viveks86
Member
GIF'd
Similar tweaks should be possible in Wild Hunt.
Is this the GIF that requires 50 fps to be sacrificed at the altar?
Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
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Is this the GIF that requires 50 fps to be sacrificed at the altar?
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Interesting stuff. I look forward to seeing what tweak you and others come up with at launch.
From the Nvidia trailer there was something called "screen space decals" separate from the reflections, and it seemed to make terrain look a lot more detailed, though I can't quantify why.
Could that be what that setting refers to? Also does anyone know what that technique actually does?
Sanctuary
Member
What? I mean, it depends on your card of course, but that looks like it might produce drops of anything between 5 - 15, but nowhere near 50. If you have a card that could push it to 60 already at higher resolutions and with better AA, this tweak probably won't affect it too much. But TW2 wasn't open world either.
Maybe this is what it's doing?
http://martindevans.me/game-develop...Other-Stuff-With-Deferred-Screenspace-Decals/
viveks86
Member
Ummm… EatChildren gave me those eye watering numbers the last time I asked. Was merely reconfirming if that's all it took to bring it down or there were more tweaks. I remember the drop was almost 60 fps when he included shader tweaks
Yup. I actually did some digging around after seeing it in the ini files. This was a good read:
http://www.slideshare.net/blindrenderer/screen-space-decals-in-warhammer-40000-space-marine-14699854
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
viveks86
Member
Yep. Using that GIF you're looking at a difference of 50 - 60 fps.
Hope CDPR took note this time and decided to show us some mercy
Sanctuary
Member
Yep
What is so taxing to cause that kind of a performance hit? The increase in fidelity/objects doesn't seem to justify it. I guess if one is fine with 30fps (don't have dual Titan Xs), then maybe they would prefer the Ultra+ setting, but I don't think the game would feel that great to play personally.
Actully, what resolution is this at? Because I can't see it being 50 - 60 @ 1080p. That just blows my mind.
viveks86
Member
Let's hope the "real" ultra setting takes us at least half way there. Otherwise we shall revisit this in 2017
It's a sad day indeed. As much as I'll probably like the game, I've lost a bit of respect for them due entirely to PR. They've had to make difficult decisions with their lofty budget and grand showing this time around. That was not as much the case with their previous games where development was more true to spirit.
Now they're deep within a shell of BS just like any other fat, bloated dev. I just can't stop rolling my eyes at these PR statements. The trust is broken in exchange for some hype, units sold. They know what's going on; they're closing threads and taking down vids etc, releasing statements left and right etc. If they really wanted to address this issue - have they clarified whether this issue is legitimate? no - they could have. But because it isn't going to destroy their numbers, they shrug it off.
Let's say this were an even smaller issue than it is. Is it still wise to play ignorant? Not if you care about each and every sale. What's the harm in clarifying, in being straightforward? I mean, yeah, it's too late now. There's already a "downgrade" and they've already been denying it for awhile. But the sales they would've gained from being honest early on are nothing compared to those of hype, which means sales are above the truth and/or the validity of fan questions. These problems continue to fester with every big new title regardless of dev intent or sales or PR shyster-ing.
This will all come at an enormous cost eventually, maybe not for CDPR specifically but the industry will not weather this for another 20 or 30 years. Truth be told, I would savor being wrong.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
1080p. The cost is due to the difficulty rendering an abundance of foliage, some of which might not be on screen, combined with the engine and middleware probably not being optimised for it.
There is no way to know that for certain. Eventually the system requirements just get too far ahead and it wouldn't be possible to port it.
viveks86
Member
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
1080p. The cost is due to the difficulty rendering an abundance of foliage, some of which might not be on screen, combined with the engine and middleware probably not being optimised for it.
Damn. I've implemented those tweaks, and haven't seen much of a hit in flotsam, but the noticeable pop up is all but gone.
May have to drop the config down to 2 or so once I get to Act II where the draw distance is put to the test..
Right now with your mod and the tweaks I get anywhere from 48-60fps at the moment in flotsam and its surrounding Forrest. (Which is similar to what I was getting pre tweak)
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Act 2 opening is when the performance cost will rear its ugly head. You won't like it.
It kinda is though. The whole point is that a similar LoD issue is present in Witcher 2/fixed by .ini tweaks but all they show is not really much changes in W2 compared to the gigantic differences in W3.
icecold1983
Member
Absolutely
viveks86
Member
The point is to understand how the engine works and how much further we can push it towards a target that is unachievable purely through ini tweaks. The GIF shown isn't a very complex scene but it demonstrates how LOD works, which suggests how it might work for Witcher 3 as well. It's just one piece in a bigger puzzle. So we can either keep screaming "downgrade! downgrade!" till the cows come home or use the opportunity to learn something from it.
This is actually the thing that bothers me the most. I already preordered the game, and I know making software is difficult, and I don't fully understand why geometry might have been changed on PC is they truly did reduce certain building geometry elements.
HOWEVER, I could at least accept that sort of thing. Shutting down people talking about it, on the other hand, feels pretty skeezy. I want to like CDPR and look forwards to Cyberpunk. :/
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
To me the change is significant, but I raised the discussion mostly out of curiosity of what can be accomplished with tweaks that go beyond Ultra presets. This due to some screenshots showing missing geometry, and me wondering if those l little details are tied to LOD transitions that can be reduced with tweaks.
ISee
Member
They are? Oh that is always strange. It is not like people are going to stop just because you ban the discussion on your own forum. Also downgrade talks are a show and do not tell scenario, so if you didn't downgrade just prove it (and yes that takes time, but I think it is worth the promotion) and stop assuring that everything is fine.
viveks86
Member
Question - didn't they revamp their culling/streaming engine (Umbra?) for W3? Would that reduce the overhead of increasing mesh distance scale since it's optimized for the player's field of view?
And the secondary point is to illustrate what a proper analysis looks like, as opposed to the usual, "here, let's compare some footage from various trailers with footage from who knows which platform running with which settings and from which build."
I mean, I'm still expecting the Hindenburg to collide with the Lusitania on Monday evening, but most of the comparisons to date have exhibited all the scientific rigor of Behe's work with flying pufferfish.
Sanctuary
Member
The largest, most noticeable change happens when going from Ultra 1.0 to 2.0. Beyond that, sure it's noticeable in a gif or screenshot, but really while playing? Not so much compared to what you would sacrifice (unless you can keep that 60fps of the third shot) unless you're specifically targeting draw in.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I assume so. They would have made big changes to accommodate newer hardware and the open world nature of the game.
Well, the tweaks do specifically target draw in
. To me it's noticeable in play, mostly the foliage. For me any game with wide vistas benefits tremendously from tweaks that increase density and reduce pop-in in those vistas, but naturally this comes at a huge performance cost. Thankfully, if you're someone who likes to tinker, those variables don't need to be whole numbers. You can have 1.3, or something, for example, to find a happy medium of performance with a little bonus to draw distance.Wild Hunt already has a dramatically improved draw distance and LOD culling over Witcher 2. I personally don't want to tweak to the point that my frames tank to unplayable. But for people with a lot of performance headroom said tweaks could be beneficial to the presentation.
viveks86
Member
First thing I'm going to test is reduce AA level for Hair Works. I'm guessing I wouldn't need 8x at 4k, which seems to be the default? That's assuming hair works is worth it in the first place. I like Geralt's default hair, but I like hair works on beasts. Wish I could pick and choose :/
Sanctuary
Member
Well, the tweaks do specifically target draw in
Eh, I was thinking more along the lines of when geometry just poofs into existence, not when details and textures become clearly more definied. Stuff like grass just magically growing fifteen feet in front of me or when a building suddenly forms Voltron while I'm walking is what really bothers me. In many games that already have a lot of foliage, I don't notice the extra that's being added in between what's already there quite as much.
viveks86
Member
Pop in is related a draw in quite a bit. The earlier it reaches a draw threshold and shows up, the lesser chance you will notice it. So if you increase draw distance, LODs will change accordingly to accommodate it.
Having said that, there are a bunch of world asset streaming priority settings in the ini files. Almost every individual type of object is listed in there with streaming priority, which the engine will use to predict and sequence upcoming draw calls. Some of them are critical, while others are medium or low. If we happen to see pop-in even with distance scaling tweaks, I plan to experiment with the streaming tweaks as well. Hoping distance scaling would be good enough.
LOL!
Wow, I totally read "Hairworks on breasts" and was confused for a second.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The tweaks in the GIF (mostly) fix both of those. The tweaks don't add more grass. The grass in 4.0 is all already there, but doesn't appear into you're close. Same goes for the build details.
Sanctuary
Member
I see that. I was clarifying why I don't really see the third shot would be noticeably better in motion, and that I thought the main point was to prevent that popping effect. The 2.0 version looks like it eliminates that, while 4.0 just adds slightly more details, but not to the point where you'd notice it as much as the difference between 1.0 and 2.0, and that's considering any perceivable hit with performance.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Oh, well yeah, pretty much. The variable basically controls distance of foliage, and since TW2 is made up of smaller areas than an open world game the impact of the draw distance will differ depending on where you are. So yeah, in that area 2.0 is quite sufficient as you're not forcibly drawing foliage that is otherwise obscured. There's a really huge vista in Act 2 where you can see the front of the camp from a mountain ridge, and there an increased draw distance would be advantageous (and destroy framerate).
DarkLordMalik
Member
I will be honest, I don't see much difference here beside the ground?Last The Witcher 2 comparison I swear (until I don't), but a simple example of how even without mods some simple CFG tweaks beyond what the Ultra settings can go a long way.
Ultra
Tweaked (Ultra+)
Pop
Member
Well, I went to sleep for like 8 hours... and came back to catch up what was going and and then this happened:
Wat. is. going. on. with CDPR right now?
Nothing, probably pretty excited about all the money they're about to make.
ss_lemonade
Member
I'm about to replay Witcher 2 now (finished it before when the game launched. Haven't replayed the game yet with the latest patches). What do I have to do to achieve these tweaks? I have a 780 by the way, non TI so hopefully that would at least allow me some headroom.
When I first played the game, it was on a 6970 and even then, it was quite a looker. The popup though was pretty noticeable
Another thread got shut down for some reason. I don't see anything wrong with posts here but maybe i am wrong.
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...lity-to-look-like-the-35-minute-footage/page6
Because they delete the bad ones. The discussion is always pretty heated and people step out of line. The mods gave warnings, but people kept to have a very sharp tongue.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Set up the game as you would normally (using the launcher). Then go to Documents/Witcher 2/Config and open up User.ini
Under [Rendering] add or change (if they're already there)
FoliageDistanceScale=
MeshDistanceScale=
1.0 is Ultra by TW2's standards. Can be increased beyond. Try between 2.0 - 4.0. 2.0 might be a good balance of doubling the draw distance for foliage and mesh without ruining performance. For an added bonus, you could also try my Extreme Quality Foliage, which brute forces high quality foliage assets alongside the increased draw distance.
EDIT: The reason I say to set the config first before opening the file is because if you boot up the config again it'll reset a lot of the variables I think. Set up using the game, then tweak.
Ok, now imagine that this 1 part of the wall is 0.001% of all the world geometry you have to QA, with a smallish team... and everything keeps changing, and you have to work 20 hour days and weekends leading up till release.
Then you have to also somehow squeeze in sleep and time with your family.
Not so simple.
This is what happens when you go from linear small areas which can be scrutinised over and over (witcher 2), to enormous open wold areas. Sad but true.
Look at the LOD elements. The difference is massive.
Turin Turambar
Member
Why do people who cares feel compelled to announce it?
Human nature, I guess.
Well, that's true. I thought it was the wall from the Novigrad entrance which they showed off in some videos. I might have been mistaken here, becasue that wall I thought would be one they probably check carefully.
cripterion
Member
Doesn't Ciri also get Hairworks treatment? It would stand to reason that they also put in on her considering she's a playable character.
They can delete them and punish users who broke rules. Here on GAF we have this thread that works just fine like many others. But it is easier to close thread
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