Gojiira
Member
No. TLG was literally perfect. Literally. Perfect. Meh opinion my guy
"The age of gameplay mechanics has passed" says Fumito Ueda, former Sony developer (ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, The Last Guardian)
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
vaibhavpisal
Member
I don't agree with this concept that all mechanics have been explored and nothing new exists.
I feel like am playing a new game when I recently played Doom The Dark Ages or Expedition 33.
Sure every game is bound by some basic framework, but besides that, there is scope for doing something fresh.
Besides, if a dev decides that mechanics should not be a focus, it just results in sub par games.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I think there is one aspect of "mechanics" that's overlooked when people talk about them:
The understanding, mastery, and exploitation of them.
this loop that is more cognitive than just pushing a series of buttons or just doing certain things on auto-pilot is what can determine a game feeling boring, engaging, underwhelming or overwhelming.
A shallow game can compensate with graphics or story/setting (production value), while a deep game can get away with a "lesser" presentation
but the term of "the age of mechanis has passed" is a weird one, when we have seen the most influential games of the last 10 years have been From software games, the issue is that a lot devs (especially at AAA level) are failing to deliver something truly fresh and ground-breaking
The understanding, mastery, and exploitation of them.
this loop that is more cognitive than just pushing a series of buttons or just doing certain things on auto-pilot is what can determine a game feeling boring, engaging, underwhelming or overwhelming.
A shallow game can compensate with graphics or story/setting (production value), while a deep game can get away with a "lesser" presentation
but the term of "the age of mechanis has passed" is a weird one, when we have seen the most influential games of the last 10 years have been From software games, the issue is that a lot devs (especially at AAA level) are failing to deliver something truly fresh and ground-breaking
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
All =/= Most.
You're arguing a strawman. He's saying that most of the creative landscape for new mechanics has been explored. The prevailing majority of games releasing each year with all of absolutely zero actual new gameplay mechanics pretty much proves his point.
You're free to disagree, but then you need to contend with the reality and question of why devs are not innovative in actual game mechanics? Can you even answer that?
None of those games actually present new gameplay mechanics. Again, THAT'S HIS POINT. These games are not fresh because their mechanics are new. They're fresh because they combine existing mechanics in original ways.
You're confusing gameplay mechanics (e.g. shooting, jumping, actual mechanical interactions with the gameworld), with the more general "gameplay" which describes the combination of mechanics and gameplay systems.
Ueda's argument is about new mechanics, not new gameplay.
The only person who seems to be arguing otherwise is the fictional strawman you created. Ueda is not arguing that there is no scope to do something fresh. He's arguing that there is.
The basis of his argument is that in the developer's toolbox, there are no new lego blocks to use to build a game. But there are infinite new ideas of types of game you can play by combining those lego blocks in unique and new ways.
You seem to be saying the same thing, yet framing it as if you disagree with Ueda. You don't. You're actually agreeing with him.
Nobody is making any argument at all about development focus (be it on gameplay or story). This is an irrelevant tangential point. You're arguing against a point that was never made by anyone.
Signalis
Member
Yes, but it's also one of the greatest games ever made
poodaddy
Gold Member
No reason to reinvent the wheel if the car's truckin along admirably. I get why people are upset at what they're perceiving that he's saying, but I think there's something of a miscommunication taking place here. He's not saying mechanics aren't important, just that we've reached a place where most mechanics have become somewhat homogeneous, like for example, you wouldn't dare release a game with shooting of any sort without the shoot button being the right trigger of the controller or the left click on a mouse. He's not saying mechanics are pointless, just that there's not much reason to reiterate when we can take the focused mechanics that are already there and just kind of reinterpret them rather than make entirely new mechanics.
That's how I read it anyway. Not trying to take away from anyone else's interpretation, just saying I don't think there's any reason to be up in arms about this particular statement, one that I think was relatively reasonable.
That's how I read it anyway. Not trying to take away from anyone else's interpretation, just saying I don't think there's any reason to be up in arms about this particular statement, one that I think was relatively reasonable.
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RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
yewda wants willy to the bum donut be known good game harhar metal ger sold beter thens all yowda games
nowhat
Member
You really need to work on your haiku skills.
Nonehxc
Member
I want to Fumito what Ueda is smoking.
ICO, Shadow of The Colossus director praises Katamari Damacy creator's new game for not being mechanics-based. "The age of gameplay mechanics has already passed" - AUTOMATON WEST
Fumito Ueda praised Keita Takahashi's To a T for not relying on mechanics, stating that the age of coming up with new mechanics is long over.automaton-media.com
I love Ueda and his works, but personally I couldn't disagree with this statement more.
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nowhat
Member
Oh fuck, the infection is spreading.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
None of it makes sense to me. There's been plenty of dope gameplay mechanics in newish games.
HYDE
Member
Let's consider the games he has made…All amazing, all influential af, and multiple industry greats quoted as being heavily inspired by him and his work.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
Ueda is a God in gaming. He's certainly right that the trend of new mechanics is weaker than it has been in a long time.ICO, Shadow of The Colossus director praises Katamari Damacy creator's new game for not being mechanics-based. "The age of gameplay mechanics has already passed" - AUTOMATON WEST
Fumito Ueda praised Keita Takahashi's To a T for not relying on mechanics, stating that the age of coming up with new mechanics is long over.
I love Ueda and his works, but personally I couldn't disagree with this statement more.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Something very nuanced being poorly translated into another language, missing context and thus being misunderstood?!
Omg No waaaaay!
Omg No waaaaay!
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kpopSuperstar
Member
I don't disagree, it is amazing. But it could have better. Same with Shadow and Last Guardian.
that's why i'm asking why a game lol.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
The controls in all those games pissed people off
Cant say I agree here. Production value has taken a backseat and now you get mechanics with poor production value. Think of popular games like minecraft, Repo, Peak, Palworld, even CS. The studios that concentrated on production value did not get too much success nowadays unfortunately, think HB2, Order 1886, Immortals of Aveum, The Callisto Protocol, shadow of the Tomb Raider, most Ubisoft games, etc. Studios who normally had high production value eased back on it due to cost with outcries of there being regression or not too much improvement in their games anymore because it simply wasn't paying off in terms of success. There definitely has been a concentration on high value IPs only in the industry though.
bender
What time is it?
That's why I said "to paint with too wide of a brush" as there are exception to any rule and with hundreds of games being released every week, it makes it easy to point out outliers. Minecraft was released in 2009. Counterstrike is about a decade older than that and the newer releases were a fresh coat of paint and/or Valve's money printing scheme to indoctrinate children into underage gambling. Deep mechanics still happen, even in big budget games (Death Stranding 2 just released), but I stand by sentiment that casting as wide of a net as possible dulls mechanics as does, to a lesser extent, aiming for higher and higher production values.
Crayon
Member
I agree partially. Like, we're mostly driving cars or shooting/cutting/punching a anything that moves. There's only so many ways to explore that after 40 years.
The current frontier on driving/murdering now is different and I think more interesting. Mechanics have converged and get stuck in a sort of audience capture. If you put the sprint on the wrong button, gamers fudge their huggies. If you dare to put some startup frames on a move, gamers who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground claim input lag. If you put the checkpoint far apart, you aren't respecting their time. As if it's worth a shit.
The undiscovered country here is enticing players to get out of their comfort zone and accidently get a taste for variations on designs that have become overly-standardized. Demon's Souls was an example of this and it changed games. Actually steered many away from a cliff.
The current frontier on driving/murdering now is different and I think more interesting. Mechanics have converged and get stuck in a sort of audience capture. If you put the sprint on the wrong button, gamers fudge their huggies. If you dare to put some startup frames on a move, gamers who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground claim input lag. If you put the checkpoint far apart, you aren't respecting their time. As if it's worth a shit.
The undiscovered country here is enticing players to get out of their comfort zone and accidently get a taste for variations on designs that have become overly-standardized. Demon's Souls was an example of this and it changed games. Actually steered many away from a cliff.
linko9
Member
Honestly not a surprise, the basic gameplay of his games has gotten steadily worse with each one. Last Guardian was close to unplayable, I enjoyed almost none of it. ICO was good, very competent platforming, though intentionally very heavy. SotC was a good game, but the player movement was clearly the low point. It sort of worked because on horseback the areas were so large that you didn't need precision, and on the colossi the unpredictable connection between pressing a button and what Wander did simulated how hard it would be to climb a flailing giant. No excuse for LG though, it felt like it wasn't playtested at all.
Jinxed
Member
Yep and he's correct.
Clair Obscur didn't innovate any gameplay mechanics and yet it's GOTY and felt fresh.
I see what you're saying in terms of deep mechanics not casting a wider net. That has always been true. Space sims vs some space action game, racing sims like iRacing vs arcade racers like FH, etc. I thought you meant in terms of higher production value taking priority over new or different mechanics in todays games, not necessarily deep mechanics. The examples of Palworld, Peak, Repo, Minecraft aren't necessarily that deep in terms of mechanics (maybe arguably minecraft) but they are different enough from a lot of games that have begun to appear like rehashes of the same games. Despite Minecraft releasing so long ago it's still popular because it is relatively unique.
I think there has actually been a drive towards more envolved mechanics in games that were simpler before, mostly driven by the popularity of souls games. As an example GoW and its deeper RPG like elements compared to its predecessors. Games of the past weren't necessarily deeper mechanically.
bender
What time is it?
Maybe saying "increased cost to make any given game" is better than "production costs", but it all kind of feels one and the same. The push for higher resolutions, higher frame rates, more post processing effects, bigger/denser worlds has naturally meant that you need to sell more games to be profitable. That's why most 3rd party exclusives are dead and a lot of first party exclusives are too with the exception of Nintendo who has smartly skirted that issue by resetting their graphics evolution a few times now (Wii, Switch) which helps keep their production costs in check. They'll eventually catch up though and will have to make some difficult decisions moving forward. Publishers and developers need a large audience to turn a profit, far more than any one platform is going to give them at this point. It's also why just about ever release has a digital deluxe version that costs more and every other trick in the book to try to squeeze more money from players. And with all that business of games, I do think developers feel the pressure to not alienate an audience with obtuse or overly deep mechanics. Just look at the evolution of something like the Shock series that had the double whammy of not only being simplified (Bioshock), but also trend chasing (Infinte). As much as people like the sentiment that games should be developed for any given platform and it's better for gamers when a a title is released everywhere, I largely feel that the games were are getting because of this necessity are largely worse for it, but that's probably a discussion for another time. The Souls games are interesting as they largely grew in popularity as they flew in the face of popular gaming norms of the time.
I'm probably a little grumpy these days too as I think the hobby is in an incredibly uninteresting place and then year has been incredibly dull. I'm fond of saying that the average quality of games released these days is higher than ever due to accepted norms in controls, cameras, genre conventions, etc., but at the same times it feels like the high notes are getting further and further apart.
Crayon
Member
It's been a smarter op and replies than most the shit threads we get lately. Maybe polls should take a break again. You couldn't always add them yourself.
Radical_3d
Member
We were few and the granma gave birth.
Variahunter
Member
And yes, games are more than just gameplay. It's the most important aspect of a game for me, but it doesn't make a great game by itself.ICO, Shadow of The Colossus director praises Katamari Damacy creator's new game for not being mechanics-based. "The age of gameplay mechanics has already passed" - AUTOMATON WEST
Fumito Ueda praised Keita Takahashi's To a T for not relying on mechanics, stating that the age of coming up with new mechanics is long over.
I love Ueda and his works, but personally I couldn't disagree with this statement more.
I don't like the art style of DK Bananza, it reduces my enjoyment from it.
Also, the music is forgettable honestly, which is a shame when considering DKC series…
Rare had really good gameplay, flawless music and very good art style and graphics.
Made them timeless. Bananza probably won't reach that level, despite all the good ideas (+ too much Bananas like in Odyssey).
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What are you talking about? How is a dodge and parry system a gameplay revolution?