Sony is officially helping with funding and development with Shenmue 3
- Thread starter kamakazi5
- Start date
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Because of the same reasons you just outlined. People who preorder are going to expect a full game by now, specially since I've never seen a publisher/developer say "if we have X amount of preorders we will make the game".
What if you don't get the amount of preorders? People are going to be mad at the devs because they just teased them with a game that will never happen. At least with Kickstarter, if it failed (not going to happen, considering it's doing amazingly) all the people who say who would give thousands of dollars are the ones who didn't fullfill their end of the bargain, so to say. As you say above in another post, this is a great opportunity for Shenmue fans to finally continue their story, something that would not have been possible any other way.
ForsakenLotus
Member
The game probably hasn't even begun intensive development. When people see a game is available to be pre-ordered, they believe it's because it's coming out relatively soon. A pre-order for a game 3 or 4 years out is unheard of as far as I know.
Plus, let's be frank. With Kickstarter, fans have the option to pledge $200, $300, $500 dollars for incentives. This helps gives the developer more money per customer than just pre-ordering.
You thought this game was being made with $2 million?
Or did you think Sony would have no part in this?
Please explain.
Of course they are.
From the moment they announced it on stage, I thought it was pretty clear that this kKickstarter is not all about the money. It's more about proving to the publisher (whomever it may be, Sony even) that there's an audience, that people are willing to buy this title.
From the moment they announced it on stage, I thought it was pretty clear that this kKickstarter is not all about the money. It's more about proving to the publisher (whomever it may be, Sony even) that there's an audience, that people are willing to buy this title.
A) Not different than any other KS or standard game development. Meaningless in the big picture as it's guaranteed to happen and had already happened. It had little to no implications other than made some devs look dumb and disappointed some people.
B) They are for mid sized projects. If you hadn't noticed that entire tier got decimated by the increase in costs and risk last gen. There is nothing wrong is all further mid sized projects need a kick starter. Whats the problem with that?
I am not sure what the backlash is here, do people think it costs 4 million to make a game? its not even a fraction of the cost of development.
Sure getting a kick starter going and succeeding is showing that there is a huge demand for it plus u get getting the game free.
I pledged 60$
Sure getting a kick starter going and succeeding is showing that there is a huge demand for it plus u get getting the game free.
I pledged 60$
ForsakenLotus
Member
People keep saying "What if a game falls through," as if it hasn't already happened with Kickstarted games and won't happen again. I don't understand the thought process of a big name publisher helping fund a game increases the chances of a game getting completed versus a Kickstarted game with no publisher to help if they need more money. It's asinine.
down 2 orth
Member
I think we're underestimating how well Sony understands their audience here (I'm not going to say the same of Sega, because it's been evident for a long time that they've had trouble understanding the NA market). They wouldn't have wasted an expensive E3 presentation on a kickstarter that had even the smallest chance of failing. And even when this game gets 10-20% of its development funded by its fans, Sega and Sony are still going to have to invest in the rest of the development, and you can be sure that they are both exceptionally risk-averse in undertaking any venture. I highly doubt they are making this game without a high degree of certainty that it will churn a profit.
Neff
Member
Yeah, it still strikes me as weird. I know hard copies of games was a first with Bloodstained, but with Sony publishing the game, it's surprising they're not able to offer via the KS.
I'm actually considering withdrawing my pledge (they obviously don't need it) and waiting for a hard copy. If it doesn't happen, I'll just go digital.
Littlefang
Member
I guess I would just rather the trend be to open up pre-orders before development rather than using Kickstarter to fund every game within existence. I mean I know I'm probably overreacting to this becoming commonplace, but first Bloodstained and now Shenmue indicates that this kind of thing is becoming a trend that I think has the potential to really hurt the consumer.
I don't think kickstarter should be used as a tool to eliminate all the risk for developers and publishers when they make a game. I just don't understand how this is good in the long term.
This.
Fully this.
IF Shenmue was just funded on KS, the chance of failure could be there.
Sony backing it?
Does no one remember the kind of patience they had keeping The Last Guardian from failing/canceling?
OR, lets hear the other ideas everyone else has that would have made this game happen without support from sony.
This seems like a fun one.
You aren't alone.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I think you( and many others )are overestimating how much Sony going to put into this game.
If this really is a pub fund type thing don't expect more than a few million at most.
Like EVERY KickStarter campaign, right?
I don't know if we are living in the same world anymore if this is really what you find to be your truth.
GANGSTERKILLER
Member
The interview on YT with Yu Suzuki & Gio Corsi.
This still feels like it didn't happened. Fucking surreal.
https://youtu.be/yPgiRIR07qU
This still feels like it didn't happened. Fucking surreal.
https://youtu.be/yPgiRIR07qU
Bornstellar
Member
In retrospect, Adam's little spiel about this being completely their thing and having nothing to do with it feels a bit disingenuous.
down 2 orth
Member
But this isn't like any other kickstarter. It's a phenomenal success that has shattered all the records in a ridiculous amount of time.
Finally! Made it to the latest page!
Wow at some people, this thread can die due to a heart attack because of the high concentrations of salt.
Be happy, we live in a timeline or universe (whatever you want to call it) where: TLG didn't get canceled, Shenmue III is a reality and a FFVII remake happened.
Also, thanks Blobber for the birth of a new meme.. now whenever someone pulls the I'm an expert meme, expect the Blobber meme (name is subject to change)
Wow at some people, this thread can die due to a heart attack because of the high concentrations of salt.
Be happy, we live in a timeline or universe (whatever you want to call it) where: TLG didn't get canceled, Shenmue III is a reality and a FFVII remake happened.
Also, thanks Blobber for the birth of a new meme.. now whenever someone pulls the I'm an expert meme, expect the Blobber meme (name is subject to change)
PeskyToaster
Member
Kickstarter just allows you to throw your own money into the secretive world of greenlighting projects.
A major Kickstarter should fail so people get a taste of what investors are going through when they put up millions for these titles.
It's a different avenue to the same goal. The only difference is the sausage-making is a bit more visible now. If it gets games made I am all for it.
A major Kickstarter should fail so people get a taste of what investors are going through when they put up millions for these titles.
It's a different avenue to the same goal. The only difference is the sausage-making is a bit more visible now. If it gets games made I am all for it.
Ragingnight
Member
can somebody explain the bloodstain incident?
ForsakenLotus
Member
Games are expensive to make. If there is less risk involved with making a game, a publisher is more likely to fund a risky game. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer a game exist and potentially not on a platform I own than a game doesn't exist at all.
At the end of the day, Sony wants to make money just like any other business. However, they have shown the willingness to make games that are unlikely to make much of a profit.
Plus, I think you are overestimating how confident Sony was that Shenmue 3 would not only meet the Kickstarter goals, but not be a huge money sink as well. I imagine that every dollar over the $2 mil goal is either less money that Sony has to spend on the overall budget (let's pretend it's $20 mil), and therefore a less risky proposition for a very risky game, or more money into the budget so it is a higher chance it will come out.
Sony's other option was to write Yu a $20 mil check and cross their fingers they don't lose tons of money like the first two games.
I just feel--huge emphasis on the feel--feel that a corporation using what I feel to be a platform at face-value used for independent creators to use crowdfunding for a project. I feel a corporation using crowdfunding to measure interest is kind of deceiving. I'm not thinking or saying anything, I feel this way. Obviously, my feeling is not the true case here as Sony/Adam Boyes are being damn pretty upfront and honest about it ([Edit:] After the fact, so kind of but not really). But it feels deceiving to me, and it's a strategy that could be certainly used dishonestly for true deception, and it's a strategy that I'm really questioning ethically. I can't explain what I think about this entirely yet but this is what I feel now in the heat of things.
I'm not that big a fan of crowdfunding anyway, but am a huge fan of DIY, so that's also probably coloring my feelings.
[Edit:] Eh. Maybe not. I don't know what I'm trying to say. Maybe I'll get back to you later.
I think you badly over estimate how much a company can know ahead of time. Ever done market research? Good luck getting anything more than a superficial read.
On the other hand you're under estimating how much of a free hand Sony gives some devs. A lot of their 2nd party and first party stuff is art house fare because they think it elevates their platform even if it doesn't make a lot of money. Will they throw 70m like Sega did to Shenmue 1 or 2? not likely. But it'll problably have enough budget to tell a story as big as Heavy Rain or Beyond Two Souls.
It doesn't even come close to eliminating the risk. It's basically just a market barometer which is more efficient than a random survey. People respond differently when you ask them about something or when you ask them to put money into it. KS is pittance amounts; it just functions as a market research survey for medium sized projects.
A 5m KS is big for KS. A 5m game is small for most games. Even many successful KS indie games had to get additional funding ot make the products and make their KS rewards.
Yup. It was a good move.
No. It was $47 million for the creation of Shenmue 1, Shenmue 2, Engine R&D, and other general production cost. From this, it could be assumed that Shenmue 1 or 2 was actually around $12 - 20 million.
Yup. Sony also confirmed this officially in an interview and you also have to bear in mind that the PC is not their platform. Now, if we want a much bigger game though then the kickstarter funding need to continue going as the funding from Sony will obviously be a certain amount.
Khaos_Knight
Banned
Anyone can sign a petition but it takes real dedication to put your money where your mouth is and pledge money in support of something.
Can you blame them though? Sometimes gamers can be all bark and no bite when it comes to games.
They should have just come out and said this on the show floor. The important thing is we're finally getting Shenmue 3, and if it needs kickstarter funding to happen, so be it.
It's really scummy for sony to outright DENY involvement on the showfloor and then flip-flop as soon as the game hits its funding goals.
Not that bothered tbh, but slightly.
It's really scummy for sony to outright DENY involvement on the showfloor and then flip-flop as soon as the game hits its funding goals.
Not that bothered tbh, but slightly.
HueyFreeman
Banned
^ This.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, it was a strange lie.
Lol, it absolutely does not. Investors invest with expectations of getting richer. People kickstart to get a game cheaper. Devs responsibilities are to investors first. Different expectations. Different experiences.
HueyFreeman
Banned
This. There seem to be some people that can't comprehend that there's a contingent of us that were going to buy this *almost regardless of how it turned it, just to support Yu Suzuki, so kickstarting it is a no-brainer. Getting it for 30 dollars is frankly kind of unbelievable to me.
Really can't see how Sony throwing their PR weight behind fucking Shenmue 3 - Shenmue 3, people! I'm typing it in a sentence as an actual thing! - is an any way a bad thing.
Some really strange responses to all the glory at this E3.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I'm fine with this. Now make Shenmue HD Collection happen, Sony. Surely you can convince Sega.
Not really, how is this different from Iga and Deep Silver?
tokilamockingbrd
Member
The fact that the goal was only 2 million did not clue you into this?
I mean 2 million barely gets the project off the ground. It was clear other money was going to come in to make it happen.
Sony said: "Ok so you say you want it, put you money where your mouth is" and we did.
No argument there. Perhaps they didn't want to confuse anyone but I won't make excuses for them.
ForsakenLotus
Member
I do understand what you mean. What I would say is you have to judge each project on its own merits. The Kickstarter being announced at Sony's E3 conference, with a $2 mil goal, and a PC/PS4 platform promise with no mention of other potential platforms is pretty blatant, in my opinion. Still, I won't fault you for feeling how you feel because it does have the potential to be abused; but unfortunately Kickstarter in general always has the possibility that a project has shady intentions from the beginning or people unqualified/untrustworthy running the project.
TheSpoiler
Member
I assume they "lied" because if the project didn't make the 2 million, then they wouldn't earn the ire of gamers for NOT funding it, despite the fact that Sony wouldn't be the ones at fault for that.
Plus, it allows them to prove games like this can exist in the gaming ecosystem that is next gen to the stock holders. Sony is a business. You can't just greenlight this shit and go with it. There are levels of people you need to convince, and a game that didn't recoup millions isn't the safest venue to pursue.
On another side of things, since Sony is funding the rest of this game, that's less of a chance of the title not coming out since a gigantic corporation could probably get nuked with lawsuits for not finishing their end of the product. Maybe.
Plus, it allows them to prove games like this can exist in the gaming ecosystem that is next gen to the stock holders. Sony is a business. You can't just greenlight this shit and go with it. There are levels of people you need to convince, and a game that didn't recoup millions isn't the safest venue to pursue.
On another side of things, since Sony is funding the rest of this game, that's less of a chance of the title not coming out since a gigantic corporation could probably get nuked with lawsuits for not finishing their end of the product. Maybe.
Neverforget
Member
It's still coming on PC either way, so I honestly don't care if sony take it under its wing, more funding provide more freedom to the devs hopefully and we will get a great game.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Big Kickstarters like this are meant to gauge interest, I'm not the least bit surprised.
Hell, I don't even care. Lie, cheat, steal, do whatever you have to do to get the game out.
Yes, this. WE ARE GETTING SHENMUE 3. Just think about that.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Well duh. It was pretty obvious they were funding it.
Please, just let me have a physical PS4 copy Sony!
Please, just let me have a physical PS4 copy Sony!
And think about if they did it without a backing.
What happens if they make $10 million at close of the KS?
You get 30% of the game you really want.
Great job getting "some" of the funding to make a almost stellar game.
I think you are blinded by its success after the fact.
Did No Mans Sky think it was going to be hot news to the world when they started making it?
Did you think Bloodstained knew they would reach any of their goals?
You put the idea out there, and then you wait for the reaction.
You can't put the idea out there if you have nothing to show.
You can't make something without money to first make it.
You can't show something that hasn't been first made.
You can't publish something that doesn't have support.
Go into any game studio and try and pitch a game idea. Was it successful? If no, try again.
If yes, start concept development, and R&D with a static budget.
1~2 years later, show your idea to the guys that pay you to make games.
They like it? No, time to redo, or scrap the project, no new funding in most cases.
They like it? Yes! now we need to work out how much we can actually spend on this.
New budget is made, set in milestones, must make deadlines or funding suffers.
Good luck getting shenmue thru by corporate standards.
The fact that they used 2 methods to get this game funded was a smart move for them, and creates trust in the developer for Sony to feel safe enough to back without feeling they had to do more than just sit back and watch.
Now, lets go to lala land and say Shenmue does the impossible and raises $60 million.
They could still fail.
It does not have Sega/Sony/MS behind it to make sure things are going smoothly, or using staff from other areas to help when its needed.
Everything that has happened, happened to make this game possible.
I remember the salt from the Sega fanboys when Xbox got a bunch of the Dreamcast games.
This feels like needless salt when the game is still coming to PC(most people have) and a console (20million people have).
Holy shit at this thread.
People feeling deceived or whatever because a corporation told a white lie. lol
The game is coming out, some people are already paying to get it, this is really the case where everyone should be happy, although I'm guessing most of the people concerned with the "sanctity" of Sony's act won't even be getting the game.
The amount of negativity aimed towards Sony really surprises me, not only in this thread, but what I learned from GAF is that their entire conference was a way for them to hide the fact that they "don't have any games coming out this Fall". lol
Having the ability of critical thinking doesn't mean you have to be negative about everything, but sometimes i feel people on the Internet force themselves to feel that way and nitpick something absurdily because being negative gives you the upper hand in discussions, puts you above the situation or whatever.
People feeling deceived or whatever because a corporation told a white lie. lol
The game is coming out, some people are already paying to get it, this is really the case where everyone should be happy, although I'm guessing most of the people concerned with the "sanctity" of Sony's act won't even be getting the game.
The amount of negativity aimed towards Sony really surprises me, not only in this thread, but what I learned from GAF is that their entire conference was a way for them to hide the fact that they "don't have any games coming out this Fall". lol
Having the ability of critical thinking doesn't mean you have to be negative about everything, but sometimes i feel people on the Internet force themselves to feel that way and nitpick something absurdily because being negative gives you the upper hand in discussions, puts you above the situation or whatever.
BONKERS
Member
Exactly!!
Fuck dude, I wish big companies would do this more often just so we can show them. That YES we do WANT that kind of thing to be made.
Or at the very least, if users provide a % of the final budget, like half. The company will invest the other half. Users get KS Rewards. Game gets released commerically. They have less risk, they know people want it. And it's out there for people to buy for forever and a day