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[Servbot24]

Well the game hinted pretty strongly that snake was going to die no matter what he did. Just because Kojima didn't make him blast himself in front of everybody doesn't mean he isn't dead. People have a weird fascination for having to see everything these days.

People say they want more advanced story-telling in games, but they're not actually ready for it.

 

[SomTervo]

I think that was really a WTF moment in the trailer . Its a pity that those that didn't play Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes will not experience any shock value.

Yeah, haha. To most folk it'll just be "oh there's a new character".

I haven't actually finished PW (like 2/3rds of the way through) and didn't enjoy it too much either, but it's a decent game, and Paz is a decent character.

 

[kenjigreat]

Yeah, haha. To most folk it'll just be "oh there's a new character".

I haven't actually finished PW (like 2/3rds of the way through) and didn't enjoy it too much either, but it's a decent game, and Paz is a decent character.

Peace Walker is great . MGS V is supposedly much more improved version of Peace Walker.

Honestly I am amazed at the scope of the game.

You have to admit for a PSP game Peace Walker was huge and probably gives more game bang for buck than most 60$ retail game releases today.

 

[semiconscious]

People say they want more advanced story-telling in games, but they're not actually ready for it.

& done ...

 

[MiamiWesker]

Can we get a side by side shot of Paz and this girl in the trailer cause I never once thought that was Paz until I read gaf. And gaf believes the most insane shit... So not sure to trust us.

 

[kenjigreat]

Can we get a side by side shot of Paz and this girl in the trailer cause I never once thought that was Paz until I read gaf. And gaf believes the most insane shit... So not sure to trust us.

Who else could it be?

 

[SomTervo]

Well the game hinted pretty strongly that snake was going to die no matter what he did. Just because Kojima didn't make him blast himself in front of everybody doesn't mean he isn't dead. People have a weird fascination for having to see everything these days.

?

It's not a weird fascination... I've enjoyed plenty of movies, games and books that don't show the viewer anything.

The problem here is that, because Kojima is so twisty and convoluted, not killing Snake at the end of 4 suggested he'd come back for more. It was just unnecessary. I didn't want to see him die, I wanted to see definite, final closure for his story. Sometimes that's the right way to tell a story. Not always, but sometimes. Leaving it open like that just made the story feel like it might waffle on for another 20 hour cutscene-game in a few years time. It was already a waffley story and he didn't just end it when he should have.

Luckily, now, we know he won't be back, at least not with Kojima's approach. But back then when I first saw the ending it almost killed all enthusiasm in me for another game.

Peace Walker is great . MGS V is supposedly much more improved version of Peace Walker.

Honestly I am amazed at the scope of the game.

You have to admit for a PSP game Peace Walker was huge and probably gives more game bang for buck than most 60$ retail game releases today.

Peace Walker is really good. But I'd never call it great on the same league as MGS1, 2 or 3. Never. It is good, though, and of course Phantom Pain has 1:1 the same game structure. However, the gameplay in Phantom Pain being bigger, deeper and more dynamic than any other MGS game, while retaining this complex strategic structure, puts it above anything PW could ever have been.

 

[kenjigreat]

?

It's not a weird fascination... I've enjoyed plenty of movies, games and books that don't show the viewer anything.

The problem here is that, because Kojima is so twisty and convoluted, not killing Snake at the end of 4 suggested he'd come back for more. It was just unnecessary. I didn't want to see him die, I wanted to see definite, final closure for his story. Sometimes that's the right way to tell a story. Not always, but sometimes. Leaving it open like that just made the story feel like it might waffle on for another 20 hour cutscene-game in a few years time. It was already a waffley story and he didn't just end it when he should have.

Luckily, now, we know he won't be back, at least not with Kojima's approach. But back then when I first saw the ending it almost killed all enthusiasm in me for another game.

Not as bad as Mass Effect 3 . I almost threw my disc out the window.

 

[njean777]

?

It's not a weird fascination... I've enjoyed plenty of movies, games and books that don't show the viewer anything.

The problem here is that, because Kojima is so twisty and convoluted, not killing Snake at the end of 4 suggested he'd come back for more. It was just unnecessary. I didn't want to see him die, I wanted to see definite, final closure for his story. Sometimes that's the right way to tell a story. Not always, but sometimes. Leaving it open like that just made the story feel like it might waffle on for another 20 hour cutscene-game in a few years time. It was already a waffley story and he didn't just end it when he should have.

Luckily, now, we know he won't be back, at least not with Kojima's approach. But back then when I first saw the ending it almost killed all enthusiasm in me for another game.

I saw it as a appropriate ending. Snake went out peacefully, something that snake up till that point knew nothing about. He was so tired from everything and finally at the end of his life got to experience peace. Also the final closure came from Big Boss, now you can be unhappy with that, but that is what Kojima did. I liked 4 and thought it ended pretty well.

 

[akidnamededdy]

What the hell was the point in him not dying?

For god's sake, the entirety of MGS4 just reeks of creative misdirection and poor decision making. I love Kojima and I believe he's immensely talented, but it's like he didn't want to commit to any one style, or genre, or storyline, so he just fudged the whole experience.

TPP is shaping up much better from what we already know re game structure, game design and story.

To be fair I think I read that Kojima originally wanted Snake (and Otacon even) to die at the end but other staff told him it was too depressing and he changed it.

MGS4 got problems though for sure. I like to think it's because Kojima was sick of people asking questions about MGS2 so he answered them al in the most ridiculous way possible, like "ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?"

 

[MiamiWesker]

Who else could it be?

Any woman on the planet? Why does everyone have to be from the past.

 

[Holdfing]

Can we get a side by side shot of Paz and this girl in the trailer cause I never once thought that was Paz until I read gaf. And gaf believes the most insane shit... So not sure to trust us.

In PW she is kinda anime style. But the hair is the same.
In GZ her hair was shaved and her face is badly bruised, I'm not sure a side by side would work too well.
I'd try to do one if I wasn't on my Vita tho.

 

[Dick Justice]

Well the game hinted pretty strongly that snake was going to die no matter what he did. Just because Kojima didn't make him blast himself in front of everybody doesn't mean he isn't dead. People have a weird fascination for having to see everything these days.

People have a fascination for seeing stories follow up on their themes and not pulling nonsensical twists out of their asses to skirt around it. The original ending where Snake and Otacon would be executed as war criminals would've fit a lot better.

 

[kenjigreat]

To be fair I think I read that Kojima originally wanted Snake (and Otacon even) to die at the end but other staff told him it was too depressing and he changed it.

MGS4 got problems though for sure. I like to think it's because Kojima was sick of people asking questions about MGS2 so he answered them al in the most ridiculous way possible, like "ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?"

The end of MGS V should be Hideo Kojima(He's in the game) looking in the Camera and saying Did you Rike it ?

Any woman on the planet? Why does everyone have to be from the past.

You do realise they showed stomach stitching right? Which is very similar to the ones on Paz in Ground Zeroes.

I'm still waiting for Eva to show up.

 

[njean777]

People have a fascination for seeing stories follow up on their themes and not pulling nonsensical twists out of their asses to skirt around it. The original ending where Snake and Otacon would be executed as war criminals would've fit a lot better.

Cannot tell an author what to do. You are not writing the themes nor the story. The theme of MGS 4 imo is that snake was tired, what better way to end it then him finally getting a peaceful death?

Sure Kojima could have killed them, but he decided to just have snake die peacefully, which in the end makes sense. Snake had seen war his whole life, being able to die peacefully is what should have happened.

 

[Blader]

People have a fascination for seeing stories follow up on their themes and not pulling nonsensical twists out of their asses to skirt around it. The original ending where Snake and Otacon would be executed as war criminals would've fit a lot better.

Believe it or not, Snake not killing himself and living out what was left of his life peacefully does follow through on MGS4's theme of breaking old cycles.

 

[Ishida]

I remember playing MGS 4 and once the Submarine sparring was over . I thought the game was over . Boy was I wrong . 90mins of Cutscene left.

90 of one of the best cutscenes in video game history. MGS4's ending was magnificent. :3

 

[kenjigreat]

Believe it or not, Snake not killing himself and living out what was left of his life peacefully does follow through on MGS4's theme of breaking old cycles.

Honestly I think the biggest question everyone keeps forgetting is Where is Big Boss's Horn and facial scars in MGS 4?

90 of one of the best cutscenes in video game history. MGS4's ending was magnificent. :3

I thought it was pretty good but a lot of people here disagree.

 

[Ishida]

Honestly I think the biggest question everyone keeps forgetting is Where is Big Boss's Horn and facial scars in MGS 4?




I thought it was pretty good but a lot of people here disagree.

Not really a lot. It's just a handful of people.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Not really a lot. It's just a handful of people.

It's gotta be more than a handful...

 

[Blader]

Honestly I think the biggest question everyone keeps forgetting is Where is Big Boss's Horn and facial scars in MGS 4?

His body is mostly new (so to speak) in MGS4 anyway though, isn't it? He was already cyborged in MG2 iirc, and in 4 it's revealed that Naomi did some Frankenstein science to harvest parts from Liquid and Solidus' bodies to reconstruct BB.

 

[Crypt]

Honestly I think the biggest question everyone keeps forgetting is Where is Big Boss's Horn and facial scars in MGS 4?
.

Spoiler

The guy was rebuilt from clone parts. Even if the face is his old one, you don't think they can remove some scar blemishes after stitching back together a guy who was burned to "death"?

 

[Kinyou]

Any woman on the planet? Why does everyone have to be from the past.

A moment before that they show a stomach which has the same stitching as Paz had. Even if it turns out not be Paz, I think the association is very deliberate.

 

[Dick Justice]

Cannot tell an author what to do. You are not writing the themes nor the story. The theme of MGS 4 imo is that snake was tired, what better way to end it then him finally getting a peaceful death?

Sure Kojima could have killed them, but he decided to just have snake die peacefully, which in the end makes sense. Snake had seen war his whole life, being able to die peacefully is what should have happened.

Funny, his staff members told him what to do, causing him to change the ending.

 

[Screaming Meat]

They don't shed their cultural identity but they still assimilate. Which is different from multiculturalism, where there is a lack of assimilation.

I think our definitions are out of whack. Plus, there is perhaps some nuance lost in the trailer's translation from Japanese. Can you tell me what you mean by "assimilated"?

If you mean in terms of naturalisation, even naturalised Americans of different ethnic groups tellingly identify as both their ethnic descripter and as American (African-American, Chinese-American etc.).

If you mean in terms of cultural assimilation, America is a country of immigrants whose cultures have had a profound impact on predominant American Culture (for example, the US's most famous musical exports, Blues and Jazz, have origins in it's African-American roots).

If you mean linguistic assimilation, then English is the most bastardised language in the world, made up of Latin, German, French and all sorts of other stuff.

These sound more like a kind of cultural symbiosis (AKA multiculturalism) to me, but I'm no anthropologist, so my definition might be way off

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Not really a lot. It's just a handful of people.

Not this again

 

[kenjigreat]

A moment before that they show a stomach which has the same stitching as Paz had. Even if it turns out not be Paz, I think the association is very deliberate.

Do this think Paz is still attractive with Long hair and stitches on her stomach?

Ok more serious question, the clone theory seems quite support , I only say this because Paz looks like she just woke up after a long time. Why else would someone wave their hands in front of her. Coma or Dream sequence seems surreal?

But it also doesn't make sense to have a clone with the body of a 20+ year old in 9 years. Unless shes 14. LOL.

Then again accelerated aging and Nanomachines.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

I can't stop watching this trailer.

It's the first thing I do when I wake up and the last thing when I go to sleep.

 

[SomTervo]

I saw it as a appropriate ending. Snake went out peacefully, something that snake up till that point knew nothing about. He was so tired from everything and finally at the end of his life got to experience peace. Also the final closure came from Big Boss, now you can be unhappy with that, but that is what Kojima did. I liked 4 and thought it ended pretty well.

I suppose that's a decent reading – and as someone else pointed out, it thematically fits with the concept that MGS4 is all about breaking/closing cycles.

Not as bad as Mass Effect 3 . I almost threw my disc out the window.

Hah. I'm actually only half way through ME3. I stopped because the noise about the ending killed my momentum and I was enjoying it a lot. Sounds like nothing will compare to that, and Kojima would struggle to do so.

To be fair I think I read that Kojima originally wanted Snake (and Otacon even) to die at the end but other staff told him it was too depressing and he changed it.

MGS4 got problems though for sure. I like to think it's because Kojima was sick of people asking questions about MGS2 so he answered them al in the most ridiculous way possible, like "ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?"

I'm glad Otacon didn't die. That would have been depressing. It would have been nice closure for Snake though. What a clusterfuck of a life.

Cannot tell an author what to do. You are not writing the themes nor the story. The theme of MGS 4 imo is that snake was tired, what better way to end it then him finally getting a peaceful death?

Sure Kojima could have killed them, but he decided to just have snake die peacefully, which in the end makes sense. Snake had seen war his whole life, being able to die peacefully is what should have happened.

What the other guy said. Works of fiction are inherently flexible – and when there's high financial or political stakes involved, an author absolutely can be told what to do.

 

[bud]

Well the game hinted pretty strongly that snake was going to die no matter what he did. Just because Kojima didn't make him blast himself in front of everybody doesn't mean he isn't dead. People have a weird fascination for having to see everything these days.

kojima actually wanted to kill him off, but decided against it after being talked out of it by his team.

 

[kenjigreat]

I can't stop watching this trailer.

It's the first thing I do when I wake up and the last thing when I go to sleep.

I watched it one and a half times , I barely vaguely remember stuff.

I only do this so I can get surprised . The trailer is information overload.

I don't want to remember too much when I actually play the game.

I am absolutely in LOVE with the Music . I listen to trailer for the music .

 

[Mookie1515]

I can't stop watching this trailer.

It's the first thing I do when I wake up and the last thing when I go to sleep.

You and me both, Sn4ke.

 

[Dick Justice]

Not this again

Don't bother lol.

 

[Blader]

I watched it one and a half times , I barely vaguely remember stuff.

I only do this so I can get surprised . The trailer is information overload.

I don't want to remember too much when I actually play the game.

I am absolutely in LOVE with the Music . I listen to trailer for the music .

New Order is a pretty uneven band, but the album that the song is pulled from (Low-Life) is probably their best altogether record.

 

[Squalor]

That New Order song is absolutely beautiful backing this trailer.

 

[Kaizer]

Been looking for this image for years since I first saw it, it's still funny as hell & perfectly sums up that extended coda to MGS4.

 

[Squalor]

New Order is a pretty uneven band, but the album that the song is pulled from (Low-Life) is probably their best altogether record.

New Order was very stable. They didn't release a bad album until the 2000s.

Twenty years of good to great albums is no small feat.

 

[njean777]

Funny, his staff members told him what to do, causing him to change the ending.

That is fine they told him, doesn't mean he had to do it.

 

[Gun Animal]

NANOMACHINES SON.

Always wanted to use that.

Cloning seems to be the most fan favorite theory so far.

Possibly it could be

Spoiler

clones/sisters/other 'paz' agents who all look the same

Other than that, who knows.

Look forward to it immensely!

And no. She could be part of Les Enfants Terribles, perhaps a pilot test for the cloning tech. Or she could just be a hallucination, but it looks like others can see her, too. Or it might not be Paz.



In truth, I still liked it, too. Especially the gameplay over the longer Acts 1 and 2. What a masterpiece

Spoiler

if we only look at gameplay

I'd put my money on cloning.

Edit: aww shit what if it's a Rei situation from NGE?

I'd like it to be cloning, it would explain Skullface's obsession with her in GZ. But if that's what it is, how do you explain The mutilated Paz with the same 'V' scar, in the same scene as Paz up and moving around?

Considering all the Zombies walking around, is it possible we're dealing with actual undead? What if Paz was reanimated? It's stupid and doesn't make sense, but neither does cloning upon scrutiny.

Another theory: Venom and Ocelot are sharing a peyote dream under Code Talker's guidance, explaining how Ocelot and Venom could BOTH be hallucinating the same thing.

 

[kenjigreat]

That is fine they told him, doesn't mean he had to do it.

Why are people still mad about an ending after 7 years and its not even nearly as bad as Mass Effect 3?

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

kojima actually wanted to kill him off, but decided against it after being talked out of it by his team.

The version I know is that Kojima wanted him and Otacon to turn themselves in to the police. Any source on that?

 

[Dick Justice]

Why are people still mad about an ending after 7 years and its not even nearly as bad as Mass Effect 3?

Why do you keep bringing up Mass Effect 3? We're not talking about Mass Effect 3.

 

[SomTervo]

I'd like it to be cloning, it would explain Skullface's obsession with her in GZ. But if that's what it is, how do you explain The mutilated Paz with the same 'V' scar, in the same scene as Paz up and moving around?

Considering all the Zombies walking around, is it possible we're dealing with actual undead? What if Paz was reanimated? It's stupid and doesn't make sense, but neither does cloning upon scrutiny.

Shit.

This just made me realise. Wasn't Grey Fox reanimated? Wasn't he a dead guy brought back to life by technology?

What if The Phantom Pain will fill in the huge narrative mystery surrounding the Cyborg Ninja and how he came to be? What if the Skulls etc are the first pilots of this system?

Edit: I also think it's unlikely Paz is actually undead. She has a normal complexion and hair, unlike the other 'zombie' soldiers.

The version I know is that Kojima wanted him and Otacon to turn themselves in to the police. Any source on that?

That would have been really interesting.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

You and me both, Sn4ke.

 

[kenjigreat]

Why do you keep bringing up Mass Effect 3? We're not talking about Mass Effect 3.

I'm just demonstrating how ridiculous it is to get angry at a games ending. It was the perfect example.

The most outraged fanbase couldn't change the ending.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

 

[ichtyander]

Do this think Paz is still attractive with Long hair and stitches on her stomach?

Ok more serious question, the clone theory seems quite support , I only say this because Paz looks like she just woke up after a long time. Why else would someone wave their hands in front of her. Coma or Dream sequence seems surreal?

But it also doesn't make sense to have a clone with the body of a 20+ year old in 9 years. Unless shes 14. LOL.

Then again accelerated aging and Nanomachines.

Yeah, Solidus looked a lot older than his siblings. He was created in '72, dispatched to the Liberian civil war in the late 80's (so he was about 16-17 yet looked older) and became the US president in the early 2000s (so he was about 30 yet looked almost double that age from the Shinkawa art).

Shit.

This just made me realise. Wasn't Grey Fox reanimated? Wasn't he a dead guy brought back to life by technology?

What if The Phantom Pain will fill in the huge narrative mystery surrounding the Cyborg Ninja and how he came to be? What if the Skulls etc are the first pilots of this system?

Edit: I also think it's unlikely Paz is actually undead. She has a normal complexion and hair, unlike the other 'zombie' soldiers.


That would have been really interesting.

Never even occurred to me but yeah, those Skulls also apparently called the Parasite Unit really do look like an early iteration of cyborg ninjas. Even their twitching is reminiscent of Gray Fox's.

 

[Marty-esque]

I think our definitions are out of whack. Plus, there is perhaps some nuance lost in the trailer's translation from Japanese. Can you tell me what you mean by "assimilated"?

If you mean in terms of naturalisation, even naturalised Americans of different ethnic groups tellingly identify as both their ethnic descripter and as American (African-American, Chinese-American etc.).

If you mean in terms of cultural assimilation, America is a country of immigrants whose cultures have had a profound impact on predominant American Culture (for example, the US's most famous musical exports, Blues and Jazz, have origins in it's African-American roots).

If you mean linguistic assimilation, then English is the most bastardised language in the world, made up of Latin, German, French and all sorts of other stuff.

These sound more like a kind of cultural symbiosis (AKA multiculturalism) to me, but I'm no anthropologist, so my definition might be way off

You're post is spot on. I agree with all your points. America is a melting pot with many races and cultures. But mostly, people adopt the values of the country and consider themselves American. Many, as you mentioned, retain there cultural identity. When I brought up multiculturalism, I'm referring to immigration where people do not at all participate and adopt the values and traditions of the country they migrated to.

You also make a good point about the translation. I hadn't thought about that.

 

[kenjigreat]

Does anyone actually wish they could play the game in Japanese with English Subtitles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfYJyltB4sQ

The Trailer for the Japanese Version sounds pretty sick.

 

[Gun Animal]

That would have been really interesting.

The story goes the MGS4 was going to be really nihilistic and depressing, but the rest of KojiPro pressured him into making it more heartwarming and uplifting. We all would have cried either way, but the tears we got were happy tears instead of "this is the most horrible thing I've ever seen" tears. It seems like we'll be getting those with MGSV.

So my impression of Skullface from this trailer is that he's basically Ocelot 2.0, working for Zero/the Patriots but secretly aligning himself with Big Boss and eventually mounting his own insurrection. That explains why he starts as an enemy and becomes an ally. Sound about right?