CNN poll : Donald Trump now competitive in general election

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outunderthestars said:
No. You come into the thread with an inflammatory post, then repeatedly refuse to answer questions but instead attempt preemptive personal attacks instead of having to actually back up your statement that Hillary would somehow be just as bad as Trump without having to point to any specific platform.
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Actually I didn't give you a personal attack at all and again you're proving my point, you came in aggressive and now you are leaving aggressive. I didn't make an inflammatory post either, all i said is that hillary wouldn't do much better than trump and from the looks of it you made a couple of assumptions based on that vague post all by yourself, as you are attacking me as if i said one was better than the other, or I can't have my own opinions. Now I'm doing preemptive personal attacks? i'm not, you are posting thinking I said words I never said.

This is why I did not want to expand the conversation, so if you feel bad about that I'm sorry, but I clearly wouldn't change your view regardless which is why I said nothing else bu that one sentence to you.

But please let us not derail the thread.
 
U2NUMB said:
I suggest you all get on board or he might come after you after he is elected our King.

Coming from someone who lives in a state where we elected a Wrestler as Governor and a Comedian as Senator.... for some reason that type of fame just works at the political level.

Even if it does not make sense... it just for some reason has a pull.
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To b e fair, Al Franken doesn't really have the same name recognition as Ventura. I voted for him because he was a liberal and I didn't mind his ideas.
 
Wr3qvN2.gif
 
I am confused by people who would vote for Trump over Clinton. You must be a single issue voter (on what issue I am not sure), because otherwise a Clinton presidency would be closer to a Sanders one than a Trump presidency.

Remember, no matter how great their ideas are during a campaign, all of these candidates must work with what will likely continue to be GOP dominated congress. Also I do not want Trump to nominate Omarosa the SCOTUS (or do I?)
 
LiveFromKyoto said:
That article does explain a few things, yeah. I can see why he would come across as tone-deaf or indifferent/missing the point there.



But his problem doesn't seem to be corporate money in politics, just corporate money that's not his.



Between the State Secrets Act and militarization, lately Abe's got me feeling like Japan is a democracy in name only.
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Yeah that's the thing, a lot of the community thinks he's not addressing the issues, or at least not trying hard enough as he is with other issues and not really understanding the situation.

He needs to be able to fix that to get their vote, otherwise the ones who'll vote democrat will all pretty much go to clinton.
 
M52B28 said:
Well, that confirms it. American politics are a joke.

Question: Why would someone vote for him?

If anyone in this thread is voting for him and would like to give an answer, please, do so.
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I plan on voting for Trump or Paul. Why? Because not everybody at GAF is left-wing and I agree 100% with everything Trump is saying on immigration.
 
Damerman said:
So increasing hostilities between china and russia to "make america great again" is good for the US and the rest of the world?

What the fuck are u saying. Foreign relations and diplomacy is one of the key platforms that presidents run on.
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It's not good for the US therefore it's a negative to his position if you believe he's going to be antagonistic to those countries.

However Europe thinks Trump is an incompetent boob and doesn't like him isn't worth shit to the US voters. The US president is a world populist vote. In fact I'd say by in large people are stupid as they get in larger packs making herd decisions. His job is to the US first. If he does things that hurts the US then it's a negative for him. Just as the things he does for the US that helps them is a positive.

Just randomly. Let's say he has modest economic growth, runs a government surplus for a year is all bluster with Mexico, and progressive on social issues. He is blustery towards Putin and Kim Jung'Il but not willing to step past rhetoric. He works fine with the other world governments and is no net gain or loss. Now let's add to this that around the world the view of the US government drops 5-10% in approval. Should the voters in the US give a damn that the people of the world don't like Trump as much as Obama even though reign as President has been god for them at home and not caused much in the wa of issues worldwide? No they shouldn't it's irrelevant. Yes foreign policy is a job for a President. It doesn't mean he can or should do everything possible to make the world like the USA and bend his policies to do so.

The US President is not the world President. He can do things that Europe or Asia doesn't like and still be a good President. Hell if the worst of the backlash from the World is OMG I can't believe those stupid American's made Donald Trump their president its not even a net negative. No country should have popular with the citizens of the world very high up on their list of Qualities their leaders need. That doesn't mean there aren't reasonable limits here. I don't think anyone would want to elect a leader that is Putin levels of standoffish or aggressive let alone colonel Europe levels. But saying Europe/Asia/Russia doesn't like him and think American's are stupid for electing him is not a reason to denounce someone's candidacy. Like\Respect and will do business with are completely separate things. As long as they hold enough respect of the world leaders to be able to do what they need to do in foreign policy whether that countries citizens like or even respect them is irrelevant and not a valid factor to would they be a good leader for the US or any other country.
 
Damerman said:
So increasing hostilities between china and russia to "make america great again" is good for the US and the rest of the world?

What the fuck are u saying. Foreign relations and diplomacy is one of the key platforms that presidents run on.
Click to expand...

A lot of people look at Trump on TV and think he's going to just get in office and start pissing people off. And while I agree he has a very forward and no-fucks-given demeanor, you also have to understand that he didn't make his fortune by pissing everyone in the world he deals with off. He's an extremely good negotiator and extremely good at the art of persuasion. I mean, agree with his positions or not, I don't think this is a very contentious point. he just is. He's well known for it.

So if you think he's going to call up Putin and be like "Listen, bitch, we play by my rules now" then you're delusional. I trust Trump on foreign policy matters because actions speak louder than words, and his reputation precedes him when it comes to his ability to negotiate and persuade people. And you don't get what you want by pissing people off. If being an asshole were his only skill he wouldn't even be on TV right now at all.

Right now his goal is targeted - win the republican nomination. And so his current demeanor and tactics are customized for that goal. You will see a slight change in his words and actions if he wins the nomination, because at that point his goal will be to win the general election. And if he wins the general election, you will see a different Trump. And if you sit with him behind closed doors at the negotiating table, you will see yet another one. I'm not saying you will like any of these different faces of Trump. I'm just saying that if you think he's going to sit around insulting the leaders of Russia or China just because that's how you've seen him acting on TV then I think you're understimating what is probably the single best skill he has.
 
cpp_is_king said:
A lot of people look at Trump on TV and think he's going to just get in office and start pissing people off. And while I agree he has a very forward and no-fucks-given demeanor, you also have to understand that he didn't make his fortune by pissing everyone in the world he deals with off. He's an extremely good negotiator and extremely good at the art of persuasion. I mean, agree with his positions or not, I don't think this is a very contentious point. he just is. He's well known for it.

So if you think he's going to call up Putin and be like "Listen, bitch, we play by my rules now" then you're delusional. I trust Trump on foreign policy matters because actions speak louder than words, and his reputation precedes him when it comes to his ability to negotiate and persuade people. And you don't get what you want by pissing people off. If being an asshole were his only skill he wouldn't even be on TV right now at all.

Right now his goal is targeted - win the republican nomination. You will see a slight change in his words and actions if he wins the nomination, because at that point his goal will be to win the general election. And if he wins the general election, you will see a different Trump. And if you sit with him behind closed doors at the negotiating table, you will see yet another one.
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His charisma stat could be 99 but he's not going to get Mexico to pay for a wall or get China to do whatever it is he's saying he will do (does anyone know?). I would wager that no one on earth could.
 
cpp_is_king said:
A lot of people look at Trump on TV and think he's going to just get in office and start pissing people off. And while I agree he has a very forward and no-fucks-given demeanor, you also have to understand that he didn't make his fortune by pissing everyone in the world he deals with off. He's an extremely good negotiator and extremely good at the art of persuasion. I mean, agree with his positions or not, I don't think this is a very contentious point. he just is. He's well known for it.

So if you think he's going to call up Putin and be like "Listen, bitch, we play by my rules now" then you're delusional. I trust Trump on foreign policy matters because actions speak louder than words, and his reputation precedes him when it comes to his ability to negotiate and persuade people. And you don't get what you want by pissing people off. If being an asshole were his only skill he wouldn't even be on TV right now at all.

Right now his goal is targeted - win the republican nomination. You will see a slight change in his words and actions if he wins the nomination, because at that point his goal will be to win the general election. And if he wins the general election, you will see a different Trump. And if you sit with him behind closed doors at the negotiating table, you will see yet another one.
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Well said.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
His charisma stat could be 99 but he's not going to get Mexico to pay for a wall or get China to do whatever it is he's saying he will do (does anyone know?). I would wager that no one on earth could.
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And for the 100th time, he doesn't need Mexico to write a check for the wall. Since I'm tired of typing this out every time a new person shows up who hasnt' read his proposal, I'll just link it from now on so you can actually read it.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform
 
So to build the wall you're either going to have to spend a lot of money which will have to pass congress. To change the birthright citizenship you need congress and 3/4 of states. To deport 11 million people (that we know of) you basically need to institute martial law and stop every brown person in the street for their papers.He says the H-1B visa has to be curbed but then tweets silicon valley needs talented engineers.

It's basically 95% fantasy policy.
 
cpp_is_king said:
And for the 100th time, he doesn't need Mexico to write a check for the wall. Since I'm tired of typing this out every time a new person shows up who hasnt' read his proposal, I'll just link it from now on so you can actually read it.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform
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I've probably been following his actions more closely than you. I know exactly what he's been saying and I also know he's been double talking many of his proposals so it's hard to say what the true stance is. I also know how how unrealistic much of it is having followed how POLICY and LAW MAKING actually functions.

I think it's safe to say you have been drawn in by a cult of personality. I find it just as entertaining as you (if not more), but I also know the difference between reality and fantasy.
 
whatever us Canadians will just join up with the rest of North America and build a gigantic wall all around mainland USA

Alaska will be safe though since that is too much of a effort
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I've probably been following his actions more closely than you. I know exactly what he's been saying and I also know he's been double talking many of his proposals so it's hard to say what the true stance is. I also know how how unrealistic much of it is having followed how POLICY and LAW MAKING actually functions.
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If you know exactly what he's been saying, then it's a bit strange that you are trying to argue that it would be difficult to get Mexico to pay for the wall, since his proposal outlines exactly how he will get Mexico to pay for the wall, and it spells out a way in which it can be done without Mexico's consent.
 
NOTE: Please excuse the typos, cant really do a spell and grammar check at the moment but wanted to jump in the conversation.

cpp_is_king said:
A lot of people look at Trump on TV and think he's going to just get in office and start pissing people off. And while I agree he has a very forward and no-fucks-given demeanor, you also have to understand that he didn't make his fortune by pissing everyone in the world he deals with off. He's an extremely good negotiator and extremely good at the art of persuasion. I mean, agree with his positions or not, I don't think this is a very contentious point. he just is. He's well known for it.

So if you think he's going to call up Putin and be like "Listen, bitch, we play by my rules now" then you're delusional. I trust Trump on foreign policy matters because actions speak louder than words, and his reputation precedes him when it comes to his ability to negotiate and persuade people. And you don't get what you want by pissing people off. If being an asshole were his only skill he wouldn't even be on TV right now at all.

Right now his goal is targeted - win the republican nomination. And so his current demeanor and tactics are customized for that goal. You will see a slight change in his words and actions if he wins the nomination, because at that point his goal will be to win the general election. And if he wins the general election, you will see a different Trump. And if you sit with him behind closed doors at the negotiating table, you will see yet another one.
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My man! I see it laying out the same. Also the Trump critics simply make these statesmen ts that if you closely dont align to the what Trump has actually done in life. In relation to the strategies, negotiations, tactics, etc and how if those are applied to running this country he has the potential skills and background to honestly make some really good change.

As for people dismissing his plans for Mexico, Iraq, China...if you listen to what Trump actually says its not so much hes going assuming that things are going to play out exactly how he wants, but he will set his aim and then using strategy will get the best results he can with a certain outcome in mind. To many people think its all or nothing thinking, but if you actually study negotiating thats rarely the case or the goal. Hes also not going to be a huge dick to world leaders, you guys honestly underestimate the guys character and ability.

Trumps goal is America first, getting better deals for the American people in every area life. I think he would surprise a lot of people in how much he will do or try to do to help American citizens. The rest of the world is going to the backseat, and I'm cool with that...

Once again, I've always voted democrat but considered my self an indy. Outside of Trump I'd give the nod Sanders...As for Hillary, as of right now she does not have my vote. She seems shadey and someone trying to always put up a front. This relates to Trumps perceived honesty, you kind of see what you get with him.

For whatever psychological reason, the fact that it's more upfront with Trump makes him more trustworthy at least in perception. Its like instead of hiding it, he can just say it, and those that dont like it he can just say "oh well, fuck off". Hillary on the other hand will say "she understands" while under breath or in her head shes telling you to fuck off...politics as usual...

Edit: I also like Trumps "can do" attitude, I fucking hate when people say "lets be realistic" Its people who want to be "realistic" who dont create, achieve or change anything worthwhile because they let the ideas of whats possible be dictated by the constraints imposed from the minds of others. Sure he/you might fail, but fuck that, at least try and go out swinging...
 
The more you look at it, the more you realize Trump is basically the living representation of this country. He's stupid, racists, loud, hypocritical, and obnoxious. He's America personified.
 
Clinton: 52%
Trump: 43%


#TRUMP2016
#BUILDTHISWALL
#MEXICANRAPISTS2016



Sanders needs to keep surging BAD
 
cpp_is_king said:
If you know exactly what he's been saying, then it's a bit strange that you are trying to argue that it would be difficult to get Mexico to pay for the wall, since his proposal outlines exactly how he will get Mexico to pay for the wall, and it spells out a way in which it can be done without Mexico's consent.
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There's zero math analysis. First of all, how much does construction and maintenance of the wall cost? Will it be covered entirely by these tariffs (if they can ever be implemented). Secondly, the wall is now built, how long is Mexico paying for the other costs of the wall that will be permanent costs like the aforementioned maintenance and surveillance. How can you claim you will reduce a 19 trillion dollar deficit when you plan on basically upending the country to find 11 million illegal immigrants and institute mass deportation. Also, curbing legal immigration could be detrimental to the economy as many economists and studies have shown.

These are just a few holes in this single issue. I stayed up for an early morning interview he had on CNN where he stated Iran is supporting ISIS despite the fact that they are in combat against each other in Syria and Iraq. The more I listen to him, the less well versed he seems on these issues.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I've probably been following his actions more closely than you. I know exactly what he's been saying and I also know he's been double talking many of his proposals so it's hard to say what the true stance is. I also know how how unrealistic much of it is having followed how POLICY and LAW MAKING actually functions.

I think it's safe to say you have been drawn in by a cult of personality. I find it just as entertaining as you (if not more), but I also know the difference between reality and fantasy.
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I'm one of the realest people there is. And the reality is that no matter who gets elected (even Trump) absolutely nothing is going to happen, Congress's approval rating will drop to new all time lows, and anything that the winner actually campaigned for will be out the door in the first 6 months, and politics will still be a complete joke.

I'm voting for Trump not because I want to see his policies implemented (although admittedly, I agree with him on a couple of points). I'm voting for him to make a statement that America's government fucking sucks, and it's no longer a democracy that represents the people. You can have an issue that 95% of the country agrees on, and it still won't happen because of all the special interest groups.

So in a sense I'm a single-issue voter, and that's my single issue.
 
cpp_is_king said:
I'm one of the realest people there is. And the reality is that no matter who gets elected (even Trump) absolutely nothing is going to happen, Congress's approval rating will drop to new all time lows, and anything that the winner actually campaigned for will be out the door in the first 6 months, and politics will still be a complete joke.

I'm voting for Trump not because I want to see his policies implemented (although admittedly, I agree with him on a couple of points). I'm voting for him to make a statement that America's government fucking sucks, and it's no longer a democracy that represents the people. You can have an issue that 95% of the country agrees on, and it still won't happen because of all the special interest groups.

So in a sense I'm a single-issue voter, and that's my single issue.
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The problem is there's real issues at stake. The Supreme Court would not have allowed marriage equality if Clinton and Obama had not been President to nominate more progressive nominees to keep the balance tilted towards even. Plenty of organizations that help a lot of people depend on funding that could have been slashed by some other hypothetical President. We could have ground troops in Iraq and Syria.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
The problem is there's real issues at stake. The Supreme Court would not have allowed marriage equality if Clinton and Obama had not been President to nominate more progressive nominees to keep the balance tilted towards even. Plenty of organizations that help a lot of people depend on funding that could have been slashed by some other hypothetical President. We could have ground troops in Iraq and Syria.
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There's always real issues at stake. Will there ever be a time that there aren't real issues at stake? Now's as good a time as any especially considering that no matter who gets elected, 90% of what they talk about is never going to happen anyway because of our dysfunctional congress.
 
cpp_is_king said:
I'm one of the realest people there is. And the reality is that no matter who gets elected (even Trump) absolutely nothing is going to happen, Congress's approval rating will drop to new all time lows, and anything that the winner actually campaigned for will be out the door in the first 6 months, and politics will still be a complete joke.

I'm voting for Trump not because I want to see his policies implemented (although admittedly, I agree with him on a couple of points). I'm voting for him to make a statement that America's government fucking sucks, and it's no longer a democracy that represents the people. You can have an issue that 95% of the country agrees on, and it still won't happen because of all the special interest groups.

So in a sense I'm a single-issue voter, and that's my single issue.
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You are somewhat right but there have been some huge changes in the last few years. Government can and probably works better than most of us give it for. Yeah, there are major shit that is broken like lobbyist and the rich running almost everything through their money and power.
 
rokkerkory said:
You are somewhat right but there have been some huge changes in the last few years. Government can and probably works better than most of us give it for. Yeah, there are major shit that is broken like lobbyist and the rich running almost everything through their money and power.
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Yes, and Trump is literally the only one who doesn't give a fuck about anyone else's money. I agree with some of Trump's positions and some of the Democrats' positions, so issues are not a deciding factor for me. It's about the system.
 
I hope all of you that think Hillary's go this thing locked actually go out and vote to ensure that she has this thing locked.
 
cpp_is_king said:
Yes, and Trump is literally the only one who doesn't give a fuck about anyone else's money. It's not even about the issues for me anymore (I agree with some of Trump's positions and some of the Democrats' positions, so issues are not a deciding factor for me), it's about the system.
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I commend your stance as I also agree that system just plain sucks for some things. I am glad more progressive social issues were passed recently however. They are a game changer in moving this country forward.

I like Trump's swag but some of the BS he spouts is just plain bad as a potential leader of the USA and that type of mentality would definitely not fly as the president in trying to get stuff done. So which is the lesser of the worst option? I am honestly not sure.
 
If by "competitive" they mean "managed to attract the attention of the poorly educated, xenophobic white class", then I agree.

Still looking forward to listen to him backtracking on getting the hispanic vote, or flopping aimlessly trying to make a compelling argument.

Also, I finally see how he is a "great negotiator": he either tell you exactly what you want to hear, and then sells you your own shoes, or he tries to bully you, and if those two fail, he "insults" you, by making some remark on your looks.

No one with more than two neurons in their skull can possibly believe this moron.
 
As a someone not from the US, this is all very funny, while a bit worrisome.

It's amazing looking at people supporting that douchebag and saying he would be a better option that Clinton.

This man is nothing but a joke.
 
Charles Foster Kane said:
As a someone not from the US, this is all very funny, while a bit worrisome.

It's amazing looking at people supporting that douchebag and saying he would be a better option that Clinton.

This man is nothing but a joke.
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I wonder how many people are white cishet guys though :v

I legit can't understand anyone who deviates from that demographic to be the one saying such a thing.
 
cpp_is_king said:
I'm one of the realest people there is. And the reality is that no matter who gets elected (even Trump) absolutely nothing is going to happen, Congress's approval rating will drop to new all time lows, and anything that the winner actually campaigned for will be out the door in the first 6 months, and politics will still be a complete joke.

I'm voting for Trump not because I want to see his policies implemented (although admittedly, I agree with him on a couple of points). I'm voting for him to make a statement that America's government fucking sucks, and it's no longer a democracy that represents the people. You can have an issue that 95% of the country agrees on, and it still won't happen because of all the special interest groups.

So in a sense I'm a single-issue voter, and that's my single issue.
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That's not true at all dude. Elections do matter and things DO happen. It's really easy to say, that nothing gets done because it doesn't usually affect people immediately, but guaranteed it will.

When a president is elected, you're not just voting for one guy at the top, he's going to assign positions in a lot of different facets of government. He's going to nominate judges for the SCOTUS, he's going to shape policy with other countries, etc.

It's not immediate change, which is why people are so dismissive of general elections, but look at our current economic situation and it goes all the way back to Reagan. Look at Nixon's policies and Vietnam. Look at the two Bush presidents and their obscene obsession with Iraq and the current ISIS situation now. You may think things don't change in the short term, but who sits in that office affects the whole country for decades after.
 
Meier said:
I don't even feel like she is campaigning. The Republicans are frankly the only ones in the news. Dems gotta get this shit sorted out quickly,
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Campaigning is for the peasants. She has that shit on lockdown, no need for it

(Being sarcastic here)
 
It's nothing new for a candidate to say that the government isn't working. That's what every candidate does, for the most part. Every Republican says the same thing, Trump just says it with a different 'tone' and a narrative of being so fabulously wealthy that he doesn't need donors.

The idea that it's as simple as a donor 'buying' influence is silly. It's the network, lobbies, the think tanks, etc. behind the donors that influence. Hell, if that's a single issue that a single issue voter is choosing a candidate for and that candidate is Trump, I'd argue that Sanders is a more logical choice.
 
Wolfgunblood Garopa said:
It's nothing new for a candidate to say that the government isn't working. That's what every candidate does, for the most part. Every Republican says the same thing, Trump just says it with a different 'tone' and a narrative of being so fabulously wealthy that he doesn't need donors.

The idea that it's as simple as a donor 'buying' influence is silly. It's the network, lobbies, the think tanks, etc. behind the donors that influence. Hell, if that's a single issue that a single issue voter is choosing a candidate for and that candidate is Trump, I'd argue that Sanders is a more logical choice.
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Yes, but Sanders doesn't have the cult of personality. That's what this is really about. Some people respond to a guy who just screams at everything and acts "confident".
 
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