Xbox One adds Xbox 360 backwards compatibility

Doffen said:
They will show up as ready to install under Games And Apps:

3QCophs.png


Like this:
RueB3iz.jpg
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Oh that is so beautiful.. can't wait to experience this
 
I think Microsoft should have a focus on getting all the arcade of summer games up and on the service and work on the highly requested AAAs. Getting most of the arcade titles would be huge for a lot of people.
 
Is it appropriate to ask for an invite here? I try to avoid doing this, but BC is VERY tempting.

My GT is the same as my username here.

I do apologize if this derails the discussion.
 
Digital Snake said:
I'm trying to play Banjo Kazooie and Perfect Dark. I'd imagine the other games woudl do the same thing.



Hm, sucks for me. I wouldn't think it was anything from my router..my nat is open, if thats what you mean. I'm not the most versed when it comes to that.
Click to expand...
Are you sure your ports are open?

I just checked mine and it's somehow gone to strict, reopened them and I've automatically signed in once I booted up the game.

Works fine for me now.
 
Synth said:
I still don't see why you'd have to download the entire game to play the disc copy if that were the case. You didn't do this with the 360's BC, it simply needed an updated emulator that knew how to run the new games. In this case however the emulator and the game itself appear inseparable, so it doesn't seem as likely that the data itself is identical.
Click to expand...

The first thing that comes to mind (and I'm just guessing here, I haven't torn into one of the emulator packages) is that the emulator was written with the assumption that all games are running from a GoD style install.

Why? For one, it would mean less work as they wouldn't have to worry about dealing with ODD pass through (or similar emulation). The second would be suspend support. If you want full suspend support for the virtual system (which didn't support suspend) then you can't rely on playing off a disc. The 360 would (in almost all cases) drop back to the dashboard if a disc was ejected.

With an emulation setup that needs to keep working if the system is suspended, you can't rely on the user remembering to reinsert the disc before resuming. Otherwise you'd end up with a lot of people doing the virtual equivalent of resetting their game and losing progress.

If you configure the emulator so that every game is running off of a GoD install and you don't have disc support (a 360 can run just fine w/o ever interacting with the disc drive for digital titles) then you can use the Xbox One suspend w/o risking breaking the emulation user experience.

This is the sort of thing that the product manager would have had to deal with.

jimi_dini said:
What?

No it wouldn't.

If the games used a well designed API and were forced to use it, then it's not that difficult at all. Some open source software is capable of easily supporting 30 or 40 platforms at once. Totally different platforms. Big Endian. Little Endian. Doesn't matter. And the developers themselves don't have to care most of the time about those details. And that's done by developers in their free time. For free. Those software uses for example the SDL library for graphics and sound most of the time.
Click to expand...

A "fat" binary that supports multiple target platforms is a different beast than something that can decompile and then recompile a binary for a completely different platform than originally intended.

mike4001_ said:
We need a lawyer :-)

What happens to IP when the owing company does not longer exist :-)
Click to expand...

Someone always owns the IP. If there is no owner, it is public domain, but companies often sell off or transfer IP rights. As an example, look at THQ. It no longer exists, but the IP is owned by others.

Synth said:
There's a surprising amount of disparity between the file size differences of various games though. Geometry Wars is 15mb on 360, and 564mb on X1 (549mb difference) vs Super Meat Boy which is 110mb on 360, and 721mb on X1 (611mb difference). If the game package itself were unaltered, I would expect the 360 VM to weight in at around the same size each time, but every game has a completely different file size disparity.

A digital copy will need to exist (even if it doesn't currently) in order for you to play your hard copy on X1. There's no digital / physical separation here outside of the license to play it.
Click to expand...

Patches and scratch/temp space required are two possible reasons for the size differences in the game + emulator image. It is a more efficient way to go if you assume most people will only have a handful of classic games installed at any given time. Otherwise, how do you decide how much space to allocate for the virtual hard drive? How does the end user configure that? What happens if it fills up? Etc.

Raide said:
I hope they extend this to XBLA titles as well at some point.
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Someone didn't read the OP. ;)

SeanTSC said:
So, this can play exactly *1* game out of my 113 X360 discs that I own and 1 out of nearly the same number of Digital titles that I own. Color me unimpressed. This might have finally been a real selling point for me if it actually meant a damned thing, since my old fat X360 Elite is sitting in a corner boxed up. I love video games and video game consoles, so please freaking try harder to sell me yours, Microsoft.
Click to expand...

Yes. The feature isn't even officially released (and is months away from doing so), but because the extremely limited proof-of-concept beta doesn't support all of YOUR games, it is doomed. Gotcha. It's quite possible that MS will screw this up and it will fail, but not supporting your specific titles in beta is not a solid argument for that.

amardilo said:
I get a message telling me to check xbox.com too.

I tried my copy of Perfect Dark Zero and that didn't work either but Mass Effect works for me. I know the discs work in my 360 and none of my discs have marks or scratches so they should be readable.

Makes me wonder if the discs are slightly different in different regions and MS hasn't added all discs for all regions yet.
Click to expand...

Different releases can have different IDs. In that case an ID difference would mean something may no be recognized.
 
I played some GeoWars, seemed identical to me. It was also weird to get 360 notifications again. Being able to record and take screenshots, even broadcast your 360 games on the Xbox One is pretty neat.
 
I haven't played this in ages on the 360 but Mass Effect 1 seems to run smoother and I don't notice any texture load in like the original.

They still need to sort out the SNAP/Video capture for 360 games as I just tried it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNmb-ykWAM

Other thing which is a little pain is all the save files and DLCs need to be uploaded to cloud storage in order to continue on xbone.
 
I'm really confused about this preview. Does it just last today or can you play those 21 360 games until the main feature is released in the fall?

And how do I become a preview member?
 
piggychan said:
I haven't played this in ages on the 360 but Mass Effect 1 seems to run smoother and I don't notice any texture load in like the original.

They still need to sort out the SNAP/Video capture for 360 games as I just tried it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNmb-ykWAM

Other thing which is a little pain is all the save files and DLCs need to be uploaded to cloud storage in order to continue on xbone.
Click to expand...

That cant be uploaded on the cloud unless they come out with it in the future.
 
Got a question, maybe someone in here knows enough about this to assist.

So before I sold my 360, I backed up all my saves to a USB, then transferred to my computer to archive. I suppose there won't be a way to directly transfer my saves from a USB to the XB1 that anyone is aware of? Or is it mandatory that the saves have to be stored in the cloud?

If so what I'm thinking I might have to do is borrow a friend's 360, recover gamertag, transfer saves to the console and sync to cloud from there.

EDIT:
Syriel said:
You would need to have the saves on a 360 before you could move them to the cloud.
Click to expand...

Ah, so it has to be that way. Thanks.
 
Will someone please make a thread where people can ask for invites to the Preview Program instead of cluttering this thread up with requests? One thing people should remember when asking for invites also is you have to be friends with someone in the Preview Program to send them and invite...
 
The Sum of Zero said:
Got a question, maybe someone in here knows enough about this to assist.

So before I sold my 360, I backed up all my saves to a USB, then transferred to my computer to archive. I suppose there won't be a way to directly transfer my saves from a USB to the XB1 that anyone is aware of? Or is it mandatory that the saves have to be stored in the cloud?

If so what I'm thinking I might have to do is borrow a friend's 360, recover gamertag, transfer saves to the console and sync to cloud from there.

EDIT:


Ah, so it has to be that way. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Solution could be to find a friend with a 360. You'd bring your saves to his/her 360, sign in on that Xbox 360 to your account, and then upload saves to the cloud from there.

Once there, they would be accessible on any Xbox with your account.

It's a bit convoluted, but it could be done.
 
I'd love if Tales of Vesperia were BC. I'd get use out of that. I've been wanting to re-play that, but I have no 360 anymore.
 
This would be a great time for MS to put a fair number of the preview titles on sale. However, with a decent amount being on the Rare game, I doubt they will.
 
Syriel said:
The first thing that comes to mind (and I'm just guessing here, I haven't torn into one of the emulator packages) is that the emulator was written with the assumption that all games are running from a GoD style install.

Why? For one, it would mean less work as they wouldn't have to worry about dealing with ODD pass through (or similar emulation). The second would be suspend support. If you want full suspend support for the virtual system (which didn't support suspend) then you can't rely on playing off a disc. The 360 would (in almost all cases) drop back to the dashboard if a disc was ejected.

With an emulation setup that needs to keep working if the system is suspended, you can't rely on the user remembering to reinsert the disc before resuming. Otherwise you'd end up with a lot of people doing the virtual equivalent of resetting their game and losing progress.

If you configure the emulator so that every game is running off of a GoD install and you don't have disc support (a 360 can run just fine w/o ever interacting with the disc drive for digital titles) then you can use the Xbox One suspend w/o risking breaking the emulation user experience.

This is the sort of thing that the product manager would have had to deal with.
Click to expand...

None of this really explains why they make you actually download a GoD version of the game rather than simply requiring a full install from the disc first. If the user had to install from their disc copy, then it would essentially be the same case as a GoD version... unless of course what we're downloading is more than a simple GoD copy.

As for the suspend resume stuff... considering the game will cesae functioning the moment the disc is removed from the X1, it doesn't actually change anything. The user would still have to remember to put the disc in for resuming to work.

Syriel said:
Patches and scratch/temp space required are two possible reasons for the size differences in the game + emulator image. It is a more efficient way to go if you assume most people will only have a handful of classic games installed at any given time. Otherwise, how do you decide how much space to allocate for the virtual hard drive? How does the end user configure that? What happens if it fills up? Etc.
Click to expand...

If you go to "Manage" for each game, you can see that there is a separate fixed reservation of 256mb per title. This would appear to be the safeguard you're describing, and wouldn't explain why the filesize delta flucatuates on a per game basis. Patches would already exist in my 360 file, and temp space if it were built into the game file directly shouldn't vary in size.
 
Synth said:
None of this really explains why they make you actually download a GoD version of the game rather than simply requiring a full install from the disc first. If the user had to install from their disc copy, then it would essentially be the same case as a GoD version... unless of course what we're downloading is more than a simple GoD copy.

As for the suspend resume stuff... considering the game will cesae functioning the moment the disc is removed from the X1, it doesn't actually change anything. The user would still have to remember to put the disc in for resuming to work.



If you go to "Manage" for each game, you can see that there is a separate fixed reservation of 256mb per title. This would appear to be the safeguard you're describing, and wouldn't explain why the filesize delta flucatuates on a per game basis. Patches would already exist in my 360 file, and temp space if it were built into the game file directly shouldn't vary in size.
Click to expand...

A GoD copy doesn't require the disc in the drive. If the emulator hasn't implemented ODD access for the virtual system, then the GoD way is the ONLY way.

If you have one of the games on disc, try this:
1) Boot game.
2) Suspend game.
3) Remove disc from drive.
4) Try to resume game.

When you put the disc back in, does it resume from where it left off?

Patches on the 360 are never installed into the original game file. The original package is always untouched. This is different than what's done on the Xbox One.

If they're just packaging up the existing files, it would have to be the original game plus any patches (title updates). For the most part those title updates live in an "invisible" partition (they don't show up when you browse storage on a retail 360) and they can be wiped by performing maintenance on a system storage unit. Bigger TUs are placed into permanent storage and do show up in the UI.
 
Curious if games will be added bit by bit all the time or if they will dump 50 at a time. Can't wait to play old Trials games on the XB1.
 
Too bad my only available game is Hexic HD right now and that runs perfectly smooth and crisp. I bought so little digital last gen so I'm sitting here with 100+ disc games, and I can't wait to use them all and finally complete some!

The dumb part is I have my 360 still hooked up so I'm perfectly able, just to lazy I think
 
Syriel said:
A GoD copy doesn't require the disc in the drive. If the emulator hasn't implemented ODD access for the virtual system, then the GoD way is the ONLY way.

If you have one of the games on disc, try this:
1) Boot game.
2) Suspend game.
3) Remove disc from drive.
4) Try to resume game.

When you put the disc back in, does it resume from where it left off?

Patches on the 360 are never installed into the original game file. The original package is always untouched. This is different than what's done on the Xbox One.

If they're just packaging up the existing files, it would have to be the original game plus any patches (title updates). For the most part those title updates live in an "invisible" partition (they don't show up when you browse storage on a retail 360) and they can be wiped by performing maintenance on a system storage unit. Bigger TUs are placed into permanent storage and do show up in the UI.
Click to expand...

Ok, I get what you're saying in regards to the GoD stuff now. Even though the X1 is checking the disc, it doesn't necessarily mean the virtual 360 can see if. That's a fair enough point.

I'm currently installing (downloading) my disc copy of Viva Pinata, and will run through your steps and let you know the result. I don't really think it makes a whole lot of difference though, as the disc being absent would mean the game simply wouldn't resume anyway, so it would be the same either way.

As for the patching, that makes sense, but again there is already a visible reservation of 256mb per game that doesn't show on the 360. Wouldn't this be where the patches would go, meaning that it shouldn't effect the size of the other file (the game itself) on the X1 HDD? I'd guess 256mb was the max patch size last gen. Besides even if this wasn't the space reserved. Why wouldn't the reserved space be the same for every title? What if Super Meat Boy gets patched again tomorrow?
 
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