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[Kinitari]

And you didn't need rape to do any of this. If that's D+D's point, it's still lazy writing.

I mean, think about it: if Sansa hates Theon because she believes he killed her younger brothers, how does her being raped change that? How does rape logically create that bond in a way their mutual hatred of the Bolton's wouldn't have? People are arguing that this makes sense because the show is saying, "this makes sense." But it doesn't make sense.

Also, not all controversy is good controversy. The conversation this episode generated is not the sort that makes people go "Oh, That Game of Thrones show sounds so good! Female rape as an overused plot device, let me check that out!"

You do need rape if you want to put Sansa's character through rape though, simple as that. The same way you need to chop off Jaime's hand if you want to have Jaime's character to be without a hand. I mean, it's not that they just want him to miss a hand, it's that they want to cripple him by removing some fundamental part of his being, and they (he really, add this is canon) want his character to grow and change from it. They could use some other plot device to humble him, they could just make him have a few epiphanies here or there either. The process of him having his hand removed changed his dynamic with Brianne and seeing the brutality of it was shocking and a reminder to the audience that even characters we start to appreciate in our own ways can suddenly have things happen to them that surprise us.

Sansa as a character has so far remained relatively unscathed, having her lose her virginity to a monster she married is such a big turning point in her character and her environment. The bond between her and Theon doesn't have to be some cookie cutter "enemy of the enemy" cliche, but can be a different sort of bond. Not even a good or healthy bond, but a profoundly complicated one. How does Sansa look him in the eye now? How does he? How does this change their relationship and dynamic? These are extremely interesting questions we can ask ourselves now, that we couldn't without this plot device. I have seen bonds where two enemies join forces to thwart evil and over time learn to appreciate each other, or some variant of that, but I have never seen something like this happen for. The opportunity this provides the story is very unique and can go in a lot of interesting places.

 

[Lothar]

Here's how she can use what she's learned throughout these seasons to help her in Winterfell.

-Give birth to Ramsay's child, and love that child. Raise that child to be different from the monsters she's known. Start a legacy that will fill the north with Stark children, and call them Stark after the wretched Boltons are dead and gone.
-Ally herself with other northern houses and betray the Boltons just as the Boltons betrayed her family.
-Use Littlefinger's army for protection from foreigners.
-Convince Roose Bolton that the Freys were the real traitors. Use one enemy to kill another.

Let's look at the people around her. We have Brienne and Pod wanting to rescue her, we have Theon who is on the verge of breaking and redeeming himself, we have a candle that she can burn if she's in trouble - which wouldn't have been mentioned if it wasn't going to be used.

Do you actually think she's going to do any of that stuff you listed and isn't going to need to be rescued by one or all of these people in the immediate future?

I think you're looking at this way wrong believing she has any power. LF didn't realize how bad Ramsay was. They made a point to mentioning that. What I take away from the rape scene and I think almost everyone takes from it is she's not prepared for this at all. She's not going to be manipulating Roose Bolton to go fight battles. She can't even get Theon out of her bedroom.

 

[Speevy]

Let's look at the people around her. We have Brienne and Pod wanting to rescue her, we have Theon who is on the verge of breaking and redeeming himself, we have a candle that she can burn if she's in trouble - which wouldn't have been mentioned if it wasn't going to be used.

Do you actually think she's going to do any of that stuff you listed and isn't going to need to be rescued by one or all of these people in the immediate future?

I think you're looking at this way wrong believing she has any power. LF didn't realize how bad Ramsay was. They made a point to mentioning that. What I take away from the rape scene and I think almost everyone takes from it is she's not prepared for this at all. She's not going to be manipulating Roose Bolton to go fight battles. She can't even get Theon out of her bedroom.

I think that if Sansa ends up escaping Winterfell and going on a two character road trip without playing any more of the political game, I would be sorely disappointed.

Do you honestly think the last surviving Stark that anyone knows about being in Winterfell has zero implications in the political story?

 

[Metroxed]

I feel the need to repost this, because some many people are really missing the point.

By the way, where were the lot of you when Theon was getting dehumanized, raped and mutilated?

Up to the after-wedding scene, we were led to believe that Ramsay would be nice (or at least nicer) to Sansa than what he is to other people. "I'll never hurt her" or "I want you to be happy" were repeated and Littlefinger said to Sansa "He's already fallen for you". We could've though that Sansa status as a Stark protected her from being attacked while she was with the Boltons, who need her for her name. This scene breaks with that previous and brief Sansa-Ramsay characterisation, showing us not only that yes, he is still the pyschopath we knew he was, but also that he will be acting as such with Sansa now that she's his "property", because let's not fool ourselves, that's how marriages work in Westeros. It was Ramsay's way of proving her that he is the one with the actual power, and not her as she (or even us) might've thought up to that point.

As a side point, I'd like to say that most likely 99% of pre-arranged marriages in Westeros have a first night just like this one, so it is not like this was something special or something you would not expect to happen during your first night, given that Sansa didn't even resist (and could have, like when she resisted when she was about to be raped by that mob seasons back) and I think she knew full well what was going to happen. With this I mean that what happened is rape by our standards but not by their standards.

I think many people are confusing "bad writing" with just their personal reaction/shock to what happened. "Something bad happened to a character I like, that cannot be, this is bad writing". It's not the first time something bad happens to good characters. Get over it.

 

[Lothar]

I think that if Sansa ends up escaping Winterfell and going on a two character road trip without playing any more of the political game, I would be sorely disappointed.

Do you honestly think the last surviving Stark that anyone knows about being in Winterfell has zero implications in the political story?

I'm sure after she's rescued, Littlefinger will find another way to use her for his own benefit.

 

[royalan]

I think many people are confusing "bad writing" with just their personal reaction/shock to what happened. "Something bad happened to a character I like, that cannot be, this is bad writing". It's not the first time something bad happens to good characters. Get over it.

Ummm, lets not pretend that Sansa was a fan favorite. A lot of people don't like Sansa. Hell, I don't like Sansa. For most people, this has nothing to do with "wahh! a bad thing happened to a character I like!" And I think so many people have gone to great lengths to explain this in this very thread that if you feel that that's where the anger is coming from, then you're not really paying attention to what people are saying.

And, in response to your use of the GRRM quote, again I ask: where are all the male rape scenes? Male rape as a form of humiliation was a common occurrence in ancient wars. So, if this is really about creating a believable world and staying true to it, where is the depiction of that reality? Why is rape depicted in only one way on this show?

 

[Jackson]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.

 

[Chopper]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.

Ha ha.

Also, "I don't like it, so it's bad, lazy writing!" is the most infuriating argument ever.

 

[evil ways]

So, how many people were outraged and disgusted when Khal Drogo and Daenerys consummated their marriage. It was still a 7 ft. Barbarian manhandling a virging underage girl. But I guess it's acceptable cause they later fell in love right?

 

[orioto]

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

I fear back in the medieval age, and probably even far longer after that, a woman being forced to marry a man, and having to lay down for the nuptial night, was soooo fucking common you wouldn't believe (and it's probably still in some countries).

This scene is really about Sansa assuming responsibilities and suffering the tough fate of many women in a really fucked up time and world.

I have more problems with the whole Theon situation, cause it's right there in the show's habit of creating moral or physical torture scenes to create drama, which is slightly tiring after some time.

So yeah again, marital rape, or women having to perform sex with a husband they don't love, not in the most pleasant way, was basically the norm in those times. People are shocked that there little Sansa had to go though it, but that's the point i think. She couldn't stay unharmed and immaculate forever in that fucked up world of game of Throne, like probably her mother before her and many other womens.

 

[Metroxed]

And, in response to your use of the GRRM quote, again I ask: where are all the male rape scenes? Male rape as a form of humiliation was a common occurrence in ancient wars. So, if this is really about creating a believable world and staying true to it, where is the depiction of that reality? Why is rape depicted in only one way on this show?

Male rape and rape of small children is hinted several times in the show. Plus, we should add male genital mutilation, which is a sexual aggression of sorts and usually both displayed and hinted. While female rape has been a far more common theme, sexual mutilation has almost exclusively done to men.

Varys was cut when he was a small child. When he tells Tyrion the story about the man who castrated him (I think season 3) he says something like "I thought he was going to use me like some men use little boys". Plus during season 1 Littlefinger hints at the existence of boy-prostitutes.

When Arya is passing as a boy on season 2, one of Jaquen H'ghar cellmates tells her "I would take that stick and fuck you bloody with it". Of course, Arya is a girl, but she's passing as a boy (Arry), which shows that had she actually been a boy and the man had been freed, he might have raped him anyway (despite not being a woman).

All the Unsullied are castrated, which in my opinion is a sexual agression just as bad, if not worse, as raping. This has left them (although the slavers say otherwise) emotionally broken, as it is displayed on this season when two Unsullied visit a brothel just for female company and affection (not sex).

Theon is almost raped by Ramsay's guards during the escape scene (he was as close to being raped as Sansa was in season 2). Afterwards during his incarceration he is raped by two women, who stripped him naked and attacked him sexually (despite him telling them to stop), just to be castrated soon thereafter.

So no, sexual aggression is not shown in "only one way" on this show. Definitely not.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Male rape and rape of small children is hinted several times in the show. Plus, we should add male genital mutilation, which is a sexual aggression of sorts and usually both displayed and hinted. While female rape has been a far more common theme, sexual mutilation has almost exclusively done to men.

Varys was cut when he was a small child. When he tells Tyrion the story about the man who castrated him (I think season 3) he says something like "I thought he was going to use me like some men use little boys". Plus during season 1 Littlefinger hints at the existence of boy-prostitutes.

When Arya is passing as a boy on season 2, one of Jaquen H'ghar cellmates tells her "I would take that stick and fuck you bloody with it". Of course, Arya is a girl, but she's passing as a boy (Arry), which shows that had she actually been a boy and the man had been freed, he might have raped him anyway (despite not being a woman).

All the Unsullied are castrated, which in my opinion is a sexual agression just as bad, if not worse, as raping. This has left them (although the slavers say otherwise) emotionally broken, as it is displayed on this season when two Unsullied visit a brothel just for female company and affection (not sex).

Theon is almost raped by Ramsay's guards during the escape scene (he was as close to being raped as Sansa was in season 2). Afterwards during his incarceration he is raped by two women, who stripped him naked and attacked him sexually (despite him telling them to stop), just to be castrated soon thereafter.

So no, sexual aggression is not shown in "only one way" on this show. Definitely not.

Hinted is far cry from being acted out though. As in the case of female rapes in the series. Theon was abused thoroughly, no doubt. But never really penetrated.


Ps. I'm not in the boat of those against Ramsay being Ramsay. Just saying there's a disparity... is all.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

I think if everyone was okay with a rape scene, something would be wrong. There is no rape scene that will be handled to the satisfaction of everyone, just the way it should be. Looking in on this thread over and over, post after post, checking couple links shared, I find myself in the group who sees the value in the scene. It's easier to write it off as unnecessary, but then again, that's the weak argument. Bad writing is also weak.

Fun fact, I'm a season and a half behind. Haven't even seen the scene. It does sounds uncomfortable as shit though. Good thing it offends people. That's some progress in developing this kind of thing. It opens up a discussion like this and can help improve handling such sensitive material in the future. At least, that's how I see it. And I see this scene as something that makes sense. But eh, that's me.

 

[Irminsul]

Hinted is far cry from being acted out though. As in the case of female rapes in the series. Theon was abused thoroughly, no doubt. But never really penetrated.

I think he was, shortly before being castrated. Just as the post you quoted said.

 

[Chuckie]

I think he was, shortly before being castrated. Just as the post you quoted said.

Really? By whom? I totally missed that part apparently.

 

[tkscz]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.

Holy shit. How does one rape bother them but not this? I mean, rape is awful, yes, but the methods of torture here and child death/injuring should've rang some sort of bell if the rape scene did. At least to me it would. I also heard a prostitute got raped at some point in the show.

 

[Metroxed]

Hinted is far cry from being acted out though. As in the case of female rapes in the series. Theon was abused thoroughly, no doubt. But never really penetrated.


Ps. I'm not in the boat of those against Ramsay being Ramsay. Just saying there's a disparity... is all.

If there's no penetration then it isn't rape? He wasn't raped by the two guards, that was just attempt rape (prevented by Ramsay, all part of his mind games). But he was stripped naked, touched and even engaged in sexual positions with two women on his cell during his impisonment. He asked them to stop and they wouldn't. The camera angle didn't show whether there was an actual penetration, but I didn't know that was a requirement for it to be rape. It was a sexual assault that continued even when he asked for it to stop. What would you consider it to be?

And that wasn't hinted. It happened on screen.

If what happened to Sansa is somehow worse than what happened to Theon (rape plus castration), then we're being sexist. If anything, it'd be equally as bad (if we discount the castration, which in my opinion is worse than being just raped).

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

If there's no penetration then it isn't rape? He wasn't raped by the two guards, that was just attempt rape (prevented by Ramsay, all part of his mind games). But he was stripped naked, touched and even engaged in sexual positions with two women on his cell during his impisonment. He asked them to stop and they wouldn't. The camera angle didn't show whether there was an actual penetration, but I didn't know that was a requirement for it to be rape. It was a sexual assault that continued even when he asked for it to stop. What would you consider it to be?

And that wasn't hinted. It happened on screen.

If what happened to Sansa is somehow worse than what happened to Theon (rape plus castration), then we're being sexist. If anything, it'd be equally as bad (if we discount the castration, which in my opinion is worse than being just raped).

No, no. Not saying what happened to theon wasn't as bad. Hope this isn't some oppression Olympics kind of discussion. More just pointing that there's discrepancy of treatment between male and female characters. Specially in terms of how many female characters are shown (actually shown) abused and maybe only theon represented the male spectrum.

As far as I'm concerned, I think that rape scene was tame by ramsay's standard.

Spoiler

Also I'm a Ramsay fan, so my opinions can be a bit skewed. But I enjoy fantasticality in my fictions. Just a disclosure.

 

[Irminsul]

Really? By whom? I totally missed that part apparently.

By the two women who seemingly want to fuck him. At least that's the way I interpreted the scene.

 

[Zaph]

[IMG ]http://i.imgur.com/WSCmkP7.jpg[/IMG]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.

Of those issues listed, how many do you think we're still, as a developed society not in the middle of war, dealing with everyday? Daily, how many rapes go unreported or under investigated? How many people spend their lives with the mental scars because of the stigma around seeking help? How many of those issues are so normalised in our culture and lives that we're having to ban no.1 songs on campuses because it casually reinforces it?

Even if the story visited all those issues equally (which it doesn't) I can still understand why people would react poorly to depictions of sexual assault.

But don't fear, if you're ever found flayed on a stake, you'll be believed and it'll be fully investigated.

 

[Chuckie]

By the two women who seemingly want to fuck him. At least that's the way I interpreted the scene.

Oh yeah I know he was sexually assaulted by them. The post I was quoting suggested Theon was the one penetrated, so I had the idea I really missed something.

 

[Metroxed]

No, no. Not saying what happened to theon wasn't as bad. Hope this isn't some oppression Olympics kind of discussion. More just pointing that there's discrepancy of treatment between male and female characters. Specially in terms of how many female characters are shown (actually shown) abused and maybe only theon represented the male spectrum.

I get the point, but that can be applied to anything. How many female characters are shown to be killed on screen (actually shown) at any given GoT battle? How many men died during the Battle of the Blackwater and how many women in comparison? In the Battle of the Wall? I can only think of S04 spoilers

Spoiler

Ygritte

.

In GoT, just like in the real life, women are raped more often than men. At the same time, men are more likely to die in battle than women (especially in the Middle Ages, where women did not fight in battles).

So it isn't either like women are the only victims of aggression on this show. They are more often the victims of sexual agression (although men also are, as I've shown in my previous post), while men generally are more often victims of other, equally heinous types of agressions and violence. Although, both men and women have their fair share of violence and agression of any type (sexual or otherwise) on this show. We really cannot said some group is exempt or specially targeted. That's why I think all this drama for Sansa's rape is ridiculous.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

that none consensual sex

Show's been cheeks for a minute, will wait for next book

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I get the point, but that can be applied to anything. How many female characters are shown to be killed on screen (actually shown) at any given GoT battle? How many men died during the Battle of the Blackwater and how many women in comparison? In the Battle of the Wall? I can only think of S04 spoilers

Spoiler

Ygritte

.

In GoT, just like in the real life, women are raped more often than men. At the same time, men are more likely to die in battle than women (especially in the Middle Ages, where women did not fight in battles).

So it isn't either like women are the only victims of aggression on this show. They are more often the victims of sexual agression (although men also are, as I've shown in my previous post), while men generally are more often victims of other, equally heinous types of agressions and violence. Although, both men and women have their fair share of violence and agression of any type (sexual or otherwise) on this show. We really cannot said some group is exempt or specially targeted. That's why I think all this drama for Sansa's rape is ridiculous.

Yeah. But sometimes, it's like. "hey it's realistic cuz like it's what happened in the middle ages" then sometimes it's like "oh look. dragons."



I mean, author has all the reins in dictating where he wants the story to go to, right, what kind of 'atrocities' are visiting which characters. Cuz it's all fiction. So, GRRM can write 'realistically' and 'fantastically', and in his writings, he enjoys visiting violence more on men characters and sexual assaults on female characters. Which is fine. That's his schtick. But you know, spade is a spade.

 

[Ikael]

Critics of this scene that thinks that it is detrimental to Sansa's character arc and that resorting to rape is often used as a cheap shock value trown into a plot by mediocre writters might be into something.

Critics of this scene because rape is bad and therefore rape depiction in any medium is bad and never justifiable and sickening and oh god they jumped the shark of all things unacceptable, are wrong as fuck.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Critics of this scene that thinks that it is detrimental to Sansa's character arc and that resorting to rape is often used as a cheap shock value trown into a plot by mediocre writters might be into something.

Critics of this scene because rape is bad and therefore rape depiction in any medium is bad and never justifiable and sickening and oh god they jumped the shark of all things unacceptable, are wrong as fuck.

haha ya. verily.

 

[Tuffty]

The one time rape was just added as part of a scene which I felt was really unnecessary was the Night's Watch mutineers raping Craster's daughters. Like, we've seen them kill Mormont and fight their fellow Watchmen just so they can take over a man's food and home and even seen their 'leader' drink wine from Mormon's fucking skull. They're not nice people, we get it.

 

[Ratrat]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.

This is dumb. It's about pointless yet major changes from the books that feel cheap. There was also massive backlash for Barristans death just a few weeks ago.

I'm sure there are some clueless unsullied who had their tender sensibilities hurt by the scene. But the vast majority of hate is coming from readers whose issue is with the plot and character arc. It's not even about her virginity or rape. Having Sansa being tortured similar to her treatment by Joffrey would have been just as regressive to her chracter.

And it's even easier to come to this conclusion because we have an idea of the out come, she is merely being a Jeyne substitute for a season. She's being relegated to a device in Theons redemption.

 

[RELIGHT]

The outrage here is hilarious to me. This is really one of the tamest scenes on the show. We never even see the rape. I really do not know what people expected. Sansa has dodged this rape bullet for a while. It's shocking that Joffrey never had his way with her and she got lucky that they made her marry Tyrion and not someone else. Sansa is in a really dangerous position right now and we winter is still coming.

 

[Ratrat]

Was it the writers intention for Sansa to continue being the biggest idiot in Westeros?

 

[Raist]

I really have no idea how the way that scene was depicted can be considered as "trivializing rape".

 

[Grimm Fandango]

I assumed wrongly that the show was going to portray her as a transformed stronger character, that since Littlefinger told her to make the Ramsay boy yours she was going to somehow make Ramsay hers, and that Littlefinger was telling her the truth when he said Ramsay had fallen for her.

You don't have to say any of this is bad, but the show had clearly been showing her as a transformed character and now she's a victim again. That is a shock.

I'd say there has been a running theme of the Stark children thinking they have learned something and be happy about it only to have it backfire. And as a few people have said before, the show is constantly about setting expectations and breaking them.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I feel the need to repost this, because some many people are really missing the point.

By the way, where were the lot of you when Theon was getting dehumanized, raped and mutilated?

Up to the after-wedding scene, we were led to believe that Ramsay would be nice (or at least nicer) to Sansa than what he is to other people. "I'll never hurt her" or "I want you to be happy" were repeated and Littlefinger said to Sansa "He's already fallen for you". We could've though that Sansa status as a Stark protected her from being attacked while she was with the Boltons, who need her for her name. This scene breaks with that previous and brief Sansa-Ramsay characterisation, showing us not only that yes, he is still the pyschopath we knew he was, but also that he will be acting as such with Sansa now that she's his "property", because let's not fool ourselves, that's how marriages work in Westeros. It was Ramsay's way of proving her that he is the one with the actual power, and not her as she (or even us) might've thought up to that point.

As a side point, I'd like to say that most likely 99% of pre-arranged marriages in Westeros have a first night just like this one, so it is not like this was something special or something you would not expect to happen during your first night, given that Sansa didn't even resist (and could have, like when she resisted when she was about to be raped by that mob seasons back) and I think she knew full well what was going to happen. With this I mean that what happened is rape by our standards but not by their standards.

I think many people are confusing "bad writing" with just their personal reaction/shock to what happened. "Something bad happened to a character I like, that cannot be, this is bad writing". It's not the first time something bad happens to good characters. Get over it.

Martin has an inordinate fixation with focusing on those aspects however...As I mentioned before...its either rape or prostitutes. Very little standard sexual activity going on. Most of it is superficial or abusive.

Also, I think you can flip what you said in the last section. You are giving the writing a pass because you like the way the narrative has played out. The story thread with Sansa going to the Boltans is bad writing.

 

[Demon Ice]

http://i.imgur.com/WSCmkP7.jpg[IMG]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.[/QUOTE]

Yep. You have to have a strangely compartmentalized mind to be so disproportionately offended by a single atrocity in a show that's literally full of atrocities.

Where's that gif of Ramsey saying "if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

 

[GameGuru59]

As far as I'm concerned, I think that rape scene was tame by ramsay's standard.

Yeah, seeing how Ramsay's acted in the past, I thought the scene was going to be much worse.

But don't fear, if you're ever found flayed on a stake, you'll be believed and it'll be fully investigated.*

*If you're white and live in an urban area

Black guy rolled up in a gym floor mat? Not worth the police's time.

 

[Dude Abides]

Yep. You have to have a strangely compartmentalized mind to be so disproportionately offended by a single atrocity in a show that's literally full of atrocities.

Where's that gif of Ramsey saying "if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

You don't have to have a compartmentalized anything to dislike cheesy writing.

 

[mantidor]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.

This shit is so disingenuous my head hurts.

 

[Ratrat]

If you were expecting great writing you haven't been paying attention.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I don't like it = it's bad writing

Got it.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You don't have to have a compartmentalized anything to dislike cheesy writing.

What was "cheesy" about it?

People have been saying that but it usually consists of, "she was raped." Scene was fine. Wasn't exceptional or horrible. This seems more like a complaint to be "OK" with the scene while still taking pot shots.

 

[Demon Ice]

You don't have to have a compartmentalized anything to dislike cheesy writing.

Sure, and if the cheesy writing had been the primary source of contention and uproar, your post would be relevant.

This shit is so disingenuous my head hurts.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Mighty Chin]

Some people really love beating their outrage to death.

 

[Ratrat]

I don't like it = it's bad writing

Got it.

I don't have time to elaborate on how dumb Littlefinger and Sansa's Northern Adventure is so just refer to the Dorne plot for now.

 

[Transhuman]

Martin has an inordinate fixation with focusing on those aspects however...As I mentioned before...its either rape or prostitutes. Very little standard sexual activity going on. Most of it is superficial or abusive.

It's a fantasy series about the ambiguity of right-and-wrong, self-justification of immorality, and the relationship between love and familial marital obligations. Yes, there's gong to be rape.

Some people really love beating their outrage to death.

Better not let the door rape them on the way out.

 

[Lothar]

This sums up my thoughts rather well. Like... It's all super bad.

That says more about the lack of intelligence of whoever make that picture than anything else. There's been lots of rape in the show too and people were ok with it. Look at Creaster's Keep. People are more bothered by this. Perhaps then they have reasons other than show has rape = bad.

 

[Demon Ice]

I don't have time to elaborate on how dumb Littlefinger and Sansa's Northern Adventure is so just refer to the Dorne plot for now.

One aspect of the show is poorly written = whole show is poorly written. Gotcha.

Yes, the Dorne plot is shit. But I find the Tyrion-Jorah, Arya in Braavos, and Jon Snow plotlines to be excellent still.

And again, none of this has anything to do with the scene that people are so offended about.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

But Craster's Keep was pretty much worse by every single metric imaginable. There was no need to include that, because it cannot possibly develop any characters involved because a) we already know that the mutineers are terrible people and b) none of the victims are characters to be developed. I don't understand how you can claim that Ramsay's rape of Sansa is narratively less justified than the victims of the Craster's Keep mutiny.

 

[Loki]

Compared to some of the other brutal and depraved shit which has been portrayed in the show over the past seasons, I actually thought that scene wasn't all that harrowing and certainly wasn't very graphic or explicit.

This. Theon gets his balls cut off and no one bats an eye.

 

[Demon Ice]

This. Theon gets his balls cut off and no one bats an eye.

He gets that done to him literally after being raped too.

Maybe the offended people hadn't gotten into the show yet, that happened a while ago. GoT is really mainstream now so there's a lot more viewers coming in with the mindset that this is just another typical fantasy show where the good guy always wins at the end of every episode and all the major characters have plot armor.

 

[Ratrat]

One aspect of the show is poorly written = whole show is poorly written. Gotcha.

Yes, the Dorne plot is shit. But I find the Tyrion-Jorah, Arya in Braavos, and Jon Snow plotlines to be excellent still.

And again, none of this has anything to do with the scene that people are so offended about.

The rape is a part of Jeyne Pooles story. It's a symptom of lazily patching two separate plots together without much thought. It just kind of sealed the deal. They are taking this awful mess to that conclusion.
It could have at least been good television if they had put more thought into it. But ignoring the affect on Sansa, it's still idiotic and illogical(Littlefinger and Sansas actions).

Also there are quite a few other examples of bad writing in past seasons as well as the current one.