Fighting Games Weekly | July 13-19 | Stream Monster Yearly: Evolution 2015

there were multiple reasons why people dropped it. Also I remember sanford saying it was super fun to play and we all know the only money sanford is seeing is from NLBC.

1) boring to watch
2) took a lot of time
3) TO didn't know how to run the game (hello 2v2 in EVO?)
4) immense hate from viewers

You can't deny that it being a boring game to watch heavily killed the game. People that think stream chat/viewers don't effect the lifespan of a game are mad tripping.
Re: boring to watch. I feel like fighting games need some kind of Perpetual Comeback mechanic to be hype on the screen:
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/slippery-slope-and-perpetual-comeback

Part 2 of hype is the game being able to move beyond our full understanding of the game.

Part 3 of hype is the game being able to continually surprise us through player choices.

Didn't Viscant or somebody write like an essay on this?
There was some kind of essay about how fighting games shouldn't be for stream monsters, and stream monsters shouldn't get to dictate a game's success. Something about competitors being the soul of the scene. Maybe Viscant?
 
Wait were there 5 exclusive characters in the Sony versions?

Capcom got in bed with sony early

the signs were there bruhhhhh

And they signed an exclusive deal with Sony to lock away 12 completed characters to the Vita for 6 months to promote the platform.

There's a reason why I'm still wary about Sony being as involved as they are with SFV. Can't wait for all the PS4-first exclusive character DLC zzzzzzz
 
Vanilla SFxT was trash. That is the one people knew.

Why SFxT is considered trash. Even though the patched version is a good game.

First impressions. Reason why we actually are in an one console scenario right now. Xbone and WiiU both had shitty launches.

As I said, the core gameplay system in vanilla had a lot of potential. I remember when I did pair play online with AAK, Degen, Kadey, and others here. The netcode was crap but it was still fun.

If everyone started judging games based on day 1 non-patched releases, a lot of games would be dead right now. But as I've repeated multiple times, SFXTK had additional factors going against it and that was the BS DLC policies regarding characters and gems that other fighting games didn't have to suffer through.
 
i'm really trying to enjoy the FGTV live pre-marvel stream but every time i turn it on its either cj showmasta, that awful ZMC player from NYC who hasn't improved in four years, or both at the same time.
 
And they signed an exclusive deal with Sony to lock away 12 completed characters to the Vita for 6 months to promote the platform.

There's a reason why I'm still wary about Sony being as involved as they are with SFV. Can't wait for all the PS4-first exclusive character DLC zzzzzzz
That was the reason? They intentionally hurt their game for the Vita?
 
It's weird...MKX had all sorts of infinites and glitches and busted nonsense...easily on par with vanilla SFxT. The online is still icky. PC version is still icky. It also had its fair share of questionable DLC shenanigans. 30 dollar DLC announced day 0 for 4 characters and some costumes (when SFxT got crucified for 20 dollars / 12 characters DLC). Yet, no one minds, apparently.

I don't know...if 30 dollar / 4 character DLC is the new "accepted" precedent, I'm starting to wonder if we inadvertently killed our hero...while embracing our nemesis...

this is ultimately my issue with the anti arcsys people. Why is it okay for sfxt mortal but BB/GG does it and they cry foul? doesnt make sense
 
So Mew2king was able to get into melee at evo (not smash 4) by paying the $160 that previous players from other games have payed before to get a spot that was previously a bye. M2k said his hands felt great when he had that amazing set against Mango on Saturday and then posted his hands hurt yesterday, but we later found out that was because he was playing friendlies against Mango for 7 hours. I look forward to some hype m2k matches.
 
That was the reason? They intentionally hurt their game for the Vita?

Yeah. They did the same with UMvC3; online replay viewer and hitbox viewer are exclusive to the Vita version. Capcom signed a bunch of stuff with Sony that promised exclusive features to the Vita ports of these games.

I like my Vita a lot, but I wouldn't wish this form of timed exclusive content on any fighting game fan for the sake of it. It was just awful, truly awful. How is a game supposed to be a pillar of your FGC when you sign deals like that?

Now that Sony's dropping the big bucks I wouldn't be surprised at all if PC was treated as the second, bastard child of SFV. Hell, we've already got an exclusive beta to PS4 users and the game isn't even close to release :(

this is ultimately my issue with the anti arcsys people. Why is it okay for sfxt mortal but BB/GG does it and they cry foul? doesnt make sense

You have to understand that people who complain about one thing a company does does not mean they endorse things other companies do.

That's flawed, completely derivative, logic with no base.
 
Who does M2K use in smash 4

He has a list of characters he can use in tourney, but his best right now are probably Mii Brawler and Mario. Others are Palutena, Charizard, and Diddy. Probably for the best he didn't enter smash 4, because out of personal experience I can say it really does mess up my melee game when trying to switch in between the two at a tourney.
 
All these auxiliary mechanics also seemed forced into the core game. Pandora literally had no purpose in vanilla. And gems were introduced like a month before release as a money grubbing scheme for Capcom. I really wish the game could be on the main map again because it really has an amazing core gameplay system but that's not happening.
 
A lot of games have Day 1 infinites. I think QisTopTier here discovered one with Viola in SCV. I'm sure Netherrealm games have a bunch of them until the company decides to do an ongoing session of patches. But those games don't have the atrocious DLC policies that SFXTK did.

You still didn't answer whether you even played SFXTK or not.
I've played SFxTK in multiple sessions pre- and post- large patch. It's fun in the same way any fighting game is fun to pick up and fiddle around but there is a laundry list of things I dislike about that game that did not change after playing it. Not my point though, I'm not concerned with the specific details about balancing or any of that because I think it's completely irrelevant to the discussion and I'm scratching my head at why it "[a year later] its a good game doe" footnotes every post.

I already made this point above but I guess I'll be more clear:

I don't understand using corporate meddling as the scapegoat. I'm seeing blame and quality from the product itself relinquished to generally poor decision making as opposed to specifically the decisions made for SFxTK. Man, Capcom sure had some ass decision making at that time, right? No shit, that's a baseline.

So what decisions or titles had more bearing than others? Shitty Marvel contract is shitty Marvel contract, but they had a release plan akin to SF4 and a contract that was in place years before SFxTK became a thing considering MvC3s long dev cycle (assumption: I highly doubt SFxTK's was longer, so working story here is that SFxTK is brought into the picture afterwards), so that's not too bad, right? Tsunami happens, which as far as I can tell which was not a decision made by Capcom. Okay now our post-launch support has gone to shit, but we have all this content here that we can monetize. But now we're also making SFxTK, hmm. We have two games that are not ready for a full release, one of which has a more flexible release schedule (assumption considering TKxSF seems like it can come out between now and the second coming of Jesus), and one of which we know does not (UMvC3; common knowledge). And there the decision was made to release SFxTK in the following year and push UMvC3 up. UMvC3 is released to significant fanfare still, but no longer receives extended post-launch support because of the fallout and contraction of development, and the team is dissolved. SFxTK receives even greater backlash with lukewarm general reception, however it receives significantly more post-launch support and people are singing it's praises a year plus later.

There is no single error, there are a string of them. But the biggest thing here that I can see is that both titles had their quality and Capcom's brand reputation compromised because the release of SFxTK was prioritized. Policies and some rather poorly thought out marketing and gameplay decisions are icing on the cake, and one may argue are even byproducts of the aforementioned decision. It's SFxTK's fault, because the most influential decision here was throwing UMvC3 to the wolves to release SFxTK in it's busted state. If there's a part of the story I'm missing here or one of these assumptions are off, feel free to correct me, but yeah, I think it's pretty understandable why SFxTK is seen as the problem child in all of this.
 
So Mew2king was able to get into melee at evo (not smash 4) by paying the $160 that previous players from other games have payed before to get a spot that was previously a bye. M2k said his hands felt great when he had that amazing set against Mango on Saturday and then posted his hands hurt yesterday, but we later found out that was because he was playing friendlies against Mango for 7 hours. I look forward to some hype m2k matches.

Glad he was able to get in. Now all the Gods will be there. This will be great.
 
I still have no idea what Pandora's intention as a mechanic was.

It was bascially X-Factor but you lose unless you killed your opponent within the allotted time. I kind of liked that it was situational but I hated that you could easily die from it if you messed up your inputs.

JusticeSoulTuna put up a video of the kind of damage you could get with it last year. It was technically possible with Vanilla but they made adjustments in 2013 that made it easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VI_9IG2J5Q

Also, I didn't realize the RnK guys put up a Cross Assault video for Vanilla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXEelRRD6iI
 
How are you going to play someone across the atlantic

i body the players there with my smart play and i get kicked out. tsk tsk, too salty i guess, was about to play ixion too

Edit:

Europe to America connection too weak, was fine to me lol
 
I've played SFxTK in multiple sessions pre- and post- large patch. It's fun in the same way any fighting game is fun to pick up and fiddle around but there is a laundry list of things I dislike about that game that did not change after playing it. Not my point though, I'm not concerned with the specific details about balancing or any of that because I think it's completely irrelevant to the discussion and I'm scratching my head at why it "[a year later] its a good game doe" footnotes every post.

I already made this point above but I guess I'll be more clear:

I don't understand using corporate meddling as the scapegoat. I'm seeing blame and quality from the product itself relinquished to generally poor decision making as opposed to specifically the decisions made for SFxTK. Man, Capcom sure had some ass decision making at that time, right? No shit, that's a baseline.

So what decisions or titles had more bearing than others? Shitty Marvel contract is shitty Marvel contract, but they had a release plan akin to SF4 and a contract that was in place years before SFxTK became a thing considering MvC3s long dev cycle (assumption: I highly doubt SFxTK's was longer, so working story here is that SFxTK is brought into the picture afterwards), so that's not too bad, right? Tsunami happens, which as far as I can tell which was not a decision made by Capcom. Okay now our post-launch support has gone to shit, but we have all this content here that we can monetize. But now we're also making SFxTK, hmm. We have two games that are not ready for a full release, one of which has a more flexible release schedule (assumption considering TKxSF seems like it can come out between now and the second coming of Jesus), and one of which we know does not (UMvC3; common knowledge). And there the decision was made to release SFxTK in the following year and push UMvC3 up. UMvC3 is released to significant fanfare still, but no longer receives extended post-launch support because of the fallout and contraction of development, and the team is dissolved. SFxTK receives even greater backlash with lukewarm general reception, however it receives significantly more post-launch support and people are singing it's praises a year plus later.

There is no single error, there are a string of them. But the biggest thing here that I can see is that both titles had their quality and Capcom's brand reputation compromised because the release of SFxTK was prioritized. Policies and some rather poorly thought out marketing and gameplay decisions are icing on the cake, and one may argue are even byproducts of the aforementioned decision. It's SFxTK's fault, because the most influential decision here was throwing UMvC3 to the wolves to release SFxTK in it's busted state. If there's a part of the story I'm missing here or one of these assumptions are off, feel free to correct me, but yeah, I think it's pretty understandable why SFxTK is seen as the problem child in all of this.


Capcom had a complete failure of year in general. Everything about UMVC3 was leaked b/c some moron put it up on their official website and Marvel just totally gave up after that incident, and then they announced the freaking Gems...
 
I've played SFxTK in multiple sessions pre- and post- large patch. It's fun in the same way any fighting game is fun to pick up and fiddle around but there is a laundry list of things I dislike about that game that did not change after playing it. Not my point though, I'm not concerned with the specific details about balancing or any of that because I think it's completely irrelevant to the discussion and I'm scratching my head at why it "[a year later] its a good game doe" footnotes every post.

I already made this point above but I guess I'll be more clear:

I don't understand using corporate meddling as the scapegoat. I'm seeing blame and quality from the product itself relinquished to generally poor decision making as opposed to specifically the decisions made for SFxTK. Man, Capcom sure had some ass decision making at that time, right? No shit, that's a baseline.

So what decisions or titles had more bearing than others? Shitty Marvel contract is shitty Marvel contract, but they had a release plan akin to SF4 and a contract that was in place years before SFxTK became a thing considering MvC3s long dev cycle (assumption: I highly doubt SFxTK's was longer, so working story here is that SFxTK is brought into the picture afterwards), so that's not too bad, right? Tsunami happens, which as far as I can tell which was not a decision made by Capcom. Okay now our post-launch support has gone to shit, but we have all this content here that we can monetize. But now we're also making SFxTK, hmm. We have two games that are not ready for a full release, one of which has a more flexible release schedule (assumption considering TKxSF seems like it can come out between now and the second coming of Jesus), and one of which we know does not (UMvC3; common knowledge). And there the decision was made to release SFxTK in the following year and push UMvC3 up. UMvC3 is released to significant fanfare still, but no longer receives extended post-launch support because of the fallout and contraction of development, and the team is dissolved. SFxTK receives even greater backlash with lukewarm general reception, however it receives significantly more post-launch support and people are singing it's praises a year plus later.

There is no single error, there are a string of them. But the biggest thing here that I can see is that both titles had their quality and Capcom's brand reputation compromised because the release of SFxTK was prioritized. Policies and some rather poorly thought out marketing and gameplay decisions are icing on the cake, and one may argue are even byproducts of the aforementioned decision. It's SFxTK's fault, because the most influential decision here was throwing UMvC3 to the wolves to release SFxTK in it's busted state. If there's a part of the story I'm missing here or one of these assumptions are off, feel free to correct me, but yeah, I think it's pretty understandable why SFxTK is seen as the problem child in all of this.

Assuming UMvC3 was given the full time to develop and released in March 2012 instead of late 2011, when would SFXTK find an appropriate timeslot for release? If you're not already aware, 2012 was PACKED with fighting games.

Just from what I remember: SCV, TTT2, VF5FS, Blazblue, Skullgirls, DoA5, and P4A. Between all these games, when would SFXTK have had the chance to release without getting itself cannibalized or cannibalizing another game in the process? That's also the reason Namco pushed SCV out way ahead of schedule in January because they didn't want the game competing with all that I listed above. Plus, I'm confident Capcom wanted this game out before TTT2's september release. Part of the Tekken fanbase was definitely interested in SFXTK purely because of the brand name and if TTT2 released prior to SFXTK, then they probably wouldn't even bother with SFXTK. There's market area Capcom's losing.

Maybe you want to label SFXTK's release as the problem or the decisions surrounding it but I'd rather not call the game trash (which some are here) because it actually has a good gameplay system going for it. Maybe not everyone can appreciate it (just like with any game actually) but there are definitely fans.
 
You have to understand that people who complain about one thing a company does does not mean they endorse things other companies do.

That's flawed, completely derivative, logic with no base.

i disagree. when they come in here talking about those games and buying those products, they ARE endorsing those companies.

im not sure what the "flawed derivative no base" part is in reference to, but my point is it is a *little* hypocritical
 
It was bascially X-Factor but you lose unless you killed your opponent within the allotted time. I kind of liked that it was situational but I hated that you could easily die from it if you messed up your inputs.

JusticeSoulTuna put up a video of the kind of damage you could get with it last year. It was technically possible with Vanilla but they made adjustments in 2013 that made it easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VI_9IG2J5Q

Also, I didn't realize the RnK guys put up a Cross Assault video for Vanilla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXEelRRD6iI
Would you be able to do the Spotlight this week or no?

I wish people volunteered considering it's EVO and all D;
 
BTW, I'd like to note that during the 2013 CPT finals, SFxT stream numbers were actually pretty good. I'm not sure there's ever been any actual concrete evidence that SFxT killed stream numbers or that the majority truly hated to watch it...other than stream monster trolling, which is meaningless.

This crowd seems entertained, especially at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ0EUeRUtrs

When it was actually on a tier 1 stream, it did about as well as other non SF4/Marvel games at the time.
 
Capcom had a complete failure of year in general. Everything about UMVC3 was leaked b/c some moron put it up on their official website and Marvel just totally gave up after that incident, and then they announced the freaking Gems...
It's weird that tech people can be so...ignorant of technology. Smash 4 DLC got leaked, too. -_-

SF4 is the most fun fighting game of all time going by karst logic
Really, people have been playing it longer than Melee? A lot of fighting games have outlived SFIV. We'll never know how much longevity SFIV has because it's being replaced in a timely manner. The real winners are games like Melee and MvC2, which each got a decade out of them.

Many people do find SF4 fun. I am not one of them, but it's clearly a widely enjoyed game.
 
Loving all this nostalgia talk on FGW recently.

I wish SFxT got another chance at EVO though I wish that for quite a few other games as well.


So what's the final word on SFxT? Did stream monsters kill it or did SFxT kill SFxT?
 
Assuming UMvC3 was given the full time to develop and released in March 2012 instead of late 2011, when would SFXTK find an appropriate timeslot for release? If you're not already aware, 2012 was PACKED with fighting games.

Just from what I remember: SCV, TTT2, VF5FS, Blazblue, Skullgirls, DoA5, and P4A. Between all these games, when would SFXTK have had the chance to release without getting itself cannibalized or cannibalizing another game in the process? That's also the reason Namco pushed SCV out way ahead of schedule in January because they didn't want the game competing with all that I listed above. Plus, I'm confident Capcom wanted this game out before TTT2's september release. Part of the Tekken fanbase was definitely interested in SFXTK purely because of the brand name and if TTT2 released prior to SFXTK, then they probably wouldn't even bother with SFXTK. There's market area Capcom's losing.

Maybe you want to label SFXTK's release as the problem or the decisions surrounding it but I'd rather not call the game trash because it actually has a good gameplay system going for it. Maybe not everyone can appreciate it but there are definitely fans.
On the flipside: you think releasing the 2nd iteration to one of your biggest properties months after the first iteration is any better?

How is that preferable to releasing a crossover between two of the biggest fighting game properties, especially under the notion (according to ShockingAlberto) that Capcom didn't feel like it had competition during that time? At the time we heard of just the notion of a SF and Tekken crossover there was no way it wouldn't do gangbusters. The MvC3 series also released in close proximity to Mortal Kombat 9, and UMvC3 close to TTT2, which are arguably bigger hitters to worry about than any of those other titles in 2012 (the biggest one is SCV, which, they released SFxTK in close proximity to anyways). If you're using cannibalization as an argument, they should have steered clear of 2011 than to worry about someone not picking up SFxTK because they wanted an anime game instead. That entire time period is messy, and releasing SFxTK a full year later is a clean spot and when the game "got good" anyways, isn't it?
 
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