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[Ray Wonder]

-In the above gif you can clearly see her forcing her way in between him and the guy in the glasses.

-Guy in the hat says something to the woman in front of him and she makes room to the left of the aggressor, which she doesn't seem to like (you can see her twist her head to say something to him, all the while trying to force him out with her body).

-She turns and places her left forearm on his chest with her right hand cocked backed in a punching motion.

-He grabs her wrist and pushes her back into glasses guy.

-She kicks him then throws a punch (out of view, you can see someone else clawing at hat guy).

-He responds in kind (not saying I agree with this).

It's clear that she is the aggressor here.

It's so damn clear to me. I don't see how people are picking her side.

 

[MrPressStart]

First... you have to believe alcohol was a factor....

Saying that, he was wrong for handling it the way he did. He has way more at stake, and I am sure waiting a xtram minute to get a beer is not that bad.

 

[Big Baybee]

How can anyone watch this and defend anything that woman does?

 

[suberzat]

I have.

Lots of people have been in "crowded bars." Lots. That's why they're "crowded." You're not a special snowflake who has a monopoly on "crowded bar" etiquette. The correct way to order a drink in a "crowded bar" is to go to where the bartender is taking drink orders, not wedging in between occupied bar stools. If that's too difficult, yell your order from behind the people on the stools and reach through to pay/take your drink. There's no reason to belly up to the bar to order a drink.

Watch the video again. He was pushing and rubbing on her from behind. Weird guys do that to women in "crowded bars." Then when she turns to see what's going on, he pushed her aside with his right forearm. That would have been a damn fine time for him to apologize.

If there had been a 6' 6" 275 pound FSU defensive end sitting at the bar, I suspect he might have been a little more careful about pushing and rubbing up against the defensive end. And I guarantee he would not have tried to push the defensive end aside with his forearm. He most likely would have politely apologized and moved away. But he was dealing with a woman, so he had no fear.

That's the problem with some guys. They don't know how to just walk away when they have a physical advantage. This guy wanted to "win" the confrontation.

I'm amused by the people who think this is an equal rights situation. It's not. This little coward would have walked away with his tail between his legs if the size differential went against him. He would not have rubbed up against a larger man. He would not have pushed a larger man to the side. The only reason this happened was because a woman was involved and he felt too comfortable with any possible escalation.

 

[gai_shain]

That chick is a dumpy clothes rag. But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child. Is it OK to hit children if they hit you first?

Dude was the starting quarterback on a scholarship. He has way more responsibility to not get in trouble than some random guy in a bar.

That said he's owned up to it well and I hope he gets a second chance somewhere.

1 girl = 1 child = 1 70year old person?

 

[Shuggananas]

But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child.

yo are you serious though ? lmao

 

[dave is ok]

Also, bullshit. Boys get told to stand up for themselves and fight back against bullies and "don't hit girls" (the implication that hitting boys is okay) and get called pussies for backing down.

Anectdotal: That's not how I was raised.

 

[THRILLH0]

Because they are bullshit.

You're coming across as someone who is trying their damnedest to absolve her of any responsibility and paint her as some meek little girl who can't ever hope to defend herself going up against a monstrous athlete.

I'd even go so far as to say it paints a very interesting picture of how you view women, but I won't "go there"...

Again you're making the mistake of confusing analogy for direct comparison. If you think I'm absolving the woman of responsibility then your comprehension is poor.

I've stated that on balance a man is likely to cause more significant damage in a male/female physical altercation. Its really that simple. Not always, but as a generalisation. Feel free to "go there" If you think that speaks to how I view women.

 

[royalan]

That chick is a dumpy clothes rag. But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child. Is it OK to hit children if they hit you first?

Wow...

 

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

That chick is a dumpy clothes rag. But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child. Is it OK to hit children if they hit you first?

How weak do you guys really think women are? As much of a threat as a child? Holy shit.

 

[Icewear Vezzo]

That chick is a dumpy clothes rag. But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child. Is it OK to hit children if they hit you first?

Dude was the starting quarterback on a scholarship. He has way more responsibility to not get in trouble than some random guy in a bar.

That said he's owned up to it well and I hope he gets a second chance somewhere.

Dumbest thing I've read in awhile. A lot of women are in shape and know how to defend themselves and are stronger than children on average. You don't even make sense. Tell that to this guy.
https://youtu.be/r59Kj44PRsU

 

[Nicktals]

Just switch the situation. If it had been the guy trying to keep her from getting to the bar, and had been the guy who raised his fist.

The woman attempts to restrain his raised fist. The man takes an impotent punch at her, barely grazing. She then lands a square punch on him, and walks away.


I have a feeling the reactions would be incredibly different. In my opinion he would be laughed at, and implied to be less of a man, and she would be regarded as a strong female role model.

 

[AkuMifune]

Women are children now?

Her punch carried as much force as a 3-year olds. That was like a threatening breeze.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I have.

Lots of people have been in "crowded bars." Lots. That's why they're "crowded." You're not a special snowflake who has a monopoly on "crowded bar" etiquette. The correct way to order a drink in a "crowded bar" is to go to where the bartender is taking drink orders, not wedging in between occupied bar stools. If that's too difficult, yell your order from behind the people on the stools and reach through to pay/take your drink. There's no reason to belly up to the bar to order a drink.

Watch the video again. He was pushing and rubbing on her from behind. Weird guys do that to women in "crowded bars." Then when she turns to see what's going on, he pushed her aside with his right forearm. That would have been a damn fine time for him to apologize.

If there had been a 6' 6" 275 pound FSU defensive end sitting at the bar, I suspect he might have been a little more careful about pushing and rubbing up against the defensive end. And I guarantee he would not have tried to push the defensive end aside with his forearm. He most likely would have politely apologized and moved away. But he was dealing with a woman, so he had no fear.

That's the problem with some guys. They don't know how to just walk away when they have a physical advantage. This guy wanted to "win" the confrontation.

I'm amused by the people who think this is an equal rights situation. It's not. This little coward would have walked away with his tail between his legs if the size differential went against him. He would not have rubbed up against a larger man. He would not have pushed a larger man to the side. The only reason this happened was because a woman was involved and he felt too comfortable with any possible escalation.

What. The fuck. Am I. Reading.

 

[marrec]

Anectdotal: That's not how I was raised.

It's not how I was raised either, however my friends all encouraged me to get into fights and I did because that's what's expected of boys, especially in rural white areas.

I stopped once I realized that I was a foot taller than everyone I was getting into it with and regardless of their antagonizing I could always walk away, but that's beside the point.

 

[Trey]

Alcohol and immaturity are quite the mix. Just so happens the kid plays ball.

The young lady probably didn't go out that evening expecting to catch that fist to the face. Her time was just up. Probably gonna be at the very same bar next week without a care in the world.

From FSU's position, it's an easy decision to cut the kid loose. Nearly impossible to defend the kid in that situation, and he's only a freshman. Feel bad for the rest of the team though. That curfew and alcohol ban Jim Fisher is about to impose on them is going to be damn near medieval.

 

[Meier]

Regardless of whether she was the instigator, there's too much heat on the QB position at FSU right now so I knew immediately he'd be dismissed when this came out, regardless of whether or not he was at fault.I don't think he was kicked out of school or anything so he'll probably stay on through the summer and then look to transfer to another school and lay low for a year or two before getting another chance at playing. And I think that's fair.

 

[marrec]

Her punch carried as much force as a 3-year olds. That was like a threatening breeze.

Don't make this about her, she was drunk and off balance, I've hit other people that hard when drunk cause you're not exactly on your game at that point.

You compared the physical strength of a grown woman to that of a child. That's insulting as hell.

 

[AkuMifune]

Oh I didn't realize the kids were still up.

Of course if you're actually threatened hit back. But not in the case of chunky bar girl vs. starting quarterback. Some of you just thirsty to be violent.

Yes I compared her punch to a child's, while some of you are condoning violence against women. And I'm the insulting one. Lol

 

[dave is ok]

You compared the physical strength of a grown woman to that of a child. That's insulting as hell.

Somewhere, HolyBaikai is crying.

 

[Lynn616]

I've read a few pages of this thread and this accusatory shaming that you and others keep trying to pull is entirely disingenuous. It looks pretty clear cut in the camera:

1. QB tries to get to bar, but is blocked by woman. He tries to nudge in a bit which prompts woman to turn around.

2. They have words and woman raises fist threatening possible violence. QB grabs her hand to prevent her from possibly hitting him. There is some pushing going on.

3. Woman attempts to hit QB and in response to getting assaulted, QB punches woman.

Regardless of how you feel about a man hitting a woman etc., when this inevitably goes to court, it's going to be put as basically as this. Looks open and shut to me. Just have to see what comes of it.

Watched the video a few times now and you may be right. It will come down to her raising her fist and if the court finds that a reasonable threat.

 

[KHarvey16]

I feel like many people are confusing what they believe someone deserves and what's appropriate when defending one's self. The concept of "deserve" is not a component of self defense.

Much of the reasoning in this thread is atrocious.

 

[suberzat]

Dude just has to be trolling right guys?

 

[Wynnebeck]

It's so damn clear to me. I don't see how people are picking her side.

It's almost a sense of reverse sexism. It's ingrained in our society that women are delicate flowers that shouldn't ever be harmed or put into uncomfortable positions because their fragile natures and bodies will so easily break. This in turn causes males to automatically view women as the automatic victim in any altercation unless it is validly clear that the woman was the aggressor in the conflict. Even in this thread in the face of clear evidence, you have people swearing up and down that it's the QB who came in like raging bull and hurt the poor innocent woman with his bravado and "tough guy" act, when in reality, we have a guy trying to get to the bar, a woman blocking him and threatening to punch him, and an altercation which led to the male getting arrested and why? Because the "delicate flower" got hit by the male despite the camera showing she was the aggressor throughout. I can only hope that in the future that concepts and preconceived notions about how men and women are supposed to interact with each other can give way to discourse about the culture of subverting and not empowering women by putting them in this cultural situation in the first place.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Oh I didn't realize the kids were still up.

Of course if you're actually threatened hit back. But not on the case of chunky bar girl vs. starting quarterback. Some of you just thirsty to be violent.

So if she hits him in the eye and blinds him with a ring she's wearing, he shouldn't fight back?

The athletic condition of who's threatening him doesn't matter at all, that's a terrible argument. I don't care if it's a dude in a wheelchair, that doesn't give you any right to physically assault someone. She's clearly in the wrong here.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child.

Ayy lmao

Tell that to Hope Solo's husband, he got fucked up.

 

[marrec]

Yes I compared her punch to a child's, while some of you are condoning violence against women. And I'm the insulting one. Lol

No, you said this:

But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child. Is it OK to hit children if they hit you first?

So you want to amend that as "this woman's singular punch was not very hard"? Or do you stand by your first statement?

Listen, women aren't delicate flowers who need to be handled with care. That girl could have easily broken that guys nose had she got a solid hit on him.

 

[bchamba]

What. The fuck. Am I. Reading.

Originally Posted by Fourth Stooge

 

[Euphoria14]

That chick is a dumpy clothes rag. But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child. Is it OK to hit children if they hit you first?

Dude was the starting quarterback on a scholarship. He has way more responsibility to not get in trouble than some random guy in a bar.

That said he's owned up to it well and I hope he gets a second chance somewhere.

Hit women is wrong, but view them as no stronger than a child is taking the high road.

This thread is wonderful.


Edit - Yes, if your child strikes you, you bet your ass you hit them back, unless you want your children walking all over you.

 

[Meier]

It's almost like he forced himself into her.

I know it's tough for both of us to not be biased here, but it's pretty clear she is the instigator. De'Andre excuses himself to the other girl who is in front of the open spot at the bar and she moves aside. I have no clue if anything happened between the two of them prior to this footage so there may have been something that set this all off.. but in what we can see here, she instigated, he attempted to de-escalate and then instinctively reacted after she threw a punch.

If this wasn't in a Post-Jameis world, I think it might have blown over (hard to say though, Ray Rice's thing as well probably made this untenable).. but as it stands, there are too many people who will form an opinion immediately so FSU had no realistic choice in this matter.

 

[AkuMifune]

So you want to amend that as "this woman's singular punch was not very hard"? Or do you stand by your first statement?

I'll amend if that quiets the crowd. I meant her punch.

And IN THIS CASE he had everything to lose, and he did. He should have just walked away.

 

[Vagabundo]

I feel like many people are confusing what they believe someone deserves and what's appropriate when defending one's self. The concept of "deserve" is not a component of self defense.

Much of the reasoning in this thread is atrocious.

Exactly. He used as much force as was necessary to end the fight without serious damage to anyone.

Its not pretty to see a woman hit in the face but she had minor injuries in the end.

 

[Trey]

It's almost a sense of reverse sexism. It's ingrained in our society that women are delicate flowers that shouldn't ever be harmed or put into uncomfortable positions because their fragile natures and bodies will so easily break. This in turn causes males to automatically view women as the automatic victim in any altercation unless it is validly clear that the woman was the aggressor in the conflict. Even in this thread in the face of clear evidence, you have people swearing up and down that it's the QB who came in like raging bull and hurt the poor innocent woman with his bravado and "tough guy" act, when in reality, we have a guy trying to get to the bar, a woman blocking him and threatening to punch him, and an altercation which led to the male getting arrested and why? Because the "delicate flower" got hit by the male despite the camera showing she was the aggressor throughout. I can only hope that in the future that concepts and preconceived notions about how men and women are supposed to interact with each other can give way to discourse about the culture of subverting and not empowering women by putting them in this cultural situation in the first place.

It's not reverse sexism. It's just sexism, wynnebeck.

 

[Shuggananas]

I'll amend if that quiets the crowd. I meant her punch.

You clearly didn't :

But you do not hit girls. Ever. Unless they have a knife or something. They are literally as much threat as a child.

Nice attempt at damage control though

 

[Nokagi]

Indeed he is tough for holding back swinging right away.


If it were me I would've decked that racist piece of shit immediately after she threw the first punch and went about my day. He showed great restraint by waiting so long to retaliate

And yes it's disgusting people defend women being able to freely hit men because they're smaller than them.

Cool story. Maybe you'll get to try this on someone someday since I can tell how badly you want to. Doesn't change my opinion however.

 

[genjiZERO]

How can anyone watch this and defend anything that woman does?

It's not defending her - it's criticising him for escalating.

 

[ThisGuy]

It's not how I was raised either, however my friends all encouraged me to get into fights and I did because that's what's expected of boys, especially in rural white areas.

I stopped once I realized that I was a foot taller than everyone I was getting into it with and regardless of their antagonizing I could always walk away, but that's beside the point.

This is how my family, friends, and myself was raised. You don't touch women. As for guys it's variations of "don't stop hitting him until you don't have to look over your shoulder" "go at him like you're trying to kill him" "get as mad as you can about everything in your life and take it out on him". And friends are no better in the moment with statements like "get him" "fuck him up" "kill that pussy ass" "we got you" "don't be a bitch"

Lol it kills me anyone could pretend this is not how it is for boys growing up.

I'm okay with this guy throwing a straight punch that wasn't even that bad. He clearly restrained himself.

It's not defending her - it's criticising him for escalating.

Right, white women are untouchable. Never mind she's racist and put her hands on him first. He didn't even go at her. He even tried to restrain her. Then he tossed a straight after she threw a punch and he walked away. Can't believe people are defending this racist attacker.

 

[Vagabundo]

It's not defending her - it's criticising him for escalating.

What you call escalation is actually called self-defence. Restraint someone who is threatening violence is valid self defence.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

It's not defending her - it's criticising him for escalating.

Restraining someone that is threatening violence is not an escalation. Hitting someone that has already hit you is not an escalation, either. She escalated the situation at every turn until she was stopped from doing so any further by a retaliatory strike.

 

[SlickShoes]

Or maybe she should have not started the altercation. I like that one better.

I have not hit a woman in my life and very likely never will, but I am a firm believer that if you are going to be all tough and try to hit someone don't go crying foul when the hit comes back at you.

It doesn't matter who started the altercation, in this case it was her, he could still have walked away and reported it if he felt he had been assaulted.

I haven't hit anyone since I was a teenager other than in contact sparring, I have been to plenty bars with plenty idiots in them and it's never a good idea to get physical with anyone regardless of gender/size.

 

[Big Baybee]

It's not defending her - it's criticising him for escalating.

How did he escalate? Who raised a fist? Is it really impossible for you to condemn both of their actions or something? If someone is about to hit me I'd probably grab them or push them rather than throw a punch of my own. That's what he did.

 

[Stormhammer]

You can see her shift her hip in front of him to try and block him. She even looks back at him before any of the physical stuff happens like she's saying something smart to him. I dunno, "don't start none, won't be none" seems to be the case for her, imo.

 

[Wynnebeck]

It's not reverse sexism. It's just sexism, wynnebeck.

Thanks. I got my phrasing mixed up. I was referring to sexism (like racism) that is supposed to be positive, but only confirms supposed biases and stereotypes.

 

[AkuMifune]

Nice attempt at damage control though

? No, I generally do not think women are a physical threat to men. But I'm a big guy. I need to remember this is not always the case. I've had crazed drunk women come at me before, one time I just grabbed one by the throat. It was warranted, but I still feel shitty about it.

 

[Garlador]

Some of these responses... and yet even Sean Connery would be telling this guy he's doing it wrong.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

It's so damn clear to me. I don't see how people are picking her side.

How can anyone watch this and defend anything that woman does?

Because she's a white woman, so she must obviously be innocent /s (well, somewhat /s; I'm definitely sure there are people who actually think that way, even in this thread)

But even with all that said, he still didn't have to hit her. As a man in a non-threatening position (would that punch of hers killed him? Nope. But his could've killed her if it were just slightly more direct), he had no reason to hit her. He could've handled her without a direct physical strike, plain and simple.

If I were in his shoes I'd either of just walked away or grabbed her fist, or just get security to bounce her out.

 

[Vagabundo]

It doesn't matter who started the altercation, in this case it was her, he could still have walked away and reported it if he felt he had been assaulted.

I haven't hit anyone since I was a teenager other than in contact sparring, I have been to plenty bars with plenty idiots in them and it's never a good idea to get physical with anyone regardless of gender/size.

It's very hard to say if he could have walked away without getting more kicks and punches thrown his way. We can't see the rest of the bar and who was in his way.

The close up also shows another person close by who was trying to physically restrain the guy. In some cases it is best to end it with a punch and then leave.

 

[entremet]

You're bigger and stronger and she's clearly not a threat--no weapons, bottles, etc.

Don't hit back. Dude cost himself millions of dollars most likely.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I prefaced it as a tangential rant, not about this guy.

Also, bullshit. Boys get told to stand up for themselves and fight back against bullies and "don't hit girls" (the implication that hitting boys is okay) and get called pussies for backing down.

People who raise like that are wrong for that, and people should be expected to rise above whatever society has drilled into their heads. Gender does not matter.

Either beat everyone's asses or don't beat any. If you open up a can of whup-ass, there's consequences, no matter who's ass gets a mudhole stomped in it.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Just because you are 150 doesn't give you carte blanche to beat on 220 lb people because you're weaker. He shouldn't have been charged to begin with, but I'm certain a competent lawyer can get him off.

Society however does factor in power levels between adults when one of the involved is a different gender. It shouldn't either, but I understand it.

Anecdote time: There's a girl I know that tries to play badass and constantly threatens dudes like she can beat them up. Feints punches to watch them flinch, always in public too. She does that shit to me and one time hit me with all her strength in my stomach and our friends are all like "Haha Alpha you got punked, you gonna let her do that to you? Haha you're a bitch". Throw out the fact that I wrestled in high school and practiced Jiu Jitsu after that, She is 5'2 130. I'm 6'1 190. She's in workout shape sure, but I'd flex her little ass in a heartbeat if I wanted to.

But I'd expect to lose my job, be arrested, and be a pariah in my community and forever labeled a woman-beater. Some people can be little shits and have nothing to lose. If you have something to lose, just take the L and keep it pushing.

He shouldn't have hit her, Why? Because our society depicts women as inferior and if you treat them equal to a man in that situation you will lose everything. It's simply not worth it.