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[Violet_0]

I don't get it, after all. How did people who are dropping this show because of this scene get past the 13 year old Danny forced by her brother to be raped on the wedding night to a Dothraki leader brute?

That was season 1

book Dany. Emilia Clarke was 24 in S1

 

[Blader]

It was shocking because it happened to Sansa not because there was a rape on GoT. There was murder in the show before the Red Wedding too. Doesn't mean RW wasn't shocking.

The red wedding is shocking because you don't expect it given the context of the situation. I don't think there's anything unexpected about Ramsay, a well-documented psychopath, raping his wife in a situation where sex is going to happen otherwise. Either Sansa consents to it or she doesn't. Ramsay isn't Tyrion; he's not going to not force himself on her out of the kindness of his heart (of which he demonstrably has none).

The idea that the situation was meant to be *shocking* is bizarre to me because there's nothing shocking to me about how a guy like Ramsay would behave in a situation like that.

 

[bengraven]

Decent blog entry by a fantasy writer:

Why Are You Writing A Rape Scene?

This isn’t an accusation. This is a genuine question. And it’s also a subject that’s been on my mind just about since I got started writing.

Trigger warning for all kinds of bad shit.

Rape is a thing in books. It’s been a thing in books for awhile now, but in the past 10-20 years, this horrific taboo has become more explored and prominently used in literature and art. It feels like it’s come to a head recently, what with yet another brutal, degrading rape in last night’s Game of Thrones, a show I’ve only ever watched occasionally but increasingly feels like a conga line of sexual violence.

A lot of people are mad about it. Other people say, “Well, it’s that world. It’s also in history, and in war. It’s perfectly justified to feature rape in a story. And that character is a monster.”

So here’s a thought exercise I’d like you to try.

You’re writing a rape scene. A woman gets brutally raped by a monstrous male character in one scene in your book. It’s scandalizing. It’s disturbing. It’s graphic. People are going to talk about this.

Okay. Now substitute another sex crime in its place – say, homosexual pedophilia.

Now instead of raping a buxom, weeping young woman, your Extremely Bad Dude is now raping a terrified six year old boy.

Does it still feel like it deserves to be there?

To use the usual fictional rape apologist arguments, there’s no reason this scene shouldn’t exist. Child rape exists, and no doubt happens in times of war. It probably happens even more in third world countries that are at war. Historically speaking, I’m sure there have been thousands of child rapes since the dawn of humanity. Maybe millions.

Practically speaking, it would be remiss not to include a child rape scene or two, right? It happens. We must be truthful to reality. It’s our duty.

Or, wait – is it possible you’re using this horrific, degrading, monstrous act as window dressing?

That’s why a lot of people seem to feature rape scenes, it seems. “This is a very bad dude,” a writer might say, “and I need to prove it to the audience.” And the audience might say, “Yes, that character WOULD do that. That’s absolutely in line with their nature.” And so they’re fine with it.

Or maybe the writer just wants to signal to the reader that this world is extra, super-duper grim and gritty. The audience would then say, “Well, that’s the world this story’s set in. It’s monstrous and brutal. But them’s the shakes.” And so they’re fine with it. (This is basically adding ambiance to the story. “Let’s throw a little rape in the background,” the writer thinks, “so folks get the picture.”)

But while audiences seem willing to sit and watch a young woman get raped to make these points, raping a six year old boy suddenly seems… excessive, right? It’s way over the line. No one wants to watch a sobbing child get sexually violated. So why are we willing to sit and watch one awful sex crime but not the other?

And if you go through rape-heavy books, and swap out all the rape victims with young boys, then, shit howdy, you’d probably start thinking, “Whoa, what’s the fucking deal here? Why does this writer keep featuring scenes with this awful shit? Are they getting off on it? Do they think that I’m getting off on it?”

And that’s a tough question. Are you getting off on it? Are you including this rape scene for titillation, to be sensational, to set tongues a wagging? Are you using rape as a tool, a signal, a way to tell the reader that you mean business?

And is there no other way for you to do that? Do you have to make someone get raped for your story to work? Or do you just want to see it happen?

So here’s the things you need to ask yourself if you’re writing a rape scene:

What am I trying to do with this rape scene? What is its function?

Is this necessary to the plot? Will this book fall apart if this rape scene is not included?

Will this story focus more on the rapist than the victim? Will the victim essentially be forgotten?

If I swap out this rape victim with a young child, will audiences still accept this scene? Or will they find this scene wholly unnecessary, and condemn me for it?

Rape gets trivialized in the real world. It’s frequently hushed up or waved off. The victims are forgotten. So think long and hard about why you’re including it in your book. To use such a monstrous act as window dressing is to trivialize it further.

http://www.robertjacksonbennett.com/blog/why-are-you-writing-a-rape-scene

Errbody getting their two cents in while the iron is hot.

 

[ultron87]

If we are offended by the portrayal of rape in a fictional medium why are we not offended by murder as well?

I am not posing that they are equivalent. They are however both horrible crimes that should not occur in real life.

When people have been killed on the show it actually has affected the plot and the way characters interact with each other. Even if it was just random people it has been for a reason that furthers the plot or tells us something about someone. So far, when people have been raped it's just been forgotten or not mentioned again as if it was no big deal.

 

[Moff]

She was offered a way out if she wanted out. To light a candle in the tower if she ever needed help.

gotta admit, yes, you are absolutely right. she probably was just too stupid/trying to be brave.

Spoiler

and it's painfully obvious that she will light that candle as soon as possible

 

[blitzcloud]

If we are offended by the portrayal of rape in a fictional medium why are we not offended by murder as well?

I am not posing that they are equivalent. They are however both horrible crimes that should not occur in real life.

some people say rape is more prevalent in the real world than other crimes. I think the murder statistics prove otherwise. I hate to have to say it because i'm putting my account at risk. The reason why Danny being in the same situation if not worse in season one and this one causing outrage (if the OP is to be believed), means something shifted in society to put rape in the spotlight of bad things that happen in society. Sure we've noticed how the things involving rape have become more of a sensible matter in the recent years.

I dont know the reason, but it could very well be because of the dickwolves.

book Dany. Emilia Clarke was 24 in S1

Book Danny yes. But they never pretended she was over the age of 18 in the show. The character she was portraying was meant to be underage and naive. A beautiful girl that his brother sold to a grunt for an army.

 

[spekkeh]

I think Ramsay is a terribly written character anyway, but this is a show that kills off main characters because people get attached to them. As such this is simply world building and we shouldn't be surprised by yet another for shock value event. I think people are so shocked because Sansa is so innocent and sweet, as opposed to all the other things that happened with Theon, Danearys, and all the others. Which is actually pretty sexist.

 

[youbastards]

Decent blog entry by a fantasy writer:

a show I’ve only ever watched occasionally but increasingly feels like a conga line of sexual violence

I stopped reading here, as my guess is his occasional viewings correspond directly with internet controversy that he uses to add another blog entry.

 

[Kusagari]

I think Ramsay is a terribly written character anyway, but this is a show that kills off main characters because people get attached to them. As such this is simply world building and we shouldn't be surprised by yet another for shock value event. I think people are so shocked because Sansa is so innocent and sweet, as opposed to all the other things that happened with Theon, Danearys, and all the others. Which is actually pretty sexist.

Dany was probably more innocent in season 1 than Sansa now.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Let's see. It's the son of the man that betrayed and killed her mother and brother. She sees maimed Theon. Myranda tells her Ramsay killed his girlfriend because she bored him. Yeah, pretty high chance this guy is going to be a mean dude.

D & D wanted to have a rape to shock people but they weren't smart enough to have it make sense. (It makes sense that Ramsay would do it of course. It makes no sense that Sansa would put herself in that position)

Sansa resigned herself to this fate. Before she put that cloak on, she knew that she was going to have to sleep with him. She told Littlefinger weeks beforehand, when they were in the crypt, that she knew the reality of her situation. When she first was taken to Moat Cailin, she knew the reality of her situation.

I think people are giving show-Sansa less credit than she deserves. She knows she's going to have to put up with some bullshit before Stannis arrives, that was she and LF's plan. The plan was not "stab Ramsey on his wedding night and go running off into the woods being chased by his bloodhounds and knights". In her mind, this a temporary inconvenience. That takes strength to endure.

The shock to her system was Theon. Theon, whom she 100% believes betrayed Robb and murdered Ser Rodrik Cassell, Maester Luwin, Bran, and Rickon. The guy whom, only a few hours ago, she told she could give less than two fucks what future horrors he would have to face while she was there. In that scene, in that moment, she actually feels sorry for him for having to watch what she was prepared to endure.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Decent blog entry by a fantasy writer:

Why Are You Writing A Rape Scene?



http://www.robertjacksonbennett.com/blog/why-are-you-writing-a-rape-scene

Errbody getting their two cents in while the iron is hot.

A writer arguing for certain topics to be off limits? Why draw the line at rape? Stop trivializing murder and war, too.

 

[Maxim726X]

Sansa resigned herself to this fate. Before she put that cloak on, she knew that she was going to have to sleep with him. She told Littlefinger weeks beforehand, when they were in the crypt, that she knew the reality of her situation. When she first was taken to Moat Cailin, she knew the reality of her situation.

I think people are giving show-Sansa less credit than she deserves. She knows she's going to have to put up with some bullshit before Stannis arrives, that was she and LF's plan. The plan was not "stab Ramsey on his wedding night and go running off into the woods being chased by his bloodhounds and knights". In her mind, this a temporary inconvenience. That takes strength to endure.

The shock to her system was Theon. Theon, whom she 100% believes betrayed Robb and murdered Ser Rodrik Cassell, Maester Luwin, Bran, and Rickon. The guy whom, only a few hours ago, she told she could give less than two fucks what future horrors he would have to face while she was there. In that scene, in that moment, she actually feels sorry for him for having to watch what she was prepared to endure.

This is exactly as I see it as well. It marginalizes her as a character if you simply throw out her motivations and goals.

She's a pretty young girl without an army or any real power... But it won't be that way for long, and that was pretty heavily foreshadowed in the earlier episodes of the season. She'll get her chance for revenge soon, but she knows that this is the role she has to play for the time being.

 

[Griss]

Sansa resigned herself to this fate. Before she put that cloak on, she knew that she was going to have to sleep with him. She told Littlefinger weeks beforehand, when they were in the crypt, that she knew the reality of her situation. When she first was taken to Moat Cailin, she knew the reality of her situation.

I think people are giving show-Sansa less credit than she deserves. She knows she's going to have to put up with some bullshit before Stannis arrives, that was she and LF's plan. The plan was not "stab Ramsey on his wedding night and go running off into the woods being chased by his bloodhounds and knights". In her mind, this a temporary inconvenience. That takes strength to endure.

The shock to her system was Theon. Theon, whom she 100% believes betrayed Robb and murdered Ser Rodrik Cassell, Maester Luwin, Bran, and Rickon. The guy whom, only a few hours ago, she told she could give less than two fucks what future horrors he would have to face while she was there. In that scene, in that moment, she actually feels sorry for him for having to watch what she was prepared to endure.

She didn't know that he was a rapist psychopath, though. I'm sure she imagined it going rather better than it did. As in, she'd be polite and he'd be 'normal' enough about it. What she got she could hardly have predicted when she agreed to go down there.

I mean, outside of his home base Ramsey is shown to be very good at acting normal. He does a bang-up job with Littlefinger. Even I thought that, considering how important Sansa is to Ramsey's standing now and in the future, that he'd ease off on the crazy. The fact that he hasn't surprised even me.

 

[Netherscourge]

The show is nothing but torture porn, IMO, and Sansa was next in line to be tortured/humiliated.

I expect Arya and Jon Snow to eventually get the torture treatment at some point.

-Snow will probably get eaten by a dire wolf, just because it's ironic.

-Arya will accidentally slip and fall on Needle when she's doing some other thing.

It's like, "Hmmm... how can we further humiliate the Stark line today? Oh I know, will cut off ____'s weiner! Cause, that's ironic!"


Ramsay will probably become the next king on the Iron Throne just because nobody wants him to be. Joffrey was just a setback.

(Sorry, the show is becoming too predictable. I must rant.)

 

[Kinyou]

Decent blog entry by a fantasy writer:

Why Are You Writing A Rape Scene?



http://www.robertjacksonbennett.com/blog/why-are-you-writing-a-rape-scene

Errbody getting their two cents in while the iron is hot.

Couldn't a similar argument be made with violence? Let's imagine we see a six years olds head getting crushed by the mountain, wouldn't people find that also more upsetting? Does that mean everyone who does include a scene like this with a grown man and not a boy is is a hypocrite now?

 

[badb0y]

I find this outrage hilarious because I knew Sansa was going to get raped the moment she agreed to marry Ramsey. Anything else would not fit Ramsey's character. How did no one see this coming from a mile away? I also like how the rape was not glamorized but instead we see Theon's face as he watches the rape happen. The pain, the disgust, the helplessness is exactly what the audience is supposed to feel and Theon displayed that masterfully. Brilliant scene.

 

[bengraven]

I stopped reading here, as my guess is his occasional viewings correspond directly with internet controversy that he uses to add another blog entry.

I had the feeling as well, taking a chance to get some views up and some books sold.

I do think he makes a good argument though, or I wouldn't have posted it. OR I would have posted it and mocked him. I did mention at the end that he's trying to get in on the media hype.

A writer arguing for certain topics to be off limits? Why draw the line at rape? Stop trivializing murder and war, too.

I think what he means is that there are other horrors of war that D&D chose not to show, so why is rape of a woman not as creepy as other things...? I guess? I think he's insinuating that "well we can't show a child being raped, but a woman isn't as big of a deal".

I do however think he's not trying to censor anyone, he just wants, from a writer's perspective, there to be a reason for something and not just to titillate, not to overuse it, and not to minimize it's horror because you're a guy writing about a girl.

I'm saying them, because George shows pretty much everything. Dead kids, raped kids, etc.

 

[youbastards]

The shock to her system was Theon. Theon, whom she 100% believes betrayed Robb and murdered Ser Rodrik Cassell, Maester Luwin, Bran, and Rickon. The guy whom, only a few hours ago, she told she could give less than two fucks what future horrors he would have to face while she was there. In that scene, in that moment, she actually feels sorry for him for having to watch what she was prepared to endure.

Correct. Despite the atrocities that she thinks he committed, Theon was regarded almost as a brother for most of her childhood.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I think what he means is that there are other horrors of war that D&D chose not to show, so why is rape of a woman not as creepy as other things...? I guess? I think he's insinuating that "well we can't show a child being raped, but a woman isn't as big of a deal".

I do however think he's not trying to censor anyone, he just wants, from a writer's perspective, there to be a reason for something and not just to titillate, not to overuse it, and not to minimize it's horror because you're a guy writing about a girl.

I'm saying them, because George shows pretty much everything. Dead kids, raped kids, etc.

Because they haven't yet means they won't ever?

You can't show everything that comes to mind when you have limited time. He's making assumptions by saying that the scene was put in for no more reason than to get a reaction. The writers could, and most likely did, have reasons of their own to go forward with this scene for plot purposes and not just for shock value. Whether people agree with those reasons or not is one thing, of course.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Decent blog entry by a fantasy writer:

Why Are You Writing A Rape Scene?



http://www.robertjacksonbennett.com/blog/why-are-you-writing-a-rape-scene

Errbody getting their two cents in while the iron is hot.

In search of a gotcha moment, writer shows himself to be culturally illiterate.

 

[hendersonhank]

No means no, even in stupid fantasy land.

Did you watch a special director's cut where she said "no"? Because in the version I saw, she went to their bedchamber presumably for the exact reason of consummating the marriage, removed her clothes, and never said a word in protest.

 

[superdeluxe]

Lots of twitter/facebook posts about rage/quitting

And then we continue to hear ratings increase, etc.

 

[Forsaken82]

The wedding night took place in the books with another character and was far worse.

You could argue it wasn't as bad because as a book reader you are emotionally invested in the stark's. All you realize book wise is that Ramsey is arguably the biggest monster in westeros.

I look at it like the book represents the scene like you heard about what happened to your best friends sisters brothers uncles nephew's cousin by the hands of Ramsey... but the show turns it into a scenario more akin to hearing that Ramsey just raped your sister/mother/daughter/loved one. It hits closer to home because of an emotional investment.

Both acts are despicable, however what happens to Sansa is wrong on more levels do to the attachment we have had to hear across these books.

That is my biggest problem with the scene, and over all sansa's place in Winterfell at this point.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I had the feeling as well, taking a chance to get some views up and some books sold.

Yes that's what it must be, he's just pretending or exaggerating for clicks and sales, definitely could never be a genuine opinion.


And people say it's the critics who are all negative and what not.

 

[fuzzyset]

Decent blog entry by a fantasy writer:

Why Are You Writing A Rape Scene?



http://www.robertjacksonbennett.com/blog/why-are-you-writing-a-rape-scene

Errbody getting their two cents in while the iron is hot.

The "non-accusation" that either the reader or author is "getting off" via the rape scenes in a book makes me ignore the rest of his argument.

 

[The Elite]

I have read the book so know what's up but why are people outraged when horrible people do horrible things in fiction?

Ramsey is a despicable human being.

I don't understand this sort of outrage. If you're uncomfortable with watching bad people do bad things you probably shouldn't be watching Game of Thrones.

 

[forrest]

its either that or we never see the ending cause George dies one day

What good is an ending not written by the author?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Did you watch a special director's cut where she said "no"? Because in the version I saw, she went to their bedchamber presumably for the exact reason of consummating the marriage, removed her clothes, and never said a word in protest.

Dennis: The whole purpose of buying the boat in the first place was to get the ladies nice and tipsy top side, so we can take them to a nice comfortable place below deck, and you know, they can't refuse...because of the implication.
Mac: Okay you had me goin' there for the first half. The second half kinda threw me.
Dennis: Well dude, think about it. She's out in the middle of nowhere, with some dude she barely knows. She looks around and what does she see? Nothing but open ocean. "Ah there's nowhere for me to run! What am I gonna do, say no?"
Mac: Okay. That seems really dark.
Dennis: It's not dark, you're misunderstanding me, bro.
Mac: I think I am.
Dennis: Yeah, you are. Because if the girl said 'no', then the answer is obviously 'no'. But the thing is she is not gonna say no. She would never say 'no', because of the implication.
Mac: Okay, now that's the second time you've said that word, what implication?
Dennis: The implication that things might go wrong for her if she refuses to sleep with me. Not that things are gonna go wrong for her, but she's thinking that they will.
Mac: ... But it sounds like she doesn't want to have sex with you..
Dennis: Why aren't you understanding this?

 

[Deleted member 1159]

BTW people complaining about the bad shit happening to the Starks, don't forget what happens to the Lannisters

Spoiler

Tyrion is constantly abused and mistreated, Tysha, nose cut off, scorned by everyone despite his good intentions etc.
Cersei is wed into a loveless marriage and is pretty much sexually assaulted for years by Robert (are we overlooking this because she's mean later in life?)
Joffrey is murdered at his wedding.
Myrcella has her ear cut off/face maimed.
Jaime makes the best decision he could have made at the time to save lives by slaying Aerys, and he's reviled for the rest of his life because of it. Has his sword hand chopped off. Gets shunned by the only woman he ever loved.
Tywin gets fucking feathered on a privy.
Lancel is coerced into his role, then turns into a pious zealot
Kevan gets murdered

The story isn't just a Stark torture porn. Everyone gets their punishment. Targaryens got slaughtered. Two Baratheons are dead. Freys are getting hanged left and right. Jeyne Westerling is forced to take moon tea. Quentyn, Oberyn and Elia Martell. Saying it's just the Starks getting the shaft is just delusional.

 

[youbastards]

Yes that's what it must be, he's just pretending or exaggerating for clicks and sales, definitely could never be a genuine opinion.


And people say it's the critics who are all negative and what not.

Who cares about a genuine opinion someone has about a show he admits he doesn't regularly follow but only comments about when the internet is in uproar mode?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

She didn't know that he was a rapist psychopath, though. I'm sure she imagined it going rather better than it did. As in, she'd be polite and he'd be 'normal' enough about it. What she got she could hardly have predicted when she agreed to go down there.

I mean, outside of his home base Ramsey is shown to be very good at acting normal. He does a bang-up job with Littlefinger. Even I thought that, considering how important Sansa is to Ramsey's standing now and in the future, that he'd ease off on the crazy. The fact that he hasn't surprised even me.

She knew factually that his family stabbed her brother in the back.

She saw firsthand what a feeble, simpering wreck he had turned once proud Theon into.

She knew secondhand that he fed his jump-offs to his dogs.

The way I saw that scene was

"All right, let's get this over with. Theon, close the door behind you."
"No, he stays. He watches."
"WTF?"

I see it as she was mentally prepared for the sexual degradation by someone she can't stand, but not for the shame of it being shared with this person.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Who cares about a genuine opinion someone has about a show he admits he doesn't regularly follow but only comments about when the internet is in uproar mode?

He's mostly using it to talk in general about the usage of rape in fiction. Heavens to betsy.

 

[Ralemont]

But while audiences seem willing to sit and watch a young woman get raped to make these points, raping a six year old boy suddenly seems… excessive, right? It’s way over the line. No one wants to watch a sobbing child get sexually violated. So why are we willing to sit and watch one awful sex crime but not the other?

This guy is quite presumptive. Berserk is one of my favorite fictional stories.

 

[Blader]

You could argue it wasn't as bad because as a book reader you are emotionally invested in the stark's. All you realize book wise is that Ramsey is arguably the biggest monster in westeros.

I look at it like the book represents the scene like you heard about what happened to your best friends sisters brothers uncles nephew's cousin by the hands of Ramsey... but the show turns it into a scenario more akin to hearing that Ramsey just raped your sister/mother/daughter/loved one. It hits closer to home because of an emotional investment.

Both acts are despicable, however what happens to Sansa is wrong on more levels do to the attachment we have had to hear across these books.

That is my biggest problem with the scene, and over all sansa's place in Winterfell at this point.

This thread is the first I'm hearing of people being emotionally invested in Sansa. :lol

I'm not, like, rooting for her to be fucked over or anything, but up until this season and maybe the very end of last season, I don't think I ever much cared about her story.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I'm still surprised why ppl seem chill with the controversial scene in season 1 where Khaleesi is raped by definition, and has to overcome her own trauma to like the guy. That's fairly messed up already.

 

[Black-Wind]

The outrage seems to be because of who she is ... a Stark girl we saw grow up.
We saw the same thing happen to Deanerys. I mean, fuck ... she gets raped by a barbaric (aka less than human) man ... and they grew to love each other. She took the reins and turned from a victim to the player/ partner/ leader.

Sansa lives in a world where this is the norm. Where you're expected to fuck on your wedding night regardless of how much you like the other person. THAT was part of her hard choice that people like to quote. That's why she reminds LF that by the time he returns she will have likely been married ... she knew this would happen and accepted it as part of her plan.

We'll have to see next ep how she's going to react to this. Can't say she's "become a victim again" until we knew exactly how this factors into her plans.

 

[vpance]

I don't understand this sort of outrage. If you're uncomfortable with watching bad people do bad things you probably shouldn't be watching Game of Thrones.

People haven't become desensitized to seeing rape in the movies or shows they watch, yet. Somehow killing or torture seems far less personal a thing to most. Not sure why it's like this but it is.

 

[ultron87]

BTW people complaining about the bad shit happening to the Starks, don't forget what happens to the Lannisters

*spoiler list*

The story isn't just a Stark torture porn. Everyone gets their punishment. Targaryens got slaughtered. Two Baratheons are dead. Freys are getting hanged left and right. Jeyne Westerling is forced to take moon tea. Quentyn, Oberyn and Elia Martell. Saying it's just the Starks getting the shaft is just delusional.

All of the things you listed further the plot and/or give us insight into the characters that these things happen to or those that committed them. Unless things go wildly differently then everyone is suspecting, this rape is probably going to just be another item on the already amply long "Ramsey is horrible" list and won't alter the trajectory that Sansa was already on. I could be surprised and the way Sansa reacts to this could be well written, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Lothar]

The red wedding is shocking because you don't expect it given the context of the situation. I don't think there's anything unexpected about Ramsay, a well-documented psychopath, raping his wife in a situation where sex is going to happen otherwise. Either Sansa consents to it or she doesn't. Ramsay isn't Tyrion; he's not going to not force himself on her out of the kindness of his heart (of which he demonstrably has none).

The idea that the situation was meant to be *shocking* is bizarre to me because there's nothing shocking to me about how a guy like Ramsay would behave in a situation like that.

It's shocking that the show writers would put her in a situation like that. That doesn't mean it's bad. RW was shocking. It's bad because it was done just for shock and because Sansa's motivations make no sense.

Here's a post I liked on somethingawful summing the problem up of her motivations.

Does Sansa even know what her revenge plan is, or is she hoping to stumble upon it after a dozen or so rapes?

1. Become Bolton prisoner
2. Get raped
3. ???
4 Revenge is mine!

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

Gonna wait to see where the story line goes before hating on the scene or declaring it unnecessary

The Dorne scene on the other hand was awful. If that's what the writers do now that they aren't following the books, I don't have much hope for the future of the show

 

[Cappa]

book Dany. Emilia Clarke was 24 in S1

So because it's in a book it's different? Ok

 

[Ralemont]

All of the things you listed further the plot and/or give us insight into the characters that these things happen to or those that committed them. Unless things go wildly differently then everyone is suspecting, this rape is probably going to just be another item on the already amply long "Ramsey is horrible" list and won't significantly alter the trajectory that Sansa was already on. I could be surprised and the way Sansa reacts to this could be nuanced and well written, but I'm not holding my breath.

Didn't the preview for the next episode show Sansa trying to turn Theon to her side?

I find it very hard to believe that Sansa getting raped is merely "another terrible thing happens in the show." For now she sees it as a necessary evil to get what she wants, which is Winterfell back in Stark hands.

 

[hendersonhank]

Dennis: The whole purpose of buying the boat in the first place was to get the ladies nice and tipsy top side, so we can take them to a nice comfortable place below deck, and you know, they can't refuse...because of the implication.
Mac: Okay you had me goin' there for the first half. The second half kinda threw me.
Dennis: Well dude, think about it. She's out in the middle of nowhere, with some dude she barely knows. She looks around and what does she see? Nothing but open ocean. "Ah there's nowhere for me to run! What am I gonna do, say no?"
Mac: Okay. That seems really dark.
Dennis: It's not dark, you're misunderstanding me, bro.
Mac: I think I am.
Dennis: Yeah, you are. Because if the girl said 'no', then the answer is obviously 'no'. But the thing is she is not gonna say no. She would never say 'no', because of the implication.
Mac: Okay, now that's the second time you've said that word, what implication?
Dennis: The implication that things might go wrong for her if she refuses to sleep with me. Not that things are gonna go wrong for her, but she's thinking that they will.
Mac: ... But it sounds like she doesn't want to have sex with you..
Dennis: Why aren't you understanding this?

So "no means no" somehow applies when someone doesn't say "no"?

And your bizarre dialogue is wholly inapplicable here. Sansa travelled to Winterfell for the express purpose of marrying Ramsay. A marriage REQUIRES a consummation. She knew the marriage and consummation would be unpleasant, but she SOUGHT IT OUT as a means to an end, presumably the end of acquiring some sort of power and potential revenge.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Decent blog entry by a fantasy writer:

Why Are You Writing A Rape Scene?



http://www.robertjacksonbennett.com/blog/why-are-you-writing-a-rape-scene

Errbody getting their two cents in while the iron is hot.

Or; things are worse than other things

Or; Even HBO has limits

 

[Mindwipe]

He's mostly using it to talk in general about the usage of rape in fiction. Heavens to betsy.

When he can't even get the primary example he's trying to use right it suggests he doesn't have a very good grip of the general or the specific.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

All of the things you listed further the plot and/or give us insight into the characters that these things happen to or those that committed them. Unless things go wildly differently then everyone is suspecting, this rape is probably going to just be another item on the already amply long "Ramsey is horrible" list and won't alter the trajectory that Sansa was already on. I could be surprised and the way Sansa reacts to this could be well written, but I'm not holding my breath.

But

Spoiler

I think what it does accomplish is possibly start to break Theon out of his stupor and test Sansa's resolve and possibly make stronger.

. I don't think it was the right way to go about it but it's not clear it's without reason.

In a lot of ways, the books are way worse for upping the ante on Ramsay's awfulness for no really good reason.

 

[Black-Wind]

She knew factually that his family stabbed her brother in the back.

She saw firsthand what a feeble, simpering wreck he had turned once proud Theon into.

She knew secondhand that he fed his jump-offs to his dogs.

The way I saw that scene was

"All right, let's get this over with. Theon, close the door behind you."
"No, he stays. He watches."
"WTF?"

I see it as she was mentally prepared for the sexual degradation by someone she can't stand, but not for the shame of it being shared with this person.

That's how I read it to.That's the evil sprinkle ontop. She fucking hates Theon and now he's forever apart of this moment.

 

[Hex]

All of these quotes... so much tea spilled. Yet most will ignore it "because it's supposed to be a dark fantasy!!!!!!111"

What do these quotes have to do with anything?
Yes some people are offended, is that in question?
Is that supposed to make everyone else all of the sudden say "Oh I guess they are right an I should change my view?"
A little self righteous to think like that no?
People have a right to be offended, and others have a right to not be.
If you have not noticed there is no small amount of things offending people these days and no small number of people ready to be offended.
Are we really bringing list wars to threads like this?
Are we soon going to have to see lists of people not offended just to counter posts like this?

 

[stilgar]

So:

Murder
Torture
Incest
Prostitution
Religious persecutions

Entertainment

Rape

DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO DO THAT

 

[The Elite]

People haven't become desensitized to seeing rape in the movies or shows they watch, yet. Somehow killing or torture seems far less personal a thing to most. Not sure why it's like this but it is.

The scene made me feel uncomfortable as well. The scene is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable; even disgusted. That's fine. I want my fiction to evoke emotion even if it's emotions I don't necessarily always want to feel.