I don't think anyone believes Harmonix have any kind of malicious intent for dropping online, they obviously have their reasons for cutting it, but we the fans should also be allowed to point out how disappointing it is, and how much it affects our enjoyment of the game. I still feel they are too vague about their reasons and that they are relying too much on the survey that they did. There are also other factors they're not including like how broken RB3 Online was which scared a lot of people away, and how many people used the survey strategic to get other more important features which was in the danger zone like DLC compatibility. Before the news broke the chance for online being dropped hadn't even crossed my mind, it was a total surprise.
Rock Band 4 announced for PS4 and Xbox One
- Thread starter GameE
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I don't think anyone believes Harmonix have any kind of malicious intent for dropping online, they obviously have their reasons for cutting it, but we the fans should also be allowed to point out how disappointing it is, and how much it affects our enjoyment of the game. I still feel they are too vague about their reasons and that they are relying too much on the survey that they did. There are also other factors they're not including like how broken RB3 Online was which scared a lot of people away, and how many people used the survey strategic to get other more important features which was in the danger zone like DLC compatibility. Before the news broke the chance for online being dropped hadn't even crossed my mind, it was a total surprise.
To which I would ask: do we really think that's because there are more whales and/or revenue-generating players online than off, or because only the whales are left?
Or it could just be the fact that people have just bought more and more songs over the years? My library at least have grown exceptionally since the release of RB3. I don't really have a harder time searching for people now than I did 3 years ago unless I am online at really odd times.
The community is also much better and structured now than what it was during RB3's early days with all their broken and convoluted design choices which made it almost impossible to get a game going, because people would just instantly pick 100 songs and then start the game giving the other players no time to pick a song for themselves. It was just a total mess, and I hated it compared to RB2. Still nothing was done to improve the broken features, and we just had to learn, adapt and create our own system.
RyanPierre
Member
If they didn't add totally new features, the press would pounce on it for being stagnant and stale.
The alternate possibility would be releasing a "remaster" or "HD" version of one of the earlier games, but that's never going to sell as well as a shiny new game with shiny new features.
At what point is "I don't care, I never used * insert feature here*" any less valid than "I'm not buying it, because I loved *insert feature here*"? I used to love Guitar Hero. The new one has nothing for me. I'm not blowing up threads about their game about it. I'm moving on.
Current-gen development is INSANELY expensive. That's why there's so many remasters. Think of how much licensing new music must cost. Think of how expensive porting over old DLC must cost. Those are inherent to the development of this game. Think of how difficult and expensive it might be for a AAA developer. HMX isn't one. So quit your entitled nonsense. Online, they've even said in the past, wasn't hugely popular. Not to downplay the people who loved it, but still. They didn't offer Ion support in the beginning by saying "THIS IS GONNA WORK FOR EVERYTHING EVER".
And keep in mind, they never said any of this ISN'T coming. They just said it won't be there at launch. So calm down. Don't want to be there first day? That makes perfect sense. But stop. Stop thinking they're ignoring you or slighting you. You just sound like babies.
Current-gen development is INSANELY expensive. That's why there's so many remasters. Think of how much licensing new music must cost. Think of how expensive porting over old DLC must cost. Those are inherent to the development of this game. Think of how difficult and expensive it might be for a AAA developer. HMX isn't one. So quit your entitled nonsense. Online, they've even said in the past, wasn't hugely popular. Not to downplay the people who loved it, but still. They didn't offer Ion support in the beginning by saying "THIS IS GONNA WORK FOR EVERYTHING EVER".
And keep in mind, they never said any of this ISN'T coming. They just said it won't be there at launch. So calm down. Don't want to be there first day? That makes perfect sense. But stop. Stop thinking they're ignoring you or slighting you. You just sound like babies.
I just hope for a couple more bands that appeal to my indie/classic rock sensibilities that haven't appeared before either on disc or via dlc (arcade fire, tame impala, pink floyd, Neil Young).
Also I would be overjoyed if you could somehow import Beatles Rock band, ya know the best rock band game
Also I would be overjoyed if you could somehow import Beatles Rock band, ya know the best rock band game
To which I would ask: do we really think that's because there are more whales and/or revenue-generating players online than off, or because only the whales are left?
It's definitely disappointing it's not there because even though I don't play online at all anymore I'm sure I'd play with some of the C3 folks while I had my free months or w/e after I get around to buying an XB1.
Say its probably a mixture, RB3 has been out for a long time now, so id say that casual player base has definitely died off, would be tough having fun if you only have the stock 83 songs for 5 years (which wasn't too strong of a setlist to start with), I'd expect the same with RB4 too, some players will buy it, play the on disc stuff for a couple of month and drop it, those that buy DLC will stick with it longer
As far as I'm aware, there is no way to play pirated songs online, you can play custom songs etc (which I guess you could turn a official DLC song into a custom song?) but that requires being on a older version of the game which wouldn't be able to go online, granted, I haven't really looked into it either.
Its really not hard to build up a sizable collection, RB has been out for almost a decade now, personally, I just set aside $80 a month until I caught up with DLC
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Never gonna happen sadly. Apple records are infamous for having a tight hold on the Beatles' name and discography to allow those songs to transfer over to a non-beatles product. It's a bit of a miracle the record label allowed the game to be made in the first place to be honest.
Cheesewheel
Member
I posted in this thread about half a year ago hoping for ion support. I guess with that not happening I can skip this title. No online makes that decision even easier.
JonathanEx
Member
I never had Ions, so question - are they wired? We've had no confirmation on any wired instruments (well, USB mics aside) yet, have we?
Yes, ions and midi drums are USB
I don't call it entitled to not buy a product that doesn't do what I want
Dreamwriter
Member
So you would have released Rock Band 3 and called it 4? What would be the point? Who would have bought the same old game with zero new features, when they could still play the old one? Also, online multiplayer is one of the hardest, most expensive things to develop in a game, so suggesting that removing the solo feature would give them time/money to add in decent online is a flawed concept.
Btw, adding features later in a patch isn't new to the series, the first Rock Band for example didn't even ship with an in-game DLC store, you had to buy songs from your console's store, they patched in the in-game music store later.
Developers aren't entitled to a sale if they don't include features the consumers want.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I only have 107, because I only buy the music I like, not what others like.
Lady Siara
Member
HMX is about two months out from release. This is crunch time and they have come out and been pretty honest with certain features not being available at launch and certain features that are being skipped entirely. In the case of ION drums, they've said that we need to contact ION about getting support for RB4. That is a pretty clear answer and I'm happy with that.
We haven't heard what their current thinking on online multiplayer is. We went from assuming it was in, to being told that it was being skipped for launch but may be added later, and now with some ambiguous wording in the new FAQ, we don't know if it's being added at all. Even if they can't guarantee that they'll add it, I'd be satisfied with a 'maybe'. It shows that they're still willing to make it work if it's feasible in any way.
I think people also forget that RB4 is also the first game in the series to not have the financial backing of a major publisher. Online play is a huge financial investment and development timesink that is important to some people, but maybe not enough of them at the cost of getting the game out the door.
They've stated that this is THE Rock Band experience for this gen - sales of the game and ongoing DLC is what will make the development of those features possible. It's unfortunate that people who seem very invested in the past of the series aren't willing to invest in its future. It could be the difference between us getting certain features a few months down the road and never getting those features at all.
RB4 already comes out in a new engine with next gen console support and 60+ new songs which is basically all most of us wanted for the new title. There is no need to add new gimmicks for the sake of justifying calling it a sequel, especially when so many core features are already being removed from the game. They were riding the solo gimmick pretty hard on E3 which almost got exclusive coverage, so they have obviously put a lot of effort into it. And that makes their priorities kind of confusing to me, like on one side it feels like they are barely heads above water financially, but on the other side they put in a lot of effort into fancy gimmicks I don't think anyone ever asked for.
RB3 was pretty much the perfect game feature wise, it suffered mostly from design flaws and technical bugs that could have been fixed with UI and menu tweaks. Unfortunately Harmonix stopped supporting RB3 with patches almost immediately after release, so all the bugs and problems remained forever souring what was the definitive rhythm based game.
Online is one of the oldest core features of the franchise that has been a part of every game since the first title was released. It's even older than DLC support. To me it's up there with guitar, bass, drums and vocal inclusion which is why it's such a deal breaker for many of us, and why we're so passionate and vocal about hopefully including it in the future. A lot of us doesn't have a local band or real friends who plays the game, so our alternative is to play alone or stick with RB3 thus opting us out of supporting the franchise by buying the new instruments or any future DLC since they're not compatible with RB3.
There is nothing more I want than to see this game succeed. It's the only franchise I've continuously been active in for the last 6-7 years, and I've supported the game with almost 1700 songs. My PS3 was maxed years ago with RB3 players, but if it hadn't been for online I would never even have played past GH3.
Exactly it feels like I am expected to take a gamble on buying the bundle then shelving it in the hopes that online will be added in some future patch down the road. As of today this is far from a guarantee, and I don't get the feeling that Harmonix cares about online at all so you'd take a pretty risky gamble. Hardly any of my DLC friends is buying the game either as they are much more upset about this than I am.
RyanPierre
Member
The fact that you're upset that online was dropped for launch doesn't mean that every other feature they've added to the game is a "gimmick." I've heard nothing but positive things about the freestyle solos. It's a shame that you're so intent on downplaying the genuine innovation they're bringing to the game.
Perhaps we have different interpretations of "almost immediately," but their last patch that I remember was over a year after the game's release.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Yup, it's a problem when you're being asked to buy a game that'll still technically be "in progress" quite a while after launch, has a full price retail release, AND a rather pricey bundle from the get-go. It's only 3 or so months away from release and there's still seems to be a lot of umm-ing and ah-ing over what's actually going to be in the game at release. Basic 5 button legacy keys being ommited, and online play being exempt from the game are two of the biggest turn-offs for me at the moment, shame really, as the online community, and the score leaderboards for online bands are fucking great in previous games.
Hopefully we get a concrete lowdown on exactly what will, and won't be in the game closer to release, because I'm a little skeptical as of late. Oh also, is there a solus physical copy of the game available from launch? All I can see is guitar and band bundles.
FlashFlooder
Member
I'll be really sad if my drums don't work at launch.
I don't understand why they wouldn't work via the MIDI Pro adapter on PS4, since as far as I can tell all it's doing is emulating controller inputs.
I know that XBox has some kind of protection scheme on their controllers, but I don't think that's the case on PS4.
All this to say that I'm still holding out hope that the MIDI pro will work on PS4 at launch. Maybe they just don't want to announce this yet for fear of alienating Xbox fans.
I don't understand why they wouldn't work via the MIDI Pro adapter on PS4, since as far as I can tell all it's doing is emulating controller inputs.
I know that XBox has some kind of protection scheme on their controllers, but I don't think that's the case on PS4.
All this to say that I'm still holding out hope that the MIDI pro will work on PS4 at launch. Maybe they just don't want to announce this yet for fear of alienating Xbox fans.
I agree. Unless you love the usual gameplay that much, that you can convince yourself that you'll be having a good time with it, I don't see why someone would pre-order this.
A lot of factors come into play, unconfirmed features, options, the tracklist is not even fully out there.
I'm definitely not going to place a pre-order until all the info is out there. Maybe bandkits are limited but considering MadCatz is expecting to break even with the sales of these, I'm not too worried about it. And I'm not going to put down that kind of money until the details are fully out there.
With that said, I'm sure they will reveal everything before the actual release. I'm just not going to pre-order anything until I know all the facts.
A lot of factors come into play, unconfirmed features, options, the tracklist is not even fully out there.
I'm definitely not going to place a pre-order until all the info is out there. Maybe bandkits are limited but considering MadCatz is expecting to break even with the sales of these, I'm not too worried about it. And I'm not going to put down that kind of money until the details are fully out there.
With that said, I'm sure they will reveal everything before the actual release. I'm just not going to pre-order anything until I know all the facts.
Jawmuncher
Member
I'm sure the 34 tracks for preordering might be swaying some people. If it has bands they like.
Quadraphonic
Member
Exactly.
It's a catch-22.
But if you wait to buy shows no interest, therefore postpones or cancels the features you are waiting for altogether.
But at the same time, you don't want to reward releasing a half-finished product.
Ok, English is not my first language, but that's the word I felt appropriate for it. I still think it is a gimmick.
Doctor Ironic
Member
Six years of experiencing an active and blooming online community...
You know that customs, basically the things that kept the game on life support for the past five years, prevent you from playing online right?
PROh1bited
Banned
New song announcement's for RB4 tomorrow!
Why does this sound like this game should just have had a damn Kickstarter.
Customs? What's that?
You know customs , the game songs that you didn't need to pay for kept game alive -rolls eyes-
Doctor Ironic
Member
Going by this logic, by playing RB3 online today, you are killing it because the servers earn Harmonix negative money.
I'm sure they considered it. Shipping out a bunch of instrument bundles would have probably eaten far too deeply into the money raised, the regular retail channel was probably the more efficient route.
You took that the wrong way.......you said life support basically saying that customs kept the servers running but barely. I took that logic as that they were somehow making money through customs, of which they are not.
Doctor Ironic
Member
I never mentioned servers, I said game. The game's longevity, as in the amount people were willing to replay the game, was increased by the existence of customs. Have you seriously never heard of the "dead game" meme?
Kickstarter is just in general an increasingly unattractive route for developers. Turns out video game consumers are almost as terrible and unreasonably demanding as video game publishers, with the added bonus of not understanding how video games are made!
falconxcrunner09
Member
Custom songs made by the Rock Band community. The catalogue is actually pretty extensive. There is Muse, Led Zeppelin, and various other artists that were never able to make it into Rock Band due to licensing issues. Hell, you can get the Pokemon theme song and Power Rangers theme song.
Wonder what number constitutes "a ton" in Harmonix PR talk. Paging nicholasbrutal...
I highly doubt that those 34 tracks are going to sway anyone. They're all HMX bands, and were already available in RB3 (or at least most of them were). A good portion of us already have the tracks available.
PROh1bited
Banned
Wonder what number constitutes "a ton" in Harmonix PR talk. Paging nicholasbrutal...
I'm going to go with 10. I think it was 11 last time around.
MC5? Rage?
Predicting one or a few of these wonderfully (possibly leaked) songs.
4 Non Blondes - What's up
Arctic Monkeys - Do i wanna know?
Autograph - Turn up the radio
Cage The Elephant - Ain't no rest for the wicked
Fountains of Wayne - Stacey's mom
My Chemical Romance - Dead!
Offspring - Why don't you get a job
Toto - Africa
Wallflowers - One headlight
Rolling Stones - Beast of burden
Dire Straits - Sultans of swing
Gin Blossoms - Hey jealousy
Neon Trees - Everybody talks
Rolling Stones - Beast of burden
Quads get!
4 Non Blondes - What's up
Arctic Monkeys - Do i wanna know?
Autograph - Turn up the radio
Cage The Elephant - Ain't no rest for the wicked
Fountains of Wayne - Stacey's mom
My Chemical Romance - Dead!
Offspring - Why don't you get a job
Toto - Africa
Wallflowers - One headlight
Rolling Stones - Beast of burden
Dire Straits - Sultans of swing
Gin Blossoms - Hey jealousy
Neon Trees - Everybody talks
Rolling Stones - Beast of burden
Quads get!
Lord of Castamere
Member
Are Beatles songs carrying over? I would pay all the money to play my Beatle songs on PS4.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Nope, and they probably never will sadly. Apple Records keeps the Beatles name on a tight leash. They never allow the bands stuff on anything that's not a beatles product.
son of a Sven
Banned
That's a fucking great list! Hope they all make it
Lord of Castamere
Member
Sad. I miss playing it
It really wouldn't have been the same without the stages anyway. A gem in a sea of milk.Crimsonclaw111
Member
I'm hoping for the song reveal they show some features too. Like practice mode :/
If half of these were true, this game would seriously be contender for best on-disc setlist.
That may be added in later depending on support XD!
Doctor Ironic
Member
You seem pretty upset about this game despite being flat out wrong about several of its aspects.