The Last Guardian re-revealed at E3 2015! Up Yours Y2Kev!

Is it allowed to discuss the AI element of this game on this message board, or is it not? I read things that I don't think are true, so I post my opinion on this discussion board, and I back it up with the developer history and history of AI hyping in general. What is my opinion to you?

Where have I said there was "nothing exciting to be excited about"? A sequel to ICO is exciting in itself, there is no need to make up stuff that weren't showed or even hinted at to be excited IMO. On the opposite, believing stuff that isn't true is the best way to kill excitement when the game releases, there's nothing worse for a game than judging it from what you made up in your head rather than what it is.

Discuss all you want. That's not what I'm saying.

I just find it grating that you are acting as though people are making things up and then you're telling them that they're going to be disappointed. They're speculating just like you. And they're using uedas history and what he says his vision for this game is to form these ideas. It's not just made up.

I didn't mean to sound overly prickish in my last post but I did. Sorry.
 
well, I am glad Sony made good on their 6 year old promise of this game. I am not sure it is my cup of tea gamewise; but am glad this exists and glad it seemingly will come out....shame it is a 2016 release though...after all this time; I thought they would come out and give a specific and 2015 release date
 
I'm astonished at how many folks apparently saw a completely different trailer from TGS 2009 than I did. This reveal trailer showed exactly the kind of gameplay the TGS one hinted at but somehow in the ensuing 6 years people thought it was something else?

As for the graphics they look fine, I'd imagine the fur shaders will be improved vs the PS3 and textures will be higher res but beyond that I want every other ounce of system grunt spent on AI. Ueda's games have pushed both enemy and companion AI to it's limits, my own personal conspiracy theory for the delay is that they couldn't get the CatBird AI right on Cell. Further delving into the realms of speculation here but I'd be willing to bet that the amount of specific prompting (jumps, shouts, etc) required to get the companion to do it's thing will decline over the course of the game to emphasise the strength of the bond that forms between the boy and his companion.

Absolutely delighted to see this finally hauled out of the cupboard and brushed down, even in the event it proves a disappointment I get more enjoyment from ambitious failures these days than a well made mediocre title.
 
This game has a special place in my heart and I have no idea why, maybe it's the gryphon, my love for pets when I was a kid, and Ueda's previous work. But no game has ever grabbed me in the same way.

I think this is it for me.

When someone first described Shadow of the Colossus to me, they basically said it was a game where you go from one boss fight to the next with a lot of horse riding in between. I was like "ok....?"

And then I played it.

I really hope this game can bring back some of those same feelings.
 
not really a graphics person but the game did look quite dated. Gameplay wise, it looks boring as fuck.

Uedas game isn't for everyone, ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are seen as super niche, but the ones who like them often see those games as one of the best games ever made.
 
I can't believe it. I'm overjoyed and amazed at the same time.

Also, it looks like I'll be taking applications on cocks.

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Uedas game isn't for everyone, ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are seen as super niche, but the ones who like them often see those games as one of the best games ever made.

Yep.

They are slow games, it's an aquired taste and clearly not for everyone, not that they are to blame. It's like going to see a slow movie, like a Kim Ki duk film. It's really hard to showcase the game accurately in 6 minutes when really it's the entire journey that is the most impactful, at least that's what i'm expecting.

And honestly, i'm still impressed technically as I was 6 years ago when it comes to the griffon's movement and animation and behaviour. It looks really well integrated and detailed
 
Yep.

They are slow games, it's an aquired taste and clearly not for everyone, not that they are to blame. It's like going to see a slow movie, like a Kim Ki duk film. It's really hard to showcase the game accurately in 6 minutes when really it's the entire journey that is the most impactful, at least that's what i'm expecting.

And honestly, i'm still impressed technically as I was 6 years ago when it comes to the griffon's movement and animation and behaviour. It looks really well integrated and detailed

I never thought of it this way, but it's true.
 
Its good to see TLG back in action. As one of those "artysy" games, it doesnt have to necessarily look amazing graphics wise. The artstyle and mood is what really impacts The Ico Team's games.
 
Yep.

They are slow games, it's an aquired taste and clearly not for everyone, not that they are to blame. It's like going to see a slow movie, like a Kim Ki duk film. It's really hard to showcase the game accurately in 6 minutes when really it's the entire journey that is the most impactful, at least that's what i'm expecting.

And honestly, i'm still impressed technically as I was 6 years ago when it comes to the griffon's movement and animation and behaviour. It looks really well integrated and detailed

While this is true, people who have any interest in this sort of thing should be able to see the greatness in what we saw last night. I remember watching Journey gameplay videos before it came out and there wasn't much going on but I could tell that it was going to be something truly special. This is the same. Even with the short demo of The Last Guardian, I became invested in the characters and worried for them. I can only imagine how great it will be to actually play the game. I think a lot of the naysayers here will change their tunes once this releases and becomes lauded as one of the greatest games of all time.
 
Ico was super niche, the rise to fame really started with SoC, which was technically impressive for its time and was an action game a lot easier to sell. It's kind of odd they went back to Ico style escorting/puzzle game though when SoC was far more successful. Maybe the game isn't like this for the whole run time, these kind of games don't last more than 3-4 hours typically, maybe there will be some twists and changes ahead. I think most "fans" hyping this game came from their experience with SoC rather than Ico and expected something different maybe. It looks exactly like the 2009 footage though so I'm not sure why they thought that.
 
Love the art style but can't say the gameplay really grabbed me. There could be more to it than that but maybe that's why it was in development hell, not a lot of interesting stuff to do with this concept.
 
Ico was super niche, the rise to fame really started with SoC, which was technically impressive for its time and was an action game a lot easier to sell. It's kind of odd they went back to Ico style escorting/puzzle game though when SoC was far more successful. Maybe the game isn't like this for the whole run time, these kind of games don't last more than 3-4 hours typically, maybe there will be some twists and changes ahead.

Ueda said that this is more of a combination of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus since you can climb Trico. I don't think we have seen any cooperative combat with Trico yet either.
 
While this is true, people who have any interest in this sort of thing should be able to see the greatness in what we saw last night. I remember watching Journey gameplay videos before it came out and there wasn't much going on but I could tell that it was going to be something truly special. This is the same. Even with the short demo of The Last Guardian, I became invested in the characters and worried for them. I can only imagine how great it will be to actually play the game. I think a lot of the naysayers here will change their tunes once this releases and becomes lauded as one of the greatest games of all time.

Oh i'm not denying that. It can't be seen but i'm hype as fuck for TLG because SotC is my favourite game ever precisily for what you and I said. Was just saying how I understood why this doesn't seem like much for people who are kinda exterior to this pacing.

I hope we see more snippets, like the ones with the boy alone like we see in TGS 2010 or E3 2009 (platforming, hiding, throwing barrels)
 
If you were disappointed its your own fault. The gameplay and aesthetic is exactly how it was and looked when it was revealed (as it should). The gameplay and aesthetic is essentially Ico 2 (as they said it would be). And the graphics are not bad at all, they aren't nearly on the same level as UC4 or Horizon but they are not on the bad side of the graphics scale at all. And this is to be expected on a game that spent most of its dev time on PS3.

Its fine if you think it looks boring or bad, but you only have yourself to blame for being hyped for a game you didn't do any research on what it is.

Ueda from 6 years ago:
The essence of the game is quite close to Ico.
 
So now that I've properly spent several hours freaking out about Shenmue and drooling over FFVII - OMFG The Last Guardian looks incredible. That gameplay footage was outstanding.

The bit where he climbed up the creature while it hung on the ledge was amazing, like an organic mix of Ico and SotC.
 
I just can't express how happy I am right now. I'm still in awe, I replay that section of the conference and tear up all over again. This game has a special place in my heart and I have no idea why, maybe it's the gryphon, my love for pets when I was a kid, and Ueda's previous work. But no game has ever grabbed me in the same way.

Just give me this game and I don't want anything else.

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It was a beautiful thing to see TLG open the conference. Just beautiful.
 
I told y'all weeks ago that if this game showed up, a lot of people soley hyped by the mystique of "the lost game from a legendary creator that people on message boards want to see" that they'd be blindsided by a PS3 remastery looking thing with Ico-ish gameplay that a lot of people in 2015 will think looks more awkward than novel.

I mean, if you liked Ico, more power to you, but this was always an inevitable outcome.
 
I told y'all weeks ago that if this game showed up, a lot of people soley hyped by the mystique of "the lost game from a legendary creator that people on message boards want to see" that they'd be blindsided by a PS3 remastery looking thing with Ico-ish gameplay that a lot of people in 2015 will think looks more awkward than novel.

I mean, if you liked Ico, more power to you, but this was always an inevitable outcome.

It seems that this is the first time many people have seen this game in action. I wonder if the same thing will happen with Shenmue III.
 
Guys. I'm still in shock. We are not dreaming right? This is not a dream created by MM Dream?

I keep slapping myself and it still hurts. Yep all good.

I think what made me the happiest is not only seeing the first few seconds when Trico comes out, but when Yoshida then appears on stage and calls out Ueda who stands up for an ovation. How good that felt
 
I guess it doesn't help that in the time since being first unveiled and now many games have come out or are coming out inspired by Ueda's previous games to such a degree that seeing TLG in action feels like something of a known quantity.

I do like the running down the stairs animation for the kid though.
 
It looks a bit dated sure. But I'm still hyped as fuck. Ico was magical and I never got to play SOTC. I can't wait. I'm so glad this game is coming out.
 
I love puzzle games but can't help but notice that that gameplay trailer looks like an interactive movie more than a 'game' like SoC was. Hope the they spend as much time as they have in those puzzles as much as the animation and mood, which is quite fantastic.
 
I told y'all weeks ago that if this game showed up, a lot of people soley hyped by the mystique of "the lost game from a legendary creator that people on message boards want to see" that they'd be blindsided by a PS3 remastery looking thing with Ico-ish gameplay that a lot of people in 2015 will think looks more awkward than novel.

I mean, if you liked Ico, more power to you, but this was always an inevitable outcome.

People like to hyped up and ignore the realities sometimes. If people says, this is really what we were waiting for they get hammered with "You just don't understand", "This game isn't for you" and other pleasantries rather than focusing on the reality of what this game would be.

Its a game driven more by forum hype than realistic expectations. I'm glad the game is out for those of you that were dying for it, but I'm getting the sense this game won't be a barnburner.
 
The bit where he climbed up the creature while it hung on the ledge was amazing, like an organic mix of Ico and SotC.
Yep. I think this climbing interaction will open up a ton of possibilities for traversal and interaction in the game, without it ever feeling contrived (like for example, the ladder manipulation in TLOU)
 
This is pretty interesting.

The tropes in Shadow of the Colossus are what got me out of the game (that and the framerate), and I laughed during the ending.

I know this will be seen as a trollish comment, but it's my sincere experience. The game is a good game, it deserves to be a reference for a lot of things, but it's not exactly narratively subtle, and Team ICO is rather one-note and hammering when it comes to emotions or narration. Hey, even the demo of TLG is pretty much usual, expected stuff, even the way they play it is overdone (artificially waiting to run when the bridge collapses to build tension)... it's all very effective, but expected.

No, team ico really is not narratively subtle, the story is a bit mysterious, and minimalistic, relying mostly on actual played events, and little on extrinsic development.. But the plot has always been pretty heavily troped. Ironically, especially when you look back at all the waxing about the game.... Team ico games are all about being played.... Rather than 'the story' being 'told'

So maybe they scratched it all because it just didn't work, and they went back to scripted gameplay? Frankly, the paragraph where you imagine what it might do reads like something from Peter Molyneux.

????
It was always scripted. Just like ico, and just like sotc. Its how the AI reacts, and what the player has to do after triggering the script thats... Well, not scripted.
If really there was something complex going on, why not show it? Why not openly say it on stage and describe it? Why do fans have to "piece together from tidbits"? Instead, what they chose to show were very ordinary mechanics, but filmed in a cinematic way to cause emotions - just like they usually do. Yorda or the colossi weren't exactly AI masterpieces.

The entire point of team ico games is 'show, dont tell' and more importantly 'do, dont show'.

Very simply, if people couldnt figure out the underlying factors going on without it being spelled out barney style, and more importantly, if they simply dont have the drive to satisfy their curiosity or questions with their own critical thinking rather than demanding others explain it to them, this game is not for them. Used to be video games in their entirety were not for them.

Yorda was actually incredibly impressive AI at the time.

Agro and the colossi also had very good AI, but that really wasnt what made them great, what made them great was how they were used in the context of the games design. The behaviors had to be responsive the the player, while at the same time dependable, they couldnt be some autonomous intelligence oft mistakenly thought of as being good game ai.

The same is true, albeit on a higher level for the companion in TLG.

Its a mixture of VERY sophisticated AI, such as the companions idle behavior, awareness of surroundings, awareness of player character, and traversal capabilities; And good old fashioned finite state machines, such as the event with the eye structure activating the scared state.

This simple display of design and reliable AI, for what is very clearly a basic controls tutorial, is already very sophisticated. To the point that there is STILL nothing out there comparable to it, this many years later, because as simple as you think it is...

In other games these would all be cutscenes, qte's and other extrinsically handled events, because other devs just cant make an actual intrinsic system to do it.

Whats going to get more complicated is not the AI, but the situations its going to respond to, thats going to be the game, just like it was in ico and sotc.

This companion, is going to be the next Agro, but on a level above Agro.

This game can be an excellent, very moving ICO sequel, but some of you are setting yourselves for disappointment. No element points to anything complex going on, and for all we know, this could be true:


(I think the graphics look fine.)

Everything is already in place and functioning perfectly.

Literally, the only thing you could be bringing up based on the basic control tutorial, is that team ico would suddenly be incapable, of their trademark fantastic world design to traverse, and that nothing they could do would get much better than the basic control tutorial shown here.
 
FFVII and Shenmue 3 both have over 80 pages, this has only 22. What gives?

Game looks good. It was never going to live up to the hype, though.
 
I thought it looked visually stunning. Sure it didn't look as outstanding as Horizon or Uncharted but it looked artistically beautiful. It definitely doesn't look like something that would run on the PS3 at a steady 30 fps. Heck, I think it'd be running at 10 fps, which is why it had so many troubles on that console.

Then again, that's my opinion. People are expected to be disappointed considering its 6 years of wait.

Best wishes.
 
I think dated or outmoded is an odd word to use. On a visual level, obviously it doesn't look like Horizon, but it does look like it has some nice detail in the texturing, great animation, and a pleasant overall aesthetic. It certainly doesn't look bad. I'm more concerned about the performance.

But more importantly, I really wish the gameplay were outmoded (subjunctive case is right here, right?). What games came out after this was unveiled in 2009 can I play to get this kind of gameplay? I am not saying it cynically but I'm genuinely curious. It looks like ICO, which is still pretty unique today. I can only think of that Majin game that tried this.

Yeah, there's not many games using "enviromental puzzles" to call it away.

That's why I'm so fond of this game, Ueda games are unique in every sense.

I told y'all weeks ago that if this game showed up, a lot of people soley hyped by the mystique of "the lost game from a legendary creator that people on message boards want to see" that they'd be blindsided by a PS3 remastery looking thing with Ico-ish gameplay that a lot of people in 2015 will think looks more awkward than novel.

I mean, if you liked Ico, more power to you, but this was always an inevitable outcome.

More than the gameplay, Ico and SoTC are games which more of their value are the feelings they can evoke to you. If you're someone that never saw anything interesting on those 2 games and they never affected you the way it did to others, I'm not sure if TLG was a game meant for that kind of people in the first place.
 
This looks closer to Ico than SotC. :I

And we knew that since the game reveal in 09. Also, you say that as if its a bad thing, because Ico > SotC. That being said, there are elements of SotC present, and I won't be surprised if there is a grip meter to hold on to the cat-dog-bird thing.
 
If the graphics stayed like this I would be extremely happy. The image quality is so damn SHARP lol the artstyle looks good and the game seems to have great atmosphere so I'm not worried at all!
 
Man smh at people who probably didn't even like Ico hyping up this game and getting disappointed. I think the game looks amazing and will turn out just like I was waiting for.
 
Man smh at people who probably didn't even like Ico hyping up this game and getting disappointed. I think the game looks amazing and will turn out just like I was waiting for.

Its the hype culture cultivated in the worst generation.

On quiet nights, if you listen really carefully after one of them makes a post, you can hear the giggles corporate marketing suits carried on the wind.
 
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