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[theecakee]

I don't dispute that Sanders is the best candidate for BLM, but it sounds so silly when you say "he's doing this one thing now and he did this one thing then! What more do you want??"

It may be unrealistic to expect a platform based on black issues, but it's not unreasonable to want it.

But its just Bernie's whole thing about fighting income inequality, that's the whole splinter of the left wing side he caters to. I get they want someone who supports their movement, and I think its only a matter of time before a candidate who deeply cares about those issues comes up, but I feel like doing this hostile take over only hurts the left instead of helping it...its self destructive.

I wouldn't be surprised if a more Social Injustice candidate on the left comes up eventually. That candidate and Bernie are probably going to push Hillary or whoever the moderate Democrat is that wins more left on those issues (social injustice and economic)

 

[Almighty]

Poor Bernie is pretty much what first pops into my mind. I can sympathize with all the anger out there, but he really seems like the wrong person to go after and because he doesn't surround himself with security like I assume Clinton does seems to be getting the brunt of it.

 

[Valhelm]

Or Hilary having been doing these type of events for literally decades has a better security squad.

Somethin something razor

Royalan mentioned this earlier and this is a great point, but I feel like an attempted protest would still be publicized by somebody.

 

[kess]

The Washington Times story links a Frontpage Magazine post that used Jim Hoft as a source -- the same dude who was making the absolutely false claim that Darren Wilson suffered an "orbital blowout" from Michael Brown.

calm the fuck down people, the far right is laughing at you

 

[Hazmat]

Trump being an under cover agent seems more likely then this bullshit the Right Wind Media and the Washington Times is pushing.

Some liberals buying into the idea that a black civil rights group is for sale as a political hit squad seems kind of messed up.

 

[dehydratedbabies]

This Monday I went to an organizing meeting of Bernie Sanders supporters at a local diner (I've been volunteering throughout my state in support of his campaign). Every supporter there was white. We discussed our 7/29 kickoff meetings, and how 99% of the attendees at those meetings were white (our state is 80% white). We were in the middle of discussing how we can change this going forward when our waitress, who was a black woman, returned. One of the supporters, a 70-year-old+ white man, said (I'm paraphrasing) "Well here's one right now!". The most cringeworthy thing that could've happened, which I'd moments before been jokingly imagining in my head, happened, and while I and the other younger attendees clenched our jaws and shot Cyclops lasers at the floor the oldest, whitest members of the group started jointly pitching Bernie Sanders to this shocked and corned waitress. "He was born in Brooklyn... Marched with King... Civil Rights...". I was mortified. But, the waitress handled it fucking amazingly and dissolved the awkwardness by revealing a bit about herself (studying something to do with language that I don't remember at a state college, follows politics a bit but is busy, in addition to English speaks Greek, Japanese, and one other language, etc.) and humoring the group before gracefully exiting. I breathed a sigh of relief and the instigators seemed pleased with the exchange.

I think that in areas where black and white communities rarely interact there is a lot of misunderstanding and awkwardness. I think that the vast majority of white Bernie Sanders supporters mean well and are eager to please, but I think that many of them, particularly the older ones who aren't fully tuned into the Internet and the social movements that it's cultivating, don't understand that often in their eagerness to please they miss the point and reveal themselves as ignorant. I don't think that ignorance = racism or a lack of empathy, and I believe that these people, and Bernie Sanders supporters in general, want to be allies of the disenfranchised minority communities but have no idea how to be. I think that a lot of older white people need to have it explained to them why "All Lives Matter" is considered offensive, and why "He marched with King!" isn't the point, and why "White Privilege" doesn't mean "White Wealth", and that when done with empathy these people will listen, understand, and become valuable and active allies to the causes of Black Lives Matter and other similar movements.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I can't feel bad for Bernie. How many times can you fail at this?

 

[ISOM]

This Monday I went to an organizing meeting of Bernie Sanders supporters at a local diner (I've been volunteering throughout my state in support of his campaign). Every supporter there was white. We discussed our 7/29 kickoff meetings, and how 99% of the attendees at those meetings were white (our state is 80% white). We were in the middle of discussing how we can change this going forward when our waitress, who was a black woman, returned. One of the supporters, a 70-year-old+ white man, said (I'm paraphrasing) "Well here's one right now!". The most cringeworthy thing that could've happened, which I'd moments before been jokingly imagining in my head, happened, and while I and the other younger attendees clenched our jaws and shot Cyclops lasers at the floor the oldest, whitest members of the group started jointly pitching Bernie Sanders to this shocked and corned waitress. "He was born in Brooklyn... Marched with King... Civil Rights...". I was mortified. But, the waitress handled it fucking amazingly and dissolved the awkwardness by revealing a bit about herself (studying something to do with language that I don't remember at a state college, follows politics a bit but is busy, in addition to English speaks Greek, Japanese, and one other language, etc.) and humoring the group before gracefully exiting. I breathed a sigh of relief and the instigators seemed pleased with the exchange.

I think that in areas where black and white communities rarely interact there is a lot of misunderstanding and awkwardness. I think that the vast majority of white Bernie Sanders supporters mean well and are eager to please, but I think that many of them, particularly the older ones who aren't fully tuned into the Internet and the social movements that it's cultivating, don't understand that often in their eagerness to please they miss the point and reveal themselves as ignorant. I don't think that ignorance = racism or a lack of empathy, and I believe that these people, and Bernie Sanders supporters in general, want to be allies of the disenfranchised minority communities but have no idea how to be. I think that a lot of older white people need to have it explained to them why "All Lives Matter" is considered offensive, and why "He marched with King!" isn't the point, and why "White Privilege" doesn't mean "White Wealth", and that when done with empathy these people will listen, understand, and become valuable and active allies to the causes of Black Lives Matter and other similar movements.

Well said especially the final couple of sentences of your post.

 

[Abinash117]

The problem I see with this is he will obviously champion your ideas. He doesn't have a concrete or well laid out plan, but his track record has shown he will champion the goals of minorities by voting, creating, and promoting bills that benefit minorities. That alone is easily more reassuring than a campaign plan.

Well I don't think some people necessary cares what some people has done a while ago( they probably do care , but care more about actual plans now ). Also, it was probably just some random people, the last protest probably would have been the last one if it weren't for these people who probably was acting on their own( if you know what I mean). It did not seem these people new what they were doing.

 

[thepotatoman]

Maybe that's what he believes. I'd certainly be interested if he clarifies his position on it.

I think he probably does see that, currently, race inequality is primarily, though not solely, caused by class issues. And I think a lot of Black Lives Matters people think that race issues are the primary catalyst and so there is some incompatibility there.

But it seems like class and race are two sides of the same coin, and both feed into each other enough that people that focus on class and people that focus on race can work together as allies, instead of both trying to force the other side into mainly focusing on their side. I'm not seeing why Bernie can't view the problem as a primarily economic one as long as there's agreement on both the problem that the inequality exists, and the solutions on how to help solve it.

I think that's why a big part of my frustration with this demonstration comes from how it's not clear enough why those supporters don't see him as an ally. I know protestors don't have to get into specifics when they bring up a problem, but when someone already clearly supports the cause, you need to be clearer about why he's not doing enough.

Not really.

So much of this debate revolves around fighting over symptoms instead of addressing the underlining problem. Police killing black people is not the major issue of the community, or the biggest problem. I'd argue it's less of a problem than an expected end result of the socioeconomic conditions. If you redline a neighborhood, dumb a bunch of people there, depress the economic system over time as middle class jobs disappear, flood the area with drugs...you're going to get a dangerous, ugly neighborhood that requires more aggressive policing than you'd need in a suburb.

Obviously not every black person in the country is living in bad conditions - these conversations tend to ignore the black middle class - but most of the biggest cases of police brutality happen in high crime areas. Ghettos that have been systematically created.

The question should be how do you fix those areas. If the conditions on the ground improve - better schools to keep kids focused, jobs to increase the tax base, etc - there would be less drugs and less police. For all the talk about liberal policies not helping black people, we've never seen that type of liberal policy in effect on a macro level. Perhaps it's not feasible; after all, those low education working class jobs (manufacturing) aren't coming back anytime soon.

Very true.

I can't really say which side of the issue is more or less important to focus on, but seems like there universal agreement on there being multiple factors to the problem. Demonstrations like this Black Lives Matter one seems to force the discussion to the singular factor of the police, which seems only harmful to me.

 

[Kreed]

That... makes even less sense. How would interrupting a Medicare and Social Security event help their cause. It's even more distant then interrupting a Sanders rally.

They just want a response from Bernie IMO and are trying to get it any way they can. I agree with many in both threads that have said Bernie should be last in line for #BLM interruptions, but unfortunately he is making this into a "thing" and fueling more interruptions by how he's (not) been responding. Meanwhile Hilary keeps capitalizing on mistakes like "all lives matter" and "economic equality".

 

[soleil]

Some liberals buying into the idea that a black civil rights group is for sale as a political hit squad seems kind of messed up.

So you think that consciously being put up for sale is the only way there can be influence from a source of funding? How about the source of funding simply making a suggestion to leaders to go protest Sanders while not mentioning the possibility of protesting Hillary? No big conspiracy. Just good old fashioned bias.

 

[Condom]

My point is that there are various reasons to protest someone - to get them to change their mind, to make that person's fanbase think more about their choice in President, to expose something about the President, etc. The protests are most likely aiming for the first two.

In that big pile of shit called American politics, you attack the weakest yet most radical and leftist candidate that the 2 parties provide?

Nah, these protesters are a bunch of idiots who don't understand politics at all, they need their own candidate for their single issue movement but they can't comprehend that for some reason.

 

[norm9]

In that big pile of shit called American politics, you attack the weakest yet most radical and leftist candidate that the 2 parties provide?

Nah, these protesters are a bunch of idiots who don't understand politics at all, they need their own candidate for their single issue movement but they can't comprehend that for some reason.

Agreed. Not the time for one single issue. It's too early.

 

[Hazmat]

So you think that consciously being put up for sale is the only way there can be influence from a source of funding? How about the source of funding simply making a suggestion to leaders to go protest Sanders while not mentioning the possibility of protesting Hillary? No big conspiracy. Just good old fashioned bias.

Saying that a civil rights group would work for a donor (that evil phantom Soros) and take down a candidate rather than focus on pressing their agenda in the way they see fit implies to me that you don't think highly of that group.

Also, you're going to need a better source than the Washington Times. Liberals heralding the journalistic prowess of the Washington Times. Hoo boy.

 

[soleil]

Saying that a civil rights group would work for a donor (that evil phantom Soros) and take down a candidate rather than focus on pressing their agenda in the way they see fit implies to me that you don't think highly of that group.

Also, you're going to need a better source than the Washington Times. Liberals heralding the journalistic prowess of the Washington Times. Hoo boy.

If you have some reason to doubt the report more substantial than ad hominem insinuations, present them.

As for your first paragraph, I don't think highly of their approach. Look at their facebook page posted earlier in this thread. #BowDownBernie? That's not looking for a dialogue.

As for the group itself and their cause, they deserve a bigger stage. And they should use it to engage in dialogue with the presidential candidate who actually pushed for the policies that caused the problem they are protesting, and ask her what specific policies she has to change them and how she can be trusted on this issue.

 

[Transhuman]

Saying that a civil rights group would work for a donor (that evil phantom Soros) and take down a candidate rather than focus on pressing their agenda in the way they see fit implies to me that you don't think highly of that group.

Also, you're going to need a better source than the Washington Times. Liberals heralding the journalistic prowess of the Washington Times. Hoo boy.

After watching that video and reading the article, I personally don't think very highly of that group.

 

[Agnostic]

Are they trying to get white people on their side? Taking the mic and calling the crowd "white screaming racists" seems to be the wrong way to go.

 

[Condom]

They just want a response from Bernie IMO and are trying to get it any way they can. I agree with many in both threads that have said Bernie should be last in line for #BLM interruptions, but unfortunately he is making this into a "thing" and fueling more interruptions by how he's (not) been responding. Meanwhile Hilary keeps capitalizing on mistakes like "all lives matter" and "economic equality".

This is the funny bit, people just don't even know what being a democratic socialist means apparently.


Go to Europe and ask a random European what they stand for and it's economic equality, anti-fascism, pro-diversity, feminism and so on.

Sanders saying he is a social-democrat automatically means you should vote for him if you want a change when it comes to the racism issues.

This is like going to Bush's speeches and protesting because you haven't heard how much he supports capitalism and rich people. Even if Bush would not say that explicitly, it's obvious that he supports those things.

EDIT: Want to add that I see your point, he should capitalize more on the thing because it isn't clear to people.

 

[werks]

I don't believe the soros conspiracy.

What I do find suspect is that these people started their activism yesterday and created their own Seattle page yesterday, when one already exists. Were they part of the Seattle BLM movement the whole time, disagreed with the existing movement and splintered off to protest. Or did they never engage the existing BLM movement and literally try to co opt BLM Seattle movement on their own.

Seems more opportunistic self promoting rather than activism.

 

[Hazmat]

If you have some reason to doubt the report more substantial than ad hominem insinuations, present them.

As for your first paragraph, I don't think highly of their approach. Look at their facebook page posted earlier in this thread. #BowDownBernie? That's not looking for a dialogue.

As for the group itself and their cause, they deserve a bigger stage. And they should use it to engage in dialogue with the presidential candidate who actually pushed for the policies that caused the problem they are protesting, and ask her what specific policies she has to change them and how she can be trusted on this issue.

Dude, I'm not going to spend the time to break down why that source is shit. Some people earlier in the thread did somewhat, you can look for those.

Also, there's no point arguing with or debating you. You're rabidly defensive of Bernie Sanders on this board. You're the definition of someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

 

[User 73706]

This is fucking embarrassing, do they not understand that this is only making the black community look more aggressive?

Yeah, the second black people put their foot down about basic human rights (such as existing), their message was lost.

 

[werks]

Yeah, the second black people put their foot down about basic human rights (such as existing), their message was lost.

Is that why the long existing BLM Seattle page is apologizing and the one that got created yesterday is issuing the #bowdownbernie press release?

 

[soleil]

Dude, I'm not going to spend the time to break down why that source is shit. Some people earlier in the thread did somewhat, you can look for those.

Also, there's no point arguing with or debating you. You're rabidly defensive of Bernie Sanders on this board. You're the definition of someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

1) Other people also offered ad hominem style attacks on the source.

2) I started this thread with a criticism of how Bernie hasn't been focusing enough on race, so your ad hominem attack on me being "rabidly defensive of Bernie" is not only a fallacy, but it's not even true.

3) Changing the subject is a deflective move used when you can't admit you're wrong.

 

[theecakee]

This is the funny bit, people just don't even know what being a democratic socialist means apparently.


Go to Europe and ask a random European what they stand for and it's economic equality, anti-fascism, pro-diversity, feminism and so on.

Sanders saying he is a social-democrat automatically means you should vote for him if you want a change when it comes to the racism issues.

This is like going to Bush's speeches and protesting because you haven't heard how much he supports capitalism and rich people. Even if Bush would not say that explicitly, it's obvious that he supports those things.

EDIT: Want to add that I see your point, he should capitalize more on the thing because it isn't clear to people.

I agree, it really should have been taken for granted he supports the movement as well. I do hope he makes a better statement and plan about it like O'Malley did.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't understand. What Bernie has done and acted on in the past should automatically negate him from any claims of racism or not caring about black people.

He's probably the most PRO racially sensitive politician we have running for President at this point.

 

[Interfectum]

#BowDownBernie?

wtf

 

[soleil]

#BowDownBernie?

wtf

Yeah. That's the "dialogue" that royalan wants Bernie to engage them on.

 

[royalan]

Yeah. That's the "dialogue" that royalan wants Bernie to engage them on.

I don't recall saying anything about a hashtag created by an unverified Facebook page.

 

[Boke1879]

Are they trying to get white people on their side? Taking the mic and calling the crowd "white screaming racists" seems to be the wrong way to go.

I don't think anyone is worried about getting white people on their side. Anyone who knows what the movement stands for will still support it. Then you have the other group that literally finds any excuse to make this movement illegitimate. They are usually the #AllLivesMatter crowd.

 

[werks]

I don't recall saying anything about a hashtag created by an unverified Facebook page.

The verified Facebook page is disavowing the protest.

 

[royalan]

The verified Facebook page is disavowing the protest.

And? What does that have to do with me and #BowDownBernie?

 

[UltimaPooh]

I think we can all agree no one wants these people talking for them:

http://m.kirotv.com/news/news/social-security-medicare-rally-featuring-sen-berni/nnGDm/

BLM has issued an apology and cleared up the whole thing and Bernie was pretty cool and understanding about the whole situation.

Seems like the topic is pretty much done being discussed.

 

[Big Baybee]

Yeah. That's the "dialogue" that royalan wants Bernie to engage them on.

No, it's not. :-/

 

[werks]

And? What does that have to do with me and #BowDownBernie?

So who is he engaging? From the looks of it, it was just 3 random people that made their own page and co opt BLM. Is Bernie required to engage any random person at any event as long as they claim to be BLM?

 

[Jeevesmeister]

https://twitter.com/ArmyStrang/status/630207932257431557

Ferguson and other municipalities in St. Louis are still pumping out tickets that target poor minorities. But no one cares any more because Ferguson isn't sexy any more. It's old news. Some changes have happened, but it's still a mess. I bring this up because once the smoke clears and the hashtags dry up, we're the ones left picking up the pieces. And it really makes me think a lot of people who involved themselves in Ferguson did it for their own brands.

Feels like these Bernie protests are just a few people trying to forward their own brand, honestly. It's the same few people and no matter what Bernie does they refuse to let him speak, then shame him for not speaking up enough. It's absurd.

 

[royalan]

So who is he engaging? From the looks of it, it was just 3 random people that made their own page and co opt BLM. Is Bernie required to engage any random person at any event as long as they claim to be BLM?

Yes, actually. Either that or beef up his security.

But his huff and puff and walk off the stage bit is only going to guarantee that this happens whenever there's a window for it to. Not to mention destroy his chance at the black vote.

 

[Kusagari]

Yes, actually. Either that or beef up his security.

But his huff and puff and walk off the stage bit is only going to guarantee that this happens whenever there's a window for it to. Not to mention destroy his chance at the black vote.

Do you think any other candidate has done anything to get the black vote over him?

 

[PhoenixDark]

https://twitter.com/ArmyStrang/status/630207932257431557



Feels like these Bernie protests are just a few people trying to forward their own brand, honestly. It's the same few people and no matter what Bernie does they refuse to let him speak, then shame him for not speaking up enough. It's absurd.

You mean those protests didn't translate into an actual political movement to retake the city through elections? Shocking.

 

[royalan]

Do you think any other candidate has done anything to get the black vote over him?

That's irrelevant.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I just find it repulsive. Bernie's track record both on his voting record as a senator and what he's done throughout his life isn't just some dream that he forgot to mention in the campaign, everything he talks about circles back to lower classes, this is blacks, as well as every other major minority block in America.

What really bothers me is that Hillary has been in major support all throughout her career of garbage initiatives that essentially punish us through drug referendums and incarceration, only crawling back to secure a voting block.

I can tell you now, the majority of the black vote who support her now don't even know her platform, only who she is by proxy and who she is related to.

Its absolutely disgusting as a black male having to watch people being led around by this pony show.

 

[UltimaPooh]

That's irrelevant.

Not in the game of politics.

 

[Wall]

So, it wasn't a Bernie Sanders rally; it was an event for Social Security and Medicare.

Also, it looks like a Twitter account associated with the Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter issued an apology for the disruption; that apology was echoed by a Facebook account also associated with the Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter.

However, another Facebook page associated with a Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter took responsibility for the protest.

So, at the very best, the first part of the thread title is half true, and the second part of the thread title isn't true at all. I wish there was some way to update it.

Actually, to my knowledge Black Lives Matter has never disrupted or protested a Bernie Sanders rally. Netroots Nation was a gathering of online progressive activists at which Sanders was invited to speak, and the event today was a rally for Social Security and Medicare; although, this protest seemed more specifically targeted at Sanders.

 

[Enron]

internet says these folks are not BLM and are some group called Outside Agitators 206.

So basically, your typical left wing whackos that show up to throw shit at G8 Summits and the like.

 

[benicillin]

Yes, actually. Either that or beef up his security.

But his huff and puff and walk off the stage bit is only going to guarantee that this happens whenever there's a window for it to. Not to mention destroy his chance at the black vote.

He didn't huff and puff off the stage at all, though - he handed them the microphone respectfully and stayed on the side of the stage for quite some time listening, even during the 4 and a half minute moment of silence they requested. He had his actual rally later tonight and had to leave because they ate up his slot he put aside for the medicare/social security anniversary event.

 

[werks]

Yes, actually. Either that or beef up his security.

But his huff and puff and walk off the stage bit is only going to guarantee that this happens whenever there's a window for it to. Not to mention destroy his chance at the black vote.

He didn't huff and puff offstage. It was a SS/Medicare event where Bernie was going to speak before going to his own rally. They literally took up all his time and he left to go to his own pre scheduled rally.

The only thing Bernie is doing wrong is not running a bullshit choreographed campaign, actually engaging other political organizations and speaking in events that aren't all about him.

 

[dehydratedbabies]

Yes, actually. Either that or beef up his security.

But his huff and puff and walk off the stage bit is only going to guarantee that this happens whenever there's a window for it to. Not to mention destroy his chance at the black vote.

I think that he left because he had a limited amount of time to be there and the interruption made his speech impossible.

 

[FiggyCal]

internet says these folks are not BLM and are some group called Outside Agitators 206.

So basically, your typical left wing whackos that show up to throw shit at G8 Summits and the like.

This city is filled with white progressives, which is why Bernie Sanders’ camp was obviously expecting a friendly and consenting audience for today’s campaign visit. The problem with Sanders’, and with white Seattle progressives in general, is that they are utterly and totally useless (when not outright harmful) in terms of the fight for Black lives. While we are drowning in their liberal rhetoric, we have yet to see them support Black grassroots movements or take on any measure of risk and responsibility for ending the tyranny of white supremacy in our country and in our city. This willful passivity while claiming solidarity with the ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ movement in an effort to be relevant is over. White progressive Seattle and Bernie Sanders cannot call themselves liberals while they participate in the racist system that claims Black lives.

Yeah. I was just about to post this from their website. They sound very confused.

Has Bernie called himself a liberal even? This is a genuine question... I feel like people don't understand that socialists aren't liberal.

 

[Transhuman]

Also, it looks like a Twitter account associated with the Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter issued an apology for the disruption; that apology was echoed by a Facebook account also associated with the Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter.

However, another Facebook page associated with a Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter took responsibility for the protest.

https://www.facebook.com/BLMSeattle

Is it this one that was made less than a day ago with a picture of two girls at the top in swimwear for some reason?

Edit: Stupid question

 

[gogosox82]

So, it wasn't a Bernie Sanders rally; it was an event for Social Security and Medicare.

Also, it looks like a Twitter account associated with the Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter issued an apology for the disruption; that apology was echoed by a Facebook account also associated with the Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter.

However, another Facebook page associated with a Seattle chapter of Black Lives Matter took responsibility for the protest.

So, at the very best, the first part of the thread title is half true, and the second part of the thread title isn't true at all. I wish there was some way to update it.

Actually, to my knowledge Black Lives Matter has never disrupted or protested a Bernie Sanders rally. Netroots Nation was a gathering of online progressive activists at which Sanders was invited to speak, and the event today was a rally for Social Security and Medicare; although, this protest seemed more specifically targeted at Sanders.

internet says these folks are not BLM and are some group called Outside Agitators 206.

So basically, your typical left wing whackos that show up to throw shit at G8 Summits and the like.

Well this is disappointing to hear. I feel like people are going to associate these people with the movement when they seemingly have nothing to do with it. I wonder if Sanders will talk about this at his rally tonight.