AMD Radeon Fury X Series | HBM, Small Form Factor And Water Cooling | June 16th
- Thread starter wachie
- Start date
Unknown Soldier
Member
The original rumors stated it would be announced at Computex, before Nvidia snuck in and suddenly announced the 980 Ti for $650 and oh surprise you can buy one right now! I'm aware AMD was always going to do a big press conference at E3, but people assumed the Fury would be announced at Computex and officially launched at E3.
We're both working off rumors at this point though, but I subscribe to the saying "Where there's smoke, there's fire" and I don't believe it's coincidental that AMD suddenly clammed up about the Fury right after the 980 Ti was surprise-launched at Computex. If AMD really had the Titan X killer in Fury they would have been leaking information left and right to counter-maneuver the 980 Ti's surprise launch but instead they have gone absolutely silent. There's no way that's a good sign for AMD, either they weren't expecting the 980 Ti to basically be the Titan X/2 or they weren't expecting the $650 price point, or both.
Brad Grenz
Member
The smoke/fire thing doesn't work when you've made up the smoke. They haven't "suddenly clammed up". They have continued not to say anything about something clearly scheduled to be revealed on the 16th.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Man, I really want this card to kickass, like penis slap all current cards in the face, but man, Nvidia dropping that asteroid impact release of essentially a 6GB Titan X for $650, hot damn, they are barely letting AMD breath.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Its only that cheap in US tho
finalflame
Banned
The MSRP is equivalent everywhere else.
+1
Unknown Soldier, your opinion looks a lot like bias confirmation, or something to that effect.
You're speculating performance based on speculation of what you think *should* have happened PR-wise. That's two steps removed from any sort of coherent foundation.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Nah
then it would be 650 euros. Not 800+ in most places
PS4 was announced at 399 USD, we got it for 399 euros. Same with xb1
AMD would have the leg up if they werent held back by that first generation HBM limitation.
Rushing to market with new tech isn't really all that effective
To be fair, the 290x is a year older than the 980 and is pretty competitive with it.
dgrdsv
Member
This is quite misleading though as Fiji needs its cooling radiator which actually makes it quite a bit bigger than the reference 980Ti cooling solution. The difference is that Fiji is split in two halves.
amstradcpc
Member
The most exciting thing is next gen we will be able to build powerful PCs with a mini ATX case. It was high time.
Nostremitus
Member
Not misleading at all, this should fit most ITX or MATX cases that can't fit a long card. That's the point.
thelastword
Banned
Which is most likely the case, seeing that AMD has a knack of doing so with markedly cheaper solutions.
Now that brand new ram technology is coming through with much better bandwidth, the prospect of 4096 shaders at over 1GHz with it's GCN being based on Tonga, or rather GCN 1.2. I am really excited for the possibilities. I suspect we will get confirmed specs near or about E3, but even at 4GB, the new ram should be fast enough to outdo 6GB of GDDR5 at higher resolutions.
Unknown Soldier
Member
/shrug
I guess we're just discussing dueling rumors at this point. We'll find out soon enough what's really going on, the 16th is less than 2 weeks away now.
I've been saying this for weeks. I agree 100%, bring back sensibly, reasonably (insert other moderate adverb) priced midrange (or upper-midrange, I guess. Enthusiast? Who cares, we all know what we mean) cards pls.
Yeah there were 2 uncorroborated rumors so far: AMD unwilling to match the 980Ti directly thus needs the E3 buzz, and that the current card present in Computex underperformed the 980Ti somehow.
The 980Ti is a tough cookie to beat though, it nearly matches Titan X in every aspect including a monstrous 601mm² in die size. Still I'm ready to go red again if Fury doesn't suck.
The 980Ti is a tough cookie to beat though, it nearly matches Titan X in every aspect including a monstrous 601mm² in die size. Still I'm ready to go red again if Fury doesn't suck.
dgrdsv
Member
You still need to have a place to attach the radiator though. Most ITX/mATX cases don't have much external cooling options beyond the PSU outflow.
Nostremitus
Member
Most bargain bin cases that no one in the right mind would buy when planning a gaming rig. Wanting a small case is one thing, but getting a small case without cooling options is just dumb.
Brad Grenz
Member
Actually lots have spots specifically for radiators these days. There's also supposed to be an air-cooled model, so your original point is moot.
Most should have space for a radiator. Especially if you're able to give the CPU a good air cooler which shouldn't be an issue as most CPUs nowadays run quite cool.
And those are just some ITX cases that exist today. There will be cases made for this if more GPUs come out similar to how the FT03-m was designed for AIO CPU coolers*.
*-ish. It was a refurbished SG05 chassis, but with threads for a 120mm rad on top of the 140mm fan on the bottom and no room for a decent CPU air cooler.
28nm: The Last Node of Moore's Law
There is a consensus that making this type of product (discrete desktop GPUs) on processes beyond 28nm is going to be more expensive. Until this point, costs have eventually remained similar on each successive node shrink. Increased difficulty of production beyond 28nm is going to mean (if these predictions are accurate), that GPUs are going to get more expensive going forwards.
There are very smart people working on what comes next, but just because we have enjoyed a trend this far, it does not mean that trend will continue.
opticalmace
Member
Funny you should say that, my last two cards were the 4870 and 6950 (well, I'm still on the latter).
Since we're going with speculation and predictions at this point here's mine:
1. Fury/Fury X will outdo 980Ti/Titan X in benchmarks and in games, but not by a lot.
2. Fury/Fury X will be more expensive than the 980Ti but less expensive than the Titan X.
3. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth from both camps (Team Red and Team Green)
4. If 1 and 2 are true then I will probably buy a 980Ti for my next card.
1. Fury/Fury X will outdo 980Ti/Titan X in benchmarks and in games, but not by a lot.
2. Fury/Fury X will be more expensive than the 980Ti but less expensive than the Titan X.
3. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth from both camps (Team Red and Team Green)
4. If 1 and 2 are true then I will probably buy a 980Ti for my next card.
Shadowhaxor
Member
Still depends on where that case is designed to live. The Coolermaster Elite line for example don't have any space for a radiator to live. The HAF series does, however they are double the length as well.
Speaking that, I really do want to add watercooling to my HTPC/Steam box but I love the Elite 130 so much ;(
I don't think AMD can afford to be more pricey than the 980 Ti, for their sake. Even if it's a 10% difference but $100-150 more, most people won't be able to justify that price. It has to be lower or at the same price point. Hell, Nvidia has basically shot themselves in the foot with the 980 Ti, damn near Titan X performance for less the cost?
Plus if the Fury/Fury X only has 4GB, well it's not going to fair well in the buyers eyes.
I fully expect fury to be more than 10% faster than the 980ti. I shudder to think what sales will be like if it isn't.
If it's a 20-30% improvement they can price it for whatever they like and be fine.
Edit: looks like fury won't be faster or much faster than the ti
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-fury-fiji-xt-gpu-slower-gtx-980-ti/
Major B.S.
Neo Member
I really hope this fits in my 486 case that I'm still rocking.
cleveridea
Member
Unfortunately for AMD, whenever you create new silicon (new design and new technology in this case with the 3D memory) you roll the dice as to the final product. Unfortunately you rolled the dice 2 years back (ie only 2 years later do you see if final silicon matches your design)
And AMD got unlucky. Its certainly not by choice its been delayed this long. Has to be infuriating for marketing/sales at AMD (and stressful for the engineers)
When this happens its doubly bad. First, you get delayed so if your competitor gets their card out they get to control the market and profit without competition (eg its no coincidence the 980 Ti and its price came out only weeks before the AMD cards are due)
Then secondly, its been delayed so long, that the performance that might have been most impressive if released at the target deadine becomes less impressive as delays mount (because you are locked into your design)
And AMD got unlucky. Its certainly not by choice its been delayed this long. Has to be infuriating for marketing/sales at AMD (and stressful for the engineers)
When this happens its doubly bad. First, you get delayed so if your competitor gets their card out they get to control the market and profit without competition (eg its no coincidence the 980 Ti and its price came out only weeks before the AMD cards are due)
Then secondly, its been delayed so long, that the performance that might have been most impressive if released at the target deadine becomes less impressive as delays mount (because you are locked into your design)
Lovely Salsa
Banned
If the next amd card beats titan x then how long do you think the card would last at 1080p?
Youd be able to max games out for atleast 4 years, right?
Youd be able to max games out for atleast 4 years, right?
Things like this are impossible to speculate on. There's just no purpose.
How to future proof: Buy mid range card, sell it and buy new mid range card every 2ish years.
cleveridea
Member
Given that most games will be limited by console versions, which cannot exceed 1080p (and have CPU/GPU memory limitations) I'd think that a 980 Ti, Titan X or AMD equivalent would be set for 1080 until new consoles come out - and they would likely target 4K if monitors/TV are affordable. Hard to imagine a new console coming earlier than 4 years.
I went Titan X for 1080p but with 3D vision (effectively double resolution, ie 2 x 1080p) and most of the games would run great with a 970/980 let alone a Titan X (or Ti) at 1080p maxxed
Also, if future proofing is important then you can always buy a SLI motherboard & appropriate PSU but just buy a single card, then you would have the option to buy a second (cheaper) later on.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
How does it work with 3D, exactly? You need a display that supports it, obviously, and a good video card to drive it, but do games need to have support or is it a driver-level thing?
Shadowhaxor
Member
Oh I know what it says, but what it says vs actual use is a different story. It's a bit cramped in there with a GTX 780 in there. But for shits and giggles I'll try and see if I can get a H55 / H60 to fit in there.
I'm sorry, i got it all mixed up, i meant 1.3.
I also thought tonga was 1.3, and thereby assumed that everything new after it would be too.
But it seems like i was wrong about that too, i guess there Fiji could be 1.2 as well.
A lot of reporting on Fiji has stated it as 1.3, but we wont really know until it is official.
Personally, I'm guessing on 1.3 or higher revision to deal with the new memory controller that will be required. Plus, to actually optimize the hell out of having so much bandwidth available.
Well, if it helps. I also went from 4890 > 6950 (and shader modded that to 6970. But I've moved on to 290 once it was less than 300.)
cleveridea
Member
In theory any 3D game should support it but in practice many games use tricks that dont render every single visible element in regular 3D (eg things like a HUD can be represented in 2D if you dont care about 3D vision), and therefore 3D vision doesnt work. They do this for high performance and on regular 2D monitors it looks fine, it only breaks in 3D since the left and right eye expect a different image based on the different coordinates of the left and right eyes "camera" (ie view point in 3D space) which only works if all rendered elements are defined in 3D space, and not using a 2D overlay.
I found that not many games both work in 3D and look better because of it. But some look amazing, like New Vegas.
In answer to your question - if all elements of a scene are defined in 3D space then the driver takes care of it.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Thank you for the clarification on 3D. I use a projector that is (in theory) capable of 3D, although I don't know how to use it with games. I have an AMD card, am I SOL?
cleveridea
Member
I am not sure on specifics for AMD but for nVidia you need a graphics card that supports it, a IR emitter (communicates with the 3D glasses) & 3D vision glasses, and a compatible monitor. The monitor can be expensive because to get 60 fps performance, you need 120 fps (60 for the left eye, 60 for the right) so often a monitor has both a high refresh and 3D support (in my case 3D Vision, 144Hz)
This may not necessarily be up to date, but I see this list:
http://support.amd.com/en-us/search/faq/73
And there is a link there for compatible displays.
Its not necessarily true that a 3D compatible monitor works with all 3D vendors (like AMD or NVidia 3D Vision etc). Eg I believe the monitor I have is only compatible with 3D vision and not AMD.
They way these things work in practice is typically alternating the left and right eye images with alternate frames, with the glasses alternately blocking light in the right or left eye/ This has to be in sync with the images displayed by the monitor, which is why it needs a combination of a compatible card, monitor and glasses since everything has to be synced accurately. If something is close to you, your left eye and right eye have quite a different image due to the parallax effect (eg hold up your hand in front of your face, then open only your left or right eye. you can see that your left and right eye have the hand in different parts of your view.)
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Don't misunderstand me, fella, I know how stereoscopic 3D works.
I just mean, can I turn a thing on and make my games go all 3D. I have a 3D projector and glasses and watch movies just fine in 3D.
I just mean, can I turn a thing on and make my games go all 3D. I have a 3D projector and glasses and watch movies just fine in 3D.
cleveridea
Member
Yeah that wasnt necessarily for you, I find 3D can be amazing when it works well. Didnt mean to imply you werent away of how it works. I just enjoy talking about - no one else in my RL seems to care lol.
Whats your graphics card and display?
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Ah, cool.
I have an OCed 7970, which I plan to upgrade soon to a 980ti or whatever AMD's new flagship is. I use a BenQ W1070 projector.
I have an OCed 7970, which I plan to upgrade soon to a 980ti or whatever AMD's new flagship is. I use a BenQ W1070 projector.
Just got an email from AMD with this video in it and the text
New Era of PC Gaming. It's Coming..
https://youtu.be/O5bVoIQrH7g
New Era of PC Gaming. It's Coming..
https://youtu.be/O5bVoIQrH7g
HazySaiyan
Banned
I have a liquid cooler in my mATX case and I'd still have plenty of room for this.