You now can get Refunds on Steam

Nzyme32 said:
You should read the message they post to every user in the Update News Box. Not sure if anyone screen capped it. They pretty much say they hope it encourages people to try things they are a bit hesitant on - rather than encouraging a try everything approach. Either way, they will have plenty of data on users' activities and probably have some way of determining what they see as Abuse. They may even issue warnings for all we know
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I'll use the wait and see approach, because unless I buy something, I'm hesitant on it.

kerotan_eater said:
I don't infer that from what you highlighted.
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The highlight (red) is my doing to my own post to REALLY make it visible.
 
Nzyme32 said:
I didn't highlight anything, and I don't have the screen cap of the message I am talking about. It is not the same message displayed on the refund page
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Oops, my bad. What's this message Nyzme talking about? Either way it should be on the Refund page if it is Valve's intention that users be fairly sure they want something, rather than using their refund policy as a try everything before you buy. Though I don't see why that is any more of an issue as users still need to return games under the same conditions anyway.
 
Shaneus said:
Damn. I was hoping they might be able to offer refunds on all the games I've bought that have <2 hours play regardless of when I bought them.

That would be about 80% of my library :(
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I just double checked, my copy of Sleeping Dogs with 1 minute playtime from 2013 when I tried to install it cannot be refunded, I mean I bought it on sale so it was only like $5 but it's a completely redundant part of my library and the idea of having a duplicate that literally has no use whatsoever is rather annoying.
 
Mithos said:
I'll use the wait and see approach, because unless I buy something, I'm hesitant on it.



The highlight (red) is my doing to my own post to REALLY make it visible.
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I found the bit I was on about:

We're releasing a major update to how we handle requests for refunds for purchases on Steam. You can read through all the details about refunds on Steam here, or visit http://help.steampowered.com if you’re having trouble with a purchase. We hope this will give you more confidence in trying out titles that you're less certain about.
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They are encouraging people to try something that they are essentially hesitant on. The Abuse rule obfuscates what they define as abuse, probably so no one games the system. If anything though, it seems like they would have to offer a fair amount of leeway
 
So will they or will they not refund games I bought a long ass time ago that I still can't play due to them not working on Windows 8?
 
Nzyme32 said:
I found the bit I was on about:



They are encouraging people to try something that they are essentially hesitant on. The Abuse rule obfuscates what they define as abuse, probably so no one games the system. If anything though, it seems like they would have to offer a fair amount of leeway
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Yes but how exactly does one abuse the system if everything still needs to be refunded under the same conditons?
 
v1lla21 said:
So will they or will they not refund games I bought a long ass time ago that I still can't play due to them not working on Windows 8?
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No harm in asking. That is what they are encouraging, and others seem to have had some success from some of the screenshots. If the time you've played backs up your story, I don't see why not.

kerotan_eater said:
Yes but how exactly does one abuse the system if everything still needs to be refunded under the same conditons?
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Because they don't say that. They will accept refunds outside of that dependant on the circumstances and what they think is right. Abuse of the system would likely be repeatedly doing it with games certain games over a certain period, or certain chains of activity that indicate Abuse - card reselling and alike or games they may have flagged as likely targets due to short length or whatever. There are a bunch of things they can do since a lot of your activities and system are known to them as well as purchasing habits

I think there is likely an obvious pattern for abuse vs the average user. Knowing Valve, they'll keep fiddling with the system till it works how they want
 
Nzyme32 said:
Because they don't say that. They will accept refunds outside of that dependant on the circumstances and what they think is right. Abuse of the system would likely be repeatedly doing it with games certain games over a certain period, or certain chains of activity that indicate Abuse - card reselling and alike or games they may have flagged as likely targets due to short length or whatever. There are a bunch of things they can do since a lot of your activities and system are known to them as well as purchasing habits
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So in theory, could I try five thousand games right now, refund 90% of them if I didn't like it and only keep 10%?
 
kerotan_eater said:
So in theory, could I try five thousand games right now, refund 90% of them if I didn't like it and only keep 10%?
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Pretty certain they will log that as abuse - try it and see though, otherwise we won't know for sure. For Abuse, your refund ability is revoked

It's like asking how to tell what the rules are for VAC bans. It's security through obfuscation so it can't be gamed. What you suggest is ridiculous, as no one would normally be hesitant about every game on Steam and thus try them all
 
Nzyme32 said:
No harm in asking. That is what they are encouraging, and others seem to have had some success from some of the screenshots. If the time you've played backs up your story, I don't see why not.
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Thanks for the reply. So I just saw that it says I played max Payne 2 for 12 hours. I probably left it running one day :( I know there's no way that there's save or anything since it won't even start up on windows 8. I'll just contact them and see what happens.
 
If I order a physical game on Amazon and I don't receive it, it's either refunded or they send me a second copy. That has happened to me maybe 3 or 4 times over a 10 years period. There's potential for abuse there, but I have never heard of anyone abusing this.

I'm sure it's case by case depending on how much money you spend.
 
Do people really go that crazy over trading cards? I get kind of annoyed at having them pop up in my inventory and every time I go to sell them to get them out of there they're worth like 10-12 cents.
 
Nzyme32 said:
Pretty certain they will log that as abuse - try it and see though, otherwise we won't know for sure. For Abuse, your refund ability is revoked

It's like asking how to tell what the rules are for VAC bans. It's security through obfuscation so it can't be gamed. What you suggest is ridiculous, as no one would normally be hesitant about every game on Steam and thus try them all
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I ask this because this would be the kind of person I am. I do not really seek blockbuster videogames that get a tremendous amount of coverage where I can easily read reviews on them, I already know if I want them. I do very much enjoy looking niche small titles that are the opposite of any conventional genre's and usually are not critically measured for a while -- if ever. Have a look at the indie section on Steam, and look for the new releases. Most have no reviews from critics, and less than a handful of reviews from users. The most I can do is look at a trailer, synopsis and a few poorly written reviews from the public. There is in essence a lot more risk in getting it right.

So what I want to know how would be trying out a lot of videogames and returning more be any more wrong than trying less and returning less? Either way you still have to be refunding under the same stipulations. It in theory should not matter that I try 5, 15, 50, 500 or 50000 games, and return 90% of them. Especially if you follow Sturgeon's law who says 90% of things are crap =)
 
Alex said:
Do people really go that crazy over trading cards? I get kind of annoyed at having them pop up in my inventory and every time I go to sell them to get them out of there they're worth like 10-12 cents.
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No, the people concerned about this stuff are being pretty warped. Very few people are going to buy a game, idle it for 40 cents worth of cards, and request a refund, with their money in limbo for up to a week afterward. Even the few people that do attempt this will likely get their refund rights revoked sooner rather than later.
 
Corpekata said:
No, the people concerned about this stuff are being pretty warped. Very few people are going to buy a game, idle it for 40 cents worth of cards, and request a refund, with their money in limbo for up to a week afterward. Even the few people that do attempt this will likely get their refund rights revoked sooner rather than later.
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It's just sounds like the video game equivalent of some old timey hobo picking up cans with a sharp stick. Maybe jamming out to their harmonica in their abandoned boxcar while idling for cards.
 
I'd love to see the steam sale regret statistics after the summer sale. Like when the dust settles, people see the bill and go "I've made a huge mistake"
 
I think people ITT are severely overestimating how much the average steam user cares about those trading cards. Literally no one I have read or talked to outside of this forum has ever played a game on steam specifically for the cards.
 
Wish this would work on some of the older garbage games I own on Steam. LOL. Eh this is pretty sweet anyways. No more buyer's remorse now, for me two hours is enough of a gut feeling to go by if I wanna grab that refund.
 
Corpekata said:
No, the people concerned about this stuff are being pretty warped. Very few people are going to buy a game, idle it for 40 cents worth of cards, and request a refund, with their money in limbo for up to a week afterward. Even the few people that do attempt this will likely get their refund rights revoked sooner rather than later.
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Yeah it just seems like a very strange complaint on what amounts to a very fiar and decent refund system,

I mean Rock Paper Shotgun and Kotaku both have articles on the problems with Valves refund system (and they even contacted Valve about these "problems"), and they both amount to 1:"but people can buy a 3rd party game, request a refund and keep the game for free", or 2 "people will buy a game and idle it for trading cards and then request a refund" or 3 "people will buy short games, finish them and the request a refund" - all 3 of these things are basically non issues.

1. People who would do this have a much easier option already to get the game for free, not many people will buy a game then wait up to a week for a refund to get it for free - not when they can already get it free via other means without paying a dime.

2. As you say, do people really think a lot of people will pay cash for a game to idle it for a tiny amount of steam wallet cash then wait up to a week for a refund? - you may get someone stupid enough to do this, but they'd loose access to refunding pretty quick.

3. Same thing as number 1 really, if someone was going to buy a short game and then wait for a week to get the refund once they finish it, they'd be much more likely to use other means to get the game for free.
 
The Cowboy said:
Yeah it just seems like a very strange complaint on what amounts to a very fiar and decent refund system,

I mean Rock Paper Shotgun and Kotaku both have articles on the problems with Valves refund system, and they both amount to 1:"but people can buy a 3rd party game, request a refund and keep the game for free", or 2 "people will buy a game and idle it for trading cards and then request a refund" or 3 "people will buy short games, finish them and the request a refund" - all 3 of these things are non issues.

1. People who would do this have a much easier option already to get the game for free, not many people will buy a game then wait up to a week for a refund to get a free game - when they can already get it free via other means without paying a dime.

2. As you say, do people really think a lot of people will pay cash for a game to idle it for a tiny amount of steam wallet cash then wait up to a week for a refund? - you may get someone stupid enough to do this, but they'd loose access to refunding pretty quick.

3. Same thing as number 1 really, if someone was going to buy a short game and then wait for a week to get the refund, they'd be much more likely to use other means to get the game for free.
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That's the thing, if you are "cheap" enough to try to abuse this system, you'd be finding other ways to play the game for free than to go through this arduous process.
 
Pretty awesome, wish we could do this with digital downloads on consoles. 2 hours is a good chunk of time, too, none of this 15-minutes Google-Play bullshit.
 
firehawk12 said:
That's the thing, if you are "cheap" enough to try to abuse this system, you'd be finding other ways to play the game for free than to go through this arduous process.
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Exactly, these "problems" aren't really problems at all IMO.

I really hope Valve don't change (reduce it) this policy due to these "problem" complaints, we finally have proper consumer protection on Steam after 10 years and its a dam good setup they put in (I'm actually shocked at how good it is) - the last thing we need is to have this protection reduced due to things such as "but what if someone buys a game to get 40 cents worth of trading cards and then refunds the game!!!".
 
Now you can't claim pirate it just to "test". :)

I'm really surprised Valve did this. I would've expected Sony & Microsoft do it far ahead, due to closed ecosystem.

I really hope it doesn't get abused and nerfed.

But because of piracy, those who want free copy won't be bother paying, when they can just download it, right? You'd be tying your money for a week and eventually Valve will deny refund.
 
If you're cheap enough to try and take advantage of the refund policy, you're probably cheap enough to pirate the game. This definitely is a non-issue and seems no one had these complaints when Origin allows refunds (which was great btw)
 
I wish they'd done this sooner, there's been a few times I've bought games on sale only for them to show up in a bundle immediately afterwards.
 
madjoki said:
Now you can't claim pirate it just to "test". :)

I'm really surprised Valve did this. I would've expected Sony & Microsoft do it far ahead, due to closed ecosystem.

I really hope it doesn't get abused and nerfed.

But because of piracy, those who want free copy won't be bother paying, when they can just download it, right? You'd be tying your money for a week and eventually Valve will deny refund.
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Actually I usually expect the opposite for this kind of thing. PC is usually the place where different monetisation, services and funding strategies start out as experiments due to it being an open platform.

mrmickfran said:
Valve to go out of business.
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GOG save us
 
Ionic said:
More like leap frog.
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Yeah and Valve cheated by using a big ass spring to clear one heck of a distance, i thought EA's refund policy was good - but Valves is so much better with it covering everything (and i really didn't think I'd ever get to say that).
 
I could have used this on a few games in the past few years, I just assumed if a game is out on consoles it would have controller support on PC, I no longer feel this way.
 
The lack of refunds caused lots of people to hold on before purchasing games they aren't confident they'll like or be able to run at all until they're 95% off during a sale. The possibility of getting a refund will encourage those people to purchase games at higher price points, offsetting the abusers.
 
M3d10n said:
The lack of refunds caused lots of people to hold on before purchasing games they aren't confident they'll like or be able to run at all until they're 95% off during a sale. The possibility of getting a refund will encourage those people to purchase games at higher price points, offsetting the abusers.
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oC0Gq.gif


This actually sounds like a reasonable effect of this.
 
Heh, I wonder if the ACCC suing Valve over their refund policy had anything to do with this.

Anyway great news. Well done Valve.
 
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