Devil May Cry 4 SE: Vergil, Trish & Lady Playable, Release Date 18th of June

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I never finished 3 and dint even play 2 but I did beat part 1 multiple times. Can I jump into this game without being confused or feeling I missed anything?

You should go back to 3 since it's one of the greatest action games of all time, but otherwise you're not going to be completely lost.

There are little nods and throwbacks in DMC4 that make more sense given some background context of DMC3, but the story is mostly self contained. No reference to anything DMC2 related, so you're safe there.
 

Sectus

Member
They'll be showing off Dante in the Capcom Unity stream in a couple of hours. I think they said yesterday there won't be anything new to Special Edition shown.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Stream in 4 minutes! They say there aren't any changes, but we can still ask him to test stuff out. He might show us the alternate costumes/palette swaps if there isn't anything else new.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
http://www.twitch.tv/capcomunity/v/5260040 - Archive of the stream from yesterday.

They show off Dante's new costume, and there's not really anything else of interest. Well, I guess they do reveal some lore behind the game''s title. The devil does indeed cry once he sees gregaman play as Dante.

Haha, Grega man tried his heart out. He almost had it.

It doesn't look like there were any height restriction changes to his moves. I tried asking about the dice game, but I don't think they saw it. There's always next week.
 

Sectus

Member
Haha, Grega man tried his heart out. He almost had it.

It doesn't look like there were any height restriction changes to his moves. I tried asking about the dice game, but I don't think they saw it. There's always next week.

I don't blame him. Dante is absurdly complex in DMC4. I think the only way I started becoming decent as Dante was when I started to ignore some of his weapons and styles, so I could focus on a smaller set of moves.
 
I don't blame him. Dante is absurdly complex in DMC4. I think the only way I started becoming decent as Dante was when I started to ignore some of his weapons and styles, so I could focus on a smaller set of moves.
He should have just spammed devil trigger stinger.. but I understand he was trying to be stylish.
 
I don't blame him. Dante is absurdly complex in DMC4. I think the only way I started becoming decent as Dante was when I started to ignore some of his weapons and styles, so I could focus on a smaller set of moves.


he's 4 action game characters in one, but I am determined to git gud with him.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I don't blame him. Dante is absurdly complex in DMC4. I think the only way I started becoming decent as Dante was when I started to ignore some of his weapons and styles, so I could focus on a smaller set of moves.

Yeah I'm definitely not giving him grief over it. He was trying to do too much and it was getting him killed. Nero should be a lot easier to show off with next stream.
 
I don't blame him. Dante is absurdly complex in DMC4. I think the only way I started becoming decent as Dante was when I started to ignore some of his weapons and styles, so I could focus on a smaller set of moves.
I ain't gonna lie. I played Dante like it was DMC 3 and stayed in Swordmaster the whole time.
 
http://www.twitch.tv/capcomunity/v/5260040 - Archive of the stream from yesterday.

They show off Dante's new costume, and there's not really anything else of interest. Well, I guess they do reveal some lore behind the game''s title. The devil does indeed cry once he sees gregaman play as Dante.

Ah man I completely forgot about this. I feel asleep :(

The Femme Fatales of Devil May Cry 4 SE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdxLb-zl5x8

Awesome

I ain't gonna lie. I played Dante like it was DMC 3 and stayed in Swordmaster the whole time.

Trickster <3
 
I don't think I'll ever get close to competent with Dante, but I can at least now competently switch styles, after a year kappa.
Anyone think DMC4:SE will have paid dlc?
 

Dahbomb

Member
I don't think I'll ever get close to competent with Dante, but I can at least now competently switch styles, after a year kappa.
Anyone think DMC4:SE will have paid dlc?
Probably just Lady/Trish costumes available as paid DLC if you didn't pre-order. Beyond that is highly unlikely.
 

Sectus

Member
It's a very short cutscene, but I like that they simply replaced Nero with Lady for that snow cutscene introducing the frosts. Hopefully there's more instances like that where we get to see Lady/Trish/Vergil briefly in some small cutscenes rather than just the intro and outro.
 

Dahbomb

Member
With the amount of time some people put into DMC4, makes me wish more people watched DMC combo vids... Some day..
Two DMC4 combo videos are above 800K views.

There's a DMC3 combo video that is above 3 million views. That to me always shocks me.


If you have 10 years in ya, you can look forward to the day of being called a "good" DMC4 Dante player.

Nobody's even been good with DMC4 Dante. They've just been various degrees of "less ass"
Sounds about right.

Fact: Chuck Norris' favorite video game character is DMC4 Dante. It's the only thing that Chuck Norris has not mastered in his life.
 

Frantic

Member
I've finally regained most of my DMC4 skills, and am probably better than I was before. I'm pretty passable with Dante(on a good day, anyway), but yeah... being good with DMC4 Dante isn't happening anytime soon.

DMC4 Dante makes me really curious how DMC5 Dante will actually end up being.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I don't see there being any possibility other than DMC4 Dante being nerfed in terms of option.

Best thing they can do is to just incorporate the Trickster/Gunslinger/Royal Guard mechanics into the base combat system. It's theoretically possible, you just have to move the Devil Trigger button somewhere else and make O the Swordmaster button like DmC.

I had a whole system laid out for it before. It was basically this:

O: Swordmaster moves
R1+L1: Royal Guard modifier. When pressed by itself with Lock On it functions exactly like the O button if you switched to Royal Guard.

R1+X+Forward/Back : Trick Forward and Trick back.
R1+X+Left/Right : Table Hopper dash (basically faster dodge because dodge rolls are slow and if they want to push DMC further they need more aggressive enemies and that means faster dodges to get back into the action)

L1 + X + direction on ground : Trickster Dash in any direction you want
L1 + X + direction in the air : Star Dash in any direction


R1+[]+Forward/Back (hold) : Basically Gunslinger moves like they work for Trish's Pandora in DMC4SE. Then can do some [] + X moves for Gunslinger moves if they really want as well, it certainly works.

L1 + [] : Specialist stationary Gunslinger moves like Two Some Time if you really need the slots.


D-Pad directions could be different usage of Devil Triggers (Up standard DT, Left Quicksilver, Right Spiral Swords type thing, Down Doppelganger) or it could swap weapon load outs completely though that would result in complexity in higher than DMC4 Dante.
 
D-Pad directions could be different usage of Devil Triggers (Up standard DT, Left Quicksilver, Right Spiral Swords type thing, Down Doppelganger) or it could swap weapon load outs completely though that would result in complexity in higher than DMC4 Dante.
I think the latter is an added complexity I wouldn't mind because I wouldn't have to worry about changing weapons on top of style switching, which was too demanding on my brain to keep track of in any battle in DMC4. If I could access four weapon sets that I can customize beforehand and switch between as opposed to cycling through them all on a single trigger, I'd be down.

Still, I am all for incorporating the style moves into the regular controls.
 

Frantic

Member
Your scheme is pretty good, but I feel like having Air Trick as a basic R1 + Forward + X will make getting a simple jump forward or a double jump forward without using Air Trick first really obtuse(unless I'm missing something). What if I don't want to use Air Trick and just want to double jump towards my opponent since I'm not that far? Do I let go of Lock On? That's not the most intuitive thing in the world, especially if there are a lot of enemies around - I might end up locking onto the wrong enemy afterward. Personally, I'd rather Trickster be its own dedicated button and behave mostly as-is, rather than having Swordmaster be a dedicated button. Swordmaster moves can be put behind the Royal Guard "stance" instead, imo(especially since most Swordmaster moves are combo moves rather than being important "neutral" moves, and this is assuming they move Aerial Rave to /\ normally rather than being a swordmaster move, which they should do). Plus, if the enemies are supposed to be more aggressive, dodging and moving should be as simple as possible, which having dedicated button would certainly help with.

But really, I just want to see what Itsuno and his team will have come up with for Dante after being away from the series for seven years. DMC4:SE Vergil looks fantastic, and I just want to know what they'll do with Dante after so long. :<
 

Dahbomb

Member
You just let go of the lock on if you want to position yourself with a jump.

There are very few instances in DMC where you want to jump towards the enemy with a double jump.. Air Trick is almost always a better option. It's why Vergil also gets away with not having a double jump all the time.


You are right in having a dedicated dodge button so that it's easier to dodge (like Bayonetta/DmC) but using Royal Guard + Triangle for Swordmaster moves could be a bit clunky if you start incorporating in lock on. The Dashes work with the RG command because you don't need lock on for them.

Is it doable? Yes but it's a bit clunky so you are trading being able to use Dashes with L1+X instead of O for having to use R1+ L1 + Triangle to use Swordmaster moves.


For the record, L1+X is the same command for doing evasive dashes in NG2. It works well in that game so this isn't an entirely new concept here.
 

Frantic

Member
There are very few instances in DMC where you want to jump towards the enemy with a double jump.. Air Trick is almost always a better option. It's why Vergil also gets away with not having a double jump all the time.
Well, there are times when you just need air time while still moving forward or backward a little. Not to mention Air Trick isn't immediately cancelable like a jump, and sometimes you will want to save your Air Trick for after the airtime you get from a jump. I just feel like it's obtuse, and would require a fair amount of getting used to when going from the previous games that is needless. Plus, Vergil's Air Trick is a lot different than Dante's, so I don't think they're that comparable.

Is it doable? Yes but it's a bit clunky so you are trading being able to use Dashes with L1+X instead of O for having to use R1+L1 + Triangle to use Swordmaster moves.
I suppose, but I would still prefer having a dedicated dodge/airdash/teleport button, personally.

Late Edit: Also, wasn't NG2(and NG1) dodges just L1 + tap direction? It's been a long time since I played it, but that's what I remember it being. That's more intuitive than L1+X+direction, imo.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I think l1+x sounds less intuitive than it is. It would just take an adjustment. The same adjustment people made with stinger vs manually controlling your attacks towards an enemy. Lock on dexterity has always played an important role in DMC.

Also yeah, I do believe that ng dodge was just block+tap direction.
 

Sectus

Member
I have a theory as to why DMC4: SE takes so much more space than DMC4, and it's really mundane and boring.

In DMC4, every cutscene with Nero, Dante, Lady, or Trish, have their models as part of the cutscene archive. That means there's a lot of redundancy, but it has the advantage of slightly faster loading times. Now then, if you wanted to replace Nero's cutscene model, you'd have to modify many duplicates of it in various cutscene archives, which is a huge hassle.

Maybe Capcom didn't properly get around that problem (which would be surprising, it must have been doable to have the game load them separately), and there's now duplicated versions of most cutscene archives depending on which costume you've got selected. It would also explain why the Lady and Trish costume DLC takes so much space, as 2 costumes should not take nearly as much as 230mb (a player model and textures in DMC4 takes around 30mb uncompressed).
 
I have a theory as to why DMC4: SE takes so much more space than DMC4, and it's really mundane and boring.

In DMC4, every cutscene with Nero, Dante, Lady, or Trish, have their models as part of the cutscene archive. That means there's a lot of redundancy, but it has the advantage of slightly faster loading times. Now then, if you wanted to replace Nero's cutscene model, you'd have to modify many duplicates of it in various cutscene archives, which is a huge hassle.

Maybe Capcom didn't properly get around that problem (which would be surprising, it must have been doable to have the game load them separately), and there's now duplicated versions of most cutscene archives depending on which costume you've got selected. It would also explain why the Lady and Trish costume DLC takes so much space, as 2 costumes should not take nearly as much as 230mb (a player model and textures in DMC4 takes around 30mb uncompressed).

Isn't DMC4 like 22 GB on PS3? Considering this gen most developers are not compressing anything because of the bigger disc size, it's probable this is the reason DMC4:SE is so big
 
You should go back to 3 since it's one of the greatest action games of all time, but otherwise you're not going to be completely lost.

There are little nods and throwbacks in DMC4 that make more sense given some background context of DMC3, but the story is mostly self contained. No reference to anything DMC2 related, so you're safe there.
I really hope the new one is as fun as that one. I recently unlocked Super Sparda and Super Corrupt Vergil in that game. Then I unlocked Super Dante in DMC1. So good.
 

Sectus

Member
Isn't DMC4 like 22 GB on PS3? Considering this gen most developers are not compressing anything because of the bigger disc size, it's probable this is the reason DMC4:SE is so big

I don't know the filesize of DMC4 on PS3, but I'll be surprised if it's very different from xbox 360. I know RE5, RE6, and many other Capcom games had very similar filesize between xbox 360 and ps3.

I heard some people talk all about uncompressed assets for next gen games, are there many examples of this? I know Titanfall uses uncompressed audio, but that's for performance reasons rather than quality, and I haven't heard of any other example. It seems unlikely developers would commonly keep everything uncompressed when the quality difference would be very minor, and the filesize would increase drastically.
 
I don't see there being any possibility other than DMC4 Dante being nerfed in terms of option.

Best thing they can do is to just incorporate the Trickster/Gunslinger/Royal Guard mechanics into the base combat system. It's theoretically possible, you just have to move the Devil Trigger button somewhere else and make O the Swordmaster button like DmC.

<snip>

I don't think they need to *nerf* DMC4 Dante specifically, but some overall streamlining of a lot of the existing moveset would both make him feel more complex and put a lot more moves within easier reach - DMC4 Dante has too many moves that are unnecessarily multiple button presses away for my liking, like tons of the Gunslinger move set obviously.

I'd be down for 'nerfing' Dante only in terms of going back to DMC3's system of having you equip two Devil Arms and two firearms between chapters/at time god statues (but having far more than three of each of those to draw from) - the triple weapon swapping thing in DMC4 opens up some neat possibilities but goes too far in terms of introducing barriers to newer players, IMO. I wouldn't consider that a nerf so much as a sidestep back toward a different choice that DMC3 made, offloading some of the complexity to the picking-a-loadout process but not necessarily getting rid of complexity altogether.

But yeah, if a bunch of the Trickster/RG/Gunslinger stuff got moved into the existing moveset wherever possible, that'd put more moves within reach and, in an ideal world, make DMC4-Dante-style play more accessible to people (by simplifying the controls for certain moves) while also (by increasing the total moveset and allowing even more interesting things to get added to the Style button) raising the skill ceiling even higher.

DMC4 Dante's level of complexity is incredible, but I'd argue that Nero's skill curve is a lot better designed - I think DMC5 Dante could ideally improve on both.
 

Son Of D

Member
Isn't DMC4 like 22 GB on PS3? Considering this gen most developers are not compressing anything because of the bigger disc size, it's probable this is the reason DMC4:SE is so big

PC version is 7.5GB approximately so I've assumed that the PS3 version is a little less than that. Can't see why PS3 would be that much higher than PC.
 

Frantic

Member
I'd be down for 'nerfing' Dante only in terms of going back to DMC3's system of having you equip two Devil Arms and two firearms between chapters/at time god statues (but having far more than three of each of those to draw from) - the triple weapon swapping thing in DMC4 opens up some neat possibilities but goes too far in terms of introducing barriers to newer players, IMO. I wouldn't consider that a nerf so much as a sidestep back toward a different choice that DMC3 made, offloading some of the complexity to the picking-a-loadout process but not necessarily getting rid of complexity altogether.
Eh, that sort of thing should be up to the player, imo. If I want to use 2/2, 3/3, 2/3, or 3/2 I should be given the option to. No reason to restrict the player when the precedence is already there for 2/2 and 3/3. Hell, they could also give an option for 3/1 and 1/3 and then have it cycle like Vergil/Lady. Maybe they could even make a 1/1 loadout and give each weapon a passive boost in strength/speed or something so new players don't feel like they're gimped sticking with just one weapon that they like and are comfortable with.

They should open it up for the player to decide what they want going forward, not force a single type of loadout on the player imo.
im just getting reused to cycling 3/3 weapons, dammit, and i want to use that skill! :p
 
Give the player a number of open slots equivalent to the number of firearms/devil arms.

Let the player fill those X slots up, minimum of 1, maximum of X.
Make a cycle forward/cycle back command be available, but unmapped by default.

With regards to the styles - can't see why they can't make it more like other action games (thinking of Bayonetta), with
- a secondary attack button, which is how it has been for almost every other action game
- a dedicated dodge command/button
- tying block to the stick (a la Bayonetta or MGR)

I like how Bayonetta's umbran spear/air trick equivalent is so intuitive to use, it's just a simple double-tap of the lock-on button. Whereas here I have to switch to the style first, then fiddle with the stick using the same thumb I pressed the style button with, and press lock-on + style.

Some people might be getting off at this complexity but I just find it needless.
 
With regards to the styles - can't see why they can't make it more like other action games (thinking of Bayonetta), with
- a secondary attack button, which is how it has been for almost every other action game
- a dedicated dodge command/button
- tying block to the stick (a la Bayonetta or MGR)

I don't feel like they need to make DMC play exactly like other action games. It's good when games take positive cues from each other but they don't all need to be exactly the same. Homogenization gets boring, it's good to have some variety between games.
 
There are DMC moves that should have simpler input (like attack/block stuff), but it's not bad that complex inputs do things in DMC. It's just that the moveset could be bigger and isn't.
 

Dahbomb

Member
With regards to the styles - can't see why they can't make it more like other action games (thinking of Bayonetta), with
- a secondary attack button, which is how it has been for almost every other action game
- a dedicated dodge command/button
- tying block to the stick (a la Bayonetta or MGR)
3rd option will never happen in a DMC game and it never should.
 

Akiller

Member
Vante confirmed:

l_5561f03bf3e26.jpg

l_5561f03e7b42c.jpg

http://umetaiko072.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-22426.html

Famitsu's article.
 
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