Sanctuary]

It is not easy to be moderator especially on official forums for popular games. Things get harder before launch especially when there is " issue" like this and developer doesn't want to clear things. But that doesn't mean that they should shut down every thread where people who are spending their money ask for answers.

It doesn't look like they are shutting down threads because people are simply asking questions. They are shutting them down because they inevitably just focus on the downgrade and arguing about whether or not there really was one or if CDPR lied. Kind of like this thread, but with a lot more hostility.

People really have no idea how games are done. Or more exactly, how companies work.

You missed "some" at the start of your sentence, and the rest of your post has been stated multiple times throughout this thread, and more concisely.

 

[Kaze2212]

I found something interesting, this is from an "old" build:

(Around last december this screen was released I believe.)

It would be interesting to see this exact same scene in the retail version be it PS4 or PC, becasue the foliage looks great here.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Don't know why it's so hard to upload a video on youtube with this quality for gaming sites.

 

[NotUS]

It doesn't look like they are shutting down threads because people are simply asking questions. They are shutting them down because they inevitably just focus on the downgrade and arguing about whether or not there really was one or if CDPR lied. Kind of like this thread, but with a lot more hostility.



You missed "some" at the start of your sentence, and the rest of your post has been stated multiple times throughout this thread, and more concisely.

Exactly.

In defence of the mods on the official forums, they have allowed multiple downgrade threads to exist for a long time for pages and pages.

The only reason threads are being recently closed is because there are maybe 10 of the same people repeating the same argument over and over and over and over. I think they got message after 100 pages, and have basically said, wait for release.

I'm certain a graphics thread will exist once the game is actually launched then people can argue/compare to their hearts content, obviously without trading insults.

 

[MaLDo]

Hah hah hah.


People really have no idea how games are done. Or more exactly, how companies work.

The geometry is integral to the assets, to the terrain. To the "file" is opened in their world editor. They have to downgrade the geometry in pc because they weren't going to make two versions of the entire (huuge) game world, one for consoles and one for pc, with the pc version having more trees, more bushes, more detailed houses, different rock formations, beter done fences, etc. That would be close to make two games, and making a single game is enough expensive as it is.
Think how maybe the separation of the two theoretical versions of the initial mesh creation should have done 18 months ago. But, in these 18 months they still have to put some more stuff in the world because the game isn't finished, modify villages, forests, caves, they have to tweak things, then they have to tweak some more to do some to optimization and bugfixing (yes, geometry also need fixing). So you would have to make all that work done after the division two times, one for the pc-version world and other for the console version. That's super inefficient.

Notice how most of the times the differences between pc and console version of multiplatfrom games is in the textures (not counting stuff like resolution, AA, framerate) and LoD. Why? Because LoD is just a number if the config, like resolution, and textures because it's easy to always work with one set of textures and when you are going to build the console version, launch a script to compress them with a bit higher ratio. But doing different models and a more detailed world for pc, and a simplified version for consoles is a ton more of work.

You could think that maybe they should have focused on the "higher" pc assets and only at the end of development make the console versions, but the reality is more complicated than that. You have to iterate and iterate and iterate to get something a) working, b)good and polished. You can't wait until the last two months to make a second version of the world for consoles,

Companies exist to maximize profits. So game companies try to make the a single version of their games (minimize costs) and then maximize profits by releasing of the maximum number of platforms (pc, xbox one, ps4).

And let's be honest, the game would have to be half as ambitious if it was done only for pc.


Welcome to multi platform games. Enjoy your stay.

Not at all. If you use LODS 0-5 in pc ultra settings and levels 1-5 in high and consoles, you can show very different polycount with same assets. Project CARS does it with the cars.

 

[Sanctuary]

I found something interesting, this is from an old build:


(Around last december this screen was released I believe.)

It would be interesting to see this exact same scene in the retail version be it PS4 or PC, becasue the foliage looks great here.

This shot exemplifies inconsistency. The quality is all over the map here.

 

[Ostinatto]

Don't know why it's so hard to upload a video on youtube with this quality for gaming sites.

Horse fear level huh?

 

[Derp]

I found something interesting, this is from an old build:


(Around last december this screen was released I believe.)

It would be interesting to see this exact same scene in the retail version be it PS4 or PC, becasue the foliage looks great here.

Happen to know how old that is? I'm also interested in seeng what that looks like now as the grass actually looks good.

 

[Kaze2212]

Happen to know how old that is? I'm also interested in seeng what that looks like now as the grass actually looks good.

Like I said around December last year.

Edit:
December 15th I found out through image search - lol.

 

[BigTnaples]

I dunno, I somehow doubt they removed whatever feature was making the grass look better. Time will tell if it is simply HBAO+ or something else entirely, but I can't see them taking out a broad sweeping effect like that. At least not completely (Enabled through .ini or something)

 

[Genio88]

Now that is just depressing.

Is that Xbox one vs Xbox 360 comparison?

 

[Denton]

Is that Xbox one vs Xbox 360 comparison?

dat hyperbole

and all because of different time of day and weather

 

[Easy_D]

dat hyperbole

and all because of different time of day and weather

Not to mention that both images are super shitty quality

 

[Bornstellar]

I found something interesting, this is from an "old" build:


(Around last december this screen was released I believe.)

It would be interesting to see this exact same scene in the retail version be it PS4 or PC, becasue the foliage looks great here.

Its indisputable that foliage has seen a massive downgrade in terms of resolution and shadowing.

 

[Kaze2212]

Its indisputable that foliage has seen a massive downgrade in terms of resolution and shadowing.

The thing is that seemed to have happened between this screenshot and the gameplay footage released in January. So it is actually a pretty recent "downgrade" (don't wanna cast my final judgment before seeing it after it's official PC release).

 

[BigTnaples]

Its indisputable that foliage has seen a massive downgrade in terms of resolution and shadowing.

Well I think you are using the word downgrade a little liberally in this instance.

For all we know, that same scene at 4K Uber with HBAO+ looks identical to that.

 

[nOoblet16]

I found something interesting, this is from an "old" build:


(Around last december this screen was released I believe.)

It would be interesting to see this exact same scene in the retail version be it PS4 or PC, becasue the foliage looks great here.

There have been cutbacks somewhere, whether it is to do with the quality of the foliage or the shadowing we'll know soon enough...but that particular scene has foliage that looks more or less exactly like it does now but with sharpness turned to 10.

 

[oceanskie]

reading through this thread gives me- argh!

 

[BigTnaples]

There have been cutbacks somewhere, whether it is to do with the quality of the foliage or the shadowing we'll know soon enough...but that particular scene has foliage that looks more or less exactly like it does now but with sharpness turned to 10.

The sharpness filter from 2013, or maybe a slightly less drastic version, is still in the game, but disabled by default. That may be in play there.


The biggest difference between grass is the subtle shading. It's a small enough detail, but it makes a huge difference. Especially in a game with so much grass..
I am holding onto the theory that HBAO+ is glitched in the review build, and only SSAO is working, even when HBAO+ is enabled in the UI.


That would explain the differences in foliage, as well as CDPR stating there was "something wrong" with the graphics of the review builds, enough so that it warranted taking down the videos.

In comparison.

From Nvidias own site...

Familiar situation?

HardOCP

 

[Daverid]

I am holding onto the theory that HBAO+ is glitched in the review build, and only SSAO is working, even when HBAO+ is enabled in the UI.

That would explain the differences in foliage, as well as CDPR stating there was "something wrong" with the graphics of the review builds, enough so that it warranted taking down the videos.

Yea absolutely, I'm holding out for that as well. We've seen before in games like FC4 how much of a big difference HBAO+ can make (Even VS SSAO. Edit: Ah you added the comparisons, shows it then) to vegetation, and if the HBAO+ functions correctly and applies itself to ALL foliage, it should make a big difference.

If the Draw Distance can be scaled to at least what we saw in the 35 minute demo (Even if it requires INI tweaks), then I'm like 99% happy. The great big dirty layer of "fog" in the distance obscuring those wonderful long distance details (which existed in all the demos pre-2015), is the only part that's really still upsetting me.

Sure, the game still won't match up to what we saw in the VGX Trailer, and my opinion of CDPR has certainly deteriorated due to their PR bullshitting, but the above stuff being true/possible would cause the game to completely match what I was expecting after seeing the E3 2014 footage, it'll still be a worthy, reasonable jump above consoles and absolutely the most gorgeous game to date.

 

[ScepticMatt]

gifs

From an artstyle standpoint, I highly prefer the less sharpened and graded new shots.
Other than the last one, assets seem largely identical in those gifs
The lack of a good abient occlusion is really hurting the *new* shots, though.

Comparing scenes under drastically different lighting conditions gives me a headache.

A headache, or a good chuckle

Wow, what a massive downgrade! They removed the sun!

 

[ufo8mycat]

Graphics are more then good enough for me. Cannot wait to play and enjoy this game.

 

[-SD-]

It would be interesting to see this exact same scene in the retail version be it PS4 or PC, because the foliage looks great here.

Grass looks terrible.

 

[DOWN]

The sharpness filter from 2013, or maybe a slightly less drastic version, is still in the game, but disabled by default. That may be in play there.


The biggest difference between grass is the subtle shading. It's a small enough detail, but it makes a huge difference. Especially in a game with so much grass..
I am holding onto the theory that HBAO+ is glitched in the review build, and only SSAO is working, even when HBAO+ is enabled in the UI.


That would explain the differences in foliage, as well as CDPR stating there was "something wrong" with the graphics of the review builds, enough so that it warranted taking down the videos.





In comparison.




From Nvidias own site...




Familiar situation?

HardOCP

Uh why HBAO+High look almost the same as the shadowing in the Off pic? Is that supposed to be more accurate? The plants one the left have almost no shadowing compared to the middle two selections

 

[Sanctuary]

Uh why HBAO+High look almost the same as the shadowing in the Off pic? Is that supposed to be more accurate? The plants one the left have almost no shadowing compared to the middle two selections

What? It's not supposed to be encased in darkness, and it looks quite a bit more natural than the first shot.

 

[Genio88]

Another weird thing is that Nvidia usually posts in their site comparative images of games which have exclusive Nvidia's features, like they did for example with Far Cry 4, posting screens with HBAO+ on/off, TXAA on/off etc... Nothing like that has been done about The Witcher 3 so far, and the game will be released in 2 days.

Plus HBAO+ shouldn't be so demanding

 

[BigTnaples]

Another weird thing is that Nvidia usually posts in their site comparative images of games which have exclusive Nvidia's features, like they did for example with Far Cry 4, posting screens with HBAO+ on/off, TXAA on/off etc... Nothing like that has been done about The Witcher 3 so far, and the game will be released in 2 days.

Well thats not weird. That will be posted on the 18th. Andy, a Gafer here that is the person who does those tweak guides, stated as much in the System requirements thread.

So we should have an in depth look at the tech in about 48 or so hours. Just in time for the unlock.

 

[Easy_D]

Another weird thing is that Nvidia usually posts in their site comparative images of games which have exclusive Nvidia's features, like they did for example with Far Cry 4, posting screens with HBAO+ on/off, TXAA on/off etc... Nothing like that has been done about The Witcher 3 so far, and the game will be released in 2 days.

Plus HBAO+ shouldn't be so demanding

What if they don't have the drivers ready yet :lol

 

[Genio88]

Well thats not weird. That will be posted on the 18th. Andy, a Gafer here that is the person who does those tweak guides, stated as much in the System requirements thread.

So we should have an in depth look at the tech in about 48 or so hours. Just in time for the unlock.

Oh so they do those thing on release date, i thought they did it a few days earlier, well it'll be pretty interesting to see those comparison then

What if they don't have the drivers ready yet :lol

That's another thing, when do they usually release the optimized drivers for the game? it's my first time with a Nvidia GPU

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I dunno, I somehow doubt they removed whatever feature was making the grass look better. Time will tell if it is simply HBAO+ or something else entirely, but I can't see them taking out a broad sweeping effect like that. At least not completely (Enabled through .ini or something)

There certainly was some sort of AO in the PC vs. Ps4 comparison we saw yesterday.
I tought it looked better on PC than on Ps4, but the PS Max vs. PC Min comparison showed that there is no AO on PC min.


PC max vs. PC min:

 

[raphier]

It isn't. How would an extra character added be even close to the original scene?

ow about a magical words like screenplay rewrites I know you guys are joking, but triss has still the same animation

 

[ISee]

That's another thing, when do they usually release the optimized drivers for the game? it's my first time with a Nvidia GPU

Nvidia releases their new drivers before the games release day. Do not worry, I am pretty sure they are already ready to go.

 

[Easy_D]

There certainly was some sort of AO in the PC vs. Ps4 comparison we saw yesterday.
I tought it looked better on PC than on Ps4, but the PS Max vs. PC Min comparison showed that there is no AO on PC min.


PC max vs. PC min:

:lol. The low settings shot just makes me painfully aware of how oddly the textures are tiled on that wall

Nvidia releases their new drivers before the games release day. Do not worry, I am pretty sure they are already ready to go.

Yeah, it's AMD users who have to worry. They're so slow with their driver updates

 

[Chariot]

It isn't. How would an extra character added be even close to the original scene?

Ciri is only on-screen on Ultra settings. If your rig is weak you can lower details to activate the Ciri option.

 

[Chaos17]

CD Projekt comment on removed Witcher 3 PC-PS4 comparison video
http://www.incgamers.com/2015/05/cd-projekt-comment-on-removed-witcher-3-pc-ps4-comparison-video

"Unfortunately we don’t know how this video was created and what PC settings have been used. It compared an early PC version with a PS4 debug build without the day 1 patch … Something went wrong here and therefore we spoke to the editorial team behind it – we both agreed something is not quite right and while we’re figuring out what mistake has been made, we have removed the video.”

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Don't know why it's so hard to upload a video on youtube with this quality for gaming sites.

That load time =(

Looks good though for PS4 imo.

edit: aside from the water.

 

[BigTnaples]

CD Projekt comment on removed Witcher 3 PC-PS4 comparison video
http://www.incgamers.com/2015/05/cd-projekt-comment-on-removed-witcher-3-pc-ps4-comparison-video

Posted yesterday at the time of the removal.

That load time =(

Looks good though for PS4 imo.

Yeah the load time is rather long, but I can deal with it in an open world game with no loading cells. (I will also be playing on a PC SSD.)

The suspend/resume feature will be really handy for this game.

 

[chromatic9]

Well thats not weird. That will be posted on the 18th. Andy, a Gafer here that is the person who does those tweak guides, stated as much in the System requirements thread.

So we should have an in depth look at the tech in about 48 or so hours. Just in time for the unlock.

Didn't Andy say they don't have the final code. Not that I'm expecting anything substantial from CDPR but less than a year ago in a real time 35 minute playable demo which everyone there saw, we at least see better buildings with geometry/tessellation which seem to have been replaced which simple textures.

Could be that after the launch patch there's more that needs testing due to last minute changes. Seems like the PC code going around now is PS4 spec and runs on 2GB cards but that could be pretty much it anyways. I guess for testing sake Andy will be hoping nothing is changed which means pretty much we all get the PS4 version.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Not at all. If you use LODS 0-5 in pc ultra settings and levels 1-5 in high and consoles, you can show very different polycount with same assets. Project CARS does it with the cars.

Yes, with cars. Which are a single, independent, separate model. What about hills and mountains and forests and villages and walls and cliffs and etc etc, all integrated in the world. All things you have shown with higher detail in the screenshots. Having extra LoDs of everything [more than they have already] is way more work, because precisely the higher LoD we are discussing is that, much more detailed than the one we have right now.

And your example is from a racing game, focused on cars, so it makes sense to put some extra effort in the cars. And the cars are done in 3dMax/Maya and then scaled down, where the scaling down makes basically the same object but with less rounded parts. It isn't the same as a house in a city where the wall panels, the wooden pillars etc are different, it's a different design with less or more detail.
And a big RPG is a more complex product with more moving parts than a racing game, to be honest.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

PCGH has a new article up on the PC version, but its still based on the version thats said to be an old build: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-PC-237266/Specials/Technik-Test-1158845/

Also some 5k screenshots:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-W...male-Grafik-1158918/galerie/2373247/?fullsize

 

[Qassim]

That's another thing, when do they usually release the optimized drivers for the game? it's my first time with a Nvidia GPU

At the very least the same day, but every time I can remember, in recent years it has been before the game releases.

 

[Corpekata]

I asked Andy to clarify when the driver would drop by mentioning the game releasing Monday at 4 PM PST and his answer was basically that it would be out before then.

 

[raphier]

PCGH has a new article up on the PC version, but its still based on the version thats said to be an old build: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-PC-237266/Specials/Technik-Test-1158845/

Also some 5k screenshots:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-W...male-Grafik-1158918/galerie/2373247/?fullsize

What's up with geralts hair?

 

[Yibby]

What's up with geralts hair?

Hairworks looks so ugly and flat.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

What's up with geralts hair?

I think it looks okay.
Hairworks off

Hairworks on

 

[Doc Evils]

Short answer: nobody knows. CDPR stated that they accidently send out an much older build that makes the game look worse in general and that even the correct build would still not be finished since CDPR is still working on the Day One patch.

How much that actually changes remains to be seen.

What the fuck? So they are shipping an unfinished game and finishing it off with a patch????????