More outrage at depiction of rape in Game of Thrones television show (spoilers)
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The Silver
Member
well I'm sure they would follow the books if GRRM actually finshed them
Brian Griffin
Member
Castration, flaying, beheading, and other brutal acts are not experienced every day but large numbers of people.
Rape is.
That is why it sparks such a reaction with large numbers of people. I found the rape scene lazy and pointless but wasn't horrified by it. However, I completely understand that people would be and they are completely justified in feeling that way. Rape is "special" with regards to all the other violence in the show because of how common it is in our society and to not realize that is pretty obtuse.
excelsiorlef
Member
Well at least they would have tried something different than girl screams and cries whilst getting raped #7654 in pop culture.
nelsonroyale
Member
But it is...are we supposed to care about a minor character in fiction as much as one of the main characters? This isn't real life and even then relationships imprint. So yeah, perfectly natural. I think this is a bigger issue.
So entire narratives should focus around tip toeing around controversial issues?
Wiktor
Member
What's the point of exact adaptation? We already got the books. To translate it scene by scene would be a waste of people's time.
heliosRAzi
Banned
That's the policy. After the episode airs, it's fair game
| Praxis |
Banned
I haven't been watching this latest series, I have found the quality of the show diminishing with every series, but I'm more offended about the changes from the books than anything else.
It's quite clearly about both of them. The scene, I mean.
Show me the scores of said groups as compared to the real women hating this. I'll wait.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
1 in 5 women in the US, today, are raped at least once in their lifetime. This is a drastic improvement over just 20 years ago.
People should just come out and say they want fiction to show the world as they want it to be, not how it actually is. Bad men with power rape. ISIS shows us this every damn day.
Lothar said:
LF also points out the backup plan if Stannis fails - learn to deal with Ramsay's shit, but at least you're now Wardeness of the North and all of your children will still be heirs to Winterfell...even if Ramsay dies. It's not an ideal option, but what other options does she have other than hiding in the Veil the rest of her life while waiting for someone not named Lannister to sit on the Iron Throne?
Just have him get her out before the actual marriage. Tah dah!
D
Deleted member 17706
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I'm not trying to bait you or anything, but it sounds to me like you're arguing that content should be created with the goal of not offending anyone first and foremost. Or do you just draw the line at rape?
Everyone is going to have their personal level of tolerance when it comes to what is offensive or not. Different people will be triggered by different things. Creators would have to severely limit themselves to try to make content that isn't offensive to anyone and they still will most likely fail.
So... listen to those who shout the loudest? That should be your guideline for what is and isn't acceptable?
I have this idea. It's "Jump to Triggered" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different TRIGGERS written on it that you could JUMP TO.
hendersonhank
Member
They did show that, when Littlefinger told her exactly why she should marry Ramsay and gave her the choice of doing so or not, and when she went there for that purpose. What more do you want "shown" regarding that at this stage?
Theon is a character too, you know. His response matters, and not just for obvious cinematic reasons (i.e. so that we have to imagine what's happening based on a spectator's response). And Ramsay's wedding night in the book (not to Sansa) was also from Theon's POV.
Which is contrary to what Sansa has decided to do.
Eh. We saw her being forced onto the bed and having her clothes torn open, and still heard it. And it was just inches offscreen.
I'm not sure what Sansa being raped adds to the story. It certainly doesn't "ruin her character" as some have said, but we already know that Ramsay is a monster. It makes the conversation with Myranda is kind of redundant.
If Sansa is going to be sexually abused by Ramsay, why make it explicit? The scene could have ended with a bedding scene, and the last thing we see is a closed door. That way, it's a bit more ambiguous and tasteful.
ill quote myself from the other thread
But what if Stannis kills the Boltons? We don't know whats gonna happen. Bolton knows Stannis is coming and its in everyone's best interest to get the wedding as soon as possible.
and its clear Theon doesn't care for himself. Sansa being tortured/abused is the only thing that would snap him back to himself.
And if you just want to talk about Sansa, i dont see how its against what they've been building in the show. Shes still a helpless girls with no recourse who is only in this situation because she had no real choice but to listen to littlefinger.
Its clear this is gonna be the catalyst for Theon and Sansa to unite against Ramsey in some way.
But what if Stannis kills the Boltons? We don't know whats gonna happen. Bolton knows Stannis is coming and its in everyone's best interest to get the wedding as soon as possible.
and its clear Theon doesn't care for himself. Sansa being tortured/abused is the only thing that would snap him back to himself.
And if you just want to talk about Sansa, i dont see how its against what they've been building in the show. Shes still a helpless girls with no recourse who is only in this situation because she had no real choice but to listen to littlefinger.
Its clear this is gonna be the catalyst for Theon and Sansa to unite against Ramsey in some way.
excelsiorlef
Member
But again using a rape of a woman to give motivation to a male character to act is lazy writing. That's part of the criticism.
Like no offense you basically just all but said she had to get raped because how else is he going to get redeemed.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
Welcome to America. All the other despicable violence of the show is A-OK, but god forbid we throw rape into the mix. They didn't even show anything graphic ffs. If you don't like it don't watch it.
Lots of people hate the all female Ghostbusters. I sure hope that doesn't stop the content creator from making it.
The episode has already aired which makes it fair game on Gaf. Simultaneously, its currently a very popular topic of conversation. If you didn't hear it here, it was most certainly going to be in an article title somewhere else.
Maybe people are finally getting sick of how GoT frivelously treats rape, especially now that the topic is at the forefront of cultural discussion. Don't be surprised if you make a show that continually degrades and trivializes an issue that's close to home for a huge chunk of your audience to the point where they are vocally fed up with it.
Right, except for the part where I clearly said it deals with Sansa's character as well.
The show absolutely did not trivialize rape with the Sansa scene. It's a horrific act and it was portrayed about as horrifically as you can without actually depicting the rape.
its rape
how are you gonna make rape more ambiguous and tasteful? As is, its a fairly tame representation of rape. I mean i just watched a certain episode of Spartacus so maybe my expectations are a little off.
Well that is a better option than the get raped + suicide mission. But if you really wanted that mission, how's about wait for Ramsay to win. Then agree to marry him.
Or wait for Stannis to win. Then you have to do nothing, including not get raped.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
I don't even understand how that's possible. He's a piece of shit. There is no remotely believable way for him to redeem himself.
That's a horseshit parallel and you know it.
| Praxis |
Banned
Yep, the changes are shit. Complete shit.
youbastards
Member
hendersonhank
Member
Time to do it? You miss the point, the entire objective is to make this marriage and be the Wardeness of the North. There is no marriage without consummation, that's how it works. Not consummated = not married = not Wardeness of the North.
I don't think people telling a story should change the story they want to tell to better please the audience.
It's not the inverse. This (making this marriage) is basically the first thing Sansa has done toward building a future for herself. And Sansa's plot did not "work well" in the books, she didn't do a goddamn thing in 5 books.
Riposte
Member
As usual, "lazy" simply means "I don't like it" or "it offends my sensibilities". Putting this part into their deeply intricate plot is lazy because they didn't go the extra mile in pleasing you or contribute to your ideal world.
WrenchNinja
Member
It sounds pretty applicable with the weird jumping through hoops to not call a duck a duck.
She traveled there because Petyr told her that she could get her home back. A marriage requires a consummation, but it doesn't need to be immediate as seen with Tyrion. The writers have been making shit up the entire series, even more so with this season, there's nothing that necessitated the marriage and intercourse happen at all.
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah but you were offered a way to build her character without rape and sai but what about the guy.
Besides rape as motivation to be badass or whatever is also over done.
That's my point if you are making the argument that she knows it has to happen? Then you play it as a ultimate test of will, she goes into something she hates, something that is awful but she does it, not by screaming or crying. Again if this had to happen for her plan play it as part of her plan, instead of screaming and crying.
Which is another things the writers have written! They have the power to not write these things and not create the scenario where the only solution is "whelp, gotta have Sansa get raped here". I don't even think this was the only way to take what they've written, either. This was a choice they made, not some inevitable conclusion to a story they have no control over.
So... let's saturate entertainment with it as well? None of the previous rapes in this show have actually dealt with the damage it's caused. Rape is thrown in to be a brutal bad thing just to be brutal and bad. You wouldn't see this outrage if people had confidence the showrunners could actually make this something beyond a scene of indulgence.
GrandHarrier
Member
I mean. A lot of fucked up shit has happened in the show. Theon has been abused in almost every conceivable and possible way. He was basically raped himself. I don't think I ever saw anyone call out the show for what happened to him.
Yes, because as I said the scene affects BOTH their characters.
I didn't say anything about being badass. It's a catalyst for change.
The Silver
Member
you do that and you completely lose the Theon aspect of him finally reaching his breaking point
and again the reason this is so bad for Sansa is BECAUSE Theon was there watching it all. She knew from the very beginning that she would have to have sex with Ramsey willingly or not. Watch that scene again and notice that what finally breaks her out of her stoic mindset is when Ramsey made Theon watch.
you understand that ramsey is a man who flays people for fun and hunts his exes with dogs right? while tyrion is gentle guy who didnt want to marry sansa in the first place?
people are acting like this is somehow out of Ramsey's character to do.
Tyrion was a very odd case, and wasn't normal at all in this universe. He got a lot of shit from daddy and others for not having sex with her. To expect the same thing from Ramsey is hilarious.
We've actually seen the horrific results of that torture and what it has done to his character! The rapes have just been window dressing or forgotten!
What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how many people are, or are not complaining. What matters is the criticism itself. You argued because many girls hate it they should listen. That argument has no merit to me.
nelsonroyale
Member
What rape was that? It can't possibly the scene with Jaime is it? I don't think that can be compared to this at all...
So it's an appeal to the masses? Look up logical fallacies, and then get back to me. I'll wait.
Hari Seldon
Member
I thought the scene was well acted and I appreciate how the show is condensing shit from the books. I dunno what to say about those who want to stop watching, fine I guess? I mean this is historical fantasy, but there are plenty of actual historical events far worse than anything in Game of Thrones.
Naughty_Doge
Member
Honeslty, knowing Ramsey I thought it would be much worse, but nothing was even shown as opposed to Dany's scene in the first season.
The only time where I thought the show might have gone too far was that scene with the King's Guard soldier stabbing a newborn baby.
The only time where I thought the show might have gone too far was that scene with the King's Guard soldier stabbing a newborn baby.
They are staying true to the time period that this fantasy world is based on. Stab a wounded child in the heart who is begging to be carried? Sure! Off screen rape? Unacceptable! Attachement has nithing to do with it either. Ned getting his head chopped off was horrific as well. Game of Thrones is staying true to form. I hope they don't make it pg-13 because of the complaints. The depravity of this show presses home certain plot elements and points. Let art reflect life for those who can stomach it.
That said my girfriend and I were pretty glum after the ending of the episode. But a show that evokes appropriate emotions for what it is depicting is a damn good one in my opinion.
That said my girfriend and I were pretty glum after the ending of the episode. But a show that evokes appropriate emotions for what it is depicting is a damn good one in my opinion.
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