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[Recall]

This has happened countless times. Kick starter gauges interest, publishers agree to help if it meets the goal.

How are people so surprised by this and even if you are, who cares? Backers helped make a dream become a reality, kudos to you. 2 million isn't a lot so game was always going to need way more funding.

 

[De_Legend]

You have a game. Its fans have been begging for it for, what, 14 years. You say okay, to do this, you, you and you, we need your money. You? We dont need yours, even if you were as passsionate about seeing the series return as the rest of them. Why? Because we made a deal with a single publisher who , by the way, dont give a shit about whether this game returns unless you own their console and pony up the cash up front to ensure they get a return.

It is hilarious to me that Sony are being held up as heroes of the hardcore gaming community or, better yet, champions of the hardcore Shenmue fans. This is just good old fashioned dirty business. As usual.

Me? I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

You know it's on PC too, right?

 

[rockman zx]

Even MS abandoned shenmue for 14 years. They could have picked up Shenmue 3 during their 360 era when they spent endless money into japanese developers.

And now sony picked it up after looking at the request of gamers. Sony deserve credit here.

Indeed and you can beat Suzuki had talks with Microsoft or Nintendo about it over the years but Sony was the only one willing to pay the checks.

 

[Meaty]

I was expecting to do the next gen jump with uncharted 4, but Fallout 4 also looks pretty great, Im going with it.


Uncharted 2 being the first game a person played last gen was quite an experience and something I wanted for myself this gen



Edit: I actually posted this on the wrong thread im retarded.

 

[kuroshiki]

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

What?

No No No No.

Why do you think no one picked up Shenmue 3 for past fucking 14 years. Answer me this.

 

[Totobeni]

I wonder if this means there will be a Shenmue IV on the PS4.

I think Yu will try to finish the story in one game, he can't risk it.

Sony helping, SEGA -by a miracle- giving him the right to use a license..ect, I think he'll need to put everything and all remaining chapters (chapter 7~16) in this one.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Even MS abandoned shenmue for 14 years. They could have picked up Shenmue 3 during their 360 era when they spent endless money into japanese developers.

And now sony picked it up after looking at the request of gamers. Sony deserve credit here.

I agree. I am only speaking on the narrative at play by certain posters.

 

[kuroshiki]

I agree. I am only speaking on the narrative at play by certain posters.

Oh I agree with you too.

 

[staticneuron]

Huh? Sony obviously made a deal with Yu Suzuki/Ys before today, conditional or not. Your rhetoric isn't very convincing here.

But the real question is why wasn't Sony upfront with their involvement when they announced it?

Are you guys being serious? Sony's support most likely depended on the success of the kickstarter meaning if it didn't hit a certain goal they would not get involved with the game.

It is as simple as that. When they helped announced it they were not involved.

Why is that a hard concept to grasp. Do you need some sort of a graph or infographic? Even if the deal was, if you hit a goal we will help, that still means.... they weren't involved until the starter hit the goal. It is a binary choice.

 

[GavinGT]

You have a game. Its fans have been begging for it for, what, 14 years. You say okay, to do this, you, you and you, we need your money. You? We dont need yours, even if you were as passsionate about seeing the series return as the rest of them. Why? Because we made a deal with a single publisher who , by the way, dont give a shit about whether this game returns unless you own their console and pony up the cash up front to ensure they get a return.

It is hilarious to me that Sony are being held up as heroes of the hardcore gaming community or, better yet, champions of the hardcore Shenmue fans. This is just good old fashioned dirty business. As usual.

Me? I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

This is fucking nuts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Oh I agree with you too.

I am just glad the PS4 is rebounding the Japanese console game market that the 360 helped smother with paid exclusives on a box Japan didn't want. Almost crippled some of these studios.

Getting serious PS2 vibes this gen.

 

[Earthanoid]

I don't get why people are upset about this either. It makes sense to me, the reality is that very few people actually played Shenmue and the last installment was more than 10 years ago. It would be kind of crazy for them to pick it up without gauging interest first.

That said, I've got an unplayed copy of Shenmue and a Dreamcast in my attic... It might be time to see what the hype is about.

 

[vcc]

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

Gamer's aren't taking the risk here. Each backer is getting out of it what they want. The publisher is still taking the lion share of risks. They just have a pool of enthusiastic super early pre-orders.

It's utterly acceptable; as it's reviving many beloved franchises. If you feel that way, dont' back it, don't buy it, and don't think about it.

 

[Death Metalist]

What I learned from all of this experience is that people will still complain even if they were in heaven. Who cares though, I pledged 300$. I'M IN DEEP, LET'S FINISH THE 14 YEAR OLD STORY.

Spoiler

It took 14 years for someone to say "let's continue this thing", isn't it sad?

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Are you guys being serious? Sony's support most likely depended on the success of the kickstarter meaning if it didn't hit a certain goal they would not get involved with the game.

It is as simple as that. When they helped announced it they were not involved.

Why is that a hard concept to grasp. Do you need some sort of a graph or infographic? Even if the deal was, if you hit a goal we will help, that still means.... they weren't involved until the starter hit the goal. It is a binary choice.

I think people are saying they would have liked to know that on stage (even though it really makes zero difference).

But it's also obvious why Sony didn't do that. That looks like really shitty PR to bring someone out on stage and say "hey, we don't really believe in this guy's project, but if you guys show tangible interest, we're down!" So they bit their tongue until they could make a positive announcement.

 

[Regulus Tera]

This is the biggest scam of crowdfunding and I love it.

 

[vcc]

I think people are saying they would have liked to know that on stage (even though it really makes zero difference).

But it's also obvious why Sony didn't do that. That looks like really shitty PR to bring someone out on stage and say "hey, we don't really believe in this guy's project, but if you guys show tangible interest, we're down!" So they bit their tongue until they could make a positive announcement.

It's like they're a for profit corporation or something.

 

[leroidys]

This has happened countless times. Kick starter gauges interest, publishers agree to help if it meets the goal.

How are people so surprised by this and even if you are, who cares? Backers helped make a dream become a reality, kudos to you.

What if bloodstained was revealed to be konami published after it reached it's goals? As a backer I would be fucking pissed. Even worse, what if you had kicked a couple hundred or even thousand to your dream game only to find out once it reaches its goals that it is funded by a publisher with easily enough money to avoid needing a kickstarter- moreover one that stands to gain a lot of money from its success?


The precedent here is TERRIBLE, and it takes a pathological level of corporate adoration to attack others unhappy with how this was presented.

Are you guys being serious? Sony's support most likely depended on the success of the kickstarter meaning if it didn't hit a certain goal they would not get involved with the game.

It is as simple as that. When they helped announced it they were not involved.

Why is that a hard concept to grasp. Do you need some sort of a graph or infographic? Even if the deal was, if you hit a goal we will help, that still means.... they weren't involved until the starter hit the goal. It is a binary choice.

For the kickstarter to happen, they were already involved with the game. The business world operates based on things called contractual obligations.

 

[Littlefang]

What the difference with any other KS project? Will you be happier if KS project fails and this project have no publisher involvement?
Actually chances that publisher backed project will fail are lower that those of independent project as publisher might provide additional funds in case of something goes wrong.

For some reason I think that you are trying to compare publisher backed KS project to fully funded publisher project and not just any other KS project. And it was pretty clear stated that franchise is not strong enough (from commercial perspective, not emotional one) to be in fully funded category. Publishers (Sony included) have no problem with funding projects if they feel that it's viable and profitable.

The problem is that this can't be compared to most other kickstarted games because it has a significant developer funding it. And the problem with the kickstarter is that they only asked for 2 million (what they achieved after this is irrelevant because that isn't what they asked for) is likely only a very small portion of what this game actually costs to make. I will say I have equal problems with both Bloodstained and Amplitude.

I don't want the game to fail, but it's basically inevitable for a game that is funded this way (a small portion by kickstarter and a large portion by a single external source) is going to fail. And why should consumers be so accepting for this to happen?

And clearly this is not a huge issue if this only occurs with a handful of games, but what is stopping this from being commonplace in a few years?

 

[Kazaam]

I'm sorry but this is completely and utterly unacceptable. Instead of Sony taking the risk you want to pass on that risk to the gamers?

Left this thread a couple of hours ago, coming back now I find the same shit. The fans are not backing Sony, the fans are backing YsNet. These money don't go to Sony, they go to YsNet to make Shenmue 3. This is not a Sony game... Sony is just supporting and helping with other investments.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I am just glad the PS4 is rebounding the Japanese console game market that the 360 helped smother with paid exclusives on a box Japan didn't want. Almost crippled some of these studios.

Getting serious PS2 vibes this gen.

Ehhh, i think the console market collapsing in Japan has a lot more to do with the PS3 just being shitty and difficult to work with. It made it even riskier for JP devs to pursue consoles, so they turned to handhelds.

It's like they're a for profit corporation or something.

No need for the snark (unless it's just in general, and not directed at me) just explaining to people, who don't understand, why Sony wouldn't want to look stingy on stage and ruin a moment.

 

[Footos22]

Don't see the problem. Myself. Some people upset it's not on xbox? The kickstarter never mentioned it once.

shenmue is a reality and Sony helped make it happen. Kickstarting on its own would of made it either terrible or a very short game for 2 million.

 

[wachie]

Can you go into more detail? I don't understand what you're trying to say in this post.

I think you are taking his words a literally. By "their project" he could have meant a host of things like "we don't own IP", "its not our game" etc. If you go only by Boyes' statement at the conference, then it seems like Suzuki approached Sony that he was going the KS route and they wanted in, hence featured him on their show and achieved the goal.

I fail to see where the OMGZ WE WERE LIED TO part was.

People are making this out to be all kinds of sinister.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

The main issue I have with the whole thing is that consumers are not guaranteed to get the end product. What happens if Sony and the Shenmue development team have a falling out and Sony decides to pull out of the project? These things can't be predicted.

No offense, but I feel like you overreacted and now you keep talking in circles. You say a game like COD won't ever be Kickstarted...Shenmue 3 isn't anything near COD. It's a niche game. You mention Deadly Premonition...a niche game. The precedent that was set, and NOT by Sony, is that some projects on Kickstarter are for showing a publisher/manufacturer that there is a concrete and identifiable baseline amount of consumers for a product. It's for niche games and risky projects. It's ridiculous to blame Sony for using Kickstarter for a very risky product.

Plus, I'm sure there is this thing called a contract. Pretty commonplace in business transactions. Sony is very, very unlikely to get upset with Yu and just take their metaphorical ball and go home. Not only would it be a breach on contract, but it would engender a tremendous amount of ire.

All of these things you are "worried" about are illogical on many levels. Sony announced The Last Guardian, a game that has been in development hell since 2007. They even had the director, who I believe quit the game and was brought back as a contractor (or some other variation), sitting near the front row so they could give him his spotlight.

I think you really need to reflect on why you are being so cynical and paranoid.

 

[nasax]

I think people are saying they would have liked to know that on stage (even though it really makes zero difference).

But it's also obvious why Sony didn't do that. That looks like really shitty PR to bring someone out on stage and say "hey, we don't really believe in this guy's project, but if you guys show tangible interest, we're down!" So they bit their tongue until they could make a positive announcement.

And yet, here we are.

 

[immortal-joe]

Fucking investments, how do they work?


Small point: it's not about Sony / Yu needing that 2 or 3 million. It's about seeing how fast they can reach those targets to convince the actual corporate-wallet owners to pay up.

You invested in the hopes of getting Shenmue 3. You are getting Shenmue 3. You are not involved in the "how" process.

There's no "precedence" being set here that wasn't set before, in this and various other industries.

This doesn't mean that Activision will launch a Kickstarter for COD, but it may further encourage creatives out there to use Kickstarter to prove to publishers and companies that there is demand for what they're creating.

 

[Putty]

You have a game. Its fans have been begging for it for, what, 14 years. You say okay, to do this, you, you and you, we need your money. You? We dont need yours, even if you were as passsionate about seeing the series return as the rest of them. Why? Because we made a deal with a single publisher who , by the way, dont give a shit about whether this game returns unless you own their console and pony up the cash up front to ensure they get a return.

It is hilarious to me that Sony are being held up as heroes of the hardcore gaming community or, better yet, champions of the hardcore Shenmue fans. This is just good old fashioned dirty business. As usual.

Me? I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

Can.Not.Unsee

 

[gamerforever]

The way i see it is without us the game wouldn't even be a reality, so why are people complaining about the kickstarter unveil.

Sony were the only ones willing to support shenmue 3 and for that they should be respected for pretty much the whole generation.

Owning a ps4 is not even an option, it really is the best home console out there.

 

[leroidys]

I think you are taking his words a literally. By "their project" he could have meant a host of things like "we don't own IP", "its not our game" etc. If you go only by Boyes' statement at the conference, then it seems like Suzuki approached Sony that he was going the KS route and they wanted in, hence featured him on their show and achieved the goal.

I fail to see where the OMGZ WE WERE LIED TO part was.

People are making this out to be all kinds of sinister.

At the very least it's deliberate misdirection, which I don't see as very distinct from what we're talking about.

 

[Strangelove77]

Holy shit, people are complaining about this. I'm getting the fuck out of here.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

What if bloodstained was revealed to be konami published after it reached it's goals? As a backer I would be fucking pissed. Even worse, what if you had kicked a couple hundred or even thousand to your dream game only to find out once it reaches its goals that it is funded by a publisher with easily enough money to avoid needing a kickstarter- moreover one that stands to gain a lot of money from its success?


The precedent here is TERRIBLE, and it takes a pathological level of corporate adoration to attack others unhappy with how this was presented.




For the kickstarter to happen, they were already involved with the game. The business world operates based on things called contractual obligations.

Wait.... you do realize that Bloodstained DOES have an unnamed publisher putting up the brunt of the funding, right? And that funding is only guaranteed as a multiplier of the KS funding. This is literally the same exact scenario.

 

[OverdriveOtaku]

The KS is so close to $3 million now and it has a whole month to go. Wow.

As far as companies using Kickstarter in combination with dev/pub funding, this has been done before, right? Didn't Koji say in the video for Bloodstained that they had a company lined up to help with funding but wanted to use KS to help gauge interest in the project? I can't remember if Mighty No. 9 also was set up like this or not.

If this is what it takes for projects like this to get off the ground, as we can clearly see, people have no problem heeding the call. It really seems that no company had any interest in Shenmue III. Since the KS is now a success for the most part in record time, I wonder if either Sony or Sega will help with bringing 1 & 2 to current platforms, whether in HD or not.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

This is 4 the players!

 

[Kazaam]

You have a game. Its fans have been begging for it for, what, 14 years. You say okay, to do this, you, you and you, we need your money. You? We dont need yours, even if you were as passsionate about seeing the series return as the rest of them. Why? Because we made a deal with a single publisher who , by the way, dont give a shit about whether this game returns unless you own their console and pony up the cash up front to ensure they get a return.

It is hilarious to me that Sony are being held up as heroes of the hardcore gaming community or, better yet, champions of the hardcore Shenmue fans. This is just good old fashioned dirty business. As usual.

Me? I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

Hmmm...

 

[vcc]

What if bloodstained was revealed to be konami published after it reached it's goals? As a backer I would be fucking pissed. Even worse, what if you had kicked a couple hundred or even thousand to your dream game only to find out once it reaches its goals that it is funded by a publisher with easily enough money to avoid needing a kickstarter- moreover one that stands to gain a lot of money from its success?


The precedent here is TERRIBLE, and it takes a pathological level of corporate adoration to attack others unhappy with how this was presented.




For the kickstarter to happen, they were already involved with the game. The business world operates with things called contractual obligations.

That's just the reality of how things get made; not enough people could pool together to get a mid sized game up. Only indies. This amplifies the reach of people on KS.

So instead of your $20 funding nethack clone #35; it fund shenmue 3. KS is a for profit corporation. There is a for profit corporation involved in every KS. All the devs asking for KS money want to be for profit corporations.

Think of it this way; instead of making Killzone:Terrible in Game Story 4, sony is backing shenmue 3. All they needed was a KS organized market research campaign.

 

[leroidys]

Wait.... you do realize that Bloodstained DOES have an unnamed publisher putting up the brunt of the funding, right? And that funding is only guaranteed as a multiplier of the KS funding. This is literally the same exact scenario.

The KS is so close to $3 million now and it has a whole month to go. Wow.

As far as companies using Kickstarter in combination with dev/pub funding, this has been done before, right? Didn't Koji say in the video for Bloodstained that they had a company lined up to help with funding but wanted to use KS to help gauge interest in the project? I can't remember if Mighty No. 9 also was set up like this or not.

If this is what it takes for projects like this to get off the ground, as we can clearly see, people have no problem heeding the call. It really seems that no company had any interest in Shenmue III. Since the KS is now a success for the most part in record time, I wonder if either Sony or Sega will help with bringing 1 & 2 to current platforms, whether in HD or not.

No, I honestly did not know this ;_;

Welp.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Ehhh, i think the console market collapsing in Japan has a lot more to do with the PS3 just being shitty and difficult to work with. It made it even riskier for JP devs to pursue consoles, so they turned to handhelds.

It is a combination of things for sure, the PS2 was not so easy either to develop. Investing in IPs that did not really sell on a platform that probably still cost them 10s of millions to make stings for these developers. No matter the money hats given.

 

[Felensis]

For me it's fine and was quite obvious that Sony is stepping in once they've got the 2$m.
Ppl getting upset about that seem to have forgotten the last 14yrs of constantly begging for Shenmue 3 to happen. Without Sony I think we would look into another 14yrs of begging for it at least.

 

[Electret]

You have a game. Its fans have been begging for it for, what, 14 years. You say okay, to do this, you, you and you, we need your money. You? We dont need yours, even if you were as passsionate about seeing the series return as the rest of them. Why? Because we made a deal with a single publisher who , by the way, dont give a shit about whether this game returns unless you own their console and pony up the cash up front to ensure they get a return.

It is hilarious to me that Sony are being held up as heroes of the hardcore gaming community or, better yet, champions of the hardcore Shenmue fans. This is just good old fashioned dirty business. As usual.

Me? I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

Just want to make sure I understand the attribution of blame here. It's:

1) Yu Suzuki for making a console exclusive deal, and
2) Sony's fault for not publishing a game on competing platforms

Do I have that right?

 

[vcc]

No need for the snark (unless it's just in general, and not directed at me) just explaining to people, who don't understand, why Sony wouldn't want to look stingy on stage and ruin a moment.

Sorry it's not directed at you. I agree with you. It's directed at the negative nellies who think Sony backing Shenmue 3 is literally the worst thing to happen to gaming.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

No, I honestly did not know this ;_;

Welp.

Yea man, KS has kinda turned into this for awhile now. And I'm honestly not even upset by it. It's just like when Square Enix launched The Collective. Publishers are getting more risk averse, and they know that means their portfolio of games will get safer and more boring. If this "testing the waters" approach is what it takes to get big budget creative titles to keep getting made, I'm down for it.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

The problem is that this can't be compared to most other kickstarted games because it has a significant developer funding it. And the problem with the kickstarter is that they only asked for 2 million (what they achieved after this is irrelevant because that isn't what they asked for) is likely only a very small portion of what this game actually costs to make. I will say I have equal problems with both Bloodstained and Amplitude.

I don't want the game to fail, but it's basically inevitable for a game that is funded this way (a small portion by kickstarter and a large portion by a single external source) is going to fail. And why should consumers be so accepting for this to happen?

And clearly this is not a huge issue if this only occurs with a handful of games, but what is stopping this from being commonplace in a few years?

Read this carefully: the risk for consumers who back a Kickstarted game is exactly the same as one Kickstarted with help from a publisher. You pledge money and hope the game is made. Stop being delusional! If Shenmue is cancelled despite Sony's help, the people who pledged money will get nothing just the same as if Sony were never involved. And since Yu owns the rights to make the game, he presumably could do another Kickstarter and ask for enough money to finish the game.

Serious question here, do you own any Sony consoles?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I'm no longer a diehard shenmue fan per this community because i wont play ball, pay for a ps4, and turn around and hand money over to reward shady behind the curtain deals

Judging by this post, you probably never were anyways.

This is the biggest scam of crowdfunding and I love it.

I don't think people know what a "scam" is.

 

[Klendathu Club Owner]

It was pretty obvious that 2 million $ wouldn't be enough, and still, saying from the get go that Sony would chip in the remaining tens of millions of dollars would've been nice. Though they should tick all the stretch goals as reached though.

 

[kuroshiki]

Read this carefully: the risk for consumers who back a Kickstarted game is exactly the same as one Kickstarted with help from a publisher. You pledge money and hope the game is made. Stop being delusional! If Shenmue is cancelled despite Sony's help, the people who pledged money will get nothing just the same as if Sony were never involved. And since Yu owns the rights to make the game, he presumably could do another Kickstarter and ask for enough money to finish the game.

Serious question here, do you own any Sony consoles?

at this point I hope he owns pc. lol

 

[Wolves Evolve]

If I worked at Sony I would demand exactly this too. Maybe get Adam to introduce it differently but yeah. It sucks but it isn't shady. It's way less shady than normal console deals, surely.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Gotta love some of the responses. Do people not realize that NOBODY touched this IP for the last FOURTEEN years? I wonder fucking why. Sony will probably lose money on this shit lol.

 

[danthefan]

Well I backed it anyway.

The interesting thing for me is that Sony go and supplement the Kickstarter campaign with more cash, but the people who really want the game have paid for it already through the campaign, so they have to go now and reach people who may not be hugely interested in the game to make their money back. Like they prove demand, but there's not going to be much more money coming from that group of people. There's still a risk here for Sony for sure.

 

[Haint]

Good guy Phil would be harrowed as a genius if it was the other way around buy most negatives in here.

And the the negatives would probability be bitter fans of the other console. So in essence, nothing would change with this thread. I wager the KS would have taken much longer though.

Nah MS blow back would be WAY WAY worse. Most people are aware Sony have recently faced financial hardships, losings billions upon billions of dollars for several years now and had their credit downgraded to junk status. MS on the other hand has the cash to fund a Quadruple-A GTA budgeted Shenmue 1000 times over. MS have literally spent as much on disposable CG E3 reveal trailers the last 2 years alone to fund what Sony/Yu have agreed to.

 

[wachie]

At the very least it's deliberate misdirection, which I don't see as very distinct from what we're talking about.

The misdirection is only because you (& select few) WANT to interpret things to fit your narrative.

Anyway, good luck with that.